I Went on a Package Trip for Lonely Millennials. It Was Exhausting.

March 21, 2023 6:10 AM

On traveling to Morocco with a group-travel company that promised to build “meaningful friendships” among its youngish clientele. Caity Weaver for the NYT / Archive link.
posted by ellieBOA (77 comments total)

Just a quick note, because I want to come back to this article later. My first impression was, "oh, what a nice idea, maybe it's just what I need." Then: "if Caity Weaver wrote about it, it is some level of a nightmare." Good to see her byline again --
posted by Countess Elena at 6:11 AM on March 21, 2023 [11 favorites]

This is gently hilarious and I would hate every second of a trip like this.
posted by emjaybee at 6:39 AM on March 21, 2023 [12 favorites]

I started it and read the description of a tour company that focuses on helping people in their 30s and 40s make friends and thought, "oh, that sounds nice!"

Then I read the rest of it and realized that my personality would be 100 percent, completely incompatible with this kind of trip. I'm glad they all had fun, but it would not be for me.
posted by Dip Flash at 6:42 AM on March 21, 2023 [9 favorites]

> "youngish" ... "people in their 30s and 40s"

This is the uniquely millennial delusion.
posted by jordemort at 6:43 AM on March 21, 2023 [72 favorites]

I also wondered, reading the article, how different her experience would have been if the tour group itself included more of a gender mix, instead of being 13 women being led around by what sounded like entirely male guides, which seemed to generate its own specific dynamic in the piece. (Example description: "The dinner tour was led by a young man named Abdul, who, like all the men who led any of the tours, was young, handsome and dressed as if he could, at a moment’s notice, be called to ride a motorcycle to the offices of a men’s fashion magazine for an emergency photo shoot.")
posted by Dip Flash at 6:50 AM on March 21, 2023 [3 favorites]

This was a fun read, I've always wondered about these group trips which have always seemed half-appealing to me as someone who has a) traveled alone more often than not and sort of getting bored of it and b) is secretly type-A and likes to have things planned out including scheduled free time. I think the issue with these trips is that per the article they look like they pack wayyy too much stuff in. Though perhaps that's how they engineer a scenario where everyone ends up bonding through a sort of camaraderie via total exhaustion. Like adult sleepaway camp.
posted by windbox at 6:51 AM on March 21, 2023 [7 favorites]

This is the uniquely millennial delusion.

Yes. Having your life plans arrested because of.....everything including but not limited to 2008 and the shitty decades which followed will do that to a generation.

You can't grow old if you if you're not passing traditional life events, right?
posted by RonButNotStupid at 6:53 AM on March 21, 2023 [36 favorites]

Except for the early morning part I feel like I would love this maybe? I'm not a Type A by any stretch of anyone's imagination... I love vacations where someone else sets the itinerary, not because my daily life involves Big Important Decisions but because I'm irretrievably lazy and have no confidence in my planning skills.

> "youngish" ... "people in their 30s and 40s"

This is the uniquely millennial delusion

LOL yes, because people older than us think they're youngish in their fucking 70s, and we kind of assume we'll just be dead by then. Tell me you didn't have a 68 year old stepdad who bought a massive Harley Davidson and tried to pick up 22 year olds without telling me.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 7:08 AM on March 21, 2023 [26 favorites]

do you have any idea how much avocado toast you have to not eat to afford a trip like this
posted by 7segment at 7:12 AM on March 21, 2023 [65 favorites]

I am hearing the voice of the sadly departed Rip Torn as Zed in the first Men in Black movie saying, "intergalactic kegger."
posted by seanmpuckett at 7:16 AM on March 21, 2023 [9 favorites]

So, you would need to be socially "on" from before dawn until late at night, every day? With a bunch of people with "natural leader" delusions? No wonder Wine Day happened. I'm surprised there wasn't bloodshed.
posted by SunSnork at 7:17 AM on March 21, 2023 [20 favorites]

> Ismail informed me, as gently as possible, that “dessert in Morocco can be just fruit.” I began musing excitedly about the various fat and sweetness enhancements to which fruit can be subjected, transforming it into dessert. Ismail held my gaze. With the delicate assertiveness of one determined to form a connection with a jumper poised on the side of a bridge, he clarified: “Just fruit.”

I very rarely stop reading a piece midway because I love a quote. Just fruit.
posted by Pitachu at 7:21 AM on March 21, 2023 [35 favorites]

There were so many lovely little observations in the piece, but this one leapt out at me: "the kind of control freaks for whom the delicious little thrill derived from living through an incident of well-executed planning is entirely distinct from, and in addition to, their enjoyment of the activity itself."

I would have felt that way, honestly. It sounds like a fun field trip, though my idea of a perfect vacation is me, all by myself, in a strange land, for a week, finding a coffee shop that will serve me and going back to that coffee shop every day for the rest of the week.
posted by Peach at 7:24 AM on March 21, 2023 [24 favorites]

To be quite honest-- as somebody who self-describes myself as Type-A all the time-- this piece isn't making me want to go on a Flash Pack trip, but rather steal and adapt their itineraries.
posted by Pitachu at 7:25 AM on March 21, 2023 [6 favorites]

I very rarely stop reading a piece midway because I love a quote. Just fruit.

I've lived in Morocco several different times for a total of about three years. It is NEVER just fruit. I love the hell out of Moroccans, but holy cow do they have a collective sweet tooth, and now it's Ramadan, which makes it a hundred times worse. Why yes, my body absolutely needs a marzipan-filled pastry the size of my head at 10:30pm.
posted by outgrown_hobnail at 7:26 AM on March 21, 2023 [27 favorites]

I'm with Peach, just add in a big ball of hashish and a shop that sells pastries the size of my head filled with marzipan and my tour planning is done. Week, month, whatever.
posted by Meatbomb at 7:28 AM on March 21, 2023 [7 favorites]

Makes a lot more sense than something like a beach vacation. How many times can you go to a dang beach? Like, after two days of beach, what about beach have you not experienced yet? And don’t get me started on cruises. A big hotel you can never leave.

I’d take the type-a Moroccan whirlwind over either of those any day of the week, and I’d probably get along with anyone who went on this trip.
posted by panama joe at 7:44 AM on March 21, 2023 [13 favorites]

This trip sounds hellish.

And what do they do if one of their travellers can't keep up with the whirlwind itinerary because they get a migraine or come down with a gastro virus?
posted by chariot pulled by cassowaries at 7:49 AM on March 21, 2023 [4 favorites]

I would totally go on this tour. (other than liking to do the organization and spending less money)

I find it fascinating/interesting that it was all women. I backpacked around South America solo years ago and was a person who tried to find Party hostels only--the majority of other solo travelers were women, which shocked many people. ("It's so dangerous"!!)
posted by sandmanwv at 7:51 AM on March 21, 2023 [1 favorite]

I grew up with a Type A parent who was extremely successful and driven, and treated a 'vacation*' like a field marshal. As a result, while I have inherited some of those Type A tendencies, I'm more like, Type A-negative. Yes, I have spreadsheets and bullet journal pages with train timetables and packing lists and possible restaurants to check out in whichever city we'll be in that day, but I do not plan for more than one Big Thing to do in a day, and I also count "Checking Out of the Hotel in City A then Checking Into the Inn at Village B" as a Big Thing. Each trip page has a long list of "Nice To Do If We Can" ideas but more than half of these never get done, and that's ok. It's just to save time if we have an afternoon free and rather than go into decision paralysis, we can just pick from a list that we thought about beforehand, or that thing can just be spend the afternoon in a cafe writing postcards.

Which is all to say, I might be into this if the itineraries were half as dense? The most valuable thing that I learned about myself with vacation was that while a certain part of my brain does deeply, genuinely love the planning part; my heart actually doesn't want to do every one of those things. Better to do one thing relaxed and totally present for it, than try to cram in three things and feel like you have to rush from one to the other.

The other thing I'll say is that while I generally don't do package tours because I like to do planning, I am totally happy to outsource logistics to a tour company if possible. My wife and I went on a five day cross country pub crawl across the south of England, and we used a tour company to ferry our luggage from pub to pub, and A+ would absolutely do that again.

* - a coworker introduced me to the excursion taxonomy where if you're spending your leisure time in aimless idleness, you're on a vacation, but if you're spending the time with an active itinerary, you're on a trip. I generally prefer planning trips over vacations, but that model was useful to remind me to have vacation time in my trips.
posted by bl1nk at 7:52 AM on March 21, 2023 [33 favorites]

As 1) not a Type-A person and b) a Boomer, I found the article as exhausting as I'm sure she found the trip itself.
posted by briank at 8:05 AM on March 21, 2023 [1 favorite]

I’m clearly in the minority here but overall it sounds like a specific type of trip for a specific type of person and the company fully delivered on it? It’s a really well written piece but I feel like I’m missing something that everyone else gets.

To bl1nk’s point- there‘s traveling, seeing a new place and then many things it has to offer, a vacation which is for relaxing and is often of the beach or hot in in the woods variety and trips which are to accomplish something, like visiting family in another location (or perhaps bring your kid to Disneyland?). Sure it sounds like Flashpck isn’t for you if you’re looking for a vacation rather than to travel. But that’s ok- how much help do you need to plan a hotel by the beach and google for a few restaurants?

I’ve traveled extensively, often times solo, and lived on 3 different continents and I wouldn’t go to Morocco on my own. Every single female traveler I’ve spoken with describes how it’s a fantastic country and the level of harassment they experienced ruined the entire trip. Morocco doesn’t seem like a place where I can enjoyably wander around and then find myself in a cafe that welcomes women (though those with more knowledge of Morocco please correct me!). The price tag hurts, but I’d love to go on one of these flash pack type trips. And if someone is too tired/hurt/unwell to do an activity it sounds like the guide leader would just like to be informed and could probably figure out a later taxi to help you rejoin the group when you feel better?

(Pitachu i often use travel companies itineraries as a starting point for my own solo adventures! I highly recommend it)
posted by raccoon409 at 8:07 AM on March 21, 2023 [15 favorites]

Yeah, I would totally take a trip like this. It's perfect for a geographical area where I don't feel comfortable to solo travel, when I want a break from being a planner, and when I have extra energy to go on an adventure (and be on all day). This isn't a vacation, it's an adventure trip!
posted by lucy.jakobs at 8:13 AM on March 21, 2023 [4 favorites]

I’ve traveled extensively, often times solo, and lived on 3 different continents and I wouldn’t go to Morocco on my own. Every single female traveler I’ve spoken with describes how it’s a fantastic country and the level of harassment they experienced ruined the entire trip. Morocco doesn’t seem like a place where I can enjoyably wander around and then find myself in a cafe that welcomes women (though those with more knowledge of Morocco please correct me!).

Even setting aside safety concerns, one thing I really worry about in planning grand-scale trips to unfamiliar places is the idea of spending all that time and money and then somehow ending up mostly in my hotel, watching TV, because the plans I tried to make in a language I don't speak and a city I don't know fell through, or were shitty. A situation like this ensures that at the very least, you spend your trip doing stuff, and there's someone to swoop in and prevent bad outcomes.

In a city I know well, I'm happy to just sort of bop around with lots of downtime, or pick a single bar that I enjoy and come back to throughout, etc. But like, right now I'm contemplating a trip to Tokyo, and--I will go to Tokyo exactly one time in my life. I will never get that chance again! I super don't want to waste it. I would love some sort of service that could make sure I didn't.
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 8:16 AM on March 21, 2023 [24 favorites]

I long to take a vacation, but because time is precious and travel is expensive, I'm always taking trips.
posted by RonButNotStupid at 8:20 AM on March 21, 2023 [8 favorites]

I feel like the real split here is actually "I might be interested in a group vacation"/"nothing could make me." I fall in the first camp, but if I (through a highly unlikely set of circumstances, I guess) found myself forced into a trip with a group of strangers, I would prefer it to be stuffed with activities. Otherwise you're just...waiting to start doing stuff....with strangers?

I wonder how the tour company feels about this article. Weaver isn't actually attacking the service, but she's also not exactly praising it; meanwhile they've just earned massive product placement in America's biggest newspaper, and it's funny enough that people are having fun sharing it widely.
posted by grandiloquiet at 8:35 AM on March 21, 2023 [3 favorites]

Ian McKellen on Extras except it's me reading this post going "nope...nope...nope... CAITY WEAVER! YOU SHALL NOT SKIP!"
posted by babelfish at 8:37 AM on March 21, 2023

I have no idea what "type" personality I have, but after reading the article, I'm probably not Type A. But I loved, loved, loved researching and planning our trips. I felt like I was already a little bit ON the trip when I was doing the planning. Learning, researching and finding interesting things is exactly what I like to do for fun.

Anyway, my wife and I have traveled extensively. We've been to 17 different countries, the furthest being Turkey. We haven't traveled that much recently (Covid and my career adjustment which means less money) but back when we did travel, I'd say a huge part of the appeal to me was learning about where we were going, then researching where to stay, what interesting things are nearby, museums to visit, the cuisine, outdoor activities, indoor activities. And then scheduling and arranging all this. I never, ever would have packed that many "experiences" into one day of travel/vacation. But I enjoyed figuring out what we would do which day, how the trains worked, the subway, etc. Only a couple times ever in 30 years did we ever go to a place and JUST relax. And even then we'd get restless and end up going on a massive walk or something else unplanned.

We didn't always strictly adhere to our plans. But when on a trip we would usually have a couple must-do/see things (Exhibit of artist XYZ at Museum ABC where we can also see other cool stuff, and there's interesting food options sorta near by, and then we can head back towards the hotel, etc... that might be one day)

I cannot imagine wanting to do so many major activities each day as mentioned in the article— even if I was efficiently whisked around to do them. Of course, back in our old traveling days, each day would wind down around 4pm with the first drink, which led to more and more and another restaurant or bar, more drinks, a tiny Euro club with more drinks. Waking up hungover or half-hungover. Repeat. But I quit drinking 4.5 years ago. Haven't been on a major trip since quitting. So I will have considerably more time when start traveling again.

I'm rambling, but my getting sober (which really, REALLY needed to happen) makes me a little fearful of what an adventure trip along the lines of what we used to do will be like NOW. I think I will need more structure.

These trips sound like fun for the right person. I kept getting the feeling I was supposed to be laughing at the article (and the people mentioned in the article), but I was basically smiling at the fact that these folks were doing all this cool stuff in just a few days.

This type of trip is NOT for me. But a cruise is also NOT for me. Nor is an all-inclusive resort. Everyone is different. I think this is an interesting idea—if maybe a little too controlling. Some of the language about the two who went off skinny dipping was a bit concerning. FFS, let people wander away a bit, as long as they don't get lost and screw the next day up!
posted by SoberHighland at 8:57 AM on March 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

I feel like the real split here is actually "I might be interested in a group vacation"/"nothing could make me." I fall in the first camp, but if I (through a highly unlikely set of circumstances, I guess) found myself forced into a trip with a group of strangers, I would prefer it to be stuffed with activities. Otherwise you're just...waiting to start doing stuff....with strangers?

The model that I've liked for planning group trips with friends or extended family (now that my parents' Type-A instincts have mellowed out) is meal-centric. Or:

"let's decide where we'll eat, then figure out what to do to kill time until we're hungry again."

Basically, aim for everyone to have breakfast together and different folks lay out what they want to do. Some folks may opt for a museum, others for some shopping, some want to stay in the hotel spa. Others are welcome to tag along with whatever. We all collectively agree on a potential lunch spot (though some folks can opt out of that too), and then we have lunch together and then share afternoon plans (hikes, matinees, cafes, naps, etc.), and folks can decide on any new pairings. We then meet for dinner and share what we did, then talk about evening plans (movies, clubbing, cocktails, etc.). Rinse and repeat.

And to be honest, if there was a tour company that, say, handled hotel reservations, luggage transfers, reservations at good restaurants; but just gave everyone a Choose Your Own Adventure set of activities for a given day, then I'd be very interested in that setup.
posted by bl1nk at 9:10 AM on March 21, 2023 [23 favorites]

I don't like planning trips/vacations, which is why I rarely ever do any unless I'm going with someone else who will do that shit. People have suggested group tour trips with strangers like this, but good god, do I not want to. I've done day trips on a bus driving around Big Island of Hawaii and that was bad enough, thanks. My mom went on a three week trip to Ireland with her high school religious bigot friend (don't ask, my mom has higher tolerance for these people than I do and even she's actually lost said tolerance in the 2020's) and I was all NO WAY IN HELL CAN I BE STUCK WITH THAT LADY FOR THREE WEEKS AND NOT SAY SOMETHING. I was around that lady for three days and managed not to say something, but I will stumble into it in three weeks. So I'll never go to Ireland, but at least I wasn't stuck with bigot lady, or other jerks on the tour I can't leave.

What bl1nk said about a tour company that makes the arrangements but lets me pick what to do, for sure.
posted by jenfullmoon at 9:16 AM on March 21, 2023 [1 favorite]

This trip sounds lovely. Like Girl Scout camp for middle aged rich ladies. I think I would probably fuck up the group vibe but I'd probably have a good time doing it, which was basically my m.o. as a Girl Scout too.
posted by potrzebie at 9:16 AM on March 21, 2023 [10 favorites]

they have developed “decision fatigue” from the litany of correct decisions they have been forced to make while scaling new professional heights

I’ve been wondering this about subscription boxes. I missed the moment when the cultural norm of the kind of people I think like them switched from "must pick my own stuff" to "explicitly hire a curator". (Or are they actually supported by tax-advantaged corporate gifting? )
posted by clew at 9:21 AM on March 21, 2023

Chris Rock voice: "I love 30-40 year olds, but I HATE MILLENNIALS"
posted by Reyturner at 9:21 AM on March 21, 2023 [4 favorites]

Even setting aside safety concerns, one thing I really worry about in planning grand-scale trips to unfamiliar places is the idea of spending all that time and money and then somehow ending up mostly in my hotel, watching TV, because the plans I tried to make in a language I don't speak and a city I don't know fell through, or were shitty.

Eh, that’s not usually an issue. Unless you’re going someplace super obscure, if there’s a Thing to see, chances are there are other people who also want to see the Thing, as well as a small industry dedicated to making sure you get to see the Thing. Worry not — unless you have the misfortune to go there on a holiday (or outside visiting hours), you will see the Thing.
posted by panama joe at 9:35 AM on March 21, 2023 [1 favorite]

I’ve been wondering this about subscription boxes

Can't speak for anyone else, but I subscribe to a couple of monthly boxes because I want my life to contain some nice surprises even when it isn't my birthday. Without them, the only surprises I get are the bad kind, like water leaks, and fallen roof tiles.
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 9:38 AM on March 21, 2023 [16 favorites]

It's a uniquely millennial piece because it's all about what the trip says about the traveler's personality. The granddaddy of these pieces is "A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again," which is way too much about the other travelers and the weirdness of the concept itself to work today.

This also has the tone of weird self-hate for good things ("I have too many friends," "I'm too successful in my career") but that might just be the NYT house style.
posted by kingdead at 9:45 AM on March 21, 2023 [8 favorites]

Hypothesis test! Does the Flashpak trip sound appealing, anyone who likes subscription boxes? Definitely guaranteed pleasant experiences. Can’t be total surprise or the planning devotees couldn’t optimize their wardrobes.
posted by clew at 9:46 AM on March 21, 2023 [1 favorite]

Does anyone have a phone number for Sheldon Adelson? Let's do Birthright for people in their 30s and 40s.
posted by grobstein at 9:49 AM on March 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

Eh, that’s not usually an issue. Unless you’re going someplace super obscure, if there’s a Thing to see, chances are there are other people who also want to see the Thing

I mean, it has been the case on more than one trip I've taken, but admittedly the ones I'm thinking of particularly were pre-smartphones -- a lot easier to end up slightly off the beaten path with just no great idea of where to go back then, and a lot easier to make a plan and arrive to find "oh but that was canceled/closed on weekdays/sorry you needed to buy tickets a year ago."
posted by We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese at 10:04 AM on March 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

I just turned 55. 30s and 40s IS YOUNG.
I would kill to look and feel the way I did at 40. you kids have no idea what's coming.
posted by supermedusa at 10:28 AM on March 21, 2023 [19 favorites]

There were 13 of us total. Each day of the trip, I would spend a little time privately trying to map the biblical significance of this number neatly onto our group, frustrated that no clear stand-in for Christ ever emerged... Ultimately, the best I could come up with was that if Jesus had surrounded himself with 12 such team-oriented, schedule-conscious youngish (kind of) women, he might still be alive today.

This is some entertaining writing. Also, I would hate this trip except the moments when I loved it.
posted by I_Love_Bananas at 10:40 AM on March 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

Does the Flashpak trip sound appealing, anyone who likes subscription boxes?

Ha, definitely not for me. I prefer my holidays as unstructured as possible, and I'm not a group person either.

I choose destinations where I know there are plenty of things I'll want to see, but then decide what I'm actually going to do on an ad-hoc basis. I'd probably enjoy a lot of the things that were on their itinerary, but I get a stifling conveyor-belt feeling even from half-day coach trips, and "spend all your waking hours in a group of a dozen people for multiple very intense days in a row" is definitely outside my comfort zone.
posted by ManyLeggedCreature at 10:44 AM on March 21, 2023 [4 favorites]

And to be honest, if there was a tour company that, say, handled hotel reservations, luggage transfers, reservations at good restaurants; but just gave everyone a Choose Your Own Adventure set of activities for a given day, then I'd be very interested in that setup.
posted by bl1nk at 11:10 AM on March 21

This sounds IDEAL and I would LOVE it.
posted by joannemerriam at 11:23 AM on March 21, 2023 [3 favorites]

And to be honest, if there was a tour company that, say, handled hotel reservations, luggage transfers, reservations at good restaurants; but just gave everyone a Choose Your Own Adventure set of activities for a given day, then I'd be very interested in that setup.

That's what a cruise is. Or an all-inclusive resort.
posted by The_Vegetables at 11:39 AM on March 21, 2023 [5 favorites]

I'd nope out in the first fifteen minutes. I don't even like traveling with close, personal friends because of the whole 'agreeing on what to do thing', and absolutely refuse any kind of guided anything. Loathe all-inclusive resorts, as well.
posted by signal at 12:10 PM on March 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

I read the post title as "I Went on a Package Trip for Lonely Millionaires. It Was Exhausting," and I was so confused about why the comments weren't even more irritated.

I know 40 is supposed to be "still so young!" but I'm 40 and I've had four separate orthopedists for distinct issues since my early 30s so... I think my young days may be over.
posted by obfuscation at 12:18 PM on March 21, 2023 [3 favorites]

I would like a service that basically puts together a subset of the guidebook that's just the things I would actually like to do. I'll figure it out from there. I would pay for this service, more than I would pay for an actual guidebook. Bonus points if they know what Interesting Things are going on in town during the window I happen to be there, for my definition of Interesting.

(Perhaps this already exists? If so, what is it called?)
posted by madcaptenor at 12:32 PM on March 21, 2023 [1 favorite]

I feel like this thread is about an hour away from inventing the concept of a travel agent.
posted by Think_Long at 12:54 PM on March 21, 2023 [68 favorites]

What you want is a travel concierge. This is a fairly upscale service but if you're dropping 5 figures on an Excursion then another 4 figures in fees (always choose a fee-based travel concierge) is basic insurance that you'll have a fabulous time.
posted by seanmpuckett at 12:57 PM on March 21, 2023 [4 favorites]

@Think_Long imagine the mash-up of that with the LLM blenders that are all the rage these days. Made up museums, fictional opening hours, restaurants and menus that are figments of the blender process, with photos of things that are almost, but not completely, entirely unlike tea. Visa processes and entry requirements... there is such scope for travel woes in misinformation about all those.

I wonder how much of that would be necessary for the cultural zeitgeist to turn against LLMs.
posted by Shunra at 1:01 PM on March 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

I have been lucky enough to befriend an event planner who arranges all our trips while I tag along. I highly recommend.
posted by emjaybee at 1:18 PM on March 21, 2023 [1 favorite]

And to be honest, if there was a tour company that, say, handled hotel reservations, luggage transfers, reservations at good restaurants; but just gave everyone a Choose Your Own Adventure set of activities for a given day, then I'd be very interested in that setup.

That's what a cruise is. Or an all-inclusive resort.

Oh, sorry, I think you missed what I said about "good restaurants"
posted by bl1nk at 1:27 PM on March 21, 2023 [7 favorites]

This trip sounded really fun to me. A little outside my price range but I’m down for the concept. I’m a 30-something woman who has traveled to a Morocco (with another female friend) and we had a good time but I wouldn’t have minded someone else handling the logistics. I speak French and had to rely on that a bit — would’ve been harder for anyone with a greater language barrier. We’re pretty hardened travelers so the street harassment didn’t phase us but I can absolutely imagine it being intimidating for someone else.

The author is a talented writer and there are many funny parts but there’s this subtext of, “I have so many friends and will subtly dig at women who don’t” that I didn’t really enjoy about this. Or like shaming people for not having a group of friends who’d be able and interested in traveling to Morocco with them, as if that constitutes some kinda personal failure. It’s presenting a guided tour as a super bizarre and pitiable choice and … idk it doesn’t seem that odd to me? Especially for women who’d otherwise be traveling solo. Comments section of the article also has a ton of moralizing about how someone’s tourist vacation is more “authentic” than someone else’s tourist vacation because they wandered around alone and chatted with a local in a bar. I’ve done a ton of solo backpacking but let’s be real.
posted by Emily's Fist at 1:28 PM on March 21, 2023 [15 favorites]

I will say that the one time I went on a cruise with a travel agent (and her employees....I'm not sure how my mom, her coworker and I got looped into this!), it was super convenient.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:29 PM on March 21, 2023

I feel like this thread is about an hour away from inventing the concept of a travel agent.

Well, yeah, but it's data-driven and AI-powered and has a cool-looking web site.

(Seriously, millennials probably killed travel agents and now we're going to resurrect them.)
posted by madcaptenor at 1:31 PM on March 21, 2023 [3 favorites]

also, tbh, I think we're, like, 18 months away from being able to go to GPT-5 or GPT-8 or whatever and say, "I want to spend two weeks in Croatia hanging out in pretty medieval villages and have two days in a nice but not crowded beach on the Adriatic. I have this budget, and I'd like to travel in this time. Give me an itinerary and if I like it, book everything with this credit card."
posted by bl1nk at 1:31 PM on March 21, 2023 [3 favorites]

To each their own, but years decades ago when I spent a few months traveling through Australia almost all of my least-favourite experiences were during the two group tours I signed up for. For various reasons it wasn't the best period of my life, and one of those reasons was because I was lonely, but if I learned nothing else during those trips it was that it is possible to feel much lonelier in a group than when you're by yourself.

Years later my wife and I spent a big chunk of a European trip traveling with another couple, friends of ours, and while it wasn't a *disaster* I do wish we hadn't been compelled by politeness to agree to it.
posted by The Card Cheat at 1:32 PM on March 21, 2023 [1 favorite]

The author is a talented writer and there are many funny parts but there’s this subtext of, “I have so many friends and will subtly dig at women who don’t” that I didn’t really enjoy about this. Or like shaming people for not having a group of friends who’d be able and interested in traveling to Morocco with them, as if that constitutes some kinda personal failure.

I didn't like that either. Tbh I got the sense that, as someone said upthread, the trip was basically exactly as advertised in all its pros and cons, and the author struggled to find an Angle to make it into a Piece.
posted by dusty potato at 1:47 PM on March 21, 2023 [3 favorites]

The description of the itinerary's seems way too busy for my liking. I know myself and if a sight is worth seeing then it's probably worth spending half a day at, or at least around, which means there's time for 1-2 big things in a day with some wandering in between.
posted by any portmanteau in a storm at 1:55 PM on March 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

Pitch: a trip for young people to Morocco to get to know one another and create lasting friendships. One of your friends will be framed for the theft of a diamond, and you will take the blame and flee your country. On joining the tour you will be shouted at by a sadistic sergeant and made to march. A fort will be attacked. Can you do the right thing?
posted by Fiasco da Gama at 2:38 PM on March 21, 2023 [10 favorites]

To each their own, but this sounds fun. Expensive, but fun.

No, it's not a sit-on-the-beach-and-relax vacation. If you want that, you can... go sit on a beach. Personally, I hate beaches. I hate the heat, I hate the sand, I hate suntan lotion, I hate the sand that gets stuck to the suntan lotion, I hate the way your skin is sticky after you get out of the salt water, ugh. The list of things I'd rather do than sit in dirt and get sunburned is extremely long. The only reason I go on beach vacations is because my friends and partner genuinely enjoy it, and I (genuinely, truly) enjoy their enjoyment secondhand. But it's like watching someone get into a kink that you are just way not into. You guys are going to go sit on the beach today? That's awsome! No I will not be joining, thanks, but I'll be here when you get done (and take a fucking shower, preferably outside).

But jokes aside, leisure travel is sort of like sex, in that there's no wrong way to do it, as long as you're enjoying yourself and not making life shitty for someone else, despite the hordes of people who will tell you all the ways you're Doing It Wrong. Ignore them. Do your thing!

And for a non-trivial segment of people, there is very much a cheap thrill in going on a well-planned and well-executed trip that you didn't have to arrange, and perhaps most importantly, doesn't make you wish you had in retrospect. (You know, the slow horror of realization that you've stumbled into a hot mess thrown together by a person whom you increasingly doubt has ever traveled further than their mailbox, because how do you not know when the restaurants close? Why did we walk here then? Do you not know how to Google things? What the fuck— I mean, uh, just... speaking hypothetically.)

If you've ever done any non-trivial travel planning, it's actually pretty cool to watch someone who knows their shit execute a well-crafted plan. I would not take a bunch of Americans—who paid a lot for a package tour—around Morocco for anything less than fuck-you-Elon-Musk money. Not because it's distasteful, but because it sounds really hard (and grindingly emotionally laborious). But I wouldn't want to cook in a Michelin-starred restaurant kitchen, either. I'm glad that some people do, so I can occasionally pay them to do their thing and enjoy the fruits of their personality flaw dedication to their craft.

And I don't blame people for going on an experience that promises to help them make friends, either. Making friends as an adult is hard, yo. Go read AskMe basically any day of the week and you'll find people trying to figure out how to meet and make friends with other people. I bet one of these trips compares favorably as a solution to that issue, if you're the kind of person who can roll with and enjoy a certain amount (maybe a large amount) of compelled socialization. But more than a few people do enjoy that sort of thing, and/or are willing to figure out how to make the best of it, in order to make new friends in middle age. (Let's be honest here: us "millenials" are moving into statistical middle age. Redefine "youth" as long as you want, but the icy hand of death doesn't give a shit.) With the pandemic curtailing many other opportunities for meeting people during the last few years, and lots of people moving around, I can see stuff like this being pretty popular.

But, like the beach, or an orgy, it's probably not something you should go to if you don't like beaches or orgies.
posted by Kadin2048 at 2:45 PM on March 21, 2023 [5 favorites]

>>And to be honest, if there was a tour company that, say, handled hotel reservations, luggage transfers, reservations at good restaurants; but just gave everyone a Choose Your Own Adventure set of activities for a given day, then I'd be very interested in that setup.

>That's what a cruise is. Or an all-inclusive resort.

I've never been on a cruise but I have had to stay at some all-inclusives before, and to me that experience is basically the opposite (in a bad way) of what was described. While I recognize that many, many people love cruises and all-inclusives, that's really a different (insular) approach to not having to worry about logistics. It would be lovely to have the details (like luggage and reservations) handled by others, while not being tied to a group schedule like in the article, or boxed into the limited frame of a cruise or resort.
posted by Dip Flash at 3:39 PM on March 21, 2023 [4 favorites]

I feel like I have to defend Morocco here. A friend and I traveled there about 10 years ago as single women in our 20s and were not bothered by a single person as we traveled around, including the couple times we crammed in with three or four other passengers into the Mercedes taxis that travel between towns. We did have a male friend with us for parts of it, who spoke Moroccan Arabic and set us up in the otherwise all-male coffee shop. But the rest was just us and it was totally fine. Now by the end we were quite tired of each other which gave me lasting fears about group travel.
posted by sepviva at 4:19 PM on March 21, 2023 [2 favorites]

I thought the article was obnoxious and hacky. Weaver went with a narrative about all the friendless Tracy Flicks, and I was left wondering why she doesn’t ask the NYT to send her someplace she likes. It’s easy to clown on other people’s earnest fun (I do it all the time), but throwing love is harder.
posted by betweenthebars at 4:49 PM on March 21, 2023 [8 favorites]

Why the "millennial" label? This sort of package tour has been around since the 1960s at least ("If it's Tuesday, this must be Belgium").

I mean, the writer clearly doesn't like active vacations (but again, if she's a staff writer on assignment, is it actually a vacation?), and there's nothing wrong with that, but why call people who do "natural freaks" and "demented overachievers"?

The condescension in this piece is just amped up to 11. It hits all the usual tropes: Type A career women need to make friends! Orientalist tour guide whom the writer, but no one else, vibes with! Wine Day! Spontaneity threatens to ruin the trip! Awkward hugs on the last day! Promises to be BFF!

But kudos to Caity Weaver for getting 5000 words out of a story so old it qualifies for AARP.
posted by basalganglia at 4:51 PM on March 21, 2023 [6 favorites]

This article was such a great read, thank you!! Hilarious!! But no real desserts? Tragic.
posted by smorgasbord at 6:45 PM on March 21, 2023 [3 favorites]

In the aughts, I discovered a food allergy: oranges. I got one of those stab-you-with-a-hundred-needles tests and it was confirmed that I reacted to oranges as intensely as to pure histamine. So, imagine my sadness when I visited Morocco in 2008 with a group of friends and discovered that desserts were often just oranges. After passing on the first few desserts, I decided, what the hell, I'd just deal with the hives and/or take a bunch of benadryl. But it turned out my allergy had dissipated in the interim!

So here's to just fruits!

[Theory: I used to drink copious amounts of orange juice whenever I was sick, and at some point my immune system got confused between the orange proteins and the infection, but then chilled out about it after a bit.]
posted by aneel at 9:26 PM on March 21, 2023 [4 favorites]

I am so glad you don't have your orange allergy anymore!! I was in suspense for a second there!
posted by grobstein at 9:57 PM on March 21, 2023 [5 favorites]

They could market it as neurodiversity awareness training, so that allistic people get to experience the sort of exhaustion that the rest of us suffer as a matter of course.
posted by Cardinal Fang at 6:29 AM on March 22, 2023 [2 favorites]

This sounds like absolute hell. If I travel to a place, it is to experience that place - not to be subject to weird social rules and expectations by my own fellow travelers. I honestly just … cannot get my mind around that notion. A tour group sounds OK - I don’t mind the notion of pre-planned activities - but all the other stuff? Why?
posted by haptic_avenger at 6:33 AM on March 22, 2023

I went on a small group adventure travel tour to South America, and although it wasn't specifically market an experience building for mid career women it attracted some of that demographic. It was an awesome trip and I would recommend it to anyone

Our trip included:
3 solo professional women in their 30's, 2 women in the mid 40's traveling together
1 solo 19year old woman (rich parents) who was between other tours catering to young people
one young married couple, two retired couples, one solo retired guy.
Our guide was a youngish Belgian

The diversity of personalities and life experiences probably helped the group.
I think 13 is the perfect size for such as group as you can all fit into a large van.
There were some days that were dedicated group activities ( some major hikes in Patagonia) but a fair amount of choose your own adventure on many days. There was absolutely no way I could have booked so much into a such a short period of time my myself. It also would have been impossible to get timely bus reservations between certain cities without the tour company. if I was a backpacker with endless time being stuck in a city a few extra days waiting for the next bus wouldn't have been a big dealer, but for those who had to get back to work (we had a doctor and lawyer in our group) it was great to have that taken care of.
posted by CostcoCultist at 6:46 AM on March 22, 2023 [2 favorites]

For me I think it would feel exhausting and claustrophobic to have all day, every day be a highly scripted group exercise. But I would probably love a trip where every few days there was a full-day guided group thing like this, interspersed with two or three days of completely unscripted personal time to explore and recharge.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:10 AM on March 22, 2023 [3 favorites]

I've never been on a cruise but I have had to stay at some all-inclusives before, and to me that experience is basically the opposite (in a bad way) of what was described

Every cruise and all-inclusive I've ever been on has a giant list of local restaurants and activities that all you have to do is look at a listing of times, pick one, make a phone call, and everything else about the activity (off site from the all-inclusive or off-boat) is covered (including transport) and booked to the room. Restaurants go from low-brow to the best in the cities.

That's why I say what is being asked for in the thread is exactly like both. You can also just go into any tourist town once you get off the boat or leave the resort, and schedule it yourself for a few bucks in savings.
posted by The_Vegetables at 7:46 AM on March 22, 2023 [1 favorite]

Caity Weaver is a national treasure. Here's her incomparable TGI Friday's piece and her exploration of world cuisine as reflected in Epcot Theme Park restaurants. (Start from the bottom with that one and enjoy.)

She has such a good comic sense.
posted by Gadarene at 8:16 AM on March 22, 2023 [2 favorites]

Chris Rock voice: "I love 30-40 year olds, but I HATE MILLENNIALS"

A few years back I gave a stranger guy on the street directions to a gym he needed to get to. I didn't know where it was so I used Google Maps on my phone and then pointed out where he should go. He said thanks and then muttered something under his breath about millennials always with their phones.

I'm 90% certain I was a decade older than him.
posted by srboisvert at 11:24 PM on March 22, 2023 [2 favorites]

The most valuable thing that I learned about myself with vacation was that while a certain part of my brain does deeply, genuinely love the planning part; my heart actually doesn't want to do every one of those things.

A few days into a trip to London, I was feeling ill at ease and cranky - and realized that I'd overbooked myself, and all that day's plans felt like I was checking off a list and doing homework. I decided that foe the afternoon I would toss out the itinerary and do what my gut told me - and ended up taking three lazy trips back and forth in the Regent Canal ferry, stopping for tea at a riverside spot at one point and scoring a free cupcake. It was much better.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 12:51 PM on March 23, 2023 [5 favorites]

The most valuable thing that I learned about myself with vacation was that while a certain part of my brain does deeply, genuinely love the planning part; my heart actually doesn't want to do every one of those things.

There is actually research on this and the conclusion was that to maximize the enjoyment of a holiday you should plan it from a long way out because the anticipation is actually more effective at positive mood induction than the actual vacation.
posted by srboisvert at 4:49 AM on March 25, 2023