Russian gas clues point to cocktail.

October 30, 2002 9:35 AM

Russian gas clues point to cocktail. Events show that the Russians were organized to respond to various terrorist eventualities, but not prepared well enough to take into consideration the lateral side effects. I wonder how this scenerio would have played in the US?
posted by semmi (23 comments total)

Likely the fear of a lawsuit would have prevented any action from being taken at all, and then a whole lot of people would have wound up dead when the terrorists started shooting.

And then would come the conspiracy theories...
posted by Cyrano at 9:43 AM on October 30, 2002

I wonder how this scenerio would have played in the US?

Easy:

The White House wouldn't say anything about the event. Jesse Jackson would condemn them for not using the Black Plague. The ACLU would praise them for their diversity in selection of gasses. The NRA would criticize them for not having relied on good old fashioned firepower. CNN would show a report about terrorists' "struggle for freedom". Fox would present expert speculation that the gas was really Anthrax. The New York Times would criticize Israel for existing during the attacks. 80% of the American population would never know that it happened, not because of a cover-up, but because it happened during Friends or football. Self-proclaimed representatives of the religious right would proclaim it proof that God hates America's sinfulness. The Democrats would blame it on Republican economic policies. Republicans would blame it on Democrats' tolerance policies. Bruce Springsteen would write a song about it that will become a hit in Berlin, but leave young Americans asking, "Who?" The Onion would have a special news bulletin about rebels being defeated by the noxious effects of the next door Annual Texas Bean Cookoff. The New Scientist would have a report about how the gas cocktail can be used to increase your sex drive and cure cancer, but only if we legalize marijuana. Left wing bloggers would hold it up as evidence that we shouldn't go to war in Iraq, and right wing bloggers would hold it up as evidence that we should.

And the Mormon MeFier? Well...he'd just sit back and watch.
posted by oissubke at 10:07 AM on October 30, 2002

I wonder how this scenerio would have played in the US?

I don't know.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 10:15 AM on October 30, 2002

"And the Mormon MeFier? Well...he'd just sit back and watch."

I'm pretty sure that there's an MMC* here, oissubke. I don't think you're the Lone Missionary.

*Mefi Mormon Cabal.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 10:18 AM on October 30, 2002

I heard on NPR this morning that a Russian official actually identified the gas on Russian Television today - it was based on fentanyl, like most are presuming. (on preview - just found a link from abcnews)
posted by kokogiak at 10:35 AM on October 30, 2002

I wonder how this scenerio would have played in the US?

i liked oissubke's scenario, but he forgot one thing: months later, there would still have been no substantive investigation, and no one would have been fired for anything.
posted by Ty Webb at 11:12 AM on October 30, 2002

Jesse Jackson would condemn them for not using the Black Plague.

Just joking again, I see. Well, at least you're consistent.
posted by y2karl at 11:16 AM on October 30, 2002

What's your favorite cocktail?
posted by sad_otter at 11:33 AM on October 30, 2002

The idea of a MeFi Mormon Cabal scares me. Alot.
posted by maniactown at 11:36 AM on October 30, 2002

y2karl: Just joking again, I see. Well, at least you're consistent.

Huh?

maniactown: The idea of a MeFi Mormon Cabal scares me. Alot.

Why?
posted by oissubke at 11:40 AM on October 30, 2002

Does this mean domestic terrorists just need to knock over a hospital to carry out a nasty -- and lethal -- attack?
posted by minnesotaj at 11:42 AM on October 30, 2002

Does this mean domestic terrorists just need to knock over a hospital to carry out a nasty -- and lethal -- attack?

Don't even have to do that. It's easy enough with a trip to the drug store. There are plenty of publically-available chemicals that can be put to very nasty use.
posted by oissubke at 11:46 AM on October 30, 2002

I wonder how this scenerio would have played in the US?

I don't know. (Link points to ATF bumbling at Waco)
- The Jesse Helms

Firstly, the main problem with this is that the ATF wouldn't handle such a crisis. Secondly, don't paint all federal law enforcement agencies, or all of their employees with such a broad brush. It's no different than calling all of Arthur Andersen or Enron corrupt when the real fault lies with a handful of people.
posted by CoolHandPuke at 11:54 AM on October 30, 2002

(Link points to ATF bumbling at Waco)

Bumbling is a wonderful euphemism for murder.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 11:58 AM on October 30, 2002

Bumbling is a wonderful euphemism for murder.

Because we all know that your average ATF agent gets a kick out of murdering innocent civilians who aren't doing anything wrong. That's why they become law enforcement officers.
posted by oissubke at 12:02 PM on October 30, 2002

Mr. Helms got it in one. The Waco parallel is very apt, I think. The Davidians were not even threatening to kill their "hostages".

What happens when terrorists will not negotiate? Would any US agency get approval to use an agent that has a 1 in 8 kill rate? What do the authorities do when the terrorists start killing hostages? What would have happened in an assault if the terrorists had managed to set off their bombs? Would only 117 died?
posted by bonehead at 12:13 PM on October 30, 2002

(Link points to ATF bumbling at Waco)

Bumbling is a wonderful euphemism for murder.

Yeah, you're right, the murder of four ATF agents who were only doing their job, legally serving a warrant for a weapons stockpiling, child molesting, egomaniac. It was the wackjobs that murdered them, but you'll get no argument out of me that it was the planning that led up to it.

Mr. Helms got it in one. The Waco parallel is very apt

Wrong. The ATF handled the Waco raid due to the weapons involved. They would not handle a situation similar to the one in Russia. And how can you say the wackjobs had hostages, show me direct proof of hostages at Waco that paralell the ones in Moscow. This is apples and oranges folks. Perhaps Entebbe would be more appropriate.
posted by CoolHandPuke at 12:39 PM on October 30, 2002

The fact that so few died is the reason why the Russian response was justified. When I first heard about the hostage situation, my first thought was that all the hostages were as good as dead. For those that denounce Putin's tactics, I'd like to know what they would have done instead, given that giving in to the terrorists demands was untenable.
posted by salmacis at 2:56 PM on October 30, 2002

To stop murdering and raping people is untenable?
The US would have clusterfucked the situation like most authorities do, in the history of hostage taking there are very few successful responses. For all the supposed cruelity
of the Chechens, I think only three hostages were killed by gunfire. The whole situation reminds me more of Attica than anything else.
posted by joemeek at 3:36 PM on October 30, 2002

The U.S would send helicopters packed with troops out into the desert in the most roundabout route they could find to the hostage site, whereupon all the helicopters would crash because they fitted with the right engine components. All the while a group of rangers would "capture" a football stadium in the hope that the useless helicopters could evacuate the hostages from there.

Oh wait. That already happened in Iran.
posted by dazed_one at 4:11 PM on October 30, 2002

The U.S would send helicopters packed with troops out into the desert in the most roundabout route they could find to the hostage site,

There was a reason to do this and it was far from the 'most roundabout route'

whereupon all the helicopters would crash because they fitted with the right engine components.

Wrong again. All the helicopters did not crash, in fact only one crashed and NOT as a result of engine components.

All the while a group of rangers would "capture" a football stadium in the hope that the useless helicopters could evacuate the hostages from there.

Wrong yet again, Rangers were in a support role, the operation was led by Delta Force.
posted by CoolHandPuke at 4:41 PM on October 30, 2002

The fact that so few died is the reason why the Russian response was justified.


If the U.S. acted in exactly the same way, you would not hear a statement like that.
posted by Recockulous at 5:11 PM on October 30, 2002

Don't know if anyone's still reading this thread, but the fine Russian journalist Masha Gessen has interesting things to say in today's NY Times.
posted by languagehat at 10:16 AM on November 1, 2002