September 10, 2002

4:55 PM

Florida just might screw it up again, with problems voting state-wide, with concentrations in the southern portion of the state. With the fame of the Reno vote, along with the controversial gay rights issue on the ballot, can they afford to screw this up? And if they do, what next? More lawsuits?
posted by benjh (30 comments total)

Janet Reno has already said the word "lawsuit", plus the whole issue of should you / can you really vote on whether someone should be free from discrimination or not.
posted by benjh at 4:58 PM on September 10, 2002

Regardless of the issues on the ballot or who is running no state can afford to mess up voting.
posted by Bag Man at 5:02 PM on September 10, 2002

Am I right in thinking that Katherine Harris may not have any votes counted for her, because she messed up the paperwork? Oh, please let this be true.
posted by riviera at 5:31 PM on September 10, 2002

I'm sorry but my wife and I voted today with absolutely no mishaps. The touch screens make it so damn easy that a 1st grader would have no problems. Maybe the problem, as noted in the story, has to do with the high degree of incompetence of not only the poll workers but the whole stinking population of S. Florida. I'm sorry but this time around it's got nothing to do with machines, ballots or politicians. Yeesh!
posted by photoslob at 5:39 PM on September 10, 2002

I live in the Pinellas/Hillsborough county area and things have run pretty smoothly here also.

But:

"At Precinct 224 in Carol City, a predominantly black precinct, potential voters complained that once again they were about to be disenfranchised. The trouble: At 7 a.m., none of the 14 machines worked...

'This is a lot of bull,' said Marie Love-Jackson. ``These machines should have been tested a day before. Why weren't they?'"

Seems like certain counties are having some major problems. I agree with Marie: Why weren't the machines tested the day before? Then again, I don't vote so I could care less.
posted by poopy at 6:16 PM on September 10, 2002

I don't get this, as i'm a limey, but can someone explain this...
This election is a primary, right? And they are Party elections, aren't they? So why is the state involved at all?
posted by dash_slot- at 6:45 PM on September 10, 2002

Dash-Slot:

Simple, the Parties in question are "State" parties, not national, so Florida republican 1 vs Florida Republican 2
Florida Democrat 1 vs Florida Democrat 2, etc...
to see who faces off in the local (State) election in November.

Culling of the candidates as it were, trust Me I would much rather had a standard all comers run off for every office, but some say it would overwhealm the ballot (so be it I say)
posted by Elim at 7:02 PM on September 10, 2002

dash_slot - some offices, like judgeships, are available to be voted on no matter which party affiliation you are. In the event that one of these judges doesn't get a majority then there's a runoff election that takes place on General Election Day in November.
posted by stevis at 7:06 PM on September 10, 2002

dash_slot:

Party primary elections--including runoff elections-- have traditionally been held at taxpayers' expense in the USA. In Florida--where I live--there once was such a single party domination that if you did not vote in the Democratic primary, you had no real vote. Not until the 1980s did the Republican party have a sufficient presence in Florida to do away with the dominant role of the Democratic primary in candidate selection.

BTW, the vast majority of election day poll workers in Florida are volunteers, many elderly. A robust election process here depends entirely on the performance of the election volunteers: poor performance in this regard is probably a major factor in the ongoing Miami/Fort Lauderdale foul up.

It is--sad to relate--depressing to live in a state which has become an international laughing stock for the quality of its democratic processes.
posted by rdone at 7:13 PM on September 10, 2002

Voting went smoothly here in St. Johns County, but the news is filled with reports of polling places that opened late or closed at 7 p.m. in spite of Gov. Bush's decision to keep them open until 9 p.m. The incompetence of our state government in elections is awe-inspiring.
posted by rcade at 7:17 PM on September 10, 2002

are any results in yet? cnn and msnbc aren't reporting on it....
posted by amberglow at 7:21 PM on September 10, 2002

oops...never mind.......but nothing on the gay rights thing....
posted by amberglow at 7:23 PM on September 10, 2002

photoslob is right, by the way. I think I'm the only MeFi'er in South Florida so I'll comment on what I saw, which is that it was a ridiculously easy and clear process. I even had the pollworkers take my photo with the new machines they were so cool-looking. Dorky, sure, but my point is that a child could use them they were so well designed.

However, it's the gerrymandering that caused this year's screw-ups because the Republican-controlled State Legislature couldn't make up their minds quickly about how to carve up the new voting districts. No one really knew where to vote until Saturday and the elections officials had to madly scramble to get workers in all these areas. One guy I work with had a polling place with technology issues, but he says it's because they chose a place with inadequet electrical sockets for all the machines.
posted by stevis at 7:24 PM on September 10, 2002

Liss finally was able to get one of the five machines up and running at about 10 a.m., after turning away dozens of angry voters.

Turning away voters...you know that is going to look good in the lawsuit.

After years of reading Carl Hiaasen's column I'm not surprised at any incident linking the words "incompetent" and 'Florida".
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 7:27 PM on September 10, 2002

Gov. Jeb Bush summarily extended polling hours to 9 p.m., two hours after polls were supposed to close. The 7 p.m. closing time is a statutory law, right there in black and white -- but for some reason, Bush ignored election law. Wonder if that's happened before?

Also, Bush has made it known that he would prefer to run against Janet Reno than Bill McBride, and most people assume that a larger turnout would benefit Reno. Gosh, you don't think that had anything to do with Bush's decision to override state law and extend polling hours, do you?

I held my nose and voted for McBride. I prefer Reno but believe McBride has a better chance of winning in November. No matter who gets the Democratic nomination, I'm putting in some volunteer hours on the nominee's behalf to boot Bush, and I encourage other Florida Mefites to do the same.
posted by Holden at 7:30 PM on September 10, 2002

Also, Bush has made it known that he would prefer to run against Janet Reno than Bill McBride, and most people assume that a larger turnout would benefit Reno. Gosh, you don't think that had anything to do with Bush's decision to override state law and extend polling hours, do you?


So let me see... if Bush keeps the 7 p.m. closing time, he would be disenfranchising voters who might not have been able to vote due to problems at polling stations, but if he extends voting hours to 9 p.m. he's doing so purely for political gain?
posted by gyc at 8:45 PM on September 10, 2002

stevis: I think I'm the only MeFi'er in South Florida so I'll comment on what I saw, which is that it was a ridiculously easy and clear process. I even had the pollworkers take my photo with the new machines they were so cool-looking

Well hello, Whitey! Wow, what are the odds the new, cool-looking voting machines in your district ran smoothly! Tell me: was the poll tax high this year? Did you have any problems with the literacy test? Oh, wait...

Now, I'm not saying you voted for Bush (doesn't matter anyway), or that I think you're a bad guy (I don't, don't even know you) but I am saying that there. is. zero. question. that Florida's election officials and folks like Bush and Harris among others deliberately prevented, through a number of illegal and wholly unlawful methods, tens of thousands of those po' niggers from exercising their right to vote in 2000. The last election was stolen, and nothing has been changed in two years to prevent it from happening again. Hell, touch-screen computerized systems seem like they are just a huge debacle waiting to happen the first time word of a computer virus designed to mis-calculate the votes gets around...

gyc: So let me see... if Bush keeps the 7 p.m. closing time, he would be disenfranchising voters who might not have been able to vote due to problems at polling stations, but if he extends voting hours to 9 p.m. he's doing so purely for political gain?

Um yes, you've pretty much nailed it. In 2000, those poll hours weren't extended, were they? It'd be swell to believe Jeb Bush was just trying to make the voting go smoothly, but he's got a history, here: the fact remains that he and his family and Florida Republicans stole an election, plain as day, by completely subverting democratic rights leading up to election day 2000 (and well after). This is NOT mere speculation; it's well documented and substantiated...
posted by hincandenza at 9:33 PM on September 10, 2002

Let me get this straight, who runs the local elections? This example in Broward speaks volumes about the ongoing problems in Florida:

BROWARD COUNTY - Dozens of poll workers didn't show up. Polls opened late in at least six cities. A Justice Department observer took names of people who left one precinct without voting. Democrats were given Republican ballots, which have no primary in the governor's race. Elderly voters waited more than three hours to vote in suburban Miramar. A Hollywood Democrat left without voting after a two-hour wait when new touchscreen machines weren't running. Less than a full complement of machines was working in many precincts. County Commission Chairwoman Lori Parrish, a critic of elections supervisor Miriam Oliphant, called Secretary of State Jim Smith asking him Tuesday morning to call out the National Guard. Smith called it "an overreaction" but later asked the governor for a two-hour extension in voting hours.

Oliphant and Parrish are BOTH democrats.
posted by pablofiesta at 9:50 PM on September 10, 2002

As a card carying member of the liberal elite (snicker) I'll completely agree the election was stolen and blah, blah, blah but damnit folks - I went out my door, walked 150 yards, dropped the trash off at the dumpster, checked the mail and...oh yeah, voted. Not a big freakin deal! I say we saw the state off just south of Sarasota and give it a good push towards the Caribbean. It's S. Florida that gives the whole big fat sweaty state a bad name.

(on second thought we should probably dump Sarasota too)
posted by photoslob at 10:08 PM on September 10, 2002

hincandenza: I would be happier believing the partisan line that the Bushies "stole" the 2000 election if there weren't other factors that all by themselves helped what's-his-name lose. Like elderly Jewish ladies voting for Pitchfork Pat. Or presidential candidates writing off their home state. Or that the local county officials proved that they had the power to ignore the purges than came down from on high, by actually doing so. Or that it was only barely plausible that they knew in advance that it would all come down to the Sunshine State. It just ain't that simple.
posted by dhartung at 10:09 PM on September 10, 2002

Damn. It looks like Janet Reno lost. No more Dance Parties.
posted by stevis at 10:35 PM on September 10, 2002

dhartung: Or that the local county officials proved that they had the power to ignore the purges than came down from on high, by actually doing so.

So the fact that some county officials refused illegal and planned purges of tens of thousands of innocent black, hispanic, and poor voters who were denied their right to vote means the Bushies didn't both attempt to and succeed at stealing Florida??? Given how one sided the stories are of Gore losing votes to criminal actions or simple confusion, one must assume that a) Gore probably walked away with a landslide only to be denied the state, and b) the plot to disenfranchise the voters was meant to pad a lead comfortably, "just in case", and that they didn't expect Florida to be so close that such attention was paid to it. Had the "real" vote been closer, that disenfranchisement would have probably made a Bush win in Florida convincing enough the whole post-election debacle would never have happened. As it was, Bush & Family needed 60,000 or so voters turned away at the polls just to pull out a Scalia-mandated 527 vote lead.

I am fucking pissed about this, and I'm not going to let it go.
posted by hincandenza at 11:10 PM on September 10, 2002

I spent the day at a polling place south of Miami (Kendall, for the locals), working to keep the human rights ordinance intact. Our location opened at 7:10 due to some technical troubles, but the rest of the day was incident-free.

There was an elections department troubleshooter making the rounds throughout the day, and we had several conversations about the new system. Her take on it was that the equipment itself didn't have many problems, but the volunteers in the polling places were inadequately trained. On Monday they were given a three hour lecture on the new equipment and procedures, but there was no hands-on training at all. Consequently in many precincts they were forgetting small things, like flipping the power switch to "on."

Just FYI, there were a lot of voters at this location who cast their ballots between 7-9pm. I think the turn-out numbers would be much higher statewide if people were given a bigger window of opportunity to vote. Perhaps the state will learn something from this?

Nah, who am I kidding? This is still Florida...
posted by mkhall at 3:10 AM on September 11, 2002

gyc: So let me see... if Bush keeps the 7 p.m. closing time, he would be disenfranchising voters who might not have been able to vote due to problems at polling stations, but if he extends voting hours to 9 p.m. he's doing so purely for political gain?

Thank you, gyc. I couldn't have put it more succinctly. Please remember that Jeb Bush and his administration did all they could in 2002 to yield the vote result they wanted, even if it meant purging noncriminal blacks from the voter rolls, preventing Haitian-born American citizens from voting by having cops kick them out of polling places for speaking Creole instead of English, and not counting all the votes -- all in violation of election law. Yes, I expect that Bush and his gang are trying to engineer the desired result again, regardless of election law.
posted by Holden at 3:37 AM on September 11, 2002

Well, looks like discrimination in Southern Florida has taken a hit.
posted by benjh at 5:05 AM on September 11, 2002

Screw up one election, it is gross incompetence.

Screw up two elections, it is corruption.

It really is that simple.

And I *TOTALLY* agree with hincandenza above, I think Florida had been meant to be a comfort zone. I think they had no idea the scrutiny they were about to receive. They would have been more discrete if they had.

In my heart of hearts, I believe the Supreme Court basically ended the issue to save us from ourselves, so to speak.

The choice the Supreme Court had was to put the wrong man in office, or to basically declare the Republican party and the entire state government of Florida fraudulent and criminal. They would have had to throw at the very least Jeb and Harris and possibly Baker in a federal prison.

Kathy Harris should be in jail, not the senate.

I also hope Jeb will do the right thing and put his first-offender daughter caught with crack cocaine in prison for the mandatory sentence.

The chances of that? About the same as getting a fair election in Florida.

Why don't one of you Bush cheerleaders go to Florida and get caught with a few crack rocks and see if you get rehab.

GW Bush was not duly elected. End of story. I will never get over it. However, I would scream just as loudly if Gore had won by jerryrigging Tennessee.

Regardless of which side of the fence you are on, you HAVE to believe in free, accurate elections. And state and federal governments should spare no expense to insure this happens.

It is a travesty. An absolute travesty.
posted by Ynoxas at 5:39 AM on September 11, 2002

As it was, Bush & Family needed 60,000 or so voters turned away at the polls just to pull out a Scalia-mandated 527 vote lead.

If you're going to be bitter, use this factoid: Bush lost Florida by 502 votes, according to the most comprehensive recount attempt that I have seen, a non-partisan effort to account for valid votes by the Gore- and Bush-hating Unknown News.

As bitter as I am about the extraconstitutional election of 2000, we have a chance to send Jeb Bush and Republican Congress members packing in November. It seems more productive to focus on that opportunity, rather than continuing to fight a battle that we lost two years ago.
posted by rcade at 6:41 AM on September 11, 2002

Oh look, it is 11:35p.m. here in Tampa... still no winner! Big shocker! Reno screaming lawsuit will only hurt Florida and hinder McBride from running a solid campaign against Jeb. We only have one month folks!
posted by bmxGirl at 8:38 AM on September 11, 2002

And indeed, it was a fiasco. The NYT has details and a chilling quote from Jeb Bush: "What is it with Democrats having a hard time voting? I don't know."

Translation: "I don't know, but I can tell you one thing--no Democrat will get a fair vote in Florida as long as I am Governor. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!"
posted by Raya at 10:05 AM on September 11, 2002

I'll just post here some things I said in the other thread:

1) The parties don't run the primaries. Back in the day, that was true, but nowadays the party has less and less control over the candidates and the voting process.

2) The county election supervisors run their own show. They actually don't HAVE to do anything the Secretary of States says. So not only are their gross differences between voting equipment from county to county, but also policy (e.g., whether or not to follow guildlines set up by the SOS; whether or not to recount when ordered by the SOS's office) and education of poll workers.

3) Election Supervisors are partisan positions. Most of them are incompetent as hell, but I'm sure they have good intentions (somewhere deep inside).

4) I don't think the problems in South Florida were on the part of the voters -- equipment wasn't up and running, workers weren't there, and Dems were being given Republican ballots.
posted by jennak at 10:00 AM on September 12, 2002