Is Jesse ever happy?
September 24, 2002 7:31 AM Subscribe
Is Jesse ever happy? You'd think he'd be happy with the #1 movie in the country for 2 weeks straight being a movie that is cast totally with black people. But nope, he's not. He's upset because there was a goof on Rosa Parks and MLK Jr. Wasn't this just a movie?
Well, on paper the MLK joke does not look that funny to me either.
It's not hard to believe his family's offended
This may very well be a JJ tired publicity stunt, but what can you expect, Jackson has a kind of right/duty to complain in a situation like this, it's basically his job, no?
I say, don't cut the movie. There's freedom of bad taste, after all
posted by matteo at 7:43 AM on September 24, 2002
It's not hard to believe his family's offended
This may very well be a JJ tired publicity stunt, but what can you expect, Jackson has a kind of right/duty to complain in a situation like this, it's basically his job, no?
I say, don't cut the movie. There's freedom of bad taste, after all
posted by matteo at 7:43 AM on September 24, 2002
Jesse's like the mafia. He ultimately couldn't be satisfied shaking down the white establishment ... and had to come after his own folks.
Of course, he picks his targets badly. Wall Street has been his main whipping boy, despite the fact that virtually every Wall Street firm has an excellent record promoting black executives, and there with American Express and Merrill Lynch having a black CEO and CEO-designate, respectively, Wall Street is head and shoulders above any other industry in terms of black leadership.
I hope Ice Cube really tells him off.
posted by MattD at 7:47 AM on September 24, 2002
Of course, he picks his targets badly. Wall Street has been his main whipping boy, despite the fact that virtually every Wall Street firm has an excellent record promoting black executives, and there with American Express and Merrill Lynch having a black CEO and CEO-designate, respectively, Wall Street is head and shoulders above any other industry in terms of black leadership.
I hope Ice Cube really tells him off.
posted by MattD at 7:47 AM on September 24, 2002
"However, Jackson said he had spoken to King's widow, Coretta Scott King, and son, Martin Luther King III, as well as the Parks family and other civil rights leaders and that they "feel highly insulted" by the jokes."
I would like to hear directly from them, please.
"[The character in the movie] also directs an expletive at Jackson."
Hmmmmm.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 7:50 AM on September 24, 2002
I would like to hear directly from them, please.
"[The character in the movie] also directs an expletive at Jackson."
Hmmmmm.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 7:50 AM on September 24, 2002
The worse kind of racism is to assert that black people can't think for themselves, and therefore can't make a joke at the expense of or criticize a black leader.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 7:52 AM on September 24, 2002
posted by monju_bosatsu at 7:52 AM on September 24, 2002
This is pathetic. There are few things I hate more than heroes being completely robbed of their humanity and reality, and held up as these perfect, flawless icons, incapable of errors.
It's freaking FICTION. It's a freaking MOVIE. It's a freaking COMEDY. You cannot possibly tell me that the most important problem currently facing the black race is a joke about MLK's sex life in a movie.
Grr. This displeases me greatly.
posted by textureslut at 7:53 AM on September 24, 2002
It's freaking FICTION. It's a freaking MOVIE. It's a freaking COMEDY. You cannot possibly tell me that the most important problem currently facing the black race is a joke about MLK's sex life in a movie.
Grr. This displeases me greatly.
posted by textureslut at 7:53 AM on September 24, 2002
Granted I haven't seen this movie - but the comments about Parks and MLK don't sound offensive to me. (MLK WAS a womanizer, for one thing.) And at any rate it was only one character saying such things - everyone else disagreed with him. What is Jesse Jackson's vision for our society? Is it one where black leaders must be presented and seen as saints and one in which there's no room for dissent and discussion of issues? Because that sounds about as problematic as the discrimination and inequities we're trying to eliminate.
posted by orange swan at 7:57 AM on September 24, 2002
posted by orange swan at 7:57 AM on September 24, 2002
from the article: The producers, Bob Teitel and George Tillman, told The Associated Press on Monday that they had apologized to Jackson on behalf of everyone involved with the film.
Who is Jesse Jackson to think that he is owed any kind of apology for some jokes made in a movie, even a small joke directed at him? And who are the spineless producers who did the apologizing, when they should have told the good Rev. to kindly kiss their asses? Did Jesse Jackson recieve said apology on behalf of MLK and Rosa Parks? Did he recieve it on behalf of all black people? This, I want to know.
posted by contessa at 8:10 AM on September 24, 2002
Who is Jesse Jackson to think that he is owed any kind of apology for some jokes made in a movie, even a small joke directed at him? And who are the spineless producers who did the apologizing, when they should have told the good Rev. to kindly kiss their asses? Did Jesse Jackson recieve said apology on behalf of MLK and Rosa Parks? Did he recieve it on behalf of all black people? This, I want to know.
posted by contessa at 8:10 AM on September 24, 2002
Haven't seen the movie, but a co-worker did over the weekend. She was offended by the Indian and African charicature characters (big thick accents, moronic foreigner stereotypes), but didn't mention anything about the MLK stuff.
Cedric the Entertainer didn't seem to have a problem saying the lines, right? Shouldn't Jackson be mad at him? Or the writer?
posted by gramcracker at 8:12 AM on September 24, 2002
Cedric the Entertainer didn't seem to have a problem saying the lines, right? Shouldn't Jackson be mad at him? Or the writer?
posted by gramcracker at 8:12 AM on September 24, 2002
Has anybody seen this movie? I wonder if these scenes are actually as offensive to anyone else as they are to Jackson.
"I think if they want to protest movies, there are a lot of other movies to protest that do a lot more damage to the black community," Lee said. "There are strong images and more egregious affronts to (blacks)."
That's an understatement if I ever heard one. It is a bit of a puzzle why Jackson would criticize this particular affront to the black community and not, say, this one. Seriously, there are so many offensive shows and movies out there, it seems somewhat childish to pick on the ONE that is doing well...
posted by hoborg at 8:12 AM on September 24, 2002
"I think if they want to protest movies, there are a lot of other movies to protest that do a lot more damage to the black community," Lee said. "There are strong images and more egregious affronts to (blacks)."
That's an understatement if I ever heard one. It is a bit of a puzzle why Jackson would criticize this particular affront to the black community and not, say, this one. Seriously, there are so many offensive shows and movies out there, it seems somewhat childish to pick on the ONE that is doing well...
posted by hoborg at 8:12 AM on September 24, 2002
[newbie]Oops. Meant to say has anybody here seen this movie. Clearly someone has seen it. [/newbie]
posted by hoborg at 8:14 AM on September 24, 2002
posted by hoborg at 8:14 AM on September 24, 2002
Quick, somebody hide the Blazing Saddles DVD from Jesse!
posted by bondcliff at 8:16 AM on September 24, 2002
posted by bondcliff at 8:16 AM on September 24, 2002
hoborg: Seriously, there are so many offensive shows and movies out there, it seems somewhat childish to pick on the ONE that is doing well...
Ah but hoborg, he wouldn't get any publicity for criticizing a movie nobody's ever heard of ;)
posted by contessa at 8:20 AM on September 24, 2002
Ah but hoborg, he wouldn't get any publicity for criticizing a movie nobody's ever heard of ;)
posted by contessa at 8:20 AM on September 24, 2002
You can't blame Jesse for wanting some good decent family entertainment that he can take his mistress and bastard child to see.
posted by ColdChef at 8:32 AM on September 24, 2002
posted by ColdChef at 8:32 AM on September 24, 2002
Reavealed! THE FORMULA:
1. Jesse Jackson whines and makes a fuss
2. Unable to talk to any other representatives, the press assumes that All Black People Are Upset
3. Media hullabaloo is created
4. Vast majority of black people roll eyes, wonder when America and the press will learn we don't have a group mind
Stir, rinse, repeat.
(Also: I thought the movie was one of the funniest I've seen in a long time. People spend too much time being g-d "offended")
posted by owillis at 8:43 AM on September 24, 2002
1. Jesse Jackson whines and makes a fuss
2. Unable to talk to any other representatives, the press assumes that All Black People Are Upset
3. Media hullabaloo is created
4. Vast majority of black people roll eyes, wonder when America and the press will learn we don't have a group mind
Stir, rinse, repeat.
(Also: I thought the movie was one of the funniest I've seen in a long time. People spend too much time being g-d "offended")
posted by owillis at 8:43 AM on September 24, 2002
Wait a minute ... I haven't seen this movie, but the description of the scene in question made it sound like one character was making these comments and was hooted down by everyone else. This is a common device.
If I make a movie about the evils of communism, I'm not gonna have two guys sitting on a bench going: "Gee, communism sucks, doesn't it, Hal?" I'm going to have a character sympathetic to communism and let the other characters make fun of him. Does that make my movie pro-communist?
PS. That was Cold, Chef ... hehhhehehe-he
posted by RavinDave at 8:46 AM on September 24, 2002
If I make a movie about the evils of communism, I'm not gonna have two guys sitting on a bench going: "Gee, communism sucks, doesn't it, Hal?" I'm going to have a character sympathetic to communism and let the other characters make fun of him. Does that make my movie pro-communist?
PS. That was Cold, Chef ... hehhhehehe-he
posted by RavinDave at 8:46 AM on September 24, 2002
criticize a black leader.
I wonder how many black people actually consider him their "leader"? This is like saying that David Duke is a prominent leader in the white community.
Coldchef: You couldn't be more right.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 8:49 AM on September 24, 2002
I wonder how many black people actually consider him their "leader"? This is like saying that David Duke is a prominent leader in the white community.
Coldchef: You couldn't be more right.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 8:49 AM on September 24, 2002
I've seen the movie, the point of the scenes is that there are a lot of taboos in the Black community, sacred cows that are never mocked. This is basically the essence of comedy, and in the theatre I was in, those scenes had some of the biggest laughs from the mostly-black audience. Jesse is out of touch.
posted by cell divide at 8:50 AM on September 24, 2002
posted by cell divide at 8:50 AM on September 24, 2002
Where is Jesse when African American women are blatantly and egregiously stereotyped/dehumanized/sexualized on BET or MTV? So, Cedric can't make a joke about MLK Jr.'s sexuality, but it is okay to let Nelly order women to strip naked for the enjoyment of millions of teenagers across the nation. Don't knock Jesse, but feel free to display women in next to nothing, mounted on a Escalade. Don't dis Rosa, who has made her contribution to history, but it is just fine to wedge the women of hip hop/R&B into tightly constricted roles of tomboy sexual seductresses. I wish Mary J. Blige would just kick his ass already.
posted by oflinkey at 8:51 AM on September 24, 2002
posted by oflinkey at 8:51 AM on September 24, 2002
Wall Street has been his main whipping boy, despite the fact that virtually every Wall Street firm has an excellent record promoting black executives...
Really? And here I thought the financial services industry was lilly-white until civil rights activists like Jackson held their feet to the fire and forced them to improve their hiring practices. I must have been confused about that. And besides, I'm sure that all this misbehavior, if it did once occur, is well in the past. It's not like companies like Citibank are buying the nation's worst predatory lender because they think it's a great business. It's not like they're paying $200 million dollar fines to atone for red-lining and discriminatory lending. It's not like American Express still engages in forms of employment discrimination. Right?
posted by spotmeter at 8:54 AM on September 24, 2002
Really? And here I thought the financial services industry was lilly-white until civil rights activists like Jackson held their feet to the fire and forced them to improve their hiring practices. I must have been confused about that. And besides, I'm sure that all this misbehavior, if it did once occur, is well in the past. It's not like companies like Citibank are buying the nation's worst predatory lender because they think it's a great business. It's not like they're paying $200 million dollar fines to atone for red-lining and discriminatory lending. It's not like American Express still engages in forms of employment discrimination. Right?
posted by spotmeter at 8:54 AM on September 24, 2002
He accused the filmmakers of "trying to turn tragedy into comedy."
Tragically, that's funny.
posted by pedantic at 8:58 AM on September 24, 2002
Tragically, that's funny.
posted by pedantic at 8:58 AM on September 24, 2002
Once again Jackson heroically hurls himself between the givers and the receiver of publicity.
posted by Shadowkeeper at 9:05 AM on September 24, 2002
posted by Shadowkeeper at 9:05 AM on September 24, 2002
I think Jesse Jackson is just upset that no one has tried to assassinate him.
[The producers wish to apologize to Jesse Jackson for the offensive joke that witchstone just made]
Really, Jesse has been all over the map in recent years. As oflinkey said, there are far greater issues to get up in arms about.
As far as the Kings being offended, what do you want to bet that Jesse called up Mrs. King and said "Hey, there's this movie that's making jokes about Martin sleeping around. How do you feel?"
posted by witchstone at 9:07 AM on September 24, 2002
[The producers wish to apologize to Jesse Jackson for the offensive joke that witchstone just made]
Really, Jesse has been all over the map in recent years. As oflinkey said, there are far greater issues to get up in arms about.
As far as the Kings being offended, what do you want to bet that Jesse called up Mrs. King and said "Hey, there's this movie that's making jokes about Martin sleeping around. How do you feel?"
posted by witchstone at 9:07 AM on September 24, 2002
Did he smear MLKs blood on his shirt before the press conference?
posted by Dreamghost at 9:14 AM on September 24, 2002
posted by Dreamghost at 9:14 AM on September 24, 2002
This is like saying that David Duke is a prominent leader in the white community.
So now Jackson's a Klukker, too?
((
pet peeve: the elegant "bastard child" joke is almost as funny as that old Ted Kennedy stuff about drowning
(Same for the Reagan-Heston/Alzheimer/drool/diaper jokes, of course, and Limbaugh's hearing loss -- bad taste is bipartisan apparently)
))
posted by matteo at 9:17 AM on September 24, 2002
So now Jackson's a Klukker, too?
((
pet peeve: the elegant "bastard child" joke is almost as funny as that old Ted Kennedy stuff about drowning
(Same for the Reagan-Heston/Alzheimer/drool/diaper jokes, of course, and Limbaugh's hearing loss -- bad taste is bipartisan apparently)
))
posted by matteo at 9:17 AM on September 24, 2002
Reagan, Heston, and Limbaugh had no choice in their own medical matters. Jackson did have a choice and he chose poorly. Amen to ColdChef's remark! Can I get a witness?
posted by bunktone at 9:28 AM on September 24, 2002
posted by bunktone at 9:28 AM on September 24, 2002
did have a choice and he chose poorly.
Like, his mistress chose not to abort the child? Is that the poor choice?
Because if you're talking about marital infidelity, well, I don't think he is the first politician/public figure/reverend/you name it/ to do that
(it's interesting how I find myself defending on MeFi Jackson, foldy, et al, people I don't even like. That's one of the reasons I use this site)
posted by matteo at 9:32 AM on September 24, 2002
Like, his mistress chose not to abort the child? Is that the poor choice?
Because if you're talking about marital infidelity, well, I don't think he is the first politician/public figure/reverend/you name it/ to do that
(it's interesting how I find myself defending on MeFi Jackson, foldy, et al, people I don't even like. That's one of the reasons I use this site)
posted by matteo at 9:32 AM on September 24, 2002
That and the fact that the Ted Kennedy joke involves dead people that happened over 30 years ago. Jesse is a little more topical.
Jesse Jackson makes me laugh.
posted by Witty at 9:36 AM on September 24, 2002
Jesse Jackson makes me laugh.
posted by Witty at 9:36 AM on September 24, 2002
Cold Dreamghost. Cold.
He only uses that blood for special occasions.
posted by Dr_Octavius at 9:37 AM on September 24, 2002
He only uses that blood for special occasions.
posted by Dr_Octavius at 9:37 AM on September 24, 2002
As PinkStainlessTail noted:
"[The character in the movie] also directs an expletive at Jackson."
Owillis: You saw the movie. What did they say about Jesse? Could he just be really miffed about that?
posted by sharksandwich at 9:39 AM on September 24, 2002
"[The character in the movie] also directs an expletive at Jackson."
Owillis: You saw the movie. What did they say about Jesse? Could he just be really miffed about that?
posted by sharksandwich at 9:39 AM on September 24, 2002
Like, his mistress chose not to abort the child? Is that the poor choice?
Umm no, the choice to keep his pants on.
well, I don't think he is the first politician/public figure/reverend/you name it/ to do that
Pointing to other indiscretions, don't make this any less of one.
Coming from a "moral" authority.. kinda hard to take
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 9:40 AM on September 24, 2002
Umm no, the choice to keep his pants on.
well, I don't think he is the first politician/public figure/reverend/you name it/ to do that
Pointing to other indiscretions, don't make this any less of one.
Coming from a "moral" authority.. kinda hard to take
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 9:40 AM on September 24, 2002
Well, I think that in the last year, very few here on MeFimade fun of the Western Wolrd's leader past personal problems or "indiscretions" (ex or recovering alcoholic, very likely former cokehead, etc).
But you know, fuck Jackson and Clinton, they cheated on their wives!
Anyway it's amazing that you guys get worked up about this funny stuff, and nobody complained about the Jackson/Duke comparison which really is scandalous
posted by matteo at 9:47 AM on September 24, 2002
But you know, fuck Jackson and Clinton, they cheated on their wives!
Anyway it's amazing that you guys get worked up about this funny stuff, and nobody complained about the Jackson/Duke comparison which really is scandalous
posted by matteo at 9:47 AM on September 24, 2002
Anyway it's amazing that you guys get worked up about this funny stuff, and nobody complained about the Jackson/Duke comparison which really is scandalous
Why is that? Both are racists, using race-baiting for personal gain. Neither represent a majority of Americans, or a major group for that matter.
The only difference I see, is that Jackson get's his money tax free.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 9:51 AM on September 24, 2002
Why is that? Both are racists, using race-baiting for personal gain. Neither represent a majority of Americans, or a major group for that matter.
The only difference I see, is that Jackson get's his money tax free.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 9:51 AM on September 24, 2002
He (Jackson) accused the filmmakers of "trying to turn tragedy into comedy.
Aren't there worse things to be "accused" of? Of course, they were turning tragedy into comedy, you irony-impaired dope! I think the approach of "making a dollar out of 15 cents" is the most invaluable trait of modern black comedy (see: Chris Rock, et al). I'd hate to see it abolished. If Jesse should disappear, however.....
posted by dhoyt at 9:58 AM on September 24, 2002
Aren't there worse things to be "accused" of? Of course, they were turning tragedy into comedy, you irony-impaired dope! I think the approach of "making a dollar out of 15 cents" is the most invaluable trait of modern black comedy (see: Chris Rock, et al). I'd hate to see it abolished. If Jesse should disappear, however.....
posted by dhoyt at 9:58 AM on September 24, 2002
matteo: Well, I think that in the last year, very few here on MeFimade fun of the Western Wolrd's leader past personal problems or "indiscretions" (ex or recovering alcoholic, very likely former cokehead, etc).
This may sound a bit blunt but, matteo, are you on crack? Do a MeFi search for "pretzel", "recovering alcoholic" or "cocaine" within the last year and see what you find. I'd link to specific threads, but there are dozens of posts that do exactly what you've declared never happened.
posted by Danelope at 10:38 AM on September 24, 2002
This may sound a bit blunt but, matteo, are you on crack? Do a MeFi search for "pretzel", "recovering alcoholic" or "cocaine" within the last year and see what you find. I'd link to specific threads, but there are dozens of posts that do exactly what you've declared never happened.
posted by Danelope at 10:38 AM on September 24, 2002
i can't believe i'm the first one to say this. this quote, i found interesting: "He accused the filmmakers of "trying to turn tragedy into comedy.""
Remember: Comedy=Tragedy over time....
"If it bends, it's funny. If it breaks, it's not funny"
posted by elsar at 10:38 AM on September 24, 2002
Remember: Comedy=Tragedy over time....
"If it bends, it's funny. If it breaks, it's not funny"
posted by elsar at 10:38 AM on September 24, 2002
In other news:
-------------
Rev. Jesse Jackson walked into the appliance section of a Sears Roebuck store. He looked around then shouted, " I want to see the manager right now!"
The manager of the department came out and said, "How can I help you Reverend?" Jesse replied, "I want to know why all of your washing machines are WHITE?"
The manager immediately flipped open all the lids of the washing machines and said: "Reverend Jackson, yes, all of our washing are white but if you look inside, you'll find that all of the Agitators are Black."
--------
Uh oh....I had better duck....
posted by Sal Amander at 10:52 AM on September 24, 2002
-------------
Rev. Jesse Jackson walked into the appliance section of a Sears Roebuck store. He looked around then shouted, " I want to see the manager right now!"
The manager of the department came out and said, "How can I help you Reverend?" Jesse replied, "I want to know why all of your washing machines are WHITE?"
The manager immediately flipped open all the lids of the washing machines and said: "Reverend Jackson, yes, all of our washing are white but if you look inside, you'll find that all of the Agitators are Black."
--------
Uh oh....I had better duck....
posted by Sal Amander at 10:52 AM on September 24, 2002
So I guess the formula is:
Making fun of a white public figure = comedy.
Making fun of a black public figure = racism.
(/me writes that down)
posted by RylandDotNet at 10:54 AM on September 24, 2002
Making fun of a white public figure = comedy.
Making fun of a black public figure = racism.
(/me writes that down)
posted by RylandDotNet at 10:54 AM on September 24, 2002
Pointing to other indiscretions, don't make this any less of one.
Coming from a "moral" authority.. kinda hard to take
Yeah, and pointing out someone's marital dificulties and/or arrangements doesn't make them a bad leader, or a bad person, or anything. It just makes 'em not exactly what somebody else is. I don't see why people shouldn't mind their own business and stop pretending that who you slept with has anything to do with how you do your job.
posted by hob at 11:00 AM on September 24, 2002
Coming from a "moral" authority.. kinda hard to take
Yeah, and pointing out someone's marital dificulties and/or arrangements doesn't make them a bad leader, or a bad person, or anything. It just makes 'em not exactly what somebody else is. I don't see why people shouldn't mind their own business and stop pretending that who you slept with has anything to do with how you do your job.
posted by hob at 11:00 AM on September 24, 2002
When I read about this on George's site I had the same reaction that I do now - what's the big deal? Martin Luther King was a womanizer. That doesn't take away from all the great things he did, it's just a statement of fact. Rosa Parks didn't just get up one day and decide to buck the system. She probably was just tired.
People like to get all up in arms about the wrong things. All black people don't feel that way about the movie.
Also the_0ne, Jesse isn't calling racism. He's asking us to pretend like the only thing we know about our heroes are the good things.
posted by monique at 11:12 AM on September 24, 2002
People like to get all up in arms about the wrong things. All black people don't feel that way about the movie.
Also the_0ne, Jesse isn't calling racism. He's asking us to pretend like the only thing we know about our heroes are the good things.
posted by monique at 11:12 AM on September 24, 2002
I saw it this weekend with a mixed-race bunch, and we all thought it was pretty funny. Nobody even raised an eyebrow about any of this stuff.
He (Jackson) accused the filmmakers of "trying to turn tragedy into comedy.
Kind of ironic, since Jackson's stock-in-trade is trying to turn tragedy into personal political gain.
On a side note, I'm not really seeing the tragedy. I mean, weren't both Parks and King symbols of the triumphs of the civil rights movement? I understand that they were triumphs that sprung from the tragedies of injustice, but isn't everything? It's not like the movie made a joke about King's assasination or an actual tragedy.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 11:15 AM on September 24, 2002
He (Jackson) accused the filmmakers of "trying to turn tragedy into comedy.
Kind of ironic, since Jackson's stock-in-trade is trying to turn tragedy into personal political gain.
On a side note, I'm not really seeing the tragedy. I mean, weren't both Parks and King symbols of the triumphs of the civil rights movement? I understand that they were triumphs that sprung from the tragedies of injustice, but isn't everything? It's not like the movie made a joke about King's assasination or an actual tragedy.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 11:15 AM on September 24, 2002
totally messed george's link up, sorry. it should be pointing here.
posted by monique at 11:15 AM on September 24, 2002
posted by monique at 11:15 AM on September 24, 2002
Darrell Hammond (sp?) does an incredible Jesse Jackson impression.
Was it him or the real Jesse Jackson that came on Weekend Update and read "Green Eggs and Ham". Whoever it was, it was hilarious.
posted by McBain at 11:22 AM on September 24, 2002
Was it him or the real Jesse Jackson that came on Weekend Update and read "Green Eggs and Ham". Whoever it was, it was hilarious.
posted by McBain at 11:22 AM on September 24, 2002
I don't see why people shouldn't mind their own business and stop pretending that who you slept with has anything to do with how you do your job.
Personal morality does have something to do with your job when your job is as a religious and spiritual leader (Reverend Jesse Jackson, if you recall). If you are preaching about marital fidelity, being a moral person, honesty, etc., you bet your ass that your own infidelity is going to make people think you're a tad hypocritical. Public figures are subject to public scrutiny--and you can't always manipulate it in your favor.
posted by witchstone at 11:29 AM on September 24, 2002
Personal morality does have something to do with your job when your job is as a religious and spiritual leader (Reverend Jesse Jackson, if you recall). If you are preaching about marital fidelity, being a moral person, honesty, etc., you bet your ass that your own infidelity is going to make people think you're a tad hypocritical. Public figures are subject to public scrutiny--and you can't always manipulate it in your favor.
posted by witchstone at 11:29 AM on September 24, 2002
It was the real Jesse Jackson who read "Green Eggs and Ham". he also did a very amusing sketch involving a gameshow called "The Question is Moot".
These are the only times the man is not getting on my nerves.
posted by Julnyes at 11:32 AM on September 24, 2002
These are the only times the man is not getting on my nerves.
posted by Julnyes at 11:32 AM on September 24, 2002
hob -- I don't think that you can take all of the morale issues out of infidelity. Monogamy is certainly not for everyone, but if that's true for you, don't promise to be faithful. Going back on your word is crappy, and it can't really be dismissed as "not bad, just different."
I had a furthermore here, but witchstone pretty much said it. Infidelity doesn't make you a bad, say, president, but it makes you a pretty sad holier-than-thou moral authority.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 11:34 AM on September 24, 2002
I had a furthermore here, but witchstone pretty much said it. Infidelity doesn't make you a bad, say, president, but it makes you a pretty sad holier-than-thou moral authority.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 11:34 AM on September 24, 2002
~chuckle~
Predictable hypocrisy is at work here, as usual. Our conservative friends will howl hysterically if Jesse Jackson criticizes a movie that pokes fun at black leaders. And in the very next breath, these same conservatives will howl hysterically if you poke fun at Bush or any of their own most special heroes. These are the same folks who whine like babies if historians point out the real human failings of people like the "founding fathers." These are the same folks who lobby for tight control on media content themselves.
Coming from a "moral" authority.. kinda hard to take
And may one assume you and the rest of the moral majority have the same disdain for the former alcoholic, draft-dodging, slimy businessman now occupying the Oval Office?
Rosa Parks didn't just get up one day and decide to buck the system. She probably was just tired.
Uh, no:
When Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat to a white man forty years ago on December 1, 1955, she was tired and weary from a long day of work.
At least that's how the event has been retold countless times and recorded in our history books. But, there's a misconception here that does not do justice to the woman whose act of courage began turning the wheels of the civil rights movement on that fateful day.
Rosa Parks was physically tired, but no more than you or I after a long day's work. In fact, under other circumstances, she would have probably given up her seat willingly to a child or elderly person. But this time Parks was tired of the treatment she and other African Americans received every day of their lives, what with the racism, segregation, and Jim Crow laws of the time.
"Our mistreatment was just not right, and I was tired of it," writes Parks in her recent book, Quiet Strength, (ZondervanPublishingHouse, 1994). "I kept thinking about my mother and my grandparents, and how strong they were. I knew there was a possibility of being mistreated, but an opportunity was being given to me to do what I had asked of others."
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 11:42 AM on September 24, 2002
Predictable hypocrisy is at work here, as usual. Our conservative friends will howl hysterically if Jesse Jackson criticizes a movie that pokes fun at black leaders. And in the very next breath, these same conservatives will howl hysterically if you poke fun at Bush or any of their own most special heroes. These are the same folks who whine like babies if historians point out the real human failings of people like the "founding fathers." These are the same folks who lobby for tight control on media content themselves.
Coming from a "moral" authority.. kinda hard to take
And may one assume you and the rest of the moral majority have the same disdain for the former alcoholic, draft-dodging, slimy businessman now occupying the Oval Office?
Rosa Parks didn't just get up one day and decide to buck the system. She probably was just tired.
Uh, no:
When Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat to a white man forty years ago on December 1, 1955, she was tired and weary from a long day of work.
At least that's how the event has been retold countless times and recorded in our history books. But, there's a misconception here that does not do justice to the woman whose act of courage began turning the wheels of the civil rights movement on that fateful day.
Rosa Parks was physically tired, but no more than you or I after a long day's work. In fact, under other circumstances, she would have probably given up her seat willingly to a child or elderly person. But this time Parks was tired of the treatment she and other African Americans received every day of their lives, what with the racism, segregation, and Jim Crow laws of the time.
"Our mistreatment was just not right, and I was tired of it," writes Parks in her recent book, Quiet Strength, (ZondervanPublishingHouse, 1994). "I kept thinking about my mother and my grandparents, and how strong they were. I knew there was a possibility of being mistreated, but an opportunity was being given to me to do what I had asked of others."
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 11:42 AM on September 24, 2002
when your job is as a religious and spiritual leader
if i were a paritioner of rev. jackson's this might be of concern to me; the question is moot, however, because i am not , and neither is most of the rest of the nation.
Going back on your word is crappy, and it can't really be dismissed as "not bad, just different."
nor was i attempting to suggest that it wasn't. however, it is a matter between him, his wife and other parties involved. we the public are not parties involved, and it is none of our business.
posted by hob at 11:42 AM on September 24, 2002
if i were a paritioner of rev. jackson's this might be of concern to me; the question is moot, however, because i am not , and neither is most of the rest of the nation.
Going back on your word is crappy, and it can't really be dismissed as "not bad, just different."
nor was i attempting to suggest that it wasn't. however, it is a matter between him, his wife and other parties involved. we the public are not parties involved, and it is none of our business.
posted by hob at 11:42 AM on September 24, 2002
I used to like Jesse Jackson. I supported his run for the presidency twice in the 80's. You know when he lost me?
When he started leaping on every pet cause with a black "victim." Remember those high school students that were videotaped at a football game brutally beating other students and the Reverend fought for their right to be admitted back into school?
I doubt that MLK would have ever jumped to the defense of thugs like that.
posted by ColdChef at 11:43 AM on September 24, 2002
When he started leaping on every pet cause with a black "victim." Remember those high school students that were videotaped at a football game brutally beating other students and the Reverend fought for their right to be admitted back into school?
I doubt that MLK would have ever jumped to the defense of thugs like that.
posted by ColdChef at 11:43 AM on September 24, 2002
I might be totally misunderstanding you, fold_and_mutilate, but it doesn't seem to me that you have to be conservative to think that Jackson is a little bit of an annoying, hypocritical, media whore.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 11:46 AM on September 24, 2002
posted by LittleMissCranky at 11:46 AM on September 24, 2002
Finally, Bush put his private life in the public sector as a political tool (something I have seen Bill and Hillary criticized for, like when Chelsea was photographed between them after the Monica bomb dropped). From Eric Alterman: "President Bush long ago forfeited his family’s right to personal privacy when he announced — while campaigning for the right-wing religious vote — that what happened in the privacy of his own bedroom was somehow the nation’s business. He said he thought it a job requirement of a president to remain faithful to his wife." This campaign ploy, and its obvious reference to Clinton, voluntarily brought the private Bush into the public arena. But according to Bush, only private virtue may be spoken of, while private foible is totally off-limits. Unless the personal flaw is found in an enemy, then it is to be exploited to the end of time. The mainstream press castigated Bill Clinton for failing to be a moral example to the nation and its children, but has remained largely mute about GW Bush lying to the public about his DUI and possible other drug and alcohol related arrests. Is there some fundamental difference between adultery and drunk driving? I would argue the latter is actually more reprehensible because it endangers lives, the former only hurts some feelings.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 11:46 AM on September 24, 2002
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 11:46 AM on September 24, 2002
Sal Amander: Nice joke. Did you download any other winners from the vanguard network?
posted by originalname37 at 11:51 AM on September 24, 2002
posted by originalname37 at 11:51 AM on September 24, 2002
hob -- I am certainly not personally offended by Jackson's indiscretions, but given his personal life, I am not going to take his bid to be recognized as a moral leader -- of a large part of the population of the US, not just of his local church -- too seriously.
ColdChef, I'm right there with you. I used to be a Jackson fan, but his recent activities (by which I mean virtually everything he's done in the last decade and a half or so) have convinced me that he's pretty much concerned with keeping himself in front of a camera, and that's about it.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 11:53 AM on September 24, 2002
ColdChef, I'm right there with you. I used to be a Jackson fan, but his recent activities (by which I mean virtually everything he's done in the last decade and a half or so) have convinced me that he's pretty much concerned with keeping himself in front of a camera, and that's about it.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 11:53 AM on September 24, 2002
fold_and_mutilate: What the hell does Bush have to do with any of this? Aren't there plenty of other threads for Bush bashing? This is Jesse bashing... stay on topic please.
posted by Witty at 11:56 AM on September 24, 2002
posted by Witty at 11:56 AM on September 24, 2002
Originalname37 (is that really your name?)...ahh...no...it was e-mailed to me....thankyouverymuch.
If I offended anyone, I apologize. This was not my intention, and my posting it was simply out of my frustration that the goddamn press gives Jesse Jackson a pulpit to speak from no matter how ridiculous the topic.
posted by Sal Amander at 12:07 PM on September 24, 2002
If I offended anyone, I apologize. This was not my intention, and my posting it was simply out of my frustration that the goddamn press gives Jesse Jackson a pulpit to speak from no matter how ridiculous the topic.
posted by Sal Amander at 12:07 PM on September 24, 2002
Come on Witty, this is MeFi, of course a thread can not go by without bashing Bush. It just makes everything, all right. I guess anyway.
Actually Sal Amander, that pulpit has shrunk over the past months to even year(s), so be happy. :) The national race baitor hopefully will fade into the background along with his good friend Al Sharpton. Maybe they'll stick to harrassing small high schools instead.
posted by the_0ne at 12:21 PM on September 24, 2002
Actually Sal Amander, that pulpit has shrunk over the past months to even year(s), so be happy. :) The national race baitor hopefully will fade into the background along with his good friend Al Sharpton. Maybe they'll stick to harrassing small high schools instead.
posted by the_0ne at 12:21 PM on September 24, 2002
Yeah, I don't know what the jokes are, but both those comments sound actually like interesting and reasonable things to say. It's definitely true of Rosa Parks - it was essentially a staged act; they decided to start the movement by having her refuse to give up her seat. She was an activist and was representing all blacks in her action, which is great and deserves praise, but it's also true that other individuals broke that law before her.
Re: MLK, would we condemn a movie that made comments about JFK's womanizing? It seems regressive to demand we ignore mistakes made only by black leaders. Many great people have been deeply flawed in other ways - and if you're a public figure, your private business may not remain quite so private (actually, even private citizens often can't keep their indiscretions secret from their communities - it's really just the size of the community of the public figure that's different).
posted by mdn at 12:22 PM on September 24, 2002
Re: MLK, would we condemn a movie that made comments about JFK's womanizing? It seems regressive to demand we ignore mistakes made only by black leaders. Many great people have been deeply flawed in other ways - and if you're a public figure, your private business may not remain quite so private (actually, even private citizens often can't keep their indiscretions secret from their communities - it's really just the size of the community of the public figure that's different).
posted by mdn at 12:22 PM on September 24, 2002
Sal Amander: "I thought it was very funny. People like to bitch, don't let it get to you."
posted by Perigee at 12:27 PM on September 24, 2002
posted by Perigee at 12:27 PM on September 24, 2002
My two cents as a black man -- Jesse Jackson needs to shut his yap. He's not doing a very good job of representing the African American community by whining and nitpicking and carrying on about trivia. We have more important things to worry about.
posted by oissubke at 12:32 PM on September 24, 2002
posted by oissubke at 12:32 PM on September 24, 2002
Why is that [Jackson/Duke comparison really is scandalous]? Both are racists, using race-baiting for personal gain. Neither represent a majority of Americans, or a major group for that matter.
This may be true. However, though this is where Jackson's probelms (private matters notwithstanding) end, it's only the beginning of Duke's. David Duke also happens to have lead some of the most violent terrorist organizations in America. Not to mention the fact that, though I'm assuming that by "racist" in Jessie Jackson's case, you mean alleged anti-semetic remarks, David Duke was the grand dragon of the klu klux klan! So we've got Duke way ahead of Jackson in terms racism before you even think about how Duke feels about blacks, hispanics, asians, native americans, etc.
A better comparison for Jessie Jackson might be Pat Roberton.
posted by originalname37 at 12:40 PM on September 24, 2002
This may be true. However, though this is where Jackson's probelms (private matters notwithstanding) end, it's only the beginning of Duke's. David Duke also happens to have lead some of the most violent terrorist organizations in America. Not to mention the fact that, though I'm assuming that by "racist" in Jessie Jackson's case, you mean alleged anti-semetic remarks, David Duke was the grand dragon of the klu klux klan! So we've got Duke way ahead of Jackson in terms racism before you even think about how Duke feels about blacks, hispanics, asians, native americans, etc.
A better comparison for Jessie Jackson might be Pat Roberton.
posted by originalname37 at 12:40 PM on September 24, 2002
.. Pat Robertson. Sorry.
posted by originalname37 at 12:41 PM on September 24, 2002
posted by originalname37 at 12:41 PM on September 24, 2002
Wasn't this just a movie?
yeah. isn't this just jesse?
posted by quonsar at 12:58 PM on September 24, 2002
yeah. isn't this just jesse?
posted by quonsar at 12:58 PM on September 24, 2002
Maybe this is the only way Jesse can bring any press to the table, makes a stink. He did see it, I don't hear him asking for a refund which he should have done first, right.
Notice; but still wants the jokes cut from future DVD and video editions of the hit movie. Not banned, sounds more like a copyright issue now for the artist. If I had made the movie, he would be protesting for blocking the movie from being viewed, thus loss cash for me. Not asking me to make an apology. That is the message I see, here.
posted by thomcatspike at 1:06 PM on September 24, 2002
Notice; but still wants the jokes cut from future DVD and video editions of the hit movie. Not banned, sounds more like a copyright issue now for the artist. If I had made the movie, he would be protesting for blocking the movie from being viewed, thus loss cash for me. Not asking me to make an apology. That is the message I see, here.
posted by thomcatspike at 1:06 PM on September 24, 2002
... would we condemn a movie that made comments about JFK's womanizing?
I don't think so. Double standard? Maybe.
But you must also remember that the very director of the FBI (mr Hoover) actually tried to use tapes of King with women other than his wife to blackmail him and to discredit him .
Try this source for example:
The FBI constantly sought to undermine King with supporters, deny him awards and honorary degrees, and even sabotage an audience with Pope Paul VI. Its vendetta culminated in a package of tapes and other material, together with an ''anonymous'' letter urging King to commit suicide, that was sent to reporters, political and religious leaders, and King himself.
About the Duke comparison: Jackson may be a con man, but really, some of you guys must read up on history: the South, lynchings, and the KKK
Jackson "hymie" comment was unforgivable, but Jesus, we're talking about a fucking Grand Wizard of this fun bunch of savage murderers
posted by matteo at 1:07 PM on September 24, 2002
I don't think so. Double standard? Maybe.
But you must also remember that the very director of the FBI (mr Hoover) actually tried to use tapes of King with women other than his wife to blackmail him and to discredit him .
Try this source for example:
The FBI constantly sought to undermine King with supporters, deny him awards and honorary degrees, and even sabotage an audience with Pope Paul VI. Its vendetta culminated in a package of tapes and other material, together with an ''anonymous'' letter urging King to commit suicide, that was sent to reporters, political and religious leaders, and King himself.
About the Duke comparison: Jackson may be a con man, but really, some of you guys must read up on history: the South, lynchings, and the KKK
Jackson "hymie" comment was unforgivable, but Jesus, we're talking about a fucking Grand Wizard of this fun bunch of savage murderers
posted by matteo at 1:07 PM on September 24, 2002
re: Rosa Parks
The character also says other blacks refused to give up their seats to whites in the segregated south, but that Rosa Parks got the credit because she was connected to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.
Um, that's true. I'll try to find the link for you, but the way the story goes is the NAACP was looking for the right kind of person to represent the cause of desegregation. Rosa Parks was a hard working, church going grandmother. To see her being arrested caused more outrage in the press than other blacks who had been arrested for the same "crime." It's a cynical play, but go with what works......
posted by elwoodwiles at 1:23 PM on September 24, 2002
The character also says other blacks refused to give up their seats to whites in the segregated south, but that Rosa Parks got the credit because she was connected to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.
Um, that's true. I'll try to find the link for you, but the way the story goes is the NAACP was looking for the right kind of person to represent the cause of desegregation. Rosa Parks was a hard working, church going grandmother. To see her being arrested caused more outrage in the press than other blacks who had been arrested for the same "crime." It's a cynical play, but go with what works......
posted by elwoodwiles at 1:23 PM on September 24, 2002
hob - what is Jesse's job again?
Now that is actually not an easy question to answer. However, I'm going to go with "Activist" -- he may in fact be a minister, but that is not the role in which most of us meet him. What would you say MLK's job was?
posted by hob at 1:59 PM on September 24, 2002
Now that is actually not an easy question to answer. However, I'm going to go with "Activist" -- he may in fact be a minister, but that is not the role in which most of us meet him. What would you say MLK's job was?
posted by hob at 1:59 PM on September 24, 2002
elwoodwiles: Parks was certainly not the the first person to attempt to deseregate any sort of local transport service in the U.S., or even Alabama. Among others who tried was one Mildred McAdory, a cook who had been a union organizer. In 1942, she tried to desegregate Birmingham, Ala. streetcars. Police beat and jailed her for the effort. (She had been on the streetcar with two members of the Southern Negro Youth Congress.)
Parks was also not new to the world of civil rights. But that doesn't mean she was put up to her historic moment. The man for whom Parks (who'd just completed a workshop in race relations at the Highlander Folk School in Monteagle, Tenn.) worked at the NAACP, E.D. Nixon, had met McAdory and been an admirer. He sought out someone to desegregate the buses in Montgomery. He had also earlier met with a 15-year-old girl who'd tried to desegregate Mongtomery's buses, and considered using her for a test case. Nixon's secretary, however, was a step ahead of him. It was coincidental, according to several accounts I've read. Nixon had no idea what was going on at first. The photograph of her being fingerprinted is what probably brought as much attention to the case as anything. Media exposure was a significant variable here regardless.
Parks was 42, by the way. She may have been a grandmother, but I doubt she struck most as being firmly in Grandma Territory.
posted by raysmj at 2:32 PM on September 24, 2002
Parks was also not new to the world of civil rights. But that doesn't mean she was put up to her historic moment. The man for whom Parks (who'd just completed a workshop in race relations at the Highlander Folk School in Monteagle, Tenn.) worked at the NAACP, E.D. Nixon, had met McAdory and been an admirer. He sought out someone to desegregate the buses in Montgomery. He had also earlier met with a 15-year-old girl who'd tried to desegregate Mongtomery's buses, and considered using her for a test case. Nixon's secretary, however, was a step ahead of him. It was coincidental, according to several accounts I've read. Nixon had no idea what was going on at first. The photograph of her being fingerprinted is what probably brought as much attention to the case as anything. Media exposure was a significant variable here regardless.
Parks was 42, by the way. She may have been a grandmother, but I doubt she struck most as being firmly in Grandma Territory.
posted by raysmj at 2:32 PM on September 24, 2002
I'm assuming that by "racist" in Jessie Jackson's case, you mean alleged anti-semetic remarks
As well as causing a divide between black Americans and all other Americans by making every issue about the "black community" instead of the "American community" He is racist towards black as much as any one else.
David Duke was the grand dragon of the klu klux klan!
Yes, David Duke is evil, I am not arguing that.
...bashing Bush. It just makes everything, all right.
That is all f&m ever has to bring to the table, his hatred for Bush must consume him so much that he needs to vent it at every opportunity
And may one assume you and the rest of the moral majority have the same disdain for the former alcoholic, draft-dodging, slimy businessman now occupying the Oval Office?
Not any more so than the deceitful habitual liar of a draft-dodging, socialist womanizer that dirtied the office before him.
f&m, those who live in glass houses should not throw stones...
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 2:42 PM on September 24, 2002
As well as causing a divide between black Americans and all other Americans by making every issue about the "black community" instead of the "American community" He is racist towards black as much as any one else.
David Duke was the grand dragon of the klu klux klan!
Yes, David Duke is evil, I am not arguing that.
...bashing Bush. It just makes everything, all right.
That is all f&m ever has to bring to the table, his hatred for Bush must consume him so much that he needs to vent it at every opportunity
And may one assume you and the rest of the moral majority have the same disdain for the former alcoholic, draft-dodging, slimy businessman now occupying the Oval Office?
Not any more so than the deceitful habitual liar of a draft-dodging, socialist womanizer that dirtied the office before him.
f&m, those who live in glass houses should not throw stones...
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 2:42 PM on September 24, 2002
Steve, I believe that F&M is on record as saying pretty clearly that the Republicrats and the Demicans look the same from where he stands. So, no glass house there.
Now, did I understand you to say that you distain W and Clinton equally?
posted by hob at 2:51 PM on September 24, 2002
Now, did I understand you to say that you distain W and Clinton equally?
posted by hob at 2:51 PM on September 24, 2002
raysmj: Hey thanks for the links and the more specific facts.
posted by elwoodwiles at 2:58 PM on September 24, 2002
posted by elwoodwiles at 2:58 PM on September 24, 2002
Now, did I understand you to say that you distain [sic] W and Clinton equally?
Yes, I will go on the record as disliking all opportunistic politicos the same... The difference is that some I can work with, some I can not.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 3:09 PM on September 24, 2002
Yes, I will go on the record as disliking all opportunistic politicos the same... The difference is that some I can work with, some I can not.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 3:09 PM on September 24, 2002
Predictable hypocrisy is at work here, as usual. Our conservative friends will howl hysterically if Jesse Jackson criticizes a movie that pokes fun at black leaders. And in the very next breath, these same conservatives will howl hysterically if you poke fun at Bush or any of their own most special heroes.
And i supose that when Clinton was being bashed, none of the left-wingers howled hysterically when fun was poked at Clinton, eh?
posted by jmd82 at 3:43 PM on September 24, 2002
And i supose that when Clinton was being bashed, none of the left-wingers howled hysterically when fun was poked at Clinton, eh?
posted by jmd82 at 3:43 PM on September 24, 2002
By coincidence, I watched Bones on video last night. For those of you who haven't seen it, Snoop Dogg plays a pimp murdered in the 1970s who comes back to life in the present and gets revenge. After escaping from his grave, he confronts the first of his killers. OK, so this is the part where the star makes a clever quip before killing the bad guy. And Snoop says,
"Freeeee at laaaast, freeee at laaaast"
And then slices and stabs the guy.
I guess the Rev. Jackson didn't see that one either. Too bad, it's a pretty good movie.
posted by Daze at 10:09 PM on September 24, 2002
"Freeeee at laaaast, freeee at laaaast"
And then slices and stabs the guy.
I guess the Rev. Jackson didn't see that one either. Too bad, it's a pretty good movie.
posted by Daze at 10:09 PM on September 24, 2002
BTW, LittleMissCranky, I'm surely not conservative - but you bet I think "that Jackson is...an annoying, hypocritical, media whore."
Of course, I'm a hymie, so I *would* think that.
posted by adamgreenfield at 1:15 AM on September 25, 2002
Of course, I'm a hymie, so I *would* think that.
posted by adamgreenfield at 1:15 AM on September 25, 2002
I've heard that all of the big fat Greeks are hopping on the Jesse boat and are calling for a name change...
posted by mychai at 4:28 PM on September 25, 2002
posted by mychai at 4:28 PM on September 25, 2002
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This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
A friend of mine put it like this and I totally agree...
***snippet***
So Jesse's just not happy that a movie made by black people and starring almost all black people is the #1 movie in the country. Even though that very fact would seem to demonstrate that racism isn't as big an issue as Jesse always preaches... he still manages to show that racism IS* an issue by finding racisim within the movie.
***snippet***
posted by the_0ne at 7:34 AM on September 24, 2002