An shocking act of terrorism
November 28, 2002 3:20 AM Subscribe
Israelis targeted in Kenya attacks
On the day of important primary elections in Israel as Prime Minister Ariel Sharon faces a party leadership challenge from Foreign Minister Binyamin Netanyahu ahead of January's general election, suicide car bombers have killed at least eight people at an Israeli-owned hotel in Mombasa, Kenya, just as two missiles were fired (but did not hit) at an Israeli jet that had taken off from the city's airport. The Kenyan ambassador to Israel suspects these attacks were carried out by al-Qaeda, and this theory is being checked on as I write.
On the day of important primary elections in Israel as Prime Minister Ariel Sharon faces a party leadership challenge from Foreign Minister Binyamin Netanyahu ahead of January's general election, suicide car bombers have killed at least eight people at an Israeli-owned hotel in Mombasa, Kenya, just as two missiles were fired (but did not hit) at an Israeli jet that had taken off from the city's airport. The Kenyan ambassador to Israel suspects these attacks were carried out by al-Qaeda, and this theory is being checked on as I write.
but why is Al Queda anti-Israel?
Eh? Al Queda might not be wholly pro-Palestinian but they are definitely anti-Israel. Remember Al Queda's final goal is an Islamist empire in the Middle East and somehow I don't think Israel fits into their scheme...
posted by PenDevil at 5:53 AM on November 28, 2002
Eh? Al Queda might not be wholly pro-Palestinian but they are definitely anti-Israel. Remember Al Queda's final goal is an Islamist empire in the Middle East and somehow I don't think Israel fits into their scheme...
posted by PenDevil at 5:53 AM on November 28, 2002
You see, this is where things seem to differ.
Everything I've seen on the TV (UK) suggests that Al Queda is anti American based on America's meddling in world affairs (I'll keep it as meddling to be in their eyes) rather than being anti JudeoChristian.
As a lay person, it also makes sense as they were originally attacking American interests, and then a world (tourist) interest. Now we have a purely Isreali target.
If you'll pardon the phrase, can anyone shoot me down? (request, not a challenge)
posted by twine42 at 6:14 AM on November 28, 2002
Everything I've seen on the TV (UK) suggests that Al Queda is anti American based on America's meddling in world affairs (I'll keep it as meddling to be in their eyes) rather than being anti JudeoChristian.
As a lay person, it also makes sense as they were originally attacking American interests, and then a world (tourist) interest. Now we have a purely Isreali target.
If you'll pardon the phrase, can anyone shoot me down? (request, not a challenge)
posted by twine42 at 6:14 AM on November 28, 2002
Al Qaeda is anti-American for three reasons.
From the Council on Foreign Relations' Q & A of current terrorism issues:
posted by Slithy_Tove at 7:02 AM on November 28, 2002
From the Council on Foreign Relations' Q & A of current terrorism issues:
Bin Laden and other militant Islamist leaders issued a 1998 manifesto denouncing the presence of American troops in Saudi Arabia, U.S. support of Israel, and sanctions against Iraq.So support for the state of Israel is one of the ways that the US is 'meddling in world affairs' that causes al Qaeda hate us. The CFR says that support for Israel is the least important of the three reasons above, but al Qaeda still hates Israel:
...antisemitism and hatred for Israel—portrayed as a colonial, artificial implant in the Arab world—are commonplace in bin Laden’s circles, even if they are not al-Qaeda’s leading motivations.The entire site is well worth reading. I don't agree with all of it, but overall it's pretty well balanced.
posted by Slithy_Tove at 7:02 AM on November 28, 2002
al Qaeda. They're not Spanish, for crying out loud.
twine42: Most likely it was some kind of SA-7 derivative; they're notoriously unreliable, probably why they used two in the first place (assuming that report is correct). They're not comparable to Stingers; it wasn't until the Afghan mujahedin replaced their Chinese-sourced SA-7 derivatives with Stingers that they began to be feared by the Soviet air force. Even today they're considered mainly effective against helicopters, and indeed it's though that an SA-7 type was used by the Chechens in downing that overloaded Russian transport chopper near Grozny a few months ago: talk about your sitting ducks.
If they have more of these, they'll need to get closer to the airport to fire them, before the jet starts to gain altitude and speed. And it's likely that El Al, at least, will start taking more aggressive flight paths out of Kenyan airports.
posted by dhartung at 9:51 AM on November 28, 2002
twine42: Most likely it was some kind of SA-7 derivative; they're notoriously unreliable, probably why they used two in the first place (assuming that report is correct). They're not comparable to Stingers; it wasn't until the Afghan mujahedin replaced their Chinese-sourced SA-7 derivatives with Stingers that they began to be feared by the Soviet air force. Even today they're considered mainly effective against helicopters, and indeed it's though that an SA-7 type was used by the Chechens in downing that overloaded Russian transport chopper near Grozny a few months ago: talk about your sitting ducks.
If they have more of these, they'll need to get closer to the airport to fire them, before the jet starts to gain altitude and speed. And it's likely that El Al, at least, will start taking more aggressive flight paths out of Kenyan airports.
posted by dhartung at 9:51 AM on November 28, 2002
The Kenyan ambassador to Israel suspects these attacks were carried out by al-Qaeda, and this theory is being checked on as I write.
In other words, the Kenyan ambassador doesn't know anything, and neither do you, but you nonetheless posted this to the front page of MetaFilter because...? We've been having quite a nice run here of non-news-related and news-related-but-not-breaking-or-sensationalistic-news posts since Matt frowned on the "All Sniper, All the Time" news postings. Let's try and keep it that way.
posted by JollyWanker at 10:01 AM on November 28, 2002
In other words, the Kenyan ambassador doesn't know anything, and neither do you, but you nonetheless posted this to the front page of MetaFilter because...? We've been having quite a nice run here of non-news-related and news-related-but-not-breaking-or-sensationalistic-news posts since Matt frowned on the "All Sniper, All the Time" news postings. Let's try and keep it that way.
posted by JollyWanker at 10:01 AM on November 28, 2002
JollyWanker: you're right. And so is y2karl in the other thread. And I, fool that I am, contributed to the problem by commenting. Mea culpa.
There's no perfect solution to the problem of MeFi being overwhelmed with partisan fight threads, but surely it's more helpful if those of us who care don't contribute to the problem by prolonging the thread.
Sorry, sorry. I'm outta here.
posted by Slithy_Tove at 10:16 AM on November 28, 2002
There's no perfect solution to the problem of MeFi being overwhelmed with partisan fight threads, but surely it's more helpful if those of us who care don't contribute to the problem by prolonging the thread.
Sorry, sorry. I'm outta here.
posted by Slithy_Tove at 10:16 AM on November 28, 2002
The military has developed laser jammers that complete confuse heat seeking missiles as they approach a plane. very high tech, and high maintenance.
Only one civilian airline has deployed the system, and its El Al. Thats why the missiles missed.
According to Salon.com though, every other airline is screwed though cuz airliners are easy targets for even the cheeziest Surface to Air missiles.
Happy Ramadan everyone
(Just a big coincedence that all 4 attacks are on Thanksgiving, I'm quite sure)
posted by Fupped Duck at 11:51 AM on November 28, 2002
Only one civilian airline has deployed the system, and its El Al. Thats why the missiles missed.
According to Salon.com though, every other airline is screwed though cuz airliners are easy targets for even the cheeziest Surface to Air missiles.
Happy Ramadan everyone
(Just a big coincedence that all 4 attacks are on Thanksgiving, I'm quite sure)
posted by Fupped Duck at 11:51 AM on November 28, 2002
Everything I've seen on the TV (UK) suggests that Al Queda is anti American based on America's meddling in world affairs (I'll keep it as meddling to be in their eyes) rather than being anti JudeoChristian.
No offence meant back at you either, but you must be very selective in your choice of information sources. From my own point of view, I'd have to say that the minority of what I read cites those reasons with the majority being more toward a general hatred of the west for cultural reasons, usually cited by the fanatics own words (rather than other's projections), with the reasons you cite as being more or less a front to keep the various western populace and intelligentia well covered with wool and busy infighting and to prompt support in the Islamic 'street'. (And perhaps also as the final straw rather than the root cause)
posted by HTuttle at 12:46 PM on November 28, 2002
No offence meant back at you either, but you must be very selective in your choice of information sources. From my own point of view, I'd have to say that the minority of what I read cites those reasons with the majority being more toward a general hatred of the west for cultural reasons, usually cited by the fanatics own words (rather than other's projections), with the reasons you cite as being more or less a front to keep the various western populace and intelligentia well covered with wool and busy infighting and to prompt support in the Islamic 'street'. (And perhaps also as the final straw rather than the root cause)
posted by HTuttle at 12:46 PM on November 28, 2002
but the linked article says the airline was Arkia, not El Al.
posted by shoos at 1:47 PM on November 28, 2002
posted by shoos at 1:47 PM on November 28, 2002
Well, either way I don't think Al-Quada really likes isreal anyway. It certanly makes more sense for them to be going after Isreal then it does for them to go after france, or Australia.
At the very least, Isreal is certanly a 'western' style nation.
As far as to why they used a truck bomb rather then dropping a bomb from a light plane... well, a truck can carry much heavyer loads then a plane, obviously.
posted by delmoi at 2:43 PM on November 28, 2002
At the very least, Isreal is certanly a 'western' style nation.
As far as to why they used a truck bomb rather then dropping a bomb from a light plane... well, a truck can carry much heavyer loads then a plane, obviously.
posted by delmoi at 2:43 PM on November 28, 2002
HTuttle : No offence meant back at you either, but you must be very selective in your choice of information sources.
Not selective... just limited by design. I tend to get bored by world news. It tends to be too damned depressing. Good news doesn't sell. *shrug* So I only tend to read articles that grab my attention. And Al Qaeda isn't something that tends to thrill me too much, appart from when Blair is putting us in greater risk. Okay, that's risking a flamey effort and I appologise, but it's the way I tend to read the news.
Hell, most of my news reading in Ananova's Quirkies for the 'news' server on my employer's 'ISP'. ;)
posted by twine42 at 2:51 PM on November 28, 2002
Not selective... just limited by design. I tend to get bored by world news. It tends to be too damned depressing. Good news doesn't sell. *shrug* So I only tend to read articles that grab my attention. And Al Qaeda isn't something that tends to thrill me too much, appart from when Blair is putting us in greater risk. Okay, that's risking a flamey effort and I appologise, but it's the way I tend to read the news.
Hell, most of my news reading in Ananova's Quirkies for the 'news' server on my employer's 'ISP'. ;)
posted by twine42 at 2:51 PM on November 28, 2002
but you nonetheless posted this to the front page of MetaFilter because...?
Because it's relatively rare for a terrorist attack to be conducted against Israelis outside of Israel. Because it's not common for terrorist acts to be committed in Kenya. Because, for those reasons, it's actually worth discussing?
By the way JollyWanker, perhaps you might consider posting a link to MeFi before making negative comments about links?
Anyway, enough from me. If you want to discuss it anymore with me, take it to e-mail, or MetaTalk.
posted by tomcosgrave at 4:27 PM on November 28, 2002
Because it's relatively rare for a terrorist attack to be conducted against Israelis outside of Israel. Because it's not common for terrorist acts to be committed in Kenya. Because, for those reasons, it's actually worth discussing?
By the way JollyWanker, perhaps you might consider posting a link to MeFi before making negative comments about links?
Anyway, enough from me. If you want to discuss it anymore with me, take it to e-mail, or MetaTalk.
posted by tomcosgrave at 4:27 PM on November 28, 2002
According to Salon.com though, every other airline is screwed though cuz airliners are easy targets for even the cheeziest Surface to Air missiles.
Here's the article, btw.
posted by homunculus at 6:28 PM on November 28, 2002
Here's the article, btw.
posted by homunculus at 6:28 PM on November 28, 2002
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Erm... Someone has to explain to me how you can fire two missiles at a jet and miss with both? Somehow I doubt that they are going to be trying to anticipate the path of the jet, so I'd assume they were heat seeking (or something seeking) missiles. Odd.
What confuses me more, or why ram the foyer of the hotel if you've just had a light aircraft buzz the place and drop bombs on it?
Oh, and maybe I'm being dense, but why is Al Queda anti-Israel? Or does this come down to the often quoted idea that most Jews out in Israel are of American origins? (and no, I don't have a link to back that up. sorry.)
posted by twine42 at 5:24 AM on November 28, 2002