October 7, 2002

1:31 PM

pickupyourowndamnsocks.com. What would you do if you found out that your significant other was keeping an anonymous, but very public, journal of things about you that drive them crazy?
posted by jonah (150 comments total)

For the record, this isn't run by my S.O. (I think)
posted by jonah at 1:33 PM on October 7, 2002

Divorce?

(but, you can't avoid to wonder: why did she marry him in the first place, if he's such a gigantic asshole?)
posted by matteo at 1:35 PM on October 7, 2002

heh ;)
posted by Grod at 1:36 PM on October 7, 2002

He's not that gigantic an asshole. It's a group weblog, so the asshole-ness is spread across about eight different husbands.
posted by UnReality at 1:37 PM on October 7, 2002

Sing!
posted by HTuttle at 1:38 PM on October 7, 2002

Personally, I LOVE it. I can only imagine that my mother would have had a much happier domestic lifespan if she'd had this to vent with (Now she and my dad live in Manhattan in a little apartment with just a small dog) -- and I, my sister and father would perhaps not have had to have our eardrums split thrice-weekly. That said, I have a few choice tidbits I could contribute on the subject of my SO (Mom, I understand now), and he I am SURE would have volumes to spew about me (let's just say the Neatnik I am not).

And besides, if the offending SO finds it -- maybe s/he will learn a thing or two. Kind of like those anonymous Ann Landers column where the author is totally like "Ann please agree with me so I can show this to my stupid jerk husband and pretend I didn't write the letter"...
posted by babylon at 1:41 PM on October 7, 2002

I've often thought about doing a blog like this, but not just for SO's, but for everybody that I converse with. I wanted to call it "things I should've said" or something. But I hope mine wouldn't be so petty and snippy as this one. Humorous, but it seems like some of these women have some serious communication conflicts that they need to resolve within their relationships.
posted by Ufez Jones at 1:44 PM on October 7, 2002

I believe Dr. Phil would say that she has a problem communicating with her husband.
posted by mkelley at 1:45 PM on October 7, 2002

It kind of reminds me of this site...
posted by stifford at 1:46 PM on October 7, 2002

Ah, love.
posted by timeistight at 1:50 PM on October 7, 2002

Some of these women I can sympathize with, but the women who complain about their SOs' sleeping habits? Jesus Christ! Talk about something beyond your control! I snore. Sometimes I thrash in my sleep or do weird things with my arms! It ain't my goddamn fault! I'm gonna channel a little Dan Savage here and suggest that if a relatively insignificant thing like snoring is causing you this much distress, maybe you shouldn't be with that person. I would hate to find out my SO was as unforgiving as some of these people.
posted by starvingartist at 1:51 PM on October 7, 2002

It kind of reminds me of this site...

That's absolutely the funniest website I've ever seen. Whereas "Pickupyourowndamnsocks" comes across as whiny and bitter, "Things my girlfriend and I have argued about" is loving, ironic, self-effacing -- and incredibly funny.
posted by 327.ca at 1:52 PM on October 7, 2002

Answer to the question don't be silly, I would make my own journal,

How to Make Your Spouse so Crazy, She Keeps An on Line Journal of You to View.

PS, shhh the word As she doesn't know we are all in on it but her.
posted by thomcatspike at 1:54 PM on October 7, 2002

Maybe these friggin' yentas should take a look at themselves and figure out why they got with such pain-in-the-ass losers instead of whining about it anonymously. I have no respect for somebody who criticizes me while wearing a mask that obscures their identity.
posted by Mr_Spook at 1:54 PM on October 7, 2002

I'd be tempted to slip pills of the sort prescribed for Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder into her coffee to see if this helped with the behavior.
posted by troutfishing at 1:56 PM on October 7, 2002

For the record, I tried twice to do a WhoIs on them, but got errors both times. Anyone else have any luck? Would it be unethical to out them (or at least one of them) like that?
posted by Ufez Jones at 2:01 PM on October 7, 2002

I with Mr. Spook here. I've been married about five weeks now, and I'd be lying if I told you everything's bliss and we don't argue about shit. The fact is, we do argue, we do disagree -- that's marriage. However, we do communicate and do not harbor resentment. These women are damaging themselves, their relationships and their future relationships by not trying to work these things out with their Sig Others.

The Oprah generation at work.
posted by bivouac at 2:04 PM on October 7, 2002

Starvingartist, I have one of those husbands who take up the whole bed. He used to snore till he got his cpap machine for sleep apnea.

There is no hell like being dog tired and having to shove a man out of the way to actually get to sleep-or try to. Mine is a lot bigger than I am so sometimes I have to take pillow and blanket to a lumpy couch. Your SO won't tell you but if you have those bedroom habits she feels the same way as the women on that blog. Read and learn, friend.

Every bit of the rest of that blog is true as well. Scarily so.
posted by konolia at 2:04 PM on October 7, 2002

Would it be unethical to out them (or at least one of them) like that?

Um, yes. Yes, it would.
posted by jennyjenny at 2:05 PM on October 7, 2002

To the rest of you, I hate to disillusion you all but after a few years of wedded bliss all of you can be a pain in the derriere. Not to be sexist I am sure we women have our own obnoxious behaviors...but again I can tell you that that blog simply tells the bald truth.
posted by konolia at 2:07 PM on October 7, 2002

Your SO won't tell you but if you have those bedroom habits she feels the same way as the women on that blog. Read and learn, friend.

My SO does tell me. And I really hope that the women on this blog communicate with their SOs about this stuff. If they don't, they're whiners. They may have valid complaints, but just sitting there complaining and not doing anything about it is just as unhelpful as their pigheaded husbands/boyfriends.
posted by starvingartist at 2:08 PM on October 7, 2002

for anyone who's been to the site on any regular basis (as pointed at by various people before MeFi), the identities are pretty much known. In fact, I'd venture to guess most of the SO's mentioned have been shown the site as well.

My impression is the anonymity is there to protect the SOs from looking bad because of their partner's cathartic rants.
posted by KnitWit at 2:09 PM on October 7, 2002

Eh, oh come on. The thing is, here, that these are the stupid little crap things that ALL SOs do to their SOs. Obviously the women here involved love their husbands and families, but have found it useful to vent about the crappy, annoying things they do. Sure, they probably have communication issues, but who doesn't? I mean, none of my own PERSONAL SOs would have been so flagrantly stupid as to request, say, that I pick up after them -- certainly not after the first time, given that they would likely be gazing ruefully at the bloodied remnants of what was once their eardrums spattering the walls, but I know too that the five billionth time the damn toothpaste cap is left off the toothpaste is probably not *quite* a good enough reason to hoist my boyfriend on his own petard.

That said, catch me early in the morning with dried-up toothpaste and three hours of sleep and it is everything I can do to prevent myself from introducing the whitening power of Crest to a certain someone's backside. We've all been there. Sure, it's dumb stuff, but it's the stuff that drives us all freakin bananas. I don't see why venting about it is such a bad thing - I know I've done similar things, i.e., calling up my best friend to rant about exactly HOW big an asshole my boyfriend was that day -- gets it out of the system.

Which is good in my case since when I get mad I get awfully bratty and stubborn. The only plus in this case is that I recognize this and attempt to avoid it at all costs.

PS I am way too happy that I finally got a chance to say 'hoist on his own petard'. I love that phrase. Petard petard petard.
posted by babylon at 2:09 PM on October 7, 2002

Those women should all just leave and quit making their husbands' lives hell.
posted by Ty Webb at 2:11 PM on October 7, 2002

Coming soon to a web near you: oillightwasonforaweek.com
posted by UncleFes at 2:11 PM on October 7, 2002

(An excerpt from she's cold, him put a sweater on, but she acts the jerk here)
I stomp out of room (she acts like a child)

and go downstairs where I notice it is a full 10 degrees warmer. No wonder he's not cold!!
(Dope! lady, he can't read minds)

Then he comes looking for me. I push past him on the stairs and he's like"what's wrong?" (It's better for everyone that I don't answer.) He lets it go and I then realize that he has turned the heat on.
(Sound like a nice guy to me until you push him)

I put on a fleece and storm into the room where I turn off the heat. Again the feigned innocence "what's your problem?" I storm out again.

Uggg this poor guy, I'm sure most who read root for him....

PS, answer to her question, Does she look like your mother? I hope not hate to be her kid plus I bet his similar answer too. That's why it's her problems not his, smart guy.
posted by thomcatspike at 2:12 PM on October 7, 2002

bivouac: The Oprah Generation? Naw, they'd be crying and hugging each other, not bitter and angry.
posted by kelrae3 at 2:14 PM on October 7, 2002

Just in case anyone else is as curious about the etymology of petard as I was:

WORD HISTORY The French used pétard, “a loud discharge of intestinal gas,” for a kind of infernal engine for blasting through the gates of a city. “To be hoist by one's own petard,” a now proverbial phrase apparently originating with Shakespeare's Hamlet (around 1604) not long after the word entered English (around 1598), means “to blow oneself up with one's own bomb, be undone by one's own devices.” The French noun pet, “fart,” developed regularly from the Latin noun peditum, from the Indo-European root *pezd–, “fart.”
posted by mr_crash_davis at 2:14 PM on October 7, 2002

To all those who call for communication:

Doesn't work. Husbands hear what they want to hear, the rest goes out into the ether.

Judging from some of the reactions on this thread, the truth hurts.
posted by konolia at 2:15 PM on October 7, 2002

According to their site, their SO's don't know about the site:

because sometimes you just need to whine. anonymously. and since those significant others all read our blogs, we just need a safe space they don't know about!

It is interesting to me that the discussion in this thread is loosely split down gender lines.
posted by jonah at 2:15 PM on October 7, 2002

... and lupus_yonderboy that wasn't a nessesarily correct, OR cool move on your part.
posted by KnitWit at 2:19 PM on October 7, 2002

I'm with you, konolia.

Goodness, I must say that Metafilter is a far, far, far more misogynic society than I ever would have imagined.

to crash_davis: I happily admit I did not know that (naturally assumed 'petard' was some sort of longarm), but that makes the phrase about ten times better in my book.
posted by babylon at 2:19 PM on October 7, 2002

Pickupyourowndamnsocks.com: This is what happens when you give psychoexgirlfriend a ring...
posted by Danelope at 2:20 PM on October 7, 2002

what is misogynistic about honest communication?!?!?
posted by jonah at 2:21 PM on October 7, 2002

I mean by that, wanting honest communnication from an SO
posted by jonah at 2:24 PM on October 7, 2002

...their partner's cathartic rants...

I think that you're confusing "cathartic" with "pathetic". To spew invective like that about the person who's supposed to be your life-partner is just beyond the pale. These women's husbands don't beat them, don't neglect them, aren't out galavanting with other women, they're just being guys.

And for the record, I've been married for almost six years, and my wife and I have far too much respect for one another to let our relationship get to such a nadir that we'd be posting critical rants about the other's annoying traits/habits.

If the guy is that big of a louse, why are you with him in the first place? Instead of going through the effort of whining about him in a very public forum (thereby humiliating the both of you), drop him like a hot rock, and do the rest of the world a favor and JUST SHUT UP.
posted by Mr_Spook at 2:24 PM on October 7, 2002

What would you do...etc

I would be pissed at him for a bit, then direct him here.
posted by Su at 2:25 PM on October 7, 2002

I love that--a man linking to a site that features nothing but women denigrating their male partners is proof of MetaFilter's misogyny.
posted by NortonDC at 2:30 PM on October 7, 2002

fuck you, dear.
posted by patricking at 2:30 PM on October 7, 2002

konolia: Your SO won't tell you but if you have those bedroom habits she feels the same way as the women on that blog. Read and learn, friend.

I snore, and every woman I have lived with has spoken to me about it and we have taken steps to make things a bit more even (I only snore when I lay on my back, so they usually will wake me and I roll over).

I'm sorry if you are not in the habit of communicating with your SOs, but don't think everyone behaves that way.
posted by botono9 at 2:30 PM on October 7, 2002

Oooh, honest communication is great. I'm all for it. I and my BF engage in it on a regular basis.

That said, if there haven't been times when you sulked and glowered because She Said Something or she said something nasty and completely uncalled for because You Didn't Do Something, then get out the halos, folks.

As for plastering stuff all over the internet........sorta doubt MeFi would have all that many links if internet-plastering wasn't, let's say, sorta common.
posted by babylon at 2:31 PM on October 7, 2002

A comment left on that site today reads, "Be warned kids. This is a marketing site." Anyone know what that's all about? I don't see any marketing, though admittedly I haven't delved into the archive or anything.
posted by Acetylene at 2:31 PM on October 7, 2002

These women's husbands don't beat them, don't neglect them, aren't out galavanting with other women, they're just being guys.

You mean being disrespectful and inconsiderate is something we need to expect and put up with?

Thanks for proving my point.
posted by konolia at 2:32 PM on October 7, 2002

Disagreeing with a woman (or group of women) who are militantly angry for some (or no) apparent reason: misogyny.

Anonymously spewing forth one's displeasure about their husbands' behavior to a vitriol-riddled weblog instead of attempting to communicate their feelings: perfectly acceptable. Not misandry at all. Nope.

Perpetuating negative and often-unfounded stereotypes about men to validate one's argument about men (particularly the ones asking for open communication) being women-haters: fantastic.
posted by Danelope at 2:33 PM on October 7, 2002

I believe it was Richard Jeni who said "Being single or being married is the choice between being lonely or annoyed"
posted by aaronscool at 2:33 PM on October 7, 2002

Oh, and. Misogynic. Between this thread and this thread, the backlash and name-calling against women stating their feelings in any overt, stand-taking, or 'emotional' manner -- pretty overwhelming.
posted by babylon at 2:34 PM on October 7, 2002

Husbands hear what they want to hear, the rest goes out into the ether

No, bad husbands hear what they want to hear. Bad wives do the same thing. Bad people, in general. But bad people can be made better, albeit sometimes only with the threat of leaving. And they can be left, too. It's actually possible to have good, loving, communicative relationships. No, really. Sure, there are occasional arguments, occasional fights, even. But a moderately happy existence is well within the reaches of most people, believe it or not.

I think generalizations like Husbands hear what they want to hear, the rest goes out into the ether are just excuses for not taking control of one's life, taking some chances, and striking out on one's own. Yeah, it's a scary world out there, but the rewards can be quite nice.
posted by MrMoonPie at 2:34 PM on October 7, 2002

Then he comes looking for me. I push past him on the stairs and he's like"what's wrong?"

I have to laugh at this, because I know from experience, as a woman, the response this guy will get is a martyred look accompanied by a quick, high-pitched "Nothing!" I do this, my girlfriends do this...men are instinctively supposed to know what they've done to tick us off. Thinking about it when I'm not angry, it is, of course, ridiculous. But, by golly, when I am steamed about something, it makes me doubly aggravated when hubby doesn't automatically know what's wrong.
posted by Oriole Adams at 2:38 PM on October 7, 2002

Kind of funny, mostly depressing.

When, oh when will the hilarity ensue?
posted by joemaller at 2:38 PM on October 7, 2002

Husbands hear what they want to hear, the rest goes out into the ether.

Oh, like that doesn't cut both ways...;)

(Married for a month, cohabited for over two years previously, so far it's changed nothing, we argued before, we argue now, neither of us take any shit from the other, we talk about everything, so far... call me again in five years;)

Seriously, the not taking shit thing, the not hiding your resentment causing it to express itself in mysterious and bad ways thing, kinda important for the sanity of everyone involved.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 2:40 PM on October 7, 2002

Norton: It's not the poster that seems misogynic to me, it's several of the responses.

I'm not talking about stereotypes here. In my house, I'm the messy one, and my boyfriend does the laundry and dishes etc. On the flip side, I take care of all the animals, thing-purchasing (we would be wiping our arses with leaves if I left the thing-purchasing up to him), and neither of us ever really wants any presents or does the romantic-anniversary-birthdays-whatever.

I'm all kinds of modern woman. I love my boyfriend, and I don't nearly hate men. I make serious efforts to avoid my personal dysfunctions, and I attempt to help him through his. I work very hard, and so does he. It's a great relationship.

That said, there are, and I expect there always will be, times when something one of us said or did simply drives the other one absolutely freaking bananas. Sometimes even for extended periods of time. Sometimes -- gasp! -- silly, ridiculous things.

Now, if I go and write them up on the internet, I'm a harpy, a shew, pathetic, loser, can't communicate, man-hating she-bitch.

Though I'd like to point out that stifford's mention of this site (which, incidentally, I am getting a hearty chuckle out of) elicited no reverse response.

And, as we all know, NO man has EVER bitched about his girlfriend/boyfriend/spouse online. Ever. Of course not. Perish the thought. You're all sensitive, crying, poetry-writing artist-men of the 21st century.
posted by babylon at 2:43 PM on October 7, 2002

the backlash and name-calling against women stating their feelings in any overt, stand-taking, or 'emotional' manner -- pretty overwhelming.

The problem isn't that they're stating their feelings. It's that they're doing it behind the back of the person who's causing these feelings. That shows a complete lack of respect and trust.
posted by Silune at 2:46 PM on October 7, 2002

Sensitive Crying Poetry-Writing Artist-Men of the 21st Century is the title of my cat's spoken word CD.
posted by Pancake Overlord at 2:47 PM on October 7, 2002

Timeout.
WTF?
Perhaps if even one of the stories on the website started with "I love him, but..." it might be a fun place to vent.

But this is pure anger. So is: Husbands hear what they want to hear, the rest goes out into the ether. konolia, you have no right to cry misogyny at anyone after making a blanket statement like that. The people I hang out with are good people, regardless of gender. If they share a home with a loved one, they share responsibilities, desires, and plans. Most of all they communicate. Something that is lacking here.

Husbands hear what they want to hear.
So why have one?
Is there really love in these relationships? I don't see it at the weblog linked to upstairs.
Something's missing. Please, somebody, fill in the gap here.
posted by PrinceValium at 2:50 PM on October 7, 2002

Pancake, I am peeing my pants on that one. Damn, I ought to have spewed that phrase forth into the ether far earlier, in re-reading it I'm liking it more and more.

Silune: that's life. You never told a friend something about your SO that you didn't tell your SO you told them? How about advice columns? Support groups? Sites like these? Online journals, many of which are kept secret from those close to one? OFFline journals, many of which are kept secret from those close to them?

If my boyfriend doesn't bitch about me to his friends when I'm not around, I'll be goddamned. And vice versa. So it's public? We don't know their names. We don't know what they look like or where they live. Why is it such a big deal that it's On The Internet? Check diaryland sometime -- there's 50,000 sites (by both men and women) expelling the same sort of stuff in the same sort of way.

(and btw Prince, it was I crying misogyny)
posted by babylon at 2:53 PM on October 7, 2002

Now, if I go and write them up on the internet, I'm a harpy, a shew, pathetic, loser, can't communicate, man-hating she-bitch.

No, if you write things up behind someone's back without the confidence or respect to say it to them, you're pathetic, a loser, and can't communicate. The harpy, shrew, and man-hating she-bitch parts are optional. Those of you with low opinions of men/husbands in general probably deserve these bottom-of-the-barrel guys you're getting.
posted by anildash at 2:56 PM on October 7, 2002

Goodness, I must say that Metafilter is a far, far, far more misogynic society than I ever would have imagined.

what? you're calling this a woman-hating site because the guys here suggest communication instead of stomping angrily out the room because you're cold and you think that's your husband's fault??

those rants are pathetic, and grouping them together as women against men just makes the site even less credible. Women sometimes turn the thermostat down too low, too. I can appreciate having a chance to bitch about things and get it out of your system, but I'd still hope that on reflection it'd be clear it's not some integral male deficiency.
posted by mdn at 2:56 PM on October 7, 2002

babylon: Now, if I go and write them up on the internet, I'm a harpy, a shew, pathetic, loser, can't communicate, man-hating she-bitch.

Funny, a quick search of this thread indicates that only ONE of the aforementioned derogatory statements were used to describe the people creating the site in question. One might infer that this supposed misogynistic attitude is merely in your head.

On the other hand...

QUEEN OF THE HARPIES!! HERE'S YOUR CROWN, YOUR MAJESTY! QUEEN OF THE HARPIES!!
posted by Danelope at 2:58 PM on October 7, 2002

"Be warned kids. This is a marketing site." Anyone know what that's all about? I don't see any marketing

Marketing for divorce or the why's to staying single, is what I felt was marketed here, me me me.

All folks in relationship have faults that's why you pick-em. Or did someone pick your spouse for you. No one sex is better than the rest, unless you are truly celibate. When it comes to, they changed, well everything changes, or did you stay a child too.

And I do see lazy men, I'm home what's for dinner. But I have also had, I can't cook you'll have too, as my mother never wanted me to be a houswife.
posted by thomcatspike at 3:00 PM on October 7, 2002

heh. i just threw my sigoth out, and she doesn't even know what a blog is. (which was, come to think of it, part of the problem.) i note with smiling approval the way today's discarded newspaper occupies most of the couch, i sit in the living room surfing the web (not some designated computing-ghetto room) clad in only boxer shorts and looking forward to my dinner as the delicious aroma of kraft shells and cheese wafts in from the kitchen. later i'll do something really cool, like urinate with the bathroom door open.
paradise! ahh. free at last, free at last!
posted by quonsar at 3:00 PM on October 7, 2002

babylon: Please support your claim that Metafilter, as an institution, is misogynistic.
posted by PrinceValium at 3:02 PM on October 7, 2002

You all sound like you're married to each other!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 3:02 PM on October 7, 2002

I think the point is that good husbands do all these annoying things, and, if called on it, first, act offended, then, act contrite, and, finally, after a half-hearted (if that) effort at reform, keep on with the same exact behavior.

As much as I love my wife, and as hard as I try to be a good and useful husband, there are few of these posts that she couldn't have made about me. I regret that fact, but I also think that (paradoxically) if I all of sudden became a neat-freak never-snoring guy she'd think I was shortly to run off with some pretty young poolboy.
posted by MattD at 3:03 PM on October 7, 2002

babylon: You're all sensitive, crying, poetry-writing artist-men of the 21st century.

Reminds me of Christine Lavin's "Sensitive New Age Guys"
posted by gen at 3:03 PM on October 7, 2002

anil: (first let me mention that I've seen your work -- great stuff) Please read former posts by me at least (above, not in other threads). I love my boyfriend. I do everything possible to have excellent communication. I don't even have a website where I rant about his various failings as a man OR human being. What I am, and have been, suggesting, is that these are women who *know* that these are not items worth breaking up a marriage or relationship or family over, but they drive them bananas anyway. I doubt any of them takes their postings as seriously as this thread does. I doubt any of their *husbands* would take their postings as seriously as this thread does. The things they are describing are the call-the-mom-and-gripe things, not end-of-the-world things. And to judge their entire marriages/relationships/level-of-dysfunction/whatever over a pissy site borne out of the generic frustrations of any living arrangement seems to me to be a bit over-the-top.

MDN, Prince, please read the thread I linked to, as well as my postings here. I also don't believe that in any of the postings I read, anyway, these women were claiming to be the saint of saints, either. They're just venting.

MY problem is that a bunch of women getting together and venting about their SOs is apparently a gigantic deal and horrifically offensive to both men and the institution of marriage.
posted by babylon at 3:04 PM on October 7, 2002

Ooooohh, cat fight!
posted by me3dia at 3:04 PM on October 7, 2002

i just threw my sigoth out, and she doesn't even know what a blog is. (which was, come to think of it, part of the problem.)

If the fact that your girlfriend doesn't "understand" your little vanity site is causing relationship troubles, I'd say that it's time for you to get a bit of sunshine and fresh air. Choose life.
posted by oissubke at 3:06 PM on October 7, 2002

Babylon: I'm sorry, but I don't buy the "Everybody does it" argument. If you have a healthy relationship, you should be able to talk to your SO about anything. Venting is fine, but it shouldn't take the place of actual communication.
posted by Silune at 3:09 PM on October 7, 2002

MY problem is that a bunch of women getting together and venting about their SOs is apparently a gigantic deal and horrifically offensive to both men and the institution of marriage.

Or maybe you just wish that it mattered that much.
posted by Ty Webb at 3:11 PM on October 7, 2002

I think the point is that good husbands do all these annoying things, and, if called on it, first, act offended, then, act contrite, and, finally, after a half-hearted (if that) effort at reform, keep on with the same exact behavior.

That doesn't seem like the response of a good husband.
posted by Tenuki at 3:12 PM on October 7, 2002

The site itself doesn't so much offend me, as make me think anout how I would feel if I found out my girlfriend was keeping a site like this. Of course, if I was oblivious that my girlfriend was so unhappy with me, then I am to blame too, but one thing that makes our relationship strong is the willingness to talk about things. Of course there are emotional outbursts, but those are followed up with rational discussion.
posted by jonah at 3:16 PM on October 7, 2002

Folks, the point of that website most likely is that those women DID talk to their husbands, and it changed NOTHING. After awhile, one gets tired of acting like a premenstrual harpy and realizes that one's breath is wasted. These women are venting. I am not stating an opinion whether or not said website is a good idea; I am merely pointing out that what is being described therein is pretty typical male behavior. I know a lot more old wives than you people do.
Now, guys, I am not saying we women are the angels of the home-I am perfectly willing to concede we can be pains in the posterior as well. But we are discussing THIS website, and I simply wanted to point out that these complaints are sadly and annoyingly typical.

For the record I love my husband, he loves me, and he has his own spousal complaints.

One more thing-I would dearly love to meet these male paragons of virtue on this thread. I would also dearly love to run into them about ten years hence.

*evil chuckle*
posted by konolia at 3:17 PM on October 7, 2002

Silune: I'm not disputing that fact (though, *everything*?? Dunno about that. Nearly, sure. But about that time I peed my pants in front of the whole......er, never mind) What I'm saying is that we have no IDEA what these women's relationships are really like. The stuff they're venting about is normal. Perhaps they're walking away from the blog screen, taking a deep breath, and saying 'honey, you know what really bothers me?....' Perhaps they're not. Who are we to know, and who are we to judge their personalities, relationships, anything, from a few bits of ranty text? I know there have been times I've spewed un-warranted venom -- at friends, at the machine, at my mom -- and come back later to sigh and hug or whatever.

I mean....if you believe everything you read on the internet...the earth is hollow, 99% of the Earth's population is alien, we're all infected by body thetans, and every single country, activist group, person, and religion is 100% correct, good, and absolutely not at all whacko.

(I should have had the energy to make the above sentence into a pile of links, but I don't. Y'all know what I mean.)
posted by babylon at 3:18 PM on October 7, 2002

Could someone please give these women more mad props?
posted by Ty Webb at 3:19 PM on October 7, 2002

If the fact that your girlfriend doesn't "understand" your little vanity site is causing relationship troubles, I'd say that it's time for you to get a bit of sunshine and fresh air. Choose life.
i'd say that before you call my wife of 22 years a 'girlfriend' and go making other rash assumptions about matters of which you know little that you put on about 40 years and get a little seasoning! :-)
i also note that your own "little vanity site" could use some work, my guess is you've spent too much time in the sun! :-)
posted by quonsar at 3:21 PM on October 7, 2002

People in intimate relationships tend to drive each other crazy from time to time. They always have. Bitching about it on a website is probably better than putting arsenic in your partner's coffee.
posted by timeistight at 3:23 PM on October 7, 2002

stifford

thank you, thank you, thank you.

I have tears rolling down my face, I share an office with 3 other guys, each of whom has been (is) married(engaged) at some point, we are all killing ourselves...
posted by jkaczor at 3:24 PM on October 7, 2002

babylon: Pancake, I am peeing my pants on that one.
babylon: But about that time I peed my pants in front of the whole......er, never mind)

5 to 1 says babylon's boyfriend has a weblog about her incontinence problem...
posted by Danelope at 3:27 PM on October 7, 2002

Jeez the Gender relations are getting a might bit stretched on Mefi lately.

That being said I was alternatively laughing and wondering how in the hell some of those women put up with that crap on the originally linked site.

For the record I'm the one who generally wants to turn the heat up higher while my wife would prefer we save a buck or two (and the earth) if I just put on some fleece. I found it deliciously ironic to read the same story but with the genders reversed.

In other cases, (like the guy waking his wife up at 2am cause he couldn't find something to eat), I'm suprised that these some of these women haven't picked up a shoe/clock/dish and just clobbed the stupid SOB.

Yet in others (Complaining about snoring) I see a sad lack of sensitivity to their partner.

Personally looks to be a funny bit of online bitching. The kind that takes place in real life all the time.
posted by aaronscool at 3:30 PM on October 7, 2002

Could someone please give these women more mad props?

HA! These men are making them nag!
posted by jennyb at 3:32 PM on October 7, 2002

Babylon - "MY problem is that a bunch of women getting together and venting about their SOs is apparently a gigantic deal and horrifically offensive to both men and the institution of marriage."

I think the argument here is between those who feel that some petty venting over annoyances outside of S.O.'s earshot is an appropriate way to let off steam vs. those who feel it is a sign of a f****d up relationship. I don't see the mysogyny here. Now if you found another site which was a bunch of guys griping about their S.O.s, and the same posters who condemned the gripers this time turned around and supported the gripers next time, you might have a good basis for calling those posters mysogynistic.

Personally, I'm not into getting pissed off or whining about the petty crap, but apparently lots of people do and still have long-lasting, basically happy relationships, so who am I to judge?
posted by tdismukes at 3:34 PM on October 7, 2002

Ooooh, Dan, I do hope so, because I'd love to find it and get to ream him out about him publicly airing my yellow laundry (kidding, kidding, people!!). S'true, I have for years used the phrase 'peeing my pants' to relate 'my, that's freaking hilarious'. Happily, I'm not on the Depends *yet*, but if my bladder gets any smaller I don't think I can answer for it anymore, hee.

aaronscool: awfully sensible response there, man.

But yeah, lord, if my BF kept a weblog about the Irritating Things I Do -- crikey, we'd have several lengths of War and Peace by now. I mean, he's no saint himself, but I have a wallfull of awards for Pain-in-the-Asshood. I got the PITA blue ribbon at the 4F fair two years ago too!!
posted by babylon at 3:37 PM on October 7, 2002

Honest communication is a necessity for a decent relationship. Men aren't mind readers, women aren't mind readers. People who don't speak up for themselves and ask for what they want or need from their partner have no right to bitch, it's as simple as that. Why the hell anyone would want to be with someone they can't talk to is beyond me.

For the record my ex husband and his girlfriend had blogs where they discussed me, our divorce and our daughter. I happened upon it through Metafilter, because my ex linked it, duh, not realizing that I was on here too. Once I brought to his attention that I didn't want private information about our private lives posted in public, it was all removed.
posted by Woolcott'sKindredGal at 3:38 PM on October 7, 2002

Ok so fine, maybe they do have decent relationships where they vent online and eventually they talk to their SO about the problem. BUT, these chicks must be really uptight to let all these little things bother them to the point where they spend X amount of time typing the events into the pages, talking to each other about the events, ect...

I have a SO, she does some things that really tick me off (like through away a perfectly good tool because she thought another one worked). Oh f'in well! I am not going to focus on it for the next hour, whining to anyone that will listen. It isn't a huge deal, its just a tool that probably came for free with the chair. It is replaceable, my sanity is not. Live and let live you know? Maybe these chicks need to drink more often to loosen up!
posted by f00b4r at 3:45 PM on October 7, 2002

You know, I think I just ran into my wife on here, and I didnt know she had an account. Konolia, you're either living with me in Austin, TX, or you have a clone there...

(re: CPAP, taking up the bed, etc..)
posted by mrbill at 3:45 PM on October 7, 2002

Silune(way back there), I agree with you, but it's a delicate balance for most people to work out a communication that makes them feel good most of the time. I assure you the man has the hardest job in this balance. People tend to get in too big of a hurry to mate up. Women are especially guilty of being in a hurry. They marry for looks, money, social status and then find themselves in one big foul routine rut down the road being bored to tears with men they might think they love, but find out they really don't like much because there isn't any communication worthy enough to satisfy them. So they find other things to do like whining anonymously in a blog.

Personally I think it takes a man with a pit bull attitude to communicate with most women. Don't give up until you finally pull out all her, "Nothing's wrong!" into telling you exactly what's wrong. It usually all boils down to the damsel needing your undivided attention.
posted by oh posey at 3:50 PM on October 7, 2002

Okay, after looking through her comments, I *dont* think that Konolia is my wife, although they use a lot of the same phrases, etc. *whew* 8-)
If you're reading this, HI AMY!
posted by mrbill at 3:51 PM on October 7, 2002

Can we all just agree that human beings of either sex are intrinsically selfish (in other words, takes real work NOT to be) and that it is all too easy to "relax" and take advantage/take for granted one's significant other?

Oh and mrbill, tell Amy I said hello. *wink*
posted by konolia at 3:57 PM on October 7, 2002

I'm currently boyfriend-less so I'm running off memory, but I know when I go out with my girlfriends they talk about boyfriends and husbands like that. Doesn't mean they don't love them, they just like to get it off their chests. What I did notice is the site lacks the flip side to the conversation, where sometimes women get into discussions about which guy did most (romantic) (sexy) (kind) thing. That's usually part of it too - afterwards, when we feel badly for saying the nasty stuff.

The site just seemed funny to me, and I think the "Bitch make me a sandwich..." site just proves this kind of humour cuts both ways.
posted by Salmonberry at 4:01 PM on October 7, 2002

somedays I feel sad that I'm still (somehow) single. Somedays I feel pretty damn good about it.
*slams beer, throws socks on floor and turns the heat off*
posted by elwoodwiles at 4:01 PM on October 7, 2002

Wait a minute. The space shuttle just launched and weren't they going to make stops to Mars and Venus to sort everyone out?
posted by brent at 4:02 PM on October 7, 2002

i also note that your own "little vanity site" could use some work, my guess is you've spent too much time in the sun! :-)

My vanity site is empty because I had very little vanity to put there.
posted by oissubke at 4:13 PM on October 7, 2002

I've been a few situations - college, work and so forth - where I was the only male or one of very few males in a female group. They always seemed to be complaining about their SOs, their habits, thoughtlessness and gross stupidity. "Gosh," I thought, "What on earth attracted them to these monsters?"

It took me a while to work out that "The Sins and Foibles of the Boyfriend" is a staple general conversation among some women, sort of like sports are among a lot of men, a topic of conversation that can be counted on even when the participants appear to have nothing in common. Their partners aren't monsters, and they aren't hypercritical. It's not so much about venting as sharing, spinning stories out of their domestic life, which they want to discuss, but an ordinary, everyday relationship doesn't have that many laughs in it without a bit of spin. Needless to say, they were conversations I watched from the sidelines. This site is just a sort of extension of that.

Do men do the same thing? Don't know. I must admit I've not noticed it (and it would be as alien to me as the women's discussion).
posted by Grangousier at 4:16 PM on October 7, 2002

MDN, Prince, please read the thread I linked to, as well as my postings here.

if you're talking about the street harassment thread, that's a totally different issue, and I agree that the responses were surprisingly misogynistic on that thread. But it only dilutes the strength of your arguments over there to equate the reactions to this with those comments.

I also don't believe that in any of the postings I read, anyway, these women were claiming to be the saint of saints, either. They're just venting.

it's just there's no need to vent specifically against a gender - no need for "aren't men awful" rather than, "I'm annoyed with my SO." But yeah, that's what I said above, it's just a way to get it out of your system - and then hopefully afterward you can see you weren't completely reasonable yourself...
posted by mdn at 4:18 PM on October 7, 2002

Now I'm paranoid. Thanks, Konolia, for making the afternoon ... interesting. 8-)
posted by mrbill at 4:18 PM on October 7, 2002

Doesn't mean they don't love them, they just like to get it off their chests.

I tend to agree but referring to your S.O. as "Cheapie the Super Husband" and making comments like "Hey asshole. How about admitting you were wrong?" point out that there are probably some serious issues between the couple that need to be worked out. If that much resentment is left to fester it could turn into something very unhealthy.
posted by Tenuki at 4:22 PM on October 7, 2002

You're all sensitive, crying, poetry-writing artist-men of the 21st century.


actually, they're more like limericks.

and uh, i found the SIQ pretty funny. i don't know if that means i need to turn in my man card or something, but if i do, could someone let me know?
posted by fishfucker at 4:28 PM on October 7, 2002

Ok, I admit "Cheapie the Super Husband" could be hurtful. But I've also heard men refer to gf's as "Superbitch" and worse. I stick to my theory - it cuts both ways.

For all I know this could be a site visited solely by shrill harpies the likes of which I hope none of you date. But you will, you know you will......
posted by Salmonberry at 4:34 PM on October 7, 2002

I tend to agree but referring to your S.O. as "Cheapie the Super Husband" and making comments like "Hey asshole. How about admitting you were wrong?" point out that there are probably some serious issues between the couple that need to be worked out. If that much resentment is left to fester it could turn into something very unhealthy.

They might just think they're being funny and oh so clever by making it a competition to out-vitriol one another.

Can we all just agree that human beings of either sex are intrinsically selfish (in other words, takes real work NOT to be) and that it is all too easy to "relax" and take advantage/take for granted one's significant other?

After reading five or six of your messages that seem to insist that men can't be different than the corner you painted them into, and if they claim to be they won't be in ten years? I vote no.
posted by The God Complex at 4:52 PM on October 7, 2002

Well, G.C., maybe I'm just a jaded old biddy.
posted by konolia at 5:07 PM on October 7, 2002

I think there's way too much store being put into the content of the posts on the site and the actual feelings behind them. I mean, they've set up a blog on a fairly good premise and after they've got the few genuine rants out of their system they're just supposed to stop posting? Start making entries like "Got mildly ticked off by husband's refusal to fold sheets. But then went outside and forgot about it"? I don't think so. There's a lot of hyperbole going on there and it doesn't seem that hard to spot.
posted by MUD at 5:20 PM on October 7, 2002

I swear on a stack of Oprah magazines that in seven years of marriage and cohabitation, I have never done the "nothing" huff. (Honey, I love ya more than life itself, but if my tootsies are chilly, guess what, the heat's going ON.) Then again, I made certain to check off the "doesn't cause me severe aggravation" box BEFORE making that lifetime commitment. Don't ever let anyone tell you living together first is a bad idea...

But enough about me. These simps, I mean women, need to get a collective friggin' backbone and speak the hell up for once in their lives. I haven't seen so much passive aggression on a website since...dang, never.
posted by boomchicka at 5:22 PM on October 7, 2002

Some of the posts on the site remind me of the differences between high context and low context cultures. High context cultures such as Japan and Korea use a wide spectrum of communication techniques (body language, eye movements, etc) to get a message across, often avoiding saying directly what they mean. Low context cultures such as Germany, Sweden, England (US is in the middle) say exactly what they mean.

In my experience women tend to be high context, always hinting in some obscure way at what they're feeling/trying to say, while men (me) like to just say exactly what they're feeling/trying to say. This relates to my belief that women want men to "read their minds". All too often, in my experience, a woman will be upset and not say why when asked. The problem is we're supposed to already know, be perceptive. So men, start learning how to read context because good luck trying to get a woman to say what she means, except to maybe a blog broadcasted to the entire world (*spanish accent* I'M JUST KIDDING!).
posted by physics at 5:28 PM on October 7, 2002

FOAM EARPLUGS saved my marriage. There is no hell like being dog tired.... Right on Konolia! It took my experiencing how great I felt after a solid night's sleep one night in a hotel room on an infrequent business trip to realize that his snoring = my poor quality sleep = a large number of problems I'd never had before I started living with this otherwise terrific person. We had some bitter fights until I discovered the earplugs and now he wears them all the time too. Turns out my snoring was bothering him but he couldn't admit it without losing the argument!
posted by Sixtieslibber at 5:59 PM on October 7, 2002

babylon: though I'd like to point out that stifford's mention of this site (which, incidentally, I am getting a hearty chuckle out of) elicited no reverse response.

It's old news. I had linked that site before, and that was a double post.
posted by holloway at 6:23 PM on October 7, 2002

Look, if my wife's going to complain about me on an anonymous website, then I say "Good for her", as long as she then stops complaining to me.

Note: The above was a totally false humorous statement. In no way am I implying that my wife has ever, is currently, or ever intends to complain to me, as she knows I don't listen anyway.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:31 PM on October 7, 2002

I like the site, aside from this ditty, "I wake him up, wrestle my pillow back and lay in my normal 1/6th of the bed I'm normally allowed to have"...well, MAYBE IT'S BECAUSE HE'S TRYING TO CUDDLE UP TO YOU BECAUSE HE LOVES YOU SO MUCH AND HE JUST WANTS A HUG YES A HUG NOW AND THEN DID YOU EVER THINK OF THAT
posted by holloway at 6:31 PM on October 7, 2002

Usually they want more than a hug.

*wink*
posted by konolia at 6:33 PM on October 7, 2002

The vast majority of the worlds population would be lucky to live such charmed lives that they had time to obsess about the things that are in this website.
posted by revbrian at 6:43 PM on October 7, 2002

Babylon- Since you like the phrase so much, I should tell you that although it is now commonly accepted to use the past tense as present, the verb is actually 'hoise'. as in "I managed to hoise myself onto my own petard".
I have heard people use the form 'hoisted', which is redundant. Past tense is "He hoist himself onto his own petard when he admitted he ate the custard tart."
posted by oflinkey at 6:49 PM on October 7, 2002

I know a lot more old wives than you people do.

Shoot, the old husbands in this town wish that were true.

But yeah, it's possible they're being lovingly deprecating and just venting about annoyances. I'd like to think, though, that those are nuances of tone that someone on this thread would be able to point out in the text, instead of asserting that those kindnesses are there, even despite the absence of evidence to back it up.

In other words, I've seen good-natured ribbing, and that site ain't it. On the other hand, saying that you know my work and love it excuses all else. So I concede the argument. I'm a slut like that.
posted by anildash at 7:02 PM on October 7, 2002

I'm going to have to agree with the MeFi masses on this one and say that this site, even taking artistic hyperbole into consideration, just seems mean. Perhaps these women have been collectively pushed to the point where even the act of sharing a bed or someone making themselves a snack causes a stream of vitriol -- but if the tables were turned, and I found out my SO of eight years was writing stuff like this about me, I would be hurt and very dubious about the quality of our relationship. It's one thing to talk to your close friends negatively about your partner, but it's entirely another bag to post it on the Internet for strangers to read, even anonymously.
posted by jess at 7:13 PM on October 7, 2002

I'd be willing to bet those husbands would simply say "So what is she bitching about this time?". I honestly don't think they would care as long as no names were used.

I mean, if they can't figure out for themselves that waking a spouse to find them a snack at 2 am is obnoxious, then I doubt anything on that site would get a rise out of them. But I guess I'm cynical that way.

Isn't it interesting how this whole discussion has hit a nerve? and I do apologise to the men here who truly seem to be trying to be considerate partners. All I'm saying is that it's hard work, and some men (and women) have given up the effort....there really are a lot of men out there that are that clueless, but you are right-not all of them are.
posted by konolia at 7:45 PM on October 7, 2002

I must be having DNS problems tonight. I'm trying to load this man-hating, mean-spirited, relationship-damaging weblog I keep hearing about, but my browser comes up instead with a bitterly funny rant site that captures the bizarre state of perpetual loathing called marriage.

I don't care if you ever read the paper again. I don't care if you ever get another 3 hour nap as long as I live, I don't know where the heck your belt it, but if I did, I would strangle you with it.

My wife and I have a union founded on the principle that anyone else we might find would turn out to be just as aggravating. I thought we had one of those acerbic Everybody Loves Raymond romances, but from the responses in this thread, apparently we're cheating ourselves out of uniformly warm relationships with people who only complain in a constructive manner.
posted by rcade at 8:05 PM on October 7, 2002

I mean, if they can't figure out for themselves that waking a spouse to find them a snack at 2 am is obnoxious, then I doubt anything on that site would get a rise out of them. But I guess I'm cynical that way.

Where the hell do get this shit and why do you keep trying to apply it to the general population?

Usually they want more than a hug.

The girl would, too, if the guy was doing his job.

~wink~
posted by The God Complex at 8:29 PM on October 7, 2002

"Soap and toilet paper do not self-propogate"

i think i have a new sig.

that really really sums up so many different situations one encounters in daily dealing with other people.
posted by jeribus at 8:31 PM on October 7, 2002

My wife and I have a union founded on the principle that anyone else we might find would turn out to be just as aggravating.

Only sooner and probably unable to found such a principle with their partner if their life depended on it.

I'd say that was the basis for a marriage. The "happy" part is irrelevant. A marriage is, of itself, wonderful enough. Be grateful someone is prepared to be annoyed by you on a daily basis and equally annoy you in turn - it's a miracle. A crummy miracle, granted, but a miracle nonetheless. ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:39 PM on October 7, 2002

I barely read the site. I couldn't get past the "my chair squeaked and I asked him to fix it" bit. Aggression is best spent, IMO, playing with power tools. Anyone who can't tighten their own chair while their ass has nothing better to do need not be taken seriously.
posted by G_Ask at 9:00 PM on October 7, 2002

<long>

It's fairly self-evident that inability to positively, successfully communicate is a common problem in many, many relationships. This doesn't automatically make the people in those relationships destined to fail or bad people. It does make them people who need options to deal with the frustration that results.

1) You could attempt to talk about it. In many cases, it's a subject that's already been beaten bloody and still the problem remains. Excuse me if the rest of you are perfect with perfect lives, but this is yet another thing I believe is a fairly common complaint of both women and men. Logically, I'd imagine that the notion of discussing the matter yet again would feel futile. How many failed relationships cite reasons as "a hundred little things" that couldn't be fixed? Little things have a tendency to build up.

2) You could hold it inside and allow it to fester into resentment. As mentioned above, the little things build up. Ideally, getting them discussed and out of the way is the optimal solution, but it's obvious (for many tiny little reasons from fear of confrontation, to inability to verbalize the problem--hell, my own personal reasons involve the embarrassing tendency to burst into tears) that this ideal is not the common situation for many people.

If you're one of those people who can talk about anything and everything with your significant other, then yes, you are lucky, because that's not the standard. Differences in culture, differences in gender (and the roles generally involved therein), differences in opinions, beliefs, there are too many factors that figure into inability to successfully communicate within a relationship to discount it as a problem that only happens to "harpies, nags" and other people who'd "be better off alone." Frankly, that's an incredibly closed-minded and annoyingly sanctimonious way of looking at things.

The third option, the one these women have taken, is 3) getting support from other people who experience the same or similar. This isn't an uncommon tactic-- there are support groups for everything from furry fetishism to cult and rape survivors, and every shade in between.

Venting is natural. At one time, it was done in women's groups, sewing circles and over lunches out (and undoubtedly it still is). Or with men, at poker games, or at Home Improvement-style *grunt*-laced fishing trips. Ignore the bemusing stereotypes there long enough to realize that complaining about one's significant other has long, long been done, and will continue to be done, until the day the Borg comes along and assimilates us all into one emotionless, "one mind" collective.

With the internet making it so darn simple to connect with other people, web-sites devoted to bitching about everything, including what someone else might consider "little things," are inevitable. Amusing that some (the late, great, Kvetch) are praised and missed when they're gone, but others (see topic above) are diced apart, their participants labelled a variety of things which make the name-callers seem far more miserable and mean-tempered than they--and the vitriol flowed just as freely at Kvetch, it was simply spread across a variety of genres.

I doubt these same people would be castigated for spilling all of this to their closest friend(s), relatives, and/or a therapist or relationship counselor. Don't forget to rail at all the authors and singers who make best-selling material about this same thing.

If you've never complained about someone "behind their back," be it to another friend, a relative, or on your own personal site... Well then, I suggest a strong future in Catholicism. They're always in need of another Saint.

That, or you're lying through your teeth.

</long>
posted by precocious at 9:13 PM on October 7, 2002

"state of perpetual loathing", "the "happy" part is irrelevant"?!

I recently got married, I'm blissfully happy, my husband and I are pretty good communicators, I think. But I'll tell you, I was happy as a single person, and I'd jump right back into being single in a heartbeat sooner than live in a marriage like the ones that have been described in this thread and on the linked site. Jebus, I'm sure you all must get something out of your relationships or you wouldn't still be in them, but...daaaaaaaaaamn. No thank you.

Oh, and having had a SO who snored, trust me, even though you know it's not their fault, that doesn't change the fact that all you can think about at three am is that the reason you can't sleep is because they can.
posted by biscotti at 9:31 PM on October 7, 2002

No link to DR. FUCKING PHIL??!!! These obviously aren't *real* women...
posted by blackholebrain at 10:26 PM on October 7, 2002

Then again, as long as there are women out there looking to blow off *that* much steam, here are a few ready-to-register, alternative domains to help out:

1. getyourownfuckingbeer.com
   
2. makeyourownfuckingsupper.com
   
3. birthyourowndamnbaby.com
   
4. swallowyourownfuckingcum.com
   
5. lickyourowndamnass.com
   
6. suckyourownfuckingcock.com
   
7. fuckyourowndamnmouth.com
   

posted by blackholebrain at 10:46 PM on October 7, 2002

How 'bout worry about your racist father instead.com?
posted by anildash at 11:51 PM on October 7, 2002

I was wondering if anyone else noticed that one, Anil. I was offput by how glibly it was thrown out there until I thought about the site as a whole.

I've been married for more than 14 years. When I get angry enough at my husband to need to rant, it's over something more crucial than some clothes on the floor or dishes sitting around. If these women can work up heads of steam this hard over these little daily piffles, I would hate to see the volume of the ranting that one of these women could kick up if a husband forgot to pick up the kids from soccer and left them sitting there with the coach for 45 minutes (been there) or when he goes in her purse one morning, gets her wallet out and helps himself to all of her cash so that he can gas up his truck on the way to work (seen that). They ain't seen nothin' yet.
posted by Dreama at 1:30 AM on October 8, 2002

precocious - The third option, the one these women have taken, is 3) getting support from other people who experience the same or similar.

That is inaccurate. Attacking your own mate is not the same as providing support to a friend. One is a selfish act of petty vengeance, the other is a selfless act of giving. Not quite the same thing.
posted by NortonDC at 5:14 AM on October 8, 2002

Nice save, mr_crash_davis - I thought you were toast for a second there. You just know that if you said that seriously, your wife would find out and that would be the end of you.

My wife and I have a union founded on the principle that anyone else we might find would turn out to be just as aggravating.

Sounds like the perfect basis for a long-lasting relationship to me.
posted by dg at 5:20 AM on October 8, 2002

A lot of the recently married and single people participating in this discussion appear to consider harmless kvetching about your spouse a signifier of a deeper problem.

Wait until you've been married long enough to recognize that some annoyances about your spouse are never going to change, because people will always revert to their real personalities at some point after the honeymoon period of a relationship wears off. (When I began dating my wife, I spent a year convincing her I was completely disinterested in sports.)

Even if you've lucked into a disproportionately well-adjusted and considerate spouse, there's always the other group of people you married along with that person: the relatives.

I love being married, and feel like I did pretty well for myself. That doesn't change the fact that my wife and I often annoy the hell out of each other. There are some moments I would not feel comfortable standing in front of her on a subway platform (such as the day I went to CompUSA for a box of CD-Rs and came home with a $200 Nintendo GameCube and $300 of add-ons "for the kids").

Personally, I think it's more healthy to acknowledge that a committed-for-life relationship is a pain in the ass than to pretend that it's wall-to-wall storybook romance.

But what do I know? From half of the comments here, it appears that I should be spending this morning packing my bags.
posted by rcade at 5:48 AM on October 8, 2002

From the site in question:

As I read the nasty comments I really had to laugh, I agree that most of the comments made were by inexperienced teens who have never had a real relationship and have no idea what it's like to be in one.

I don't rant and whine or "bitch" because I hate my husband and I'm miserable. I couldn't be happier in my marriage. We all get into our little tifs and that's what this site is about.

From a comment to one of my posts:

Where the hell do get this shit and why do you keep trying to apply it to the general population?

Just called Real Life, hon. If you still disagree with me ten years from now, point taken.
No hard feelings, though.
posted by konolia at 6:43 AM on October 8, 2002

I thought quonsar seemed a lot more relaxed lately.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:24 AM on October 8, 2002

An awful lot of detractors of the site mention the Thermostat story, and I've seen very few MFers rush to theBetterHalf's defense. Can I get a show of hands-- who is sympathetic to the protagonist of this story?

Personally, I would be very upset to find that my SO of eight years was referring to me as Cheapie the Super Husband and asshole. I'm sure she would feel the same if she heard me refering to her similarly.
posted by skryche at 7:28 AM on October 8, 2002

So apparently, whether caused by jonah's post, or merely tracked by jonah, Pickupyourowndamnsocks.com has become the meme of the moment and has been picked up by a few other 'hub' sites.

Because of this I'll try to assume some of the anonymous comments being posted on 'Socks' aren't coming from MeFiers. However, now that attention is being cast at both their site, and at this thread, it'd be nice to carry on the discussion on both places with a modicum of respect and decorum.

Comments like:

You sound like a real bitch. I can't wait to read in the paper about your husband killing you, hopefully in the most painful manner possible. Go to hell, you worthless cunt!

are disgusting and add nothing to what could be an interesting dialog.
posted by KnitWit at 8:02 AM on October 8, 2002

I agree with KnitWit. My intention of the post was to start a discussion of what you would do if you found out your S.O. was keeping a public journal like this. I, for one, would be very hurt. I'd be hurt that there were feelings being held in; and if there was discussion going on, I'd be hurt that there is this open record of conflict with no words of resolution.

I have a hard time accepting that this site is a good thing for a relationship, but different people have different thoughts about what makes a good relationship.

I also notice that the "about" section of the site from this:

because sometimes you just need to whine. anonymously. and since those significant others all read our blogs, we just need a safe space they don't know about!

To this:

because sometimes you just need to whine. anonymously.

It is a public site, if it was just for the members, they could easily password protect it, the administrators obviously have web skills. This almost brings up another discussion, if you open up a web site for anyone to view, do you have any expectation of limiting readership?
posted by jonah at 8:20 AM on October 8, 2002

Well, I would hope it would be educational.

I am going to take my husband to this site. He is a nice man but can be really clueless about some of this stuff, and I think if he can see how other women react to what their mates do (some of which he is guilty of, poor thing) it would give him an education. Guys always seem to be able to "hear" this sort of thing better when it is someone besides the spouse saying it.

Personally, I can't see myself posting on this kind of site because of the snowball effect-I think I'd get angrier than the situation warranted if I had a bunch of gals egging me on re my husband's transgressions.

Do I contradict myself? Go read Walt Whitman and get over it.
posted by konolia at 8:40 AM on October 8, 2002

Actually I'm surprised my girlfriend hasn't asked to join the site as both of us regularly read and laugh about it. But if she were to join such a group I'd be perfectly okay with it.

As I said before, I don't think any of the members of the site are out to publicly crucify their SOs. In fact, judging by the defenses posted by the members in the past day, many of their SOs do know about the site, and probably laugh about it as much as anyone else reading it would.

It's clear to me that most of these women are devoted partners dedicated to open communication with their SOs. They're just bloggers who'd just like to have the cathartic release of venting to a sympathetic ear (or several thousand sympathetic ears) about their pet peeves. They seem to do so anonymously away from their own sites, to avoid friends and co-workers from teasing the couple later on about how he hogs the covers at night, not necessarily to hide their snarky comments from their SOs.

It strikes me as the Internet edition of those neighborhood coffee circle discussions my mom has with her friends. Getting it off their chests in the company of friends rather that 'continually nagging' their partners.

The part I do agree with jonah (and Konolia mentions it as well) is the lack of posted conflict resolution. With my mom and her friends, they see each other away from the coffee table, and see that their relationships are otherwise healthy.

While I understand that this site is reserved for the complaints only, to a reader who may not see the other side, know the couple, or read the other blogs, the overall tone of the writing is one of increasing venom and disenchantment. We have to assume it's there otherwise they wouldn't be in the relationships.

The writers contribute to the site knowing their complaints will be heard and mirrored by others. What I don't think they'd counted on was other readers becoming invested in the stories and want to hear how they end.
posted by KnitWit at 9:51 AM on October 8, 2002

I forwarded this link to my lovely wife and she responded by asking me to post the following:


I have long been an admirer of MeFi and the intellectual banter that goes on here. However I was much dismayed by the lack of common sense that accompanied the link to pickupyourowndamnsocks.com. Like the women on this site, I am married to a human being that is by nature imperfect. And like the women on this site, I am frustrated by his selfishness, lack of consideration, disrespect, and laziness. And like the women on this site, all the women I interact with feel this way on some level.

When I get my hair cut, my hairdresser complains that on a day when she’s running behind, overbooked, and not feeling well, her husband interrupts her work to say he loves and misses her. When I have coffee with my girlfriends, they complain that their SO’s can’t spare the time away from the game to sit in the kitchen and chat with them while they prepare dinner (for the umpteenth time) for him! When I get groceries, the cashier apologizes to me for being gruff and explains that her husband forgot to pick up the dry cleaning from the cleaners (that he passes by everyday), so on her way home, after 10 hours on her feet, she has to go 15 minutes out of the way to get his clothes because he is too tired to do it now that he’s home. Of course, with each of these comments, I have my own. He never picks up his socks (yes, it’s true!), he prefers the company of the internet to mine, he doesn’t do anything to help around the house, he expects me to hold a full time job, do all the household chores, run all his errands, and have lunch with his mother every weekend. Meanwhile, I must be cheerful, well manicured, and practically perfect for that party with his boss.

Okay, so we complain. Maybe it isn’t constructive. Maybe it isn’t mature. Maybe it isn’t even acceptable. But the truth is that during every moment of bitching, there is an underlying love that never fades. Even when my husband makes me the sickest, I love him more than I ever thought possible. I have told him to pick up his socks, but it’s the carefree child in him that never seems to remember. I have asked him to spend less time online and more time with me, but it’s the knowledge seeker in him that just can’t. I have asked him to wash dishes and clean the bathroom from time to time, but it’s the dedicated employee in him that won’t allow him the time. And I have shared with him the stress of having to be the perfect social wife, but it’s his view of me as already perfect that keeps him from understanding. I fell in love with him because of the carefree child within him, his constant quest for knowledge, his dedication, and his rose colored view of me. I don’t want these traits to change or to go away so I try not to gripe too much about them. I don’t want him to become a mindless drone of the perfect husband because I love him too much the way he is. But that doesn’t keep me from becoming frustrated, stressed, or angry at times.

The women on this site likely feel the same way. They want a place that allows them the opportunity to release these negative feelings without damaging their spouse or the feelings their family and friends have toward this spouse. Griping to one’s SO can be hurtful, vindictive, and come across as simple nagging. Venting to friends is often dangerous because their feelings toward your SO grow more and more negative as their natural instinct is to protect you. Complaining to family is even more treacherous for similar reasons. Pickupyourowndamnsocks.com allows these women a place to shed these feelings and release this anger without hurting anyone. They still love their SO’s and they are just trying to deal with these feelings of anger and frustration in the most responsible, least damaging way they know how.
posted by ajr at 10:49 AM on October 8, 2002

rcade- Wait until you've been married long enough to recognize that some annoyances about your spouse are never going to change, because people will always revert to their real personalities at some point after the honeymoon period of a relationship wears off. (When I began dating my wife, I spent a year convincing her I was completely disinterested in sports.)

Yep. You can decide to accept the fact that your spouse can't change (not won't change) who they are or you can decide that you really don't want to be with that person. The women on the site are either at a stage in their relationships where they have fully accepted their husbands and honestly "just need to vent the frustration", or they're in the more dangerous stage of beginning to realize they actually can't accept their husbands the way they are (ie. post-reversion to real personality), in which case all the "constructive venting" becomes a form of denial. If this is the case, you would argue that they shouldn't have been married in the first place and gotten to know "the real REAL person" first, but anyone who's been married for any length of time knows it's just not that simple.

I think the site is a really good idea, and I'm a snoring ex-husband who played video games too much. If a weblog gets you closer to realizing what's truly in your heart, blog on.
posted by JAcrimonaut at 11:04 AM on October 8, 2002

Where the hell do get this shit and why do you keep trying to apply it to the general population?

Just called Real Life, hon. If you still disagree with me ten years from now, point taken.
No hard feelings, though.

Your life experience is not everybody's life experience, hon. This site's about as insiteful and funny as The Lockhorns comic strip.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 11:40 AM on October 8, 2002

Insightful. Dammit.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 11:40 AM on October 8, 2002

I agree with Mud and others here about the fact that not all of these women are really bashing but just jabbing at their husbands. Some of the tales were really no big deal from any side, just bla bha blah. Yet I hope this is the case just some tasteless venting, as I pointed above in a comment on how the lady basically pancaked herself by showing herself in the wrong too. But we may have pancaked our own conclusions by not seeing what the post by Jonah was about, a bloggers use of a blog to cry for help.

The site is home to a group of woman, many minds. Maybe I should have been discussing more how this blog is a “Message in a Bottle”. A person stranded on an island, would have several ways to ask for help. One, build a fire to signal a ship. Well, why not burn down the whole forest to signal the world, because if no one saw it you would pancake yourself with no more wood to burn a second signal fire or for cooking. So you put a cry for help in a bottle and send the message on its way and hope help comes to you.

But in our humor and fun we read it and stuck the message back in the bottle and slammed the bottle thus breaking the vessel the message came in then wasting their cry for help. Sometimes in a bad marriage folks stay for whatever reasons. Some, because for the children, others financial reasons or just basic human insecurities that allow ourselves to be mentally stuck in a relationship. Help could be just the crutch of another woman telling how she felt divorce was not an option because of no working experience and the responsibility of kids. But with support she is now a professional also able to fit work and a relationship with the kids together. Well the ex-hubby, who cares, as she is financially better off with out him. See the women tell us their motive for the site, to vent, yet that can be a cry for help.

Remember the Beaver; well no home is that perfect, yet looks can be deceiving. Doors close, window have their blinds drawn shut and the deception begins, no one but the occupants know the truth, sometimes not even the occupants. There are folks in the world who have not been shown what is to most, basic human decency, so what they don't know does affect them.

Well here is my reply for help and for any spouse of any sex. Divorce; Abuse; Building a Better Marriage; or Should I stay or go. I hope all your islands can be paridise not a survivor story.
posted by thomcatspike at 12:25 PM on October 8, 2002

How much do you want to bet this site and thread will get a mention in 'The Guardian' on Saturday. Hey Bibi!
posted by feelinglistless at 1:49 PM on October 8, 2002

How 'bout worry about your racist father instead.com?

After reading the story Anil linked to, let me be the first to say: I don't get what's racist (or for that matter father) about it.
posted by kindall at 2:41 PM on October 8, 2002

Uh, last time I checked, I was, as my Father used to jokingly say, free, white and 21.
That's probably it. It's not quite crossburningly rascist, but it's not the most sensitive phrase (and I don't think I've heard anyone outside of a 1930s movie use it).
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 2:48 PM on October 8, 2002

"Free white and 21" is still used extensively around here. My parents say it but not in front of black people.
posted by konolia at 4:11 PM on October 8, 2002

I have a much better idea, konolia. If I've degenerate to the point of waking my wife/gf up in the middle of the night and asking her to make me a snack, I'll contact you so you can come put me out of my misery—and, more importantly, it'll put my wife/gf out of hers.

To think that every relationship is going to fall to the point of fulfilling every Married With Children stereotype you can come up with is foolish. I certainly hope there's more to your relationship with your husband than that.
posted by The God Complex at 4:27 PM on October 8, 2002

+d.
posted by The God Complex at 4:29 PM on October 8, 2002

Anyone get this comment and the one that lead to it.
It went over my head until I looked down, not at my feet down below the comment window. Look at Trackback posts, it tells all. Boy talk about follow up, thanks jonah and snazzkat for the works.

This has to be a great post as far as we even get to hear the rest of the story.
posted by thomcatspike at 4:43 PM on October 8, 2002

How much do you want to bet this site and thread will get a mention in 'The Guardian' on Saturday. Hey Bibi!

Toby Manhire actually. Here is what he wrote in The Guardian this morning:

Pick Up Your Own Dawn Socks is a weblog for those wishing to vent spleen. Its contributors? “Wives and girlfriends.” No prizes for guessing who is on the receiving end. “Sometimes you just need to whine, anonymously,” says the site, “and since those significant others all read our blogs, we just need a safe space they don’t know about.”

Except now they know. A mention of the site at Metafilter prompted a deluge of comments. Many thought the site was funny or helpful, but others were appalled by the diarists, who were branded “bitter”, “obsessive-compulsive” and “friggin’ yentas”.

The most furious, inevitably, made their way to the blog itself, where they logged on and upped the invective way beyond the usual complaints. Eventually the Pick Up Your Own site administrator intervened: “I don’t agree with censoring people,” she said in a Tuesday post, “but when people comment things like, ‘You sound like a real bitch. I can’t wait to read in the paper about your husband killing you, hopefully in the most painful way possible….’ I have serious issues…. So, as much as I hate to do it, I will delete any comments that are harmful to this site, a poster, or another commenter… I will happily leave anything that disagrees with this site or a post – after all, that’s what the internet is for: sharing and arguing and discussing intelligently.”

Actually, I thought the above discussion was mostly quite constructive ...
posted by feelinglistless at 6:32 AM on October 12, 2002

let me be the first to say: I don't get what's racist

let you be the last as well. seems pretty obvious to me.
posted by mdn at 8:12 PM on October 12, 2002

I grew up in the South but never heard that expression. If I understand it correctly, "free white and 21" means you should stop complaining because you have unfettered opportunity thanks to your age and race.

I can see why that's perceived as racist, but isn't it an acknowledgement of something white people are faulted for not recognizing -- the fact that we have opportunities available to us that are not always available to others?
posted by rcade at 8:21 PM on October 12, 2002

The male alternative: BuyYourOwnDamnTampons.com
posted by packphour at 11:39 AM on October 23, 2002