Comments on: Xmas as a Jewish holiday

Xmas as a Jewish holiday

maudlin — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:29:16 -0800

Have you ever wondered what Xmas would be like if it were a Jewish Holiday? Precisely defined rules for preparing for the holiday, procuring and decorating the tree, cooking the festive meal, giving gifts, and all other seasonal celebrations. With footnotes! Songs! More footnotes! Riddles! Even more footnotes! [via Making Light] (This is a Geocities site, so don't all rush there at once and overload it, OK?)

By: lynda

lynda — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:43:04 -0800

I was lucky enough to be in the right place at the right time to see this before the geocities site blew up (which it will) If anyone's interested, here is the google cache

By: maudlin

maudlin — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:46:08 -0800

Google cache! (D'oh!) I'll remember to hunt for that next time.

By: mathowie

mathowie — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:46:44 -0800

Looks like it's available at lots of other servers, as it appears the geocities site isn't the orignal.

By: dgaicun

dgaicun — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:52:49 -0800

I thought X was Jewish. btw how come Mormons are considered Christian, but Christians aren't considered Jewish? btw2, thanks Matt.

By: Steve_at_Linnwood

Steve_at_Linnwood — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:56:37 -0800

Have you ever wondered what Xmas would be like if it were a Jewish Holiday? I am going to go out on a limb here, and guess it would be just like Chanukah?

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:57:59 -0800

"...how come Mormons are considered Christian..." To fundamentalist Christians, they aren't.

By: oissubke

oissubke — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 13:58:21 -0800

btw how come Mormons are considered Christian, but Christians aren't considered Jewish? That's debatable. A lot of Christians would argue that Mormons aren't Christian, because we don't follow traditional Catholic/Protestant doctrine. It doesn't really matter though, since Judaism and Christianity are just parts of Mormonism anyway. ;-)

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:03:46 -0800

"...Judaism and Christianity are just parts of Mormonism anyway" I'm sure the families of all the Holocaust victims the Mormons have baptized by proxy think that's just funny as hell.

By: dgaicun

dgaicun — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:08:39 -0800

To fundamentalist Christians, they aren't. Yeah, but fundamentalist Christians represent Christianity like Islamists represent Islam

By: oissubke

oissubke — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:09:34 -0800

I'm sure the families of all the Holocaust victims the Mormons have baptized by proxy think that's just funny as hell. I was getting all excited that we'd have another off-topic Mormon-bashing thread (even got my boxing gloves out), but then you Godwinized it right off the bat. Thanks a lot.

By: dgaicun

dgaicun — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:10:52 -0800

Yeah, that was pretty weak M_C_D.

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:18:28 -0800

Whatever. I guess it's OK to insult Christians and Jews, but Mormons are off-limits?

By: four panels

four panels — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:20:05 -0800

Oissubke, I generally disagree with everything you say, but your sense of humor carries well.

By: oissubke

oissubke — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:22:04 -0800

Whatever. I guess it's OK to insult Christians and Jews, but Mormons are off-limits? Who's insulting them? Judaism is historically and culturally part of Christianity. Judaism and Christianity are historically part of Mormonism. I was being a bit facetious, sure, but you're the one posting links about how I'm not really a Christian and how I'm offensive to holocaust victims. Chill out, dude.

By: dgaicun

dgaicun — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:22:55 -0800

No religion was insulted (including Mormonism). oissubke is the one who was insulted. I'll demonstrate what I mean, by invoking the Holocaust the next time you try to make a light-hearted comment. I'm sure you'll consider it fair behavior.

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:25:14 -0800

"I'll demonstrate what I mean, by invoking the Holocaust the next time you try to make a light-hearted comment." Whatever turns you on.

By: wackybrit

wackybrit — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:27:16 -0800

I think the only reason Christmas is taken rather informally by many people nowadays is that most people who call themselves 'Christians' aren't Christians in the strictest sense of the word. In national surveys, almost 80% of Brits say they are 'Church of England' (the Church of England being a non-papal branch of Christianity). However, does 80% of the population go to church? No. In fact, less than 5% does. What percentage prays on a regular basis? I bet it's considerably less than 80%! What percentage lives by Christian ideals? We won't even go there.. So the only reason we often take Christmas in an informal way is because even when we say we are, we're not really proper Christians after all.. and the Jews have much more determination in their faith.

By: danOstuporStar

danOstuporStar — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:28:26 -0800

umm, yeah, mormons. anyway ... yay! thanks for the first link i ever got off metafilter which will score points with my father-in-law.

By: oissubke

oissubke — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:35:25 -0800

I think the only reason Christmas is taken rather informally by many people nowadays ... My approach has generally been to let Christmas (the social holiday) be Christmas, and to set aside some day before or after it to actually specifically celebrate Christ. It's no fun to try to make it into a purely religious holiday, since you lose the social holiday, and vice versa, so I usually just split 'em up. Besides, if you believe in Christ, you ought to be celebrating Him year round anyway. :-)

By: four panels

four panels — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:36:15 -0800

However, does 80% of the population go to church? No. In fact, less than 5% does. Religion is more of a cultural tradition than a supernatural worshipping concurrent with God. Although there remain those that are convinced of the literal act of turning water into wine. I remain convinced that Peace is possible, yet as I grow older, history and time seem to show otherwise. Maybe when water turnes into wine.

By: HTuttle

HTuttle — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:36:32 -0800

Yeah, but fundamentalist Christians represent Christianity like Islamists represent Islam Ah...there's the segue I was waiting to see!

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:42:35 -0800

the Jews have much more determination in their faith Not to disparage the other MeFiJews [hi Judith!] but one of the great thing about Judaism is that you have the option of claiming it culturally while not having to claim it religiously at all. Christmastime is an ironically problematic time of year to celebrate the non-adoption of a domainant culture [Hanukkah] but this year it's already over, so make a mental note when you are trying to figure out how to say "Happy Holidays" to all your Jewish friends.

By: vbfg

vbfg — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:55:49 -0800

"Thanksgiving". That would be Jewish-American then?

By: silusGROK

silusGROK — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:58:16 -0800

Light-hearted-link-turned-deep-metaphysical-discussion-derailed-by-post-modern-angst-and-ad-hominem. Gotta love it. *sigh* Anywho. The link was funny and the Crazy Eddie reference at the end was particularly grin-inducing. Thanks maudlin!

By: mr_roboto

mr_roboto — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:12:31 -0800

...make a mental note when you are trying to figure out how to say "Happy Holidays" to all your Jewish friends. There's always the New Year. Then again, I suppose my Jewish friends may have celebrated that back in September.... You're right; this is tricky!

By: Postroad

Postroad — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:19:37 -0800

let's kill everyone! fuck them all--god will be done, mother.

By: scody

scody — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:26:09 -0800

I used to think the Maccabees were Irish. Which, I concluded (using incomparable Age 6 Logic), meant that we were Catholic and Jewish. And which explains why all my drawings of Christmas trees were suddenly topped off with Stars of David.

By: quonsar

quonsar — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:37:10 -0800

jesus was a dreidel spinner!

By: oissubke

oissubke — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:43:30 -0800

jesus was a dreidel spinner! He's not the only one

By: rushmc

rushmc — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:50:56 -0800

From another angle, the differences are trivial.

By: Cerebus

Cerebus — Tue, 10 Dec 2002 20:52:41 -0800

This is by far one of the funniest things I've read in a long, long time. But I guess you'd have to have some exposure to the Talmud to really appreciate it. I'll be forwarding this link to my observant Jewish friends. Great post, maudlin.

By: sgt.serenity

sgt.serenity — Wed, 11 Dec 2002 01:38:49 -0800

er....christians are jewish.

By: davidmsc

davidmsc — Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:04:57 -0800

Better idea: let's make New Year's Eve the big day/night for exchanging gifts. Before you dismiss this idea out of hand, consider several factors: (1) it is accepted as a "holiday" by more people (or at least acknowledged, via the changing of the calendar) than christmas, hannukah, kwanzaa, or other December holidays (2) everybody is festive and cheerful, with no unearned "guilt" over the "secret shame" of actually feeling good about receiving gifts (3) none of that lying-to-kids-crap about Santa Claus (which I did for a number of years with my kids, but never felt good about it) (4) what better way to start the new year than by surprising each other with gifts? IMPLEMENTATION: Easy. You can still use a tree (symbol of new growth, life, etc) as the centerpiece of your holiday decorating, but instead of red & green, I think that white & blue seem to be better suited for a New Year holiday. Heck, you can even put up a Festivus pole (with the requisite "feats of strength" and "airing of grievances," natch). Of course, everyone is free to decorate (or not) as they see fit, but a move away from traditional green-n-red would help spur the nascent movement. The kicker, of course, is that instead of opening presents on christmas morning, you open them at midnight on New Year's Eve --what a great way to start the new year! And as I mentioned -- instead of worrying about whether your intended receipients celebrate christmas, hannukah, kwanzaa, or some other holiday (and if they do, does it mean the same to them as it does to you?), you can purchase, give, and receive gifts comfortable in the knowledge that everyone -- with very, very exceptions in America, anyway -- celebrates the New Year at the same time, on the same day, for the same reason: to ring in a new year with good cheer & goodwill. AND: Christians are not Jewish, and Jews are not Christians. Mormons are Christians, as are Protestants, Catholics, Baptists, Lutherans, etc. And "Jewish" is a religion, NOT a culture. Being an atheist, it's much easier to spot false differences and align religions according to belief, rather than "cultural" differences.

By: mdn

mdn — Wed, 11 Dec 2002 20:19:27 -0800

but christmas with the tree and santa and all that is not a christian holiday; it's the pagan celebration of the winter solstice - the darkest day of the year fell on Dec 25 by the julian calendar so people brought greenery inside and made fires and exchanged gifts and feasted and drank egg nog. The jesus stuff was just attached to that by constantine in 300-something, whenever he converted... or was it 400-something? Anyway. So david, there's no real need to switch to new year's...

By: rushmc

rushmc — Wed, 11 Dec 2002 21:48:34 -0800

instead of opening presents on christmas morning, you open them at midnight on New Year's Eve I think a lot of children would be asleep and a lot of adults would be passed out by midnight....