June 23, 2000

12:43 PM

Yesterday Justice Philip Cummins looked down at the two clean-cut young men in the dock as they sat close together on a long, leather bench. He condemned the brief, severe assault that caused Hibbins' death. He said their actions could not be justified as a citizen's arrest of a suspect because they punished Hibbins instead of apprehending him. However, he said, they were not vigilantes because their conduct was not premeditated. Instead it occurred because of an unplanned upsurge of emotion in both men. The judge said their behavior belonged in the least culpable category of manslaughter because they were decent young men who entered the park not looking for trouble, who reasonably believed a woman had been raped and who were then caught up in a perverse confluence of events for which they were truly sorry.
posted by murray_kester (10 comments total)

What a tragic series of mistakes.

What Dieber and Whitesides did is sickening, but understandable; had I been in their shoes, I doubt I could have done better.

-Mars


posted by Mars Saxman at 5:38 PM on June 23, 2000

In all of this, though, what will be truly interesting is how Murray turns this discussion to narcissistic personality disorder.
posted by delfuego at 6:12 PM on June 23, 2000

*sigh* Not if he can get someone else to do it first.
posted by harmful at 9:07 PM on June 23, 2000

Dammit then, if the post preview doesn't inspire hesitancy in others, why should it do so in me? I was going to point out that this recalls The Stranger, of course turning out 'better'. But what a mess.And this top-level post demonstrates a possible (though I suppose not major, if you feel fine breaking eggs) problem with shit lists I was thinking of earlier-- what if the shitlisted one repents? In my mind, Murray has more than made up for the earlier 'transgression' by pointing out this story. Of course you don't agree.
posted by EngineBeak at 9:16 PM on June 23, 2000

My interest in the article was the "unplanned upsurge of emotion" ...whence did it originate? My guess is that it was a defense mechanism based on a primitive form of ...wait for it... - narcissistic
rage .... hitherto repressed within their otherwise well-adjusted psyches...

posted by murray_kester at 11:30 PM on June 23, 2000

Would this be a good time for me to use my uncanny infamous power which has put me on everyone's shitlist? It appears some people don't like how I start with one topic and then drift to another, and because of that ability of mine, some would probably prefer I not participate in MeFi.

In one of the many tellings of the story of the tragic greek youth Narcissus, it is truly Echo's story. Narcy getting caught up in his own reflection isn't really the lesson. Narcissism is a red herring.

There's a point when you should just let it go. Otherwise you'll end up like Echo, with all your flesh eroded away and your bones fossilized. You either move on with your life and accept the rejection, or you sit and stew and let it eat at you until there's nothing left but the words you left behind, slowly fading away.

It's your choice, Murray.

Personally, I'd rather talk about the shelf life of twinkies. I mean do they really keep their white creamy filling for twenty years or more? Anybody got any links out there that can prove or disprove that?


posted by ZachsMind at 5:22 AM on June 24, 2000

ZachsMind - You're fine. I don't know about this "shitlist" you are talking about. Whoever keeps that list sounds like a very dull individual.

I've experimented with twinkies, but I found it very difficult to standardize the test procedures. For example, how do you determine the interval to test the creaminess?

While it might seem obvious to just set out a twinkie and come back 20 years later, this is very impractical outside of a tightly controlled lab environment. You have to keep guests, dogs, etc from eating your experiment. You have to take it with you any time you move. These are hard problems to solve for the amateur twinkie investigator.

It would make more sense to have twenty twinkies and then test one each year. That way you would have some data even if you had to abandon things after a few years. Unfortunately this introduces new problems. After a year or two the filling may LOOK fine, but it's mainly composted of emulsified oils. Which may turn slightly rancid. How do you know this hasn't "gone bad" unless you taste it?

For the first few years you can get around this by getting your friends a little tipsy and then saying something like, "Hey, does this taste funny to you?" But after just a few years people find out about what you are doing, and they refuse to eat twinkies if you might have had anything to do with them.

Another complication is that after you start the experiment you notice that a twinkie will start to develop a "crust" a few weeks after it is taken out of the wrapper. And you start to wonder about the shelf life of twinkies kept in the wrapper. Or twinkies out of the wrapper, but kept in the fridge. Or twinkies kept in the wrapper but put on a sunny window ledge.

Very quickly you find yourself surrounded by hundreds of twinkies kept under various storage schemes, with few options available for testing your original hypothesis. Also keep in mind that you have committed your self to maintaining this for twenty years. Not pretty.

In the end it's just easier to accept that the "twinkie issue" will just remain one of life's mysteries.

Or I suppose you could just put a bunch of them in a time capsule. But then you'd never know the outcome. Oh well.
posted by y6y6y6 at 9:35 AM on June 24, 2000

You're fine. I don't know about this "shitlist" you are talking about. Whoever keeps that list sounds like a very dull individual.

Yeah, what the hell is going on here lately? Baylink is posting "Everyone hates me" messages too.

There's no "shit list" here that I know of...

And yes that includes you too, Murray. I'm actually glad you want to play by the rules, and be a member here. (though I admit some of those posts above *were* pretty funny) .

Just so you know, I read the article and your post. I didn't comment because I didn't think there was anything I can add to this discussion.

If a comment needs to be added to get this subject on track, then here goes:

I hope that Ms. Tsionis can live with herself knowing that her lies caused a man's death, and disrupted two other lives (though it strikes me that those guys were looking for trouble to begin with).

posted by EricBrooksDotCom at 10:01 AM on June 24, 2000

The lowdown "ho" connection.
From a lying ho to to the brother of a HoHo, the shelf life of a Twinkie bridged the gap.



posted by nickyskye at 2:36 PM on June 24, 2000

Zach, you are sooooo right about the foolishness about pining away like Echo. It's counter-productive to brood. However, it is useful to learn from one's mistakes too. The trick is to strike a good balance between the two. Thanks for the advice, dude. It's very much appreciated.
posted by murray_kester at 2:24 AM on June 25, 2000