Skip

Emergency War Surgery.
November 7, 2002 12:44 AM   Subscribe

Emergency War Surgery. It's been said that the only people eager for war are those who have never seen it. The Virtual Naval Hospital describes in some detail the toll of modern warfare on the human body.
posted by moonbiter (25 comments total)

 
The first cut is the deepest.
posted by allaboutgeorge at 2:35 AM on November 7, 2002


I found the "illustration" section to be the most telling - and scary (but not gory). Why do so many bullets turn backwards ("yaw") once they have penetrated the body?
posted by ugly_n_sticky at 3:27 AM on November 7, 2002


Good site, but the premise of your FPP is underhanded and offensive. Maybe people have seen pictures of what Saddam Hussein did to the Kurds, and imagine what he might to us; and maybe people saw the World Trade Center; and think a pair of wars is the least evil.
posted by ParisParamus at 3:32 AM on November 7, 2002


The tone of the front page post is neither underhanded, nor offensive. You are putting words in moonbiter's mouth. The link is interesting and stands on it's own merit. I found it interesting and non-political. Relax.

Good question ugly... must be physics, and don't think the experts who designed these weapons didn't put some thought into it. I bet there are offices full of people sitting around designing "better" bullets. Maybe a good question is why are there scores of people figuring this stuff out? What does that say about the species?

Cool link. Fascniating information.
posted by internook at 4:33 AM on November 7, 2002


Have to agree - can't see how the fpp would be underhanded or offensive. Where do be end? "We all saw what the US did in vietnam with chemicals", "look what the russians last month with the hostages" - quoting the Kurd gas incident in a reply to this post is more trolling than the fpp ever was imho.... Iraq wasn't mentioned, why raise it?

re the links, nice to see things have moved on since M*A*S*H days....!
posted by brettski at 5:18 AM on November 7, 2002


I work in an operating room, looking at this looks like another day at work . . .
posted by RunsWithBandageScissors at 5:45 AM on November 7, 2002


Why raise it? Because I sick of reading about "chickenhawks."

Maybe I overreacted. I apologize.
posted by ParisParamus at 5:52 AM on November 7, 2002


Why do so many bullets turn backwards ("yaw") once they have penetrated the body?

IIRC, this is because a rifle bullet is stable when fired because it spins on it's long axisdue to rifling. When a rifle bullet enters the body, this spin is greatly reduced due to the increased density of the medium it is passing through. Once it is not spinning, a bullet becomes unstable, and yaws 180 degrees so that it is traveling back-end first (which is a more stable profile for the bullet because of the fact that they have more mass at the back than the front).

the premise of your FPP is underhanded and offensive.

I'm sorry that you find it underhanded and offensive.

In my defense, I believe you are assigning an me an agenda when I had none.

I found this site a few years ago and thought it interesting and a good source of knowledge. Last night, when I decided that I wanted to post something interesting and new to Metafilter that wasn't news or politics, and I thought this fit the bill.
posted by moonbiter at 5:59 AM on November 7, 2002


Me write bad. Me no preview good. Me stop writing now.
posted by moonbiter at 6:02 AM on November 7, 2002


War may take its toll on the human body, but let us not forget that it is one of the most glorious and elevating acts of the human spirit. There is adventure and honor to be found in it that is so often sadly lacking in this our modern world.
posted by shabrem at 8:17 AM on November 7, 2002


Is he kidding?
posted by hincandenza at 8:37 AM on November 7, 2002


moonbiter : It's quite an extraordinary digital library which probably will remain unknown to us (or civilians) here if not for your "last night". I'm amazed that such useful detailed information meant for war-time application is available for public knowledge and not on need-to-know basis. Although the medical stuff contained in there are not top secrets, the contents (see sitemap ) look well-researched and compiled to address specific medical conditions faced by the military (naval?), which the military may not want its adversaries to know too much about.
posted by taratan at 8:39 AM on November 7, 2002


War! Wooo, war! Gimme some war! I need some elevation!
posted by COBRA! at 8:39 AM on November 7, 2002


I can think of nothing more glorious and elevating than the exteriorization of a colon wound.
posted by tpl1212 at 8:44 AM on November 7, 2002


It's been said that the only people eager for war are those who have never seen it.

While this may be true, it is also true that the only people eager to allow free reign to a tyrannical dictatorship are those who have never been affected by one.
posted by semmi at 8:55 AM on November 7, 2002




While this may be true, it is also true that the only people eager to allow free reign to a tyrannical dictatorship are those who have never been affected by one

I don't disagree with this.

There have been several comments like this now so let me try to clear this up.

This post had no agenda behind it. I thought the VNH site was informative, and might be of interest to others. Perhaps I am guilty of trying to be poetic on the FPP, but I wasn't trying to make some political statement.

True, I think that war is a terrible thing that should be avoided whenever possible. However, I think it is sometimes necessary and the only solution to a problem.

True, I am opposed to the US invading Iraq -- but this is because I think it is strategically a bad idea that will only exacerbate other problems we face.

True, I do believe that people who are eager for war are either dysfunctional, don't really understand it, or have never experienced it. I hold this belief based on conversation with and readings of people who have experienced it. However, I am not saying that those who have decided to become soldiers are wrong to have done so. They are a necessary and vital part to a functional society.

Okay?
posted by moonbiter at 9:35 AM on November 7, 2002


Yeah, man. What ever happened to posting a link cause it's a good link? Thanks, moonbiter, for a great post.
posted by agregoli at 10:07 AM on November 7, 2002


Perhaps the VNH's "Treatment of Biological Warfare Agent Casualties" would serve as a better warmonger deterrent.
posted by hatutah at 11:42 AM on November 7, 2002


True, I do believe that people who are eager for war are either dysfunctional, don't really understand it, or have never experienced it. I hold this belief based on conversation with and readings of people who have experienced it.

I suppose my question is, what do you mean by "people eager for war?" I don't know anybody who is eager for war outside of some serious sociopaths. I fully support the direction our government is taking with regards to Iraq but to say that I am "eager for war" is entirely false. I dread war and what it produces but I also understand what Hussein and his ilk view as their vision of the future. Any tactician would rather fight them now on our terms than fight them later on theirs...waiting will only produce a buildup that will result in more of what is shown in this link and not less.
posted by RevGreg at 12:27 PM on November 7, 2002


I suppose my question is, what do you mean by "people eager for war?"

Come now, do I have to define every single term I use? I mean exactly what I said.

I don't know anybody who is eager for war outside of some serious sociopaths.

There are plenty of young soldiers that I have known that are/were eager for war. They are excited by the prospect, and all gung ho about getting into a fight and kicking some a**. I don't consider them sociopaths, but I do consider them inexperienced. It's after they go over, see real, heavy fighting, come back, and remain keen on combat that I start to question their mental health.

I fully support the direction our government is taking with regards to Iraq but to say that I am "eager for war" is entirely false.

I never made the claim that you or anyone else that disagrees with me on Iraq are eager for war. Please reread what I wrote: I am opposed to the US invading Iraq -- but this is because I think it is strategically a bad idea that will only exacerbate other problems we face.

I do not consider those who think war on Iraq is a good idea as warmongers or eager. I just think they are wrong for strategic reasons.

But that's all besides the point on this thread. Can't we talk about why a digital rectal exam is of critical importance in patients with a lower abdominal or perineal wound?
posted by moonbiter at 3:44 PM on November 7, 2002


Can't we talk about why a digital rectal exam is of critical importance in patients with a lower abdominal or perineal wound?

Had you started like this, instead of "It's been said that the only people eager for war are those who have never seen it", I could have said: but why torture patients with a lower abdominal or perineal wound with a digital rectam exam on top of it? Can't we do something less invasive? But your original line reminded me of anti-abortionists who show bloody fetuses to make the wrong point.
posted by semmi at 4:52 PM on November 7, 2002


But your original line reminded me of anti-abortionists who show bloody fetuses to make the wrong point.

Sigh. I give in. Think what you will. I hope you enjoyed the linked page anyway.

To everyone who didn't read too much into the front-page wording of this post: thanks.
posted by moonbiter at 6:41 PM on November 7, 2002


I have one word for you: "enucleation".
posted by Secret Life of Gravy at 6:46 PM on November 7, 2002


I bet there are offices full of people sitting around designing "better" bullets.

Well, university laboratories at least. Then there is the 20mm 'Smart Round' for the Army's new uber-rifle, the M29 Objective Individual Combat Weapon. These things are modular systems having a conventional 5.56mm assault rifle on the bottom and a 20mm gun on the top, the bullets of which are supposed to explode at just the right distance so you can hit people around corners.

They are scheduled to be deployed in 2009, and with their science-fiction lines they will look quite fashionable with the military's new Land Warrior digs. Of course, at more than 90 pounds and $64,000 a pop, there is some question whether or not the whole program will come to fruition.
posted by moonbiter at 9:04 PM on November 7, 2002


« Older The Party's Over   |   What Would The Good Doctor Have Prescribed? Newer »


This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments



Post