The Ladder Theory...

November 20, 2002 1:15 PM

The Ladder Theory... a theory of adult male/female interaction. While some may find this a bit offensive, it is quite interesting. It includes rating systems, attraction breakdowns, scenarios, consequences, and manifestations.
posted by darian (76 comments total)

How supremely saddening.
posted by DenOfSizer at 1:28 PM on November 20, 2002

Oh my God! Who is this guy? It's like some fratboy trying to make his twisted worldview into something legitimate through a badly framed website. Here's a gem:

Another thing to watch out for is the code words women use. Here is a translation guide for dealing with women.

Says: I want a man who is motivated and has goals.
Means: I want a rich man

Says: I want a man who knows how to treat a woman.
Means: I want a rich man

Says: He's from a really good family.
Means: He's from a really rich family.
posted by elwoodwiles at 1:28 PM on November 20, 2002

This is way off the offensive scale. Women as "whores"? Women really primarily care about money? And "don't really" care about intelligence, honesty, principles, etc?

Pure trash.
posted by Red58 at 1:31 PM on November 20, 2002

I'll sum it all up for those of you who don't want to bother reading the link: It's your typical "Women only want guys with money, men only want good-looking women." stereotypes. Oh, and "99.999% of women" are bitches. And then there are some pie charts.

Charming, really charming.
posted by turaho at 1:31 PM on November 20, 2002

Bitch -- 99.999% of women.

God -- Something you should profess belief in if you think it will help you bang some bitch.

Bitter much?
posted by gottabefunky at 1:31 PM on November 20, 2002

Wait, gottabefunky, the bitterness issue is already addressed on the Common Criticisms page. “And why does everyone always say I'm bitter just because 99.999% of chicks are bitches?”
posted by Firefly at 1:35 PM on November 20, 2002

Answers to Common Criticisms

Criticism: You're just bitter.
Answer: Maybe I am. But ladder theory made me that way, my bitterness did not make ladder theory. Attack the theory, not the person behind it. And why does everyone always say I'm bitter just because 99.999% of chicks are bitches?

How... uh... why... uh... Nevermind.

[Heh. Jinx]
posted by RJ Reynolds at 1:38 PM on November 20, 2002

Hmph. He's at the bottom of MY ladder.
posted by SealWyf at 1:48 PM on November 20, 2002

"Criticism:That's not true
Answer:Yes it is."

Apparently he's been studying the Mefi I/P thread archives.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 1:50 PM on November 20, 2002

Juvenile, misogynistic bullshite. No need to rehash all the above comments, but if this is intended to be funny it will appeal only to those who subscribe to the "then punch her in the back of the head" school of comedy.
posted by yhbc at 1:51 PM on November 20, 2002

Ah. When you're 15 years old, you think you have all the answers.

Lemma 4.2.1
Guys who lack charm and a diverse experience of life and women will try to explain away their ill fortune with constructs like 'ladder theory'
posted by Winterfell at 1:52 PM on November 20, 2002

This struck no chords with me, except to think that it must be very sad to look at the world this way.

Let me offer my own personal theory of attraction:

• teenagers: want what they can't have
• young adults: want someone who represents who they would like to become
• adults: want someone who is compatible in their strengths as well as flaws

I'd love to hear others' theories.
posted by 4easypayments at 1:52 PM on November 20, 2002

I like the way it starts off all pseudoscientific, with sentences like "It has its basis in many years of sociological field testing.", but as you get further in it just disintegrates into hackneyed vitriol. It's almost as if the author got bored with the "theory" framing device and finished up with whatever would fill the page.
posted by mr_roboto at 1:52 PM on November 20, 2002

While incredibly cynical, it does contain grain of truth about both sexes. The biological imperative of a woman is to find someone who can be a father to her children. For that to work, he has to be attractive (by her standards, and standards vary), and he has to appear to be able to take care of her and their children. The over-simplification of this is Hot + Rich = Good.

The biological imperative of a man is to spread his seed far and wide, thus the natural reduction to Hot = Good.

I don't care for being referred to as a bitch in a generic manner, but it's really just an elaborate play on the above by someone with too much time on their hands.

-Nicole
posted by astrogirl at 1:52 PM on November 20, 2002

You know, I appreciate good humor. This, is far from good humor. Someday, God willing, this guy will change his mind and come into a light of normalcy. Failing that, here's to hoping this guy has an accident and his testes are hurled way up into his body.
posted by Ufez Jones at 1:52 PM on November 20, 2002

Yulp, this kind of mash is the hallmark of guys that can't get laid.

riposte!
posted by dgaicun at 1:54 PM on November 20, 2002

Not that it isn't all based on well known biological truths.
posted by dgaicun at 1:57 PM on November 20, 2002

I'm surprised to see all of the negative reaction here. I liked it. This site is about a part of life that is males experience from 16 to 33. You're either gay or you want to sleep with them. I can deal with this. Once you find a "girl friend" she is high enough on the ladder to keep you from sleeping with the other girls. When a ladder jumper comes along most guys go through a period where they have to decide if sleeping with the women on top of the ladder is worth the trouble. That would be the elactisity of the ladder.

When some men get older this changes. We stop looking at the ladder so much because of the commitments we have or the difficulty we face in changing the ladder. That's not to say it would stop a man from having sex if the Victoria Secret girls come over.


I could on. I better stop before I offend someone.
posted by MaddCutty at 1:59 PM on November 20, 2002

absolutely brilliant...
posted by gyc at 2:02 PM on November 20, 2002

I don't agree with the all-women-are-bitches comments, but when he gets into the two ladders women have, and the way guys try to jump between them, he's pretty much on target. Are there any males here who can say they haven't tried to jump from the friends ladder to the romantic one, and experienced what he's talking about, at least once?
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 2:04 PM on November 20, 2002

And to the extent we are biological critters, dgaicun, it's valid. But we, both men and women, are also mental critters. We care how we are treated. We don't want to be abused, and we don't want to be bored. We all want to have something to talk about after the biological bouncedance is over.
posted by SealWyf at 2:05 PM on November 20, 2002

At first this seemed like blatant flame bait/trolling. I mean, once he started talking about the hypotenuse of the triangle formed by a ladder disparity, it was hard to take seriously, but it did elicit a few chuckles.

However, this guy is dead serious. I mean, he even has stories of women who rejected him on his web page. This is a view into the mind of a seriously warped, sad person.
posted by deanc at 2:06 PM on November 20, 2002

First, two disclaimers:

1) If 99.999999% of women are bitches, then, necessarily, roughly 99.999999% of men are assholes. I assume that "bitch" and "asshole," by his definitions, are people that behave according to the ladder theory.

2) This guy hates women, is extremely insecure and bitter, and has never had a relationship based on something more than sex and money.

So you can see in my first disclaimer that I do believe that a very, very large percent of the population behaves according to this theory WHEN DATING. If you cannot see that, you are fooling yourself, IMHO. (Basically, I agree with Asrogirl on this one...)

I think that it's also interesting to note that people in long-term relationships REFUSE to admit that, when were first dating, their mutual behavior towards one another fell in line with this theory. Until you can admit that to your significant other, your long-term relationship will never feel truly safe or fulfilling.

For all you who deny the truth of this theory so quickly, remember that forgiveness (especially of yourself) is a powerful healing tool. What makes human beings special is not their ability to behave perfectly, it is their ability to admit mistakes and grow.
posted by zekinskia at 2:08 PM on November 20, 2002

what seal said, and additionally...

I have respect for myself and my female friends. This means I don't try to sleep with them. I enjoy hanging out with them. I enjoy talking with them about interesting and educational topics. I'm not a bonobo, and neither are my friends. I find this whole narrow-minded animalistic mindset way over simplified and yes, a bit insulting.

I guess I'm the exception to the rule, but yes, YAN, I can honestly say that.
posted by Ufez Jones at 2:09 PM on November 20, 2002

Please MaddCutty, make sure you specify that you mean that you too experienced similar things, do not lump me into your sad little world of hierarchies. No, not ALL males go through similar experiences. Believe it or not many men do not look at women and automatically view them as sexual objects! Sexual attraction, friendship and interaction with women are, for many of us, three very separate things. The sick generalizations are the saddest thing about this awful "theory" that this sad, bitter, misogynistic, little boy has developed.
posted by Pollomacho at 2:10 PM on November 20, 2002

SealWyf,

I don't follow what your saying to me.
posted by dgaicun at 2:11 PM on November 20, 2002

I'm with MaddCutty. I think it's quite funny, and you'd have to be in denial to say that there aren't some nuggets of truth in there.
posted by waldo at 2:11 PM on November 20, 2002

You know, I thought that MeFiers were pretty good at recognizing satire when they saw it...
posted by tweebiscuit at 2:17 PM on November 20, 2002

Let me amend my statement. I don't want to hold it against the guy for having some bad experiences with women... but most of us react in a more, um, "constructive" manner.
posted by deanc at 2:18 PM on November 20, 2002

dgaicun,

Not that it isn't all based on well known biological truths.

Yes, there's a biological underpinning. But human relationships have dimensions besides reproductive fitness. That's all I'm saying.

--Seal
posted by SealWyf at 2:19 PM on November 20, 2002

This guy wouldn't be so bitter if he realized that 99.999999% of the guys out there that follow the ladder system go get free bj's at their local tea room (definitely not safe for work or people who've never seen Queer as Folk).

Definite stress reducer, dude. Look into it. Better yet, just grow up.

But if you don't take it seriously, this site is really quite amusing
posted by WolfDaddy at 2:19 PM on November 20, 2002

Well, of course everyone wants to date the person with the highest concentration of what they think are good characteristics. I guess this observation is vacuously a "nugget of truth."

So, why is it that it's always men who claim that men and women can't be friends?
posted by transona5 at 2:22 PM on November 20, 2002

But human relationships have dimensions besides reproductive fitness.

Did I somehow make it seem that I thought otherwise?
posted by dgaicun at 2:23 PM on November 20, 2002

The fact that Vin Diesel is considered "hot" by just about every woman I know makes me think this guy is on to something.
posted by bondcliff at 2:23 PM on November 20, 2002

Nicole: While incredibly cynical, it does contain grain of truth about both sexes.

That's the trouble, disentangling the cynicism from genuine observations. A glance at personal ads in newspapers shows a strong pattern that matches quite well what he says about the priorities of each sex. The men want younger attractive women; the women ask for tall "solvent" men (and "solvent" does often come in coded forms such as listing interests - e.g. theatre and dining out - that can't be indulged without money). Does that apply to everyone to some extent, or is it a mindset of those whose difficulties in forming relationships have led to their advertising?
posted by raygirvan at 2:26 PM on November 20, 2002

I really don't think this guy is genuinely warped OR hates women. I think he just has a different sense of humor than the first posters to the thread.

"Not a single woman who wasn't a bitch has ever complained about misogyny at this site. I can prove this on an abacus. "

Come ON, that's funny, and not the work of a shallow moron either.
posted by astrogirl at 2:28 PM on November 20, 2002

When I base anything on "just about every woman I know" I can come up with any number of conclusions. That this guy is "on to something" is not one of them. Go meet some lesbians, go meet some, well, hell, just more women, don't try to have sex with them, grow!
posted by Pollomacho at 2:29 PM on November 20, 2002

People are around for one reason: to make other people. We're just genes with feet. That's funny.
posted by swift at 2:31 PM on November 20, 2002

The best satire always starts with a germ of truth. The quote from "When Harry met Sally" was met with a 50% laugh in the theater when I saw it - and the laughs seemed to be coming from the male part of the audience.

Men and women are different in the ways that they approach relationships. The Ladder Theory is one attempt to explain the differences. The hyperbole utilized by the author reveals the theory to be flawed, but the humor of the piece tells me that there is some basic truth at the root of the argument.

If you take the position that there are NO differences in the way in which men and women view relationships, then I think you are further from whatever ultimate truth exists than the author of The Ladder Theory.
posted by mygoditsbob at 2:35 PM on November 20, 2002 [1 favorite]

"Boys begin life not liking girls; later they don't change, they just get horny."
-deleted line from Carnal Knowledge
posted by Dean King at 2:36 PM on November 20, 2002

Women only care about money and men only care about sex. What a humorous and fascinating insight into the human condition.

Also, black people like fried chicken, white people like golf and mayonnaise, jews are cheap, and mexicans are lazy.
posted by LittleMissCranky at 2:38 PM on November 20, 2002

Hey, just as a warning too...

For you women who deny this guy's theory absolutely, be aware that a lot of stalkers are "cuddle bitches," frustrated at not being capable of jumping ladders when they think they deserve it. I've seen it on more than one occasion. Just be aware... it can be dangerous.
posted by zekinskia at 2:38 PM on November 20, 2002

He didn't quite do this, but I'm always amused when guys complain in the same breath that women are interested only in money and then that they're interested only in sensitive, creative types whose interests are obviously a big put-on so they can get laid.

These men are actually right. If you're rich, you can attract shallow women. If you're interesting, you can attract non-shallow women. If you're the author of the Ladder Theory...
posted by transona5 at 2:40 PM on November 20, 2002

I'm with waldo and MaddCutty. Nuggets of truth, and pimple-faced drug-altered frosh fratboys would probably agree with a resounding, "Hell yeah, brotha! Whazzzaaaa!"

So bitter, sad, and obviously young. But, as I'm a little older, a Unix geek, LAN gamer, paintball player, rat-motorbike rider, etc. so on so forth with geeky stuff, and I don't seem to have problems, I find it absofuckinglutely hilarious.
posted by SpecialK at 2:40 PM on November 20, 2002

Heh. The site reflects my own dating experiences in college perfectly.

However, when dating and/or being a severely mentally ill person the dynamics change completely. There's a lot more 'can I possibly find someone who won't learn to hate me in 6 months like EVERY PERSON ON THE PLANET?' on the part of both parties. Once you do find that person, you would never give them up simply because you honestly can't afford to. Being forced to make it work by your own self and your partner experiencing the same is a completely different scenario than the one contained in this site.

But for normal dating in a college situation I'm hard-pressed to recall a *true* example that this did not explain. Yes, I agree he left out that all men are assholes. We have to be, just like you women have to be bitches. This is life. And it is hilarious.
posted by Ryvar at 2:47 PM on November 20, 2002

99.999% of women are bitches apparently, but it take's a special kind of woman who reaches the hall of fame.

Well what do you expect, after all God is Asleep.

Anyway, to me, it definitely is funny. Although different parts of me are debating whether this is of the ha-ha or peculiar variety.
posted by DaRiLo at 2:48 PM on November 20, 2002

That was truly amusing. Sure, there's a grain of truth, and I'm sure most of us could think of at least one scenario from our past that fits the bill. And then we moved on, and grew, and (hopefully) realized there's more to life than fucking better-looking and/or richer partners.

Have to admit the whole women's 'friend' and 'real' ladder thing is pretty accurate, though...
posted by widdershins at 2:52 PM on November 20, 2002

i'm amused at how scientific the author is trying to be, it does come off as a bit silly of course, but there is a rather large grain of truth to the ladder's theory. i can definatley relate to some of these circumstances and examples, which all stem from a general lack of understanding between men and women, especially at the young-adult stage...
posted by sixtwenty3dc at 2:59 PM on November 20, 2002

i think i want to sleep with astro girl


*runs away, swiftly, cash falling out of pockets*
posted by folktrash at 3:00 PM on November 20, 2002

Most women read this and say something like, "Well I'm not the average woman because..blah...blah...not true...blah blah...my boyfriend/lover/husband/masseuse was poor...blah...blah."

If you thought something like this you are very likely the average woman.

Believe it or not many men do not look at women and automatically view them as sexual objects! Sexual attraction, friendship and interaction with women are, for many of us, three very separate things.
- pollomacho


See, it goes both ways. ;)
posted by poopy at 3:04 PM on November 20, 2002

My roommates in college and I, consisting of two females and two males, came up with our own explanation. We called it the man's black box and the woman's field of stones.
A man's black box takes an input, a woman's name, and has one of two outputs: yes or no. This process occurs every time a man encounters or thinks of a woman. Certain parameters tend to alter the 50/50 chances, but what those parameters are and how they affect them cannot be stipulated. Hence a black box.
A woman's field of stones consists of a field separated by a high stone wall. Stones like on either side and even on the wall itself. They are heavy, and in each one is etched a man's name. The first encounter with a man results in the spontaneous creation of a stone in the sky. Its position upon creation is dependent on parameters that are like the air, unseen and unknowable, though very much dependent on the weather at the time -- a woman's mood. The stone drops, and where it falls, it begins to gather moss. It is only through sheer tectonic force or a maelstrom of epic proportions can a stone be moved from its position in the field.

Ah, college.

I took it as humor, and went with it. I'm not going to expend the energy to get mad at something that, regardless of how the author feels about it, made me chuckle while reading it.
posted by linux at 3:09 PM on November 20, 2002

I would rant about his misogynistic tendencies as well if he weren't so damned correct.
posted by St Seneca at 3:20 PM on November 20, 2002

You know, I thought that MeFiers were pretty good at recognizing satire when they saw it...

I think around here it's much more the fashion to get snarky and act offended. Haven't found the pleasure in it yet, but there's time.

I found the ladder theory funny because, while it's obviously not true all the time, it holds enough of the time to make it funny, and it stays in your mind. It's obviously true that men and women look for different characteristics in the opposite sex. This will have an impact on their behaviour towards each other. That men are willing to sleep with many different women, while women are likely to want to keep men around without wanting to sleep with them isn't so contentious.

In all the posts dismissing and complaining about this guy as a misogynist and I see many many people who took his bait and reacted just as he could have hoped.
posted by Space Coyote at 3:50 PM on November 20, 2002

There's a penninsula in Greece where he may feel more comfortable....

I don't get offended at the opinions of complete strangers, and I can't see why anyone else would. So the guy tried to be funny and missed the mark on a few occasions. Satire is a tough one to do right.
posted by Salmonberry at 4:00 PM on November 20, 2002

you don't need a ladder or all that reading. Just remember this:
Candy is Dandy
But Liquor is Quicker
posted by Postroad at 4:11 PM on November 20, 2002

More from the 'Fuck all those bitches' school of thought. Stay tuned: More to come.
posted by dgaicun at 4:21 PM on November 20, 2002

I've got an alternate theory that involves 40% of women wanting to push me off a ladder. Perhaps I will reveal it some time.
posted by Hildago at 4:24 PM on November 20, 2002

Ladder theory is a nice idea but it's wrong. Let's suppose 2 people are alone on an island. Using ladder theory they will hook up because there is no one else, they are both at the top of the ladder. But reality would say this is not the case. She may simply hate the guy and wouldnt let him in if he was the last man on Earth. People hook up because they like each other. People stay together because they like each other. Not because someone better hasnt come along.
posted by stbalbach at 4:32 PM on November 20, 2002

Sorry to lump you into a group of all males, Pollomacho.
posted by MaddCutty at 4:52 PM on November 20, 2002

Dis stupid.
posted by Pretty_Generic at 4:54 PM on November 20, 2002

The key to getting women is simple: treat them how they want to be treated. Unfortunately, too many women like being abused and men have learned this.

Am disappointed that the author failed to discuss the social climbing aspect of the ladder, which can lead to group think and cock blocking when the woman let's her friends think for her. Before any progress can be made, one must first separate and deprogram the woman.

I agree with that guy 100% ... but it only applies to the majority of people. The same majority that can't find Iraq on a map. It wouldn't be humor if he didn't generalize. Didn't anyone catch the similarity of his diagrams and the diagrams in The Games People Play? That was a real paradigm-shifting book that I am 99.999% the guy has read.

Couldn't find a good explanatory link, but The Casanova Complex is another book I identified with very strongly and may give some insight into the so-called misogynistic male who realizes that it's all bullshit and loves women anyway.

Also, what zekinskia said. Most women have no idea when they're sending mixed messages, and some have recurring "stalker" problems. One thing I've noticed about women I've dated who have had that problem in the past is that they do things which make absolutely no sense and frustrate me. As much as I wanted to stalk them to teach them the lesson, I just broke it off and stopped speaking to them.
posted by son_of_minya at 5:01 PM on November 20, 2002

*Laughs*
What a humorous way to describe what some peope go through during high school and college.

I don't get all the resentment...this is like Hollywood dating rules, anything you'd see in a movie. Real life adds many more variables, but there are still some basic points people can relate to.
posted by Be'lal at 5:18 PM on November 20, 2002

Calling the guy a misogynist isn't going to get any of you cuddle bitches laid.
posted by paleocon at 5:34 PM on November 20, 2002 [1 favorite]

I wasn't really impressed by the piece (didn't find it well done enough to be funny), but I've been more disturbed by some of the posting.

As much as I wanted to stalk them to teach them the lesson

What? Ew! I mean, I'm glad you chose not to stalk someone, but I'm surprised it was a consideration. To echo the sentiments of earlier comments, lots of people suck. Instead of wasting your time with them, move on to the ones that don't.
posted by synapse at 5:46 PM on November 20, 2002

"Sending mixed messages" = "thinking you could possibly be interesting enough for a guy to want to hang out with if there's not sex involved"
posted by transona5 at 6:27 PM on November 20, 2002

I think his ladder theory applies to most(if not all) of the people that attend clubs and bars and whatnot...

they are there to get laid, and if you're not high enough on the ladder from a member of the opposite sex there, then you're simply not getting laid.

but being an 18 year old teenager that tried his best to stay a virgin until marriage until failing miserably at 16(hangs head in shame)... I find that its definately not all about sex. Just being with a wonderful girl... getting butterflies in your stomach everytime you see her...

But yeah... some parts of this ladder theory definately make sense, especially for teenage girls... when they really don't know what they *really* want... only approximations.
posted by spidre at 6:50 PM on November 20, 2002

Unfortunately, too many women like being abused...
Am disappointed that the author failed to discuss the social climbing aspect of the ladder, which can lead to group think and cock blocking when the woman let's her friends think for her. Before any progress can be made, one must first separate and deprogram the woman.
As much as I wanted to stalk them to teach them the lesson...

Oh. Women like to be abused.... some need "deprogramming"...and some require "stalking" so that they'll learn.

~yeccchhhh~

Congratulations. I think you pretty much just disgusted and offended significantly more than 50% of the population, without even giving us the goddamned courtesy of a "may offend" warning about your post.

~chuckle~
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 7:11 PM on November 20, 2002

Once you do find that person, you would never give them up simply because you honestly can't afford to.

Au contraire. People act like being alone is some kind of disease. Really, it won't kill you. One time, a woman I was dating asked me, "What would I ever do without you?" I replied, drily, "The same thing you did before you met me, presumably." This line is not recommended for use on women who don't understand your sense of humor (she did, and I knew it, or I wouldn't have said that), but hell, it's true. You can be a complete person all by yourself. In fact, I'd say it's a prerequisite to having a successful relationship.
posted by kindall at 8:25 PM on November 20, 2002

*nods his head in agreement with kindall*

Although... being a teenager... and largely hormone driven... it's hard to...
posted by spidre at 8:31 PM on November 20, 2002

I seriously think there's some "intellectual" value to the Ladder Theory site. It was presented in an anti-intellectual type fashion, so people have dismissed it. Since The Casanova Complex is out of print, may be worth posting to the front page about it, get a thread started on this topic that didn't start with a likely-to-offend post.

My comment about women liking to be abused was just to point out that it's not all men's fault. It's easy to get sex from a woman who likes to be abused, women who like to be abused are easy to find, and not being abusive will not get you laid with a woman who likes to be abused. It becomes a habit for a lot of men. You ask a guy why he treats women that way, he'll tell you, "Cause the bitches like it."

I don't think it's right. It's just one way men get women. A lot of women. More than their fair share. That's another reason women mistrust men. They've had more encounters with jerks because those guys go after more women.

As for deciding to "let the girl off the hook" and not stalk her, that was just an ironic way to point out the motivation of her previous stalker. There's an offensive and an inoffensive follow-up implied in that: 1) A woman talks about abusive ex-boyfriends or stalkers, I take that as a clear warning sign that this person may be unstable and I should tread carefully. 2) Well, I guess they're both offensive, but true. No matter what a woman does, forget about her if it's too much hassle. It's not worth going to jail just to prove you're right. Even assuming the guy just has a little bit of a mental problem, she really was "asking for it," stalking cannot be justified.
posted by son_of_minya at 8:48 PM on November 20, 2002

At work, I have lunch with a pretty varied group of people: Men and women, white folks and non-white folks, Americans and Canadians, liberals and conservatives. Yet, we all seem to have reached the same explanation for why relationships are difficult: (1) Men are Stupid; and (2) women are insane.

Luckily, I have a more rigiorous theory: (a) Men are stupid except when they're insane; and (b) women are insane except when they're stupid. (Sometimes both take place, but it presents a logical situation that's too difficult to diagram in two paragraphs.) This allows me to ask two simple questions to diagnose whatever problems have afflicted my personal life: (i) in what way am I being stupid or, in the alternative, crazy? (ii) in what way is the person I'm involved with being crazy or, in the alternative, stupid? Sometimes it helps to take a piece of paper and divide it into four quadrants -- and then scribble all over the paper before ripping it up, collapsing on the floor, and sobbing until you fall asleep to the sweet sounds of that Neil Diamond CD you've been playing for like two days straight....

Uh, sorry.
posted by subgenius at 10:33 PM on November 20, 2002

I'd love to hear others' theories.

1. Find an equal.

2. Marry him/her.

3. Continue to treat him/her with the same respect and passion.

Odd how easy, and wonderful, relationships can become. And how unlikely it is that anyone with that twit's mindest will actually discover this.
posted by MidasMulligan at 11:01 PM on November 20, 2002

Hey you! Yeah you. Up there. Will you marry me?

God I'm such a loser. I can't believe I wrote that.
posted by crasspastor at 11:10 PM on November 20, 2002

1. Find an equal.

2. Marry him/her.

3. Continue to treat him/her with the same respect and passion.

This fits in with ladder theory quite nicely. You find someone who has placed you on a roughly equal position on his / her ladder as they are on yours. Thus, a kind of equilibrium is reached. Problems occur when one is tempted to go for someone else higher up on the ladder, but such urges subside with time, something not covered by this particular examination of ladder theory, which deals mostly with the initial phase of a relationship.

Have we beaten this dead horse enough yet? :)
posted by Space Coyote at 11:12 PM on November 20, 2002

Oh yeah. *You* posted somewhere between 1:15 PM and 11:00 PM no later.
posted by crasspastor at 11:14 PM on November 20, 2002

MaddCutty, I am male, so lump me in with that bunch if you must, but do not categorize me with the sad, pathetic ilk that apparently run around with a constant raging hard on looking for the next woman to have sex with. I happen to find women interesting for more than sexual reasons, I find them useful as more than life support for a vagina. I think it would do you a lot of good to have a non-sexual relationship with a woman, not only will you find it much easier to use the bathroom without a constant erection, but you may learn some valuable lessons about the world. Here's some examples of what you could learn: Lesbians don't just need some "deep dicking" to "convert" them; Often when a woman says "no" she actually means no; When you are slapped or have a drink thrown in your face, its usually an indication that something you said/did was inappropriate; That waitress did not "want you" just because she smiled and said "thank you". Lessons like these can be valuable not only in everyday life but also within the context of a sexual relationship, which can also (you may find this out later) be an important interaction between two mutually respecting people.
posted by Pollomacho at 7:14 AM on November 21, 2002