Footage: LSD tested on British troops
November 15, 2002 11:07 AM Subscribe

Amazing and hilarious found footage of LSD being tested on British troops (mpg) "The men began to relax and to giggle...One hour and ten minutes after taking the drug, with one man climbing a tree to feed the birds, the troop commander gave up...He himself then relapsed into laughter. [via the great New World Disorder]
posted by mediareport (50 comments total) 3 users marked this as a favorite

Terrible, we can't have happy, laughing people if we intend to make them kill other people. LSD is dangerous.
posted by letterneversent at 11:11 AM on November 15, 2002 [1 favorite]

I think that the repost search needs to include Fark, since half the things posted here were posted two or three days ago there.
posted by oissubke at 11:15 AM on November 15, 2002

i don't read fark.
posted by quonsar at 11:19 AM on November 15, 2002

I laughed at it myself, I especially loved the grammar school science class-esque narration.

Yet then I realized that it was a government's attempt at using psychotropic drugs to make men more efficient killing machines.

And the one soldier who had to be excused from the exercise due to what is obviously a bad trip.. I wonder what sort of discharge he would receive if walked away from that incident 'perma-fried', having incurred some sort of neurological damage.. honorable discharge? (I don't know the terms the British army uses)
posted by jazzkat11 at 11:19 AM on November 15, 2002

Letterneversent: do you ever get tired of trolling? What grade are you in? I'm sure in your own mind you're being righteous, edgy, contrarian and political, but you've shat on so many threads lately I'm starting to wonder if you're deliberately trying to reduce the quality of discussion around here. And I say that having been here quite some time. Yes, you edgy young radical, the only function of military officers is to kill other people. Feel better now?
posted by dhoyt at 11:22 AM on November 15, 2002

LSD is dangerous.

Well, one of the troops *did* have to be taken off the field, shaking his head and looking very upset. Set and setting and all that.
posted by mediareport at 11:22 AM on November 15, 2002

I personally don't mind having Fark posts discussed here. Surprisingly, the comments here usually are more informed.

Its the newsfilter, double post, "hey! you can't talk about commercial products here" comments that are most annoying.
posted by jsonic at 11:22 AM on November 15, 2002

Before that it was posted on Memepool.com...welcome to the internet.
posted by letterneversent at 11:23 AM on November 15, 2002

Uh, dhoyt, I didn't get the impression letterneversent was shitting on the thread. Maybe on your values, but that's different from shitting on the thread, unless you are in reality mediareport, which seems doubtful given your comments.

Anyway, this brings to mind the single funny scene in "History of the World, Pt. I." Good to know there was a real-world precedent for it.
posted by soyjoy at 11:27 AM on November 15, 2002

They gave them rocket launchers?! "Dude...look what I can do...look at the colours...boom...booooooooooooom..."

I like the poor guy who had a bad trip and needed to be talked down. Thanks, mediareport.

And I don't mind Fark posts being posted here, I don't read Fark.
posted by biscotti at 11:31 AM on November 15, 2002

They totally stole this link from declassified British military footage. I think the British military stole it from the camera lens. And the camera lens stole it from the air!
posted by Hildago at 11:35 AM on November 15, 2002

I read both Fark and MeFi, but since I'm much more likely to read the comments here than there, I certainly don't mind when links are posted in both places.
posted by Acetylene at 11:38 AM on November 15, 2002

To me, the real issue is informed consent and whether the soldiers were dosed without their knowledge. According to this must-read Guardian report from last March, British soldiers were told they were participating in research to cure the common cold. That's unconscionable.

i don't read fark.

I suspect a lot of us don't. That goes for Memepool, too. My gut feeling is that many folks tend to find one of the major communal blog sites and stick with it, which means there are a lot of these things that If you happen to be one of the bored, jaded thread derailers who voraciously hits all of the communal blogs, perhaps you should learn to sit on your hands if the only thing you have to offer to a thread is that you've seen the topic before.

This is a truly amazing find that deserves the widest possible exposure. I'd never in my life seen actual film footage of one of these experiments. Eye-opening doesn't begin to describe it.
posted by mediareport at 11:47 AM on November 15, 2002

Argh! Sorry for posting instead of previewing. The third paragraph should read:

I suspect a lot of us don't. That goes for Memepool, too. My gut feeling is that many folks tend to find one of the major communal blog sites and stick with it, which means there are a lot of these things that will be posted here. If you happen to be one of the bored, jaded thread derailers who voraciously hits all of the communal blogs, perhaps you should learn to sit on your hands if the only thing you have to offer to a thread is that you've seen the topic before.
posted by mediareport at 11:50 AM on November 15, 2002

Dhoyt: ad hominem ad hominem ad hominem ad hominem ad hominem

Please take issue with what I say, but I don't understand your compulsion to take issue with me. Yes, I'm contrarian...to YOU. It's hypocritical to criticize me for lowering the 'quality of discussion' while insisting on attacking me for being a troll.

"Men use thought only as authority for their injustice, and employ speech only to conceal their thoughts."
posted by letterneversent at 11:52 AM on November 15, 2002

At the risk of threadjacking towards the fark/MeFi side conversation... I read both religiously.

I comment more on fark than here. the difference is fark comments are for mind farts and quick and witty snarks, while MeFi comments generally have substance and discussion. Quality vs. quantity I guess.
posted by KnitWit at 11:56 AM on November 15, 2002

and I first saw this on the pile

[this is good]
posted by KnitWit at 11:57 AM on November 15, 2002

I was expecting to find a lot of comments on how the word "hilarious" was insensitive. Then I watched. Hilarious! Scary too. LSD *is* dangerous, especially (as biscotti points out) when military equipment is involved. Surely we'd find this a bit unconscionable today. That said, the guy climbing a tree is pretty funny and the whole thing recalls a scene from Mel Brooks' History of the World, Part I, when the Romans are given a taste of a giant "roman red" joint.:

1st guy: Do you care if it falls?
2nd guy: what?
1st guy: The Roman Empire.
2nd guy: fuck it.....
posted by condour75 at 12:05 PM on November 15, 2002

anyone think this could be a hoax? can't seem to find any other info about it. plus it reminds me a little of a certain movie (albeit with a happier ending)
posted by gwint at 12:09 PM on November 15, 2002

I'm pretty certain this isn't a hoax. LSD was tested for military use a LOT, and this seems one of the more restrained tests. Look into documents about the MKULTRA project for example.
posted by SiW at 12:15 PM on November 15, 2002

ad hominem

Classic. The old "I'm going to spew some politically-charged off-topic generalization as the first comment in the thread and then cry Ad Hominem when someone calls me on it" approach.
posted by dhoyt at 12:16 PM on November 15, 2002

I think the real question here is "Did the one soldier climbing the tree GET the birds fed?"
posted by blade at 12:16 PM on November 15, 2002

In any case what I liked about watching the video was its own resemblance to LSD: the creeping feeling of simultaneous dicomfort and silliness. Oy. That's why I don't do acid anymore.
posted by dhoyt at 12:18 PM on November 15, 2002

They gave a bunch of troops LSD and a Rocket Launcher? Reminds me of a trip I once had. Too long to go into. That video is hilarious!
posted by MaddCutty at 12:19 PM on November 15, 2002

The efficiency of the rocket launcher team was also very impaired.
Ohmigod. That is a bizarre combination of scary and hilarious that I've never quite experienced before.

Having just finished one book about entheogens and started another, I completely sympathize with letterneversent's comment. Not only is the use of LSD to increase troop efficiency absurd, it's also contrary to the moral values that I associate with the essence of LSD.

This movie is really amazing, though. Does anyone have evidence that this is not a hoax? There's nothing in the visual footage that unequivocally indicates LSD, and the voice over could easily have been added to some old random found footage within the last week. If I had to wager, I would wager that this is a hoax. A funny one, though.
posted by alms at 12:19 PM on November 15, 2002

Odd, a search for "LSD" in the Fark archive turns up nothing about British troops. Can someone point me to the thread there; I'm curious to see what it was like.

Nosing around online a bit turned up these neat tidbits:
Animator Jan Svankmeyer says he was given LSD in 1972 by the Czech military.
An elephant in the Oklahoma City Zoo was killed after being given a massive dose of LSD in 1962.
posted by mediareport at 12:33 PM on November 15, 2002

Not to mention the infamous story of Dock Ellis, pitcher for the Pittsburgh Pirates who threw a no-hitter while on LSD.
posted by dhoyt at 12:37 PM on November 15, 2002

According to this must-read Guardian report from last March, British soldiers were told they were participating in research to cure the common cold.

Not that what the Military told the soldiers wasn't BS, but I believe alot of psychotropic drugs were originally based on research initially done for cold medicines.
posted by stifford at 12:39 PM on November 15, 2002

If you're interested in the social history of LSD in the United Staes, I'd highly recommend Storming Heaven by Jay Stevens. Very fascinating history of how the government investigated it, dropped it and how it got picked up by the West Coast counter-culture

I tried linking it to Amazon but can't figure out how to remove all the session and referral crap out of the url.
posted by rks404 at 12:53 PM on November 15, 2002

The research for LSD wasn't initially focused on colds, stifford, but on finding new medicines in general. Albert Hoffman's discussion of his discovery of LSD-25 notes that Sandoz was doing "a systematic chemical and pharmacological investigation of partially synthetic amides of lysergic acid," basically just to see what they could find. The first synthetic derivative they came up with turned out to be great for "the arrest of hemorrhage," for instance.
posted by mediareport at 12:56 PM on November 15, 2002

thanks for the info link, mediareport. I didn't mean LSD specifically (it's been a few years since I took abnormal psych in college). I just remembered that some research that was done with colds and antihistamines was also used in psychiatric medicines.
posted by stifford at 1:05 PM on November 15, 2002

Chilling, although given the UK Ministry of Defence's past record on testing chemicals on UK citizens it's hardly surprising they've no qualms about doing the same to troops. To me it's just symptomatic of the contempt with which they treat the people they supposedly protect.

Classic. The old "I'm going to spew some politically-charged off-topic generalization as the first comment in the thread and then cry Ad Hominem when someone calls me on it" approach.

There's a difference between registering and explaining your disagreement and taking the old "I'm going to furiously accuse you of being an ignorant troll because you don't agree with me" approach.
posted by zygoticmynci at 1:13 PM on November 15, 2002

rsk404: You can link to stuff on Amazon like this: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0802135870/. "0802135870" is the book's ISBN; it's listed on the Amazon page.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:20 PM on November 15, 2002

Great link.
posted by xammerboy at 1:53 PM on November 15, 2002

Is anyone else having trouble getting the movie?
posted by pjgulliver at 2:04 PM on November 15, 2002

never mind....
posted by pjgulliver at 2:05 PM on November 15, 2002

Wow! Svankmajer on LSD. Excellent reading. He (and Harryhausen) are my heros.

"Perhaps drugs are no more than a preserved and concentrated form of imagination. But the imagination also has a predilection for cruelty - which is why drugs can sometimes make people cruel and, instead of showing them the way to absolute freedom, drive them into the clutches of yet more demons."
posted by Rattmouth at 3:02 PM on November 15, 2002

It would tend to explain a few things...
posted by Ogre Lawless at 3:07 PM on November 15, 2002

although given the UK Ministry of Defence's past record on testing chemicals on UK citizens it's hardly surprising they've no qualms about doing the same to troops. To me it's just symptomatic of the contempt with which they treat the people they supposedly protect.

Well, the UK weren't the only ones. I've got a VHS of the Edgewood arsenal experiments in a box in the loft somewhere.
posted by walrus at 4:35 PM on November 15, 2002

I'm utterly drunk, but still I didn't find it funny at all. _And_ I'm 100% certain it is a hoax. Nothing else to say, for now. Have a nice day.
posted by lazy-ville at 4:47 PM on November 15, 2002

Could be a hoax--the audio quality is miles better than the video quality, and since it's an old film, it's likely the audio was optically printed, which means it should be in roughly the same condition as the visuals. And that cut-in shot of the soldier's wonky POV while aiming the rocket launcher seemed a little contrived.

But still, who knows? It's a fact the US miltary gave LSD to troops, and I expect the same is true of the British, and you would expect they would film these things.
posted by Fabulon7 at 11:05 PM on November 15, 2002

Don't quite agree with your analysis Fabulon7. The pictures aren't that scratched, exposure is a little off but that is consistent with a non-professional army cameraman/observer with a handheld 16mm camera. The voice over would have been recorded in a professional studio and sounds authentic enough to me. It could of course be a very clever hoax, but if so a rather elaborate and understated one.
Another great book on acid and the CIA is of course Acid Dreams (Lee/Shlain).
posted by rolo at 6:59 AM on November 16, 2002

jazzcat - ...'if walked away from that incident 'perma-fried', having incurred some sort of neurological damage'

AFAIK lsd neither gives or takes anything from the chemical balance of the brain, in the long term. being on a 'bad trip' is equivalent to being subjected to a great deal of mental stress/trauma. people can experience a 'breakdown', but it is no different from any other mental breakdown, and does not 'fry' any part of the brain.

'Long-term adverse reactions such as persistent psychosis,
prolonged depression, or faulty judgment have also been reported following
LSD ingestion but whether these are a direct result of ingestion is
difficult to establish.'
'LSD can trigger underlying mental problems and produce delusions,
paranoia, and schizophrenia-like states. It can also produce extreme
anxiety states or panic attacks, not only while under the influence of the
drug, but for some time after. LSD may also result in changes in the
personality of the user. These are known as “Bad Trips” Bad trips are not
cause of the LSD (proven through scientific testing) that he/she has taken
(although it plays a part in exciting a part of your brain not normally
used), the bad trip deals more with the sub-conscious of the user.'
quotations from a source of no authority whatever
posted by asok at 9:05 AM on November 16, 2002

rolo: Yes, the audio would have been recorded in a professional studio, but it would have been printed onto the film itself in the form of optical tracks running down the side of the 16mm print. It is virtually impossible to find any print that old that doesn't have hissing and scratching and popping in the audio, because of the deterioration of the cellulite on which it is printed. This deterioration also accounts for exposure shifts and such--things that happen even if the film is never projected or touched. (And not scratched.)

One of the things that bothers me: Why would a secret internal army film have that newsreely style of voiceover?

Still, I'm not convinced it is a hoax, but it doesn't seem quite right.
posted by Fabulon7 at 10:30 AM on November 16, 2002

Fabulon7: it does reek of early BBC documentary style. I guess the army videographers must have learned from somewhere. Also possible is that someone cleaned up the audio before encoding. I know I usually do. Without any supporting evidence it's going to be hard to be sure, but I certainly wouldn't be massively surprised if it turned out to be true.
posted by walrus at 10:56 AM on November 16, 2002

Shame on you people for not doing any research. When my hangover was finally gone, I decided to prove that this is a hoax. A simple google search found that the video comes from Undercurrents, a alternative video news service.
It is in their archive video 7. Undercurrents seems as reputable as an alternative video service can be, so I'm far less convinced that it is a hoax. I still think it isn't real, but I might be wrong.
posted by lazy-ville at 5:02 PM on November 16, 2002

letterneversent, it would clarify things, and lift suspicions of trollishness from you, if you could re-state, in plain English, what exactly you were trying to say.

The problem seems to be that the very high snark quotient of the your post obscures its underlying content.

as an outside observer unfamiliar with any past posts by letterneversent that would perhaps influence my opinion of the troll-quotient in the post, I have to say it seems pretty straightforward to me what the comment was getting at.

The video shows a bunch of happy, silly men, seemingly enjoying themselves. The voice over generally construes their condition as unfortunate, and society widely considers LSD a negative substance. And the ideal condition for these men is generally considered to be one full of hatred and with a single minded focus on the achievement of murder.

It's just a kind of depressing state of human affairs that their being high on acid is illegal and their being trained to kill other human beings is a major portion of the nation's budget. Not saying we don't need an army, either, just that it's a reminder of the way human beings are...
posted by mdn at 5:23 PM on November 16, 2002

Shame on you people for not doing any research.

Er, some of us already did but found the Undercurrents site info rather inconclusive.

A simple google search found that the video comes from Undercurrents

No. A *copy* of the clip is *available* from Undercurrents. Whether it's authentic or not is still an open question (although it obviously felt real enough to me). A friend told me last night he'd seen it a few years ago, so it's been out there for a while. I emailed Undercurrents to ask if they have more information about it; I'll post whatever reply I get.
posted by mediareport at 9:15 AM on November 17, 2002

Here's what Ben at Undercurrents wrote me earlier today:

Undercurrents brought a sixties newsreel from W H Smithes (a big stationers in the UK) on VHS and it had it on, they simply put the film on their video. It's totally for real.
Ben

Seems compelling to me.
posted by mediareport at 1:19 PM on November 21, 2002

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