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Overdose on IRC?
January 21, 2003 11:20 PM   Subscribe

Overdose live on IRC? Brandon Carl Vedas, 21, takes a mix of drugs (methadone, klonopin, etc) while in front of his webcam and chatting on IRC. He overdoses, and dies with the webcam still on. IRC log of the coversation, a log of the channel after he died, and an an obituary listing. (via #mefi)
posted by malphigian (90 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

 
I'm aware that this might be a hoax, as are the others who were chatting about it in #mefi. But if it is one, it is fairly elaborate (right down to whois records on klonopin.com).
posted by malphigian at 11:21 PM on January 21, 2003


After reading the logs, I felt very sick.... hoax, or not...
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 11:23 PM on January 21, 2003


More proof that suicide is really just attention seeking (at least in the young and non-terminally ill).
posted by PenDevil at 11:23 PM on January 21, 2003


Apologies, the url I meant in my first comment there was klonopinz.com, which seems to have been his site.
posted by malphigian at 11:24 PM on January 21, 2003


Hoaxes such as the Kaycee Nicole thing have made people so wary about anything on-line that it is not hard to imagine someone saying "I have just OD'd" on IRC and no-one believing them. The cynical side of me wants to believe that this is yet another hoax, but it seems to have a ring of horrible truth about it.
posted by dg at 11:27 PM on January 21, 2003


After reading the logs, I felt very sick

You're not the only one, Steve. PenDevil's comment is not helping.
posted by hippugeek at 11:34 PM on January 21, 2003


4 grams mersh
Mersh? I only know that as a Rudy Rucker drug. Is this something anyone has heard of?
posted by thirteen at 11:41 PM on January 21, 2003


Over the years I've seen too many tragedies occur when a person does something incredibly stupid - with his friends cheering him on.

"Yeah man, keep on poppin them, get fucked up!"

"Nah he's alright, let him drink as much as he wants. I'm not his mom."

"You don't look fucked up enough, shoot this"

A few years ago I was in this cheering section, because well, it was amusing believing us kids were invincible and all. Unfortunately it always takes something horrible to happen before we finally figure out the consequences of being so ridiculously stubborn.
posted by Stan Chin at 11:48 PM on January 21, 2003


Crikey :(
posted by nthdegx at 12:07 AM on January 22, 2003


Jesus, that's scary. Especially the people egging him on. That's sick.

PenDevil's comment is not helping.

I agree, hippugeek. PenDevil, care to explain more fully what you mean? What's your evidence for such a generalization about suicide?
posted by Vidiot at 12:11 AM on January 22, 2003


Ok maybe I'm being a bit harsh., but in this case (if it's not a hoax) committing suicide in a public manner there is definitely some degree of attention seeking to it. Not all suicide attempts are, obviously depression and other mental illnesses play an important role, apologies for that. But there are cases where suicide, or at least attempted suicide (and this is probably the difference, attempted versus actual completion) is an attention seeking goal.
posted by PenDevil at 12:20 AM on January 22, 2003


While we'll never know what "ripper's" intentions were, I'm not convinced he was trying to commit suicide. Attention, yes. Suicide, no. From the looks of what he wrote ("I told u I was hardcore," etc), it looks more like what I used to call "drug user machismo." I had an ex-boyfriend like that...always trying to push his own physical limits, and always eager to talk about it and say "Yeah, it was no big deal. I told you I was hardcore." He, like "ripper," eventually learned a final lesson about his body's limitations.

Regardless, what a sad, sad story. Sure: it could be a hoax. But a cautionary one, regardless.
posted by arielmeadow at 12:34 AM on January 22, 2003


Reduced down, particularly fucked up parts for those interested. This is all incredibly fucking sad.

[04:10] grphish dont OD on us ripper
[04:16] ripper my mom is in the next room doing crozzwordz
[04:26] ripper hrees my cell
[04:26] ripper in fase anything goe .. wrong
[04:26] ripper call if I look dead
[04:47] smoke2k he is going to drink another bottle of methadone I think
[04:47] grphish NO DUDE
[04:47] hast i'd call up poison control
[04:48] ripper I took 4 80mg bottles
[04:49] oea i love you
[04:49] grphish its sad to see you die like this
[04:49] ripper fuck u
[04:49] ripper pusys
[04:49] ripper u are so fucking stupid
[04:54] smoke2k hes fuckin not responding
[04:54] oea look at the cam
[05:04] ripper I'm fukcin
[05:11] smoke2k I am tired and about to get off
[05:14] thekat hes fine
[05:15] oea Why is he just sitting there
[05:21] smoke2k Oea what is poison control saying
[05:21] oea they said call 911 right now and he is almost assured dead if we dont'
[05:23] oea i am on line with 911 is this the right choice?
[05:24] thekat NO
[05:24] oea okay talked my way out of it didn't give them any info

posted by Civil_Disobedient at 1:00 AM on January 22, 2003


When you're young, chicks dig scars, and glory is forever.

When you're old, like me, any death by misadventure just seems irredeemably sad.

I'm not sure if that's a definition of old, or if seeing other avoidable events not avoided is how I got old.

The guy that did shots at a bar, as his friends cheered him on, until he was dead.

The girl killed in high school as a passenger in a drag race gone bad.

A guy I knew in high school that wrecked a motorcycle, not even going very fast, and broke his neck against a tree that couldn't have been 5 inches across, on graduation night.

The students in our little college town every year that continuously fall of roofs and fire escapes, get run over by trains and car, set themselves on fire, blow themselves up, crash cars, and just plain old OD.

Drunken drownings, accidental shootings, diving accidents, and suicides, suicides, and more suicides.

All surrounded by concentric circles of sadness, running from parents, through siblings and grandparents, all the way out to someone that knows someone that knew the poor dead bastard.

All for what? After seeing enough of it, I still don't understand. Wear your seatbelt, don't drive drunk, that stuff might bite you in the ass if you keep taking it, please, don't do that, you're really scaring the shit out of me now.

*sigh* It's probably just having seen too much, and knowing that if something happened to my daughter then there just wouldn't be enough of me left to even be worth scraping up and putting in the dustbin.

So I'll stick with my original point, which is just that these things are always so very sad.
posted by dglynn at 1:09 AM on January 22, 2003


wow. that's about the most disturbing thing i've seen online. what's particularly upsetting to me is that from what amount i could bear to read it's not entirely clear that he even wanted to attempt suidicde.

[sigh] proper respect for the chemicals, kids.
nothing more "hardcore" than being dead, right? [double sigh]
posted by juv3nal at 1:18 AM on January 22, 2003


Ugh. It seemed like only one or two people saw the danger, and everyone else was busy egging him on. Peer pressure sucks.

[05:06] smoke2k hes severely fucked up I guess but coherent enough to do computer tasks
[05:06] oea ?
[05:06] smoke2k he ceases to amaze me


Seldom were a grammatical error more apt.
[This is sad]
posted by Galvatron at 1:18 AM on January 22, 2003


This is the most horrifying thing I have read online, not despite the irony, but because of it. IRC is unique in its technological complexity and predominantly groupwide communication. Unlike the telephone or instant messaging (or DCC chat, I guess) IRC demands detachment. Yes, we may search the web while IMing, or clip toenails on the phone, but the contact is one-on-one. IRC, in comparison, is virtually anonymous.

The webcam compounds the horror. The users saw the death take place in real time, but could do nothing, prevented by the ease of online anonymity. The grainy flickering and jerking of webcams imparts a dreamy sort of unreality. Webcams, although they have been available for years, are still a fairly novel technology. And the majority of those webcams are used for pornography, the ultimate fantasy world. On some subconscious level, Brandon became no different to the viewers than a cam girl flashing her breasts in exchange for Amazon scrip.

Most of the channel, it seems, were already intoxicated. A few cheered him on, along with the eggdrop bot's automated messages. Those who were worried about Brandon were also worried about being busted, or busting other people. Those who egged him on didn't think he'd actually do it.

Even when the situation turned serious, the bot continued with posting mindless stoner URLs. Chat continued to be sarcastic and breezy, the topic updated and reupdated with a laundry list of drugs.

The detachment of IRC makes the harsh reality of death that much more painful. IRC chat logs have a certain quality that makes them unique and easily distinguishable. This has that quality. The obituary is what convinces me, though. There really is a South Mountain Park Ramada. This is no Kaycee.
posted by LimePi at 1:21 AM on January 22, 2003


A few minutes later "_thor_" joined #mefi asking about metafilter and how to get links removed; that the family hasn't given permission to show that.

If it's fake then the mefi detective squad will pull it out.

If it's real then people will take each other more cautiously on irc. It's healthy to read.
posted by holloway at 1:53 AM on January 22, 2003



[04:26] ripper hrees my cell
[04:26] ripper in fase anything goe .. wrong
[04:26] ripper call if I look dead


Whats the point of carrying out a suicide in front of a bunch of people - yes i know they werent there - when theres a chance someone going to do something about it - obviously nothing was done in time here thou
posted by monkeyJuice at 2:04 AM on January 22, 2003


This entry on Ripper's memorial guestbook is more upsetting still.

I was last to talk to him and feel so terrible I wasn't able to talk him out of his insanity. I am sorry my deepest appologies
Cary (Cement)

January 17, 2003


posted by jack_mo at 2:11 AM on January 22, 2003


You're not the only one, Steve. PenDevil's comment is not helping.

You're entitled to your opinions and feelings. So is everyone.

I don't think dying is an evil, 'sick', or even sad thing. He went the way he wanted to go. What is so sad about that? That's excellent! Much better than being randomly plowed down by a bus one day. That'd be tragic.

So while I respect you're entitled to think this is sick, sad, tragic, or whatever, please respect that some of us are entitled to laugh, smile or be blazé about this. Not all of us believe death is bad or 'sick', y'know. I, for one, think it's great.

He got what he wanted! And when I read this post, I laughed for him, I really did, he did what he wanted and got what he wanted. What beats that? Rock heaven in peace, Brandon!
posted by wackybrit at 2:12 AM on January 22, 2003


Understand that this was not a suicide.
posted by Keyser Soze at 2:17 AM on January 22, 2003


... but rather a terrible, terrible overdose.

From the IRC logs it seemed as if he had something to prove, and death was the last thing on his list.
posted by futureproof at 2:19 AM on January 22, 2003


imho, regardless of whether or not suicide is a call for help, regardless of whether ripper was attempting to commit suicide, regardless of whether or not he was engaged in activity that many of us would consider foolhardy at best, if this is indeed not a hoax (which it appears not to be), there is a young man dead, a future lost, and a family that deserves our condolences.

Insofar as I, personally, am concerned, the means of one's demise is of little consequence. It was a very sad day in that boy's house, and there is not much we can say about anything to make that any less true.
posted by babylon at 2:26 AM on January 22, 2003


The worst part is how Smoke2k, the guy who was telling him to "eat more", reacts when the kid dies and people are trying to call 911:

[05:22] smoke2 k he might just be fucked up and not have stuff straight
[05:22] smoke2 k you could really fucking get him arrested
[05:22] smoke2 k damn this is hard call
[05:22] smoke2 k yall make it
[05:22] smoke2 k good night
[05:22] * Smoke2k has quit IRC (Leaving: )

posted by Ljubljana at 2:31 AM on January 22, 2003


futureproof said: death was the last thing on his list.

On the surface, you're right. As in:

<Oea> do you want to die or what?
<ripper> nah


But he was consistently told it was a lethal dose, seemed to know that himself and said he 'knew what he was doing'. You can say you don't want to die, yet still have a death wish. Anyone who dabbles in mass volumes of drugs is on a death wish. He caused his own death directly with the intervention of no-one. He knew it was a lethal dose. Therefore, suicide.

babylon said: there is a young man dead, a future lost, and a family that deserves our condolences.

Hear hear. For his family this will probably be tragic, but from his viewpoint, he was on a death wish, and got what he wanted.. about as tragic as a suicide bomber's death. One has to wonder what sort of life someone with that mental fragility would have had anyway.

If you find death sad, then well, be sad. But if you think death is a better place for desperate weak individuals (as I do) then wish him every success. I do.

Ljubljana said: The worst part is how Smoke2k, the guy who was telling him to "eat more", reacts

It actually seems quite rational, if a little careless. Since these guys are all hardcore druggies, they expect each other not to be taking lethal doses. He could have just passed out, and would have been megabusted if caught (as in 10+ years in jail for the substances he had on him).
posted by wackybrit at 2:44 AM on January 22, 2003


Most (if not all) of those substances were prescribed to him by his doctor.

Also, I still don't know if he really, really knew he would die.

He was trying to prove how hard-core he was, he had taken crazy amounts of drugs before and lived. He said he had a really high tolerance.

Anyways... it is truly sad to see this happen to anyone.
posted by futureproof at 2:59 AM on January 22, 2003


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~shoa
I'm fukcin
posted by Pretty_Generic at 3:36 AM on January 22, 2003


first internet-based darwin award winner?
posted by andrew cooke at 3:39 AM on January 22, 2003


[05:24] [thekat] NO
[05:24] [thekat] NO
[05:24] [thekat] NO
[05:24] [thekat] NO
[05:24] [thekat] NO
[05:24] [thekat] NO
[05:24] [thekat] NO
[05:24] [thekat] NO
[05:24] [thekat] NO
[05:24] [oea] lolol

posted by Pretty_Generic at 3:44 AM on January 22, 2003


...

I don't... quite know what to say, except "that's terrible".
posted by sailoreagle at 4:36 AM on January 22, 2003


By the way, it's looking less and less like a hoax. I was curious and went through the guestbook at the AZ paper's obit and googled some of the names therein...they exist, and in the cities specified.
posted by Vidiot at 5:09 AM on January 22, 2003


Okay... someone educate me... was this irc channel a channel for druggies or just a random group?

It's interesting to see the obits painting him whiter than white rather than imply he died of an overdose of prescription medicines to try and kick a habit - apparently unsucessfully. I appricitae you're not going to slag the dead off (at least not in an offical role you aren't) but it's very strange to my mind...
posted by twine42 at 5:22 AM on January 22, 2003


Many who signed the guestbook also mentioned the shroomery in one way or another.

They are talking about his death on the message boards at that site.
posted by probablysteve at 5:26 AM on January 22, 2003


well, it's a big ass nasty world and drugs are only one possible avenue of self destruction. frankly, i'm amazed i've made it to damn near 50. often in dark moments i have wondered why i have bothered. i'm sort of intrigued by the reaction - there's nothing special about this because he was chatting on irc. every weekend hundreds die, many of them youths, in incidents involving substance abuse, in situations where there were plenty of people around to witness it but who could or would do little to avert the result. usually this involves alcohol and automobiles. how do methadone and irc findamentally change this into something more horrible? they don't.
posted by quonsar at 5:27 AM on January 22, 2003 [1 favorite]


Last time I checked, methadone was a highly controlled substance. How the hell did this kid get 320 mg. of it?
posted by Dreama at 5:33 AM on January 22, 2003


How depressing. I hope he did have great sex earlier that fateful evening.

The moral of the story is: drug cocktails are a recipe for disaster. The quantity and variety of drugs that he was ingesting make the speedball that killed John Belushi look like an A & W root beer float.

I'm curious as to why methadone and klonopine were his main drugs of choice, since they don't really produce a euphoric high (or so I was led to believe).
posted by Devils Slide at 5:33 AM on January 22, 2003


Devils Slide - Klonopin is an antidepressant which some abusers get a buzz from. I suspect his drugs of choice were more likely the drugs he had access to.
posted by DBAPaul at 5:49 AM on January 22, 2003


Well, you're right, quonsar, in that the methadone doesn't really change anything about it, fundamentally, and neither does the fact that it happened 'live on IRC'.

But - and I don't mean to seem cold here - I'm fascinated that it happened in this way, if it actually happened, with a virtual crowd of onlookers, and by their responses as they started to think that he might actually be dying, and when they realized he was. It's sad, I suppose, for his family, and desperately stupid, of course. But it points the way to the future.

Brave new world, fully of cute bunnies with pancakes on their heads, and other stuff too.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:56 AM on January 22, 2003


Wackybrit — whether he had a death wish or not, he asked these people to call his phone if he 'looked dead.' There is a world of difference between having a death wish and wanting to die in the here and now. I am a very strong believer in not stopping people from committing suicide. I used to frequent a newsgroup, which I won't name for fear of bringing the wrath of self-righteous assholes like PenDevil down upon it, where people talked about suicide. This was not a nice happy support group for folks who wanted to be cured; this was a group where people discussed the relative merits of various methods, among other things.

There were a couple of failed suicide attempts, and a couple of successful ones, while I was there. Lots of suicide notes got posted. Neither I nor any other member of the group would have dreamed of trying to intervene. But I think this was different.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 6:21 AM on January 22, 2003


Brave new world, fully of cute bunnies with pancakes on their heads, and other stuff too.
isn't it wonderful how the internet is going to save us all from ourselves?!
posted by quonsar at 6:22 AM on January 22, 2003


Jeez it's easy to get labelled as a "self-righteous asshole" in this place. You people give it away like it's Christmas... But anyway don't let that stop you explaining where my views (which I kinda retracted, you did read my second posting right?) are wrong.
posted by PenDevil at 6:37 AM on January 22, 2003


Call me cold but I read something like this and wonder if someone like that isn't better off dead.

Also, it is very possible a few of those who witnessed this death live on IRC might smarten up and lead somewhat more productive lives as a result.

It is sad for his family, sure, but being detached as I am I think more good might come out of this in the long run.
posted by bondcliff at 7:00 AM on January 22, 2003


The IRC logs have been removed from that dovee.org site.
posted by elvissinatra at 7:23 AM on January 22, 2003


pendevil, take heart. people are weird about death. it's not just this place. anyone who doesn't immediately fall to the ground in an agony of anguished turmoil will surely be called cold and heartless by someone. you should have seen this place after 9/11. hell, i walked smack dab into the same circumstance very early in my mefi "career" after joking about a bizarre accident involving an elk, a freeway, a semitruck and a 16 year old celebrating his birthday. i was called a sociopath. don't let it get to you, people just react strangely to death. one of my younger brothers, when a beloved neighbor passed away years ago, refused to attend the funeral or have anything to do with the accompanying rituals. he was totally unhinged by the death. a neice was killed in a car wreck in 1995, and i thought he would lose his mind. nowadays as my parents approach the big 80, i am concerned for how he is going to react when the inevitable happens. point is, people are at varying levels of acceptance of the reality of death, and often react angrily when others apparently experience different emotions from their own. either that, or you ARE a self-righteous asshole! :-)
posted by quonsar at 7:23 AM on January 22, 2003


The logs are still there. Just use the links in the main post. I wish I knew who saved them and why.

This is the Kitty Genovese of the 21st century.

Does anyone know of a way to see a previous version of klonopinz.com, which is now down? Google doesn't have a cache.
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:47 AM on January 22, 2003


Wackybrit: It actually seems quite rational, if a little careless. Since these guys are all hardcore druggies, they expect each other not to be taking lethal doses.

But they all clearly saw that he was putting together a lethal dose. After Smoke2k hears how much the kid has ingested he says: "I wanna see if you survive or if you just black out" followed by "this is more fun than a drunk on cops missing teeth wearing a wife beater". He knows that the kid is about to self-terminate, and is enjoying it. In my book, that's sadistic, not rational.
posted by Ljubljana at 7:48 AM on January 22, 2003


PenDevil: Your view that anyone who commits suicide without a history of clinical diagnoses is just looking for attention is the self-righteous part. You don't have to be depressed to be suicidal, and you don't have to be seeking attention to do it in the company of others. Just maybe some people don't want to die alone and feel like having some human contact in their final moments rather than going off and ending themselves in a closet like the pariahs you seem to think they should be.

The asshole part comes from trying to tell other people what they should and should not do with their own bodies on their own time (which, granted, you did not explicitly do. However, there seemed to be a strong note of scorn for people who kill themselves to your post. If I misread that, I apologize.)
posted by IshmaelGraves at 7:57 AM on January 22, 2003


This is the Kitty Genovese of the 21st century.

I thought somebody actually called 911 in this case. Instead of just listening and watching.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 8:03 AM on January 22, 2003


seemed to be a strong note of scorn for people who kill themselves
and scorn for those who kill themselves is bad how? ishmaelgraves, you are so busy pointing out how the world is distorted by the filters other people view it through that you forgot you're looking through one too.
posted by quonsar at 8:10 AM on January 22, 2003


After having given the url to this story to some friends - who noticed a familiar name on one of the websites, they were able to contact them and confirm the validity of it all. That is, of course assuming the trust of this third party, but damn.. I can't believe I'm reading this, it's so sobering.

[This is depressing]
posted by shadow45 at 8:12 AM on January 22, 2003


I thought somebody actually called 911 in this case

apparently not.
posted by goddam at 8:19 AM on January 22, 2003


OK (jumps into fray) - I'll second PennDevil's comment (in a fashion): American parents spend less time with their kids than ever. This is due to the historic shift in American parenting, the move to 2 income families in the middle class. Both parents are working.

This apparent (accidental) OD death is very sad to me especially for it's wider societal implications.

Hey, this is obvious but...kids need attention and guidance. Ripper may not have been engaging in "attention getting" behavior consciously, but I'd guess that the motivation was strongly in his (subconscious) background. We all - even "adults" - engage in attention getting (like provocative Mefi posts?). The sad thing is that Ripper was too young to have learned how to get attention in a non-destructive way.

Don't forget - among teens and young adults, risky, self destructive behavior is "sexy"........up to a point.
Alienation is one factor that pushes such risk taking over the edge.......Americans live in a society which is perhaps unique among wealthy (and most poor) countries in it's neglect of children. -- Prioritization of kids? -we choose SUV's instead
posted by troutfishing at 8:24 AM on January 22, 2003


goddam: in THIS case, not the genovese case.
posted by quonsar at 8:25 AM on January 22, 2003


I thought somebody actually called 911 in this case

Goddam:apparently not.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. In the case of this overdose on IRC, not the Genovese case.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 8:26 AM on January 22, 2003


How did he get so much methadone? I thought methadone was only used to help people get off of heroin, and that its use was tightly controlled because of the risk of abuse (don't addicts have to show up at the clinic every day to get their dose?).

And if it somehow legitimate to let someone possess so much methadone at once, why wasn't his mother keeping a lid on it for him? I mean, you'd think if your child is already a drug addict you might want to be careful with abusable narcotics in your house, yes?

Sounds like this guy was just out to push it as far as he could. In other words, I agree with the death-wish assessment. If it weren't these drugs, he would have probably done it with anything else he could get his hands on - alcohol, tylenol, whatever.

I'd hate to be the mother who was in the next room doing crosswords while her son died in front of the computer. Yeesh.
posted by beth at 8:28 AM on January 22, 2003


Mortality--our own and that of our friends--and the fragility of life smacks us all in the face. Hard. Wow.
posted by Shane at 9:21 AM on January 22, 2003


sorry PST, that was my bad. i completely misread your statement.
posted by goddam at 9:25 AM on January 22, 2003


I don't think dying is an evil, 'sick', or even sad thing. He went the way he wanted to go. What is so sad about that? That's excellent! Much better than being randomly plowed down by a bus one day. That'd be tragic.

For the record, wackybrit, I said I feel sick...
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 9:47 AM on January 22, 2003


Removed from sentiment and personal feelings, it is certainly an interesting way to die.

There have been several others, news anchors, politicians, who have used the camera as a part of suicide.

In another light, Yukio Mishima also comes to mind.
posted by four panels at 10:04 AM on January 22, 2003


American parents spend less time with their kids than ever. This is due to the historic shift in American parenting, the move to 2 income families in the middle class. Both parents are working.
I didn't feel despair until I read this comment.
posted by holloway at 10:38 AM on January 22, 2003


The only part of this that smells funny to me is dovee.org. What the heck is it? Google cache. Whois. Seems weird that the site sits around with nothing on it until suddenly going live with the ripper story.

That said, I have not checked out the other links, as others in the thread have done.
posted by Mid at 11:05 AM on January 22, 2003


Hoax or no hoax (as of jan.22 snopes.com had nothing to say about it):

"No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main.... Any man’s death diminishes me because I am involved in Mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
John Donne, Meditation XVII
posted by 111 at 11:14 AM on January 22, 2003


and scorn for those who kill themselves is bad how?

Because it's nobody's business what I do with my body. It's my body. There is no moral issue involved. Suicide is not 'wrong' or contemptible any more than taking a fire ax to a computer that I own is wrong.

ishmaelgraves, you are so busy pointing out how the world is distorted by the filters other people view it through that you forgot you're looking through one too.

I'm sorry, I really don't understand this sentence. Who said anything about filters? I think PenDevil's hypotheses regarding what's going on in the heads of suicidal people are overly broad and for the most part inaccurate. Is that a 'filter' that I'm pointing out?

Of course my take on these events is colored by my past experiences. What's your point?
posted by IshmaelGraves at 11:15 AM on January 22, 2003


Probably the single most important piece of writing I've ever read is How not to Commit Suicide by Art Kleiner. I've sent this link or photocopied the article for people a number of times. Sorry it's too late for Ripper.
posted by theora55 at 11:21 AM on January 22, 2003


Just goes to show you have to responsible online too, it's no longer not a part of real life.
posted by riffola at 11:30 AM on January 22, 2003


"No man is an island entire of itself; every man is a piece of the Continent, a part of the main.... Any man’s death diminishes me because I am involved in Mankind; and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee."
John Donne, Meditation XVII

'Yeah... I never really liked that quotation. I am undiminished, and I hear no bell.
posted by thirteen at 11:45 AM on January 22, 2003


ishmaelgraves: pendevil has as much right to his scorn as you do to your apathy. in explaining to him why he is an asshole, you fail to take into account your own assholeness.
posted by quonsar at 11:55 AM on January 22, 2003


Judging from your comments, IshmaelGraves, I'm beginning to wish that you would be murdered and have it look like a suicide for the entertainment of others like yourself. The fact that you have abetted others in killing themselves is clearly sociopathic. I sincerely hope you aren't proud of yourself.
posted by Down10 at 11:57 AM on January 22, 2003


The following note is from dovee. He wanted this to be posted here:
"dovee.org is a personal website. I messed around with it and never actually did anything with it... with ripper's death it seemed like, well... I don't know why I made it.

This was not done for media exposure... I made this website on the 20st because I didn't know how to deal with it this loss of ripper, he wasn't a best friend, or someone I talked to everyday, but he was a friend that died for a tragic incomprehensible reason. I did not spam this website... but the next thing you know it was out of control.

There are many different views and opinions on this subject and many valid "what if" scenerios...yes, he may have died even if someone did call the police, he may had done this another time with no one around. But as the events of that night unfolded, someone should have done something.

My webpage was about ripper dying for no reason, it was about people not taking any moral responsibility for another persons life from a community of people that "love" each other, this was about a horrifying event that happened to a good person because of drugs.

As far as the public at large? The reactions are what mine are... they are horrified and torn with how to percieve this situation.

--------------------
you live going forward, you experience going back"
posted by chicobangs at 11:59 AM on January 22, 2003


I should add that I don't actually personally know dovee at all. He(?) sent me the above note from #mefi, and I believe he was who he said he was. He doesn't have a Mefi account.

I make no further claims about the above statement, except that I'm willing to believe the sentiments in it are genuine and come from the same person.
posted by chicobangs at 12:04 PM on January 22, 2003


Judging from your comments, IshmaelGraves, I'm beginning to wish that you would be murdered and have it look like a suicide for the entertainment of others like yourself. The fact that you have abetted others in killing themselves is clearly sociopathic. I sincerely hope you aren't proud of yourself.

First off, I think you're going way overboard on the vitriol there, it's just a discussion, people are going to disagree.

Second, where did IG say that he found it entertaining? I think you're confusing the fact that he thinks that people have the right to take their own lives with thinking that he finds it entertaining (or even "good").
posted by biscotti at 12:19 PM on January 22, 2003


Respice post te, hominem te memento
posted by WolfDaddy at 12:19 PM on January 22, 2003


From my wife who has access to the PDR:

• Klonapin - usual dose is 1.5 mg/day; no more than 4 mg/day.
• Inderal - a drug used to relieve high blood pressure, relieve chest pain due to angina, or to prevent a second heart attack. Usual dose, 60 mg/day but no more than 320.
• Methadone - pain reliever, liquid or oral dose must be mixed with water usual dose for detox is 40 mg/day; never more that 120/day.
• Restoril - a Diazepam, much like Klonapin, anti-anxiety med; no more than 30 mg/day.
• Mersh - low grade pot.
• KB - kind bud.

Mix all of this with 151 and it's no wonder he died. To his doctor's defense for prescribing all of these meds (if Ripper actually was a recovering addict receiving treatment), none of them had any interaction warnings. Pretty amazing.
posted by elvissinatra at 12:28 PM on January 22, 2003


Down10, you're accusing ishmaelgraves of being a sociopath because he used to read alt.suicide.holiday? Reading suicide notes, and noticing that the people who wrote them died doesn't make someone a sociopath. It's hardly "abetting" in any case.
posted by beth at 12:52 PM on January 22, 2003


Mid: The only part of this that smells funny to me is dovee.org.

Does it smell like onions?
posted by shadow45 at 12:54 PM on January 22, 2003


Having read this story earlier today, I can just say that loosing one's child or close one is bad in itself . Having people discuss the death of a loved one must be even worse.

My sympathy goes out to the people who knew him, and to all people who are going through this.
posted by sebas at 2:14 PM on January 22, 2003


I thought somebody actually called 911 in this case
Goddam:apparently not.

According to the log, someone did call 911, then backed out and made some excuse to the operator.

The loss of a child must be about the worst thing that can happen to a family. To have the child die in this way with his mother in the next room just makes it even more tragic. I could not even begin to imagine the pain of losing one of my kids and I went home and gave them a special hug last night, after reading this story. A close friend of mine lost a son at a similar age and the torture he went through was awful. People never recover from something like this and, unless you have children yourself, you cannot possibly understand how the loss of one could feel.

If there is anything to learn from this, it is to communicate with your kids and know what is going on in their lives. Their life may depend on it.
posted by dg at 2:49 PM on January 22, 2003


IshmaelGraves may have upset some people, but I do believe he is right by saying that our bodies belong to us - choosing death might not have been necessary for many suicides, and the ones who loved them will miss them, but who are we to say they shouldn't have done it? It's impossible to know another person's experience. If this person had a terminal illness, how would that affect our discussion?

That said, if anyone I knew committed suicide, I don't know if I could ever forgive them.
posted by agregoli at 3:18 PM on January 22, 2003


This reminds me of sk0t.
posted by jammer at 3:28 PM on January 22, 2003


Though my first instinct was to think that this is a hoax, it certainly doesn't appear to be the case. A lookup of the parents' names in the phone listings has them at an address that's across the street and about 4 doors down from the address listed in the whois for the deceased kid's domain. He did mention something while he was still coherent about calling 911 and telling them to look for his car near the address listed in the whois record. Of course, it could still be a hoax, but it'd be a fairly elaborate one if it were.

That said, it's unfortunate that he died, and I feel for his family.
posted by bedhead at 3:43 PM on January 22, 2003


That's some heavy shit...
posted by si at 6:51 AM on January 23, 2003


It's because IshmaelGraves said, I am a very strong believer in not stopping people from committing suicide.
and of the newsgroup, There were a couple of failed suicide attempts, and a couple of successful ones, while I was there. Lots of suicide notes got posted. Neither I nor any other member of the group would have dreamed of trying to intervene.
then refers to suicide as what they should and should not do with their own bodies on their own time.
I believe this is gravely (pardon the pun) sadistic logic, to put suicide on the level of getting a tattoo or smoking a joint.

Suicide affects more people than the individual. It creates loss and trauma for any of the friends, family and associates of the victim, and it also forces the next-of-kin to foot the burial/body disposal fees. It's costly and upsetting to a lot of people for what would be a rather selfish act, and I perceive that anyone with such apathy for someone about to take their own lives, without attempting to stop them, to not only be morally bankrupt, but to be a misanthrope. Darwinism is one thing, but allowing someone to kill themselves than then sharing their suicide notes like a book club is despicable.

My father's best friend commit suicide. It was very hard on everyone involved to make the funeral arrangements and to handle the man's finances and property holdings that it took over a year to finally settle the. I don't necessarily have respect for people who commit suicide, but I wouldn't purposely let people off themselves and force others clean up the mess. (unless the suicide victim had left behind no mess behind, which is rarely the case.)
posted by Down10 at 4:04 PM on January 23, 2003


bizarre: http://ripperlogs.tk/
posted by quonsar at 6:54 PM on January 24, 2003


A family member who chose to post shares why he thinks the logs should remain online. Believe at your own risk.
posted by yonderboy at 7:19 PM on January 24, 2003


For the record, here's the related MetaTalk thread.
posted by hyperizer at 11:04 AM on January 25, 2003


I would just like to add this here because people are still reading these threads and visiting #mefi for more info.

irc.turlyming.com / irc.metafilter.com and the channel #mefi is not where the incident took place. We do not know anymore than what is already mentioned in these threads. Please do not come in asking for further details, webcam images, etc. We were not involved, and we do not know as to where you could obtain further information.
posted by riffola at 2:01 AM on January 31, 2003


NY Daily News coverage here for those who still wondered, like me, if this were real or a hoax... So sad that it's real.
posted by togdon at 11:44 AM on February 4, 2003


Wired News recently started a series of articles on suicide and the internet.
posted by yonderboy at 4:17 PM on February 4, 2003


This topic is continued in another MetaFilter thread.
posted by yonderboy at 2:24 PM on February 7, 2003


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