Baring our, er, souls, for peace.
November 16, 2002 3:19 PM   Subscribe

Peace protest really takes off. I live in West Marin, where some people take their peace protests fairly seriously, and this has been the topic of conversation pretty much in every little town that the Point Reyes Light covers since Thursday's issue of the paper came out. I can just see the White House staff and Dubya's dad when they get a load of this. "See, those people in Marin County are all nuts, just like John Walker Lindh!"
posted by Lynsey (19 comments total)
 
Gee, just the threat of stripping worked for the Nigerian women recently.

This is in the tradition of Lysistrata and the advice Joan Baez gave to peace loving girls during the VietNam War. Here's a pointer to a modern day Lysistrata movement that contains links to creative nonviolent protest groups.
posted by madamjujujive at 4:34 PM on November 16, 2002


Nice links, madam. But I fear there's a vast difference between actually doing (or refusing to do) something that makes a difference, like the gals of Lysistrata, and lying down in the buff to create a cute photo. But it does summarize nicely the difference between the ancient Greeks and us (compare their democracy, in which all citizens gathered together and voted directly on the issues of the day, and our "democracy").
posted by languagehat at 4:53 PM on November 16, 2002


That would of course mean all the "citizens" meaning no women or slaves were allowed to have opinions or vote directly on the issues of the day. So in other words trying to summarize nicely the difference is actually nonsensical.

Me thinks the languagehat does complain too much!
posted by filchyboy at 5:02 PM on November 16, 2002


Nekkid Chicks!!Nekkid Chicks!!

Woo-Hoo!!

Wait there was a message here, right? War is Bad, Don't Do Drugs, the Policeman is Your Freind, whatever!!

Woo-Hoo, naked chicks!!
posted by jonmc at 6:58 PM on November 16, 2002


John Walker Lindh went to my high school.

Marin *is* fucked up.
posted by atom128 at 7:46 PM on November 16, 2002


Another recent case of undressing as a form of protest
posted by hattifattener at 8:04 PM on November 16, 2002


Other participants said it had been decades, in many cases since the 1960s, since they’ve been in a protest.

We can only be thankful for the lack of detail in the photographs. [wipes brow]
posted by Slithy_Tove at 9:14 PM on November 16, 2002


will any guys strip for war?
posted by bokononito at 9:29 PM on November 16, 2002


compare their democracy, in which all citizens gathered together and voted directly on the issues of the day, and our "democracy

Good grief ... study at least a little bit of history.
posted by MidasMulligan at 10:21 PM on November 16, 2002


It is a great picture but they aren't all naked. One woman is wearing a hat.

Santa Barbara had another peace protest today. People here have been protesting since the bombs began to drop in Afghanistan. There are more people at the protest each Saturday.
posted by MaddCutty at 10:27 PM on November 16, 2002


They claim the event was held on 14-Nov-2002, but they can't fool me -- that picture was obviously taken before the world was in color.
posted by kindall at 11:04 PM on November 16, 2002


midasmulligan: good call- so many people make the claim that the Greeks had such a wonderful democracy and that they invented our modern idea of democracy and other wonderful things. The reality of the Greek "democracy" would amaze those people.
posted by crazy finger at 11:26 PM on November 16, 2002


Midas and crazy: Actually, I've read quite a bit of Greek history, and I know perfectly well that (for instance) women and slaves were not part of their wonderful democracy. But I assumed my fellow MeFites knew that as well, so I didn't feel the need to point it out (or go into demes and phylae and the Council of 500) in a parenthetical aside. I sighed when I saw filchyboy's comment ("Woo hoo! I know Greeks had slaves!") but didn't feel the need to respond. But if you're going to pile on, here goes:

When we evaluate earlier societies, we basically have the choice of grading them on the curve (so to speak) or by taking our glorious modernity as 100 and marking everyone else down accordingly. If we take the latter course, we should be aware that the future is guaranteed to find us gravely wanting in ways we are currently incapable of predicting. If we're going to say to them (or their hypothetical future frowns) "But, but, we have freedom of speech and tolerance of minorities and all that good stuff that a lot of countries don't have," then we owe the same courtesy to earlier societies. So: are you aware of a bunch of other societies in the fifth century BCE that enabled a substantial number of their members to vote on the issues of the day? Because I'm not. All complex ("civilized") societies back then had slaves, all of them repressed women, all of them took for granted forms of brutality that horrify us when we look at them. But only the Greeks added democracy to that mix, and that made it possible for future societies to improve on democracy by adding more and more people to the category of "voting citizens." (May I remind you, by the way, that women only got the vote in the U.S. within living memory, and at the time they did so, slavery had existed within living memory? And that effective black suffrage in many parts of the U.S. only came about within my lifetime?) I think that's wonderful, and I think the current fashion for sneering at it because it doesn't fully meet current standards is childish and shows an unwillingness to truly come to grips with history.

But if it makes you feel better to go "Woo hoo, I know the Greeks had slaves!" and make fun of "those people" who don't have your wisdom -- be my guest.
posted by languagehat at 8:37 AM on November 17, 2002


Powerful picture. I love creative protesting like this. The nakedness matters; it conveys the desperation many of us feel nicely. Hope the photo gets distributed all over the world.

there's a vast difference between actually doing (or refusing to do) something that makes a difference, like the gals of Lysistrata, and lying down in the buff to create a cute photo.

The organizer, Donna Sheehan, is a 72-year-old artist and activist who's apparently been involved in low-power FM and environmental issues, and is one of the founders of a West Marin community radio station. We really don't know what else any of the other women have done, aside from "lying down...to create a cute photo." And even if they're doing nothing else, I say this move stands on its own as a sharp contribution to the peace movement. More small-scale creative actions like this, please. A lot more.
posted by mediareport at 8:48 AM on November 17, 2002


Fair enough, mediareport, but I wasn't addressing what else they might have done (and I'm sure some of them have done good things, like the organizer), I was just making a quick and snarky comment (after praising madamjujujive's links) about the fact that this reminds me of all too many "conceptual" or "artistic" or whatever protests that allow everyone involved to go off and have a beer (I guess a chai is more likely here) and feel good about themselves without actually having done anything about the problem. Mind you, I'm not attacking such events (I think having fun is a good thing), I was just pointing out the difference. But of course if for you "it conveys the desperation many of us feel" you wouldn't agree. And I hope you're right about its possible effect, because I feel the same way about the impending war.
posted by languagehat at 9:49 AM on November 17, 2002


When I see large numbers of naked bodies laying down in black and white photos it is hauntingly much like Holocaust photos. Perhaps that was the intent of the message? Or perhaps laying down naked conveys some special insight into the plight of the Iraqi people? I'm confused what they are thinking other than simple shock value which is not very shocking.
posted by stbalbach at 1:10 PM on November 17, 2002


I don't think that war in Iraq should be fought without due consideration of the arguments on all sides, but this sort of thing fairly shouts that the argument on the peace side is simply one more manifestation of hippy freakdom. There is nothing serious or strategic about it, kind of like the puppets and dreadlocked Mumia-lovers at WTO protests.
posted by MattD at 2:00 PM on November 17, 2002


...but this sort of thing fairly shouts that the argument on the peace side is simply one more manifestation of hippy freakdom.

I'm sure you're right. Maybe the first order of business should be proper haircuts for all, ala boot camp. After all, appearance is more important than substance. Get rid of those damned offensive dreadlocks.

Sheesh, talk about people who are still living in the fifties/sixties....
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 1:19 AM on November 19, 2002


Talk about a peace of ass!
(boo.....)
posted by sparky at 1:55 PM on November 20, 2002


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