Comments on: The Paper of Record?

The Paper of Record?

Artifice_Eternity — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:05:47 -0800

says the front (web) page of my "hometown" paper, the New York Times. Hey, guys, I have a scoop for you: I hear there might be a little something going on here in town, too... over at some place called the "United Nations." You might want to look into it. (Unless the authorities declare a fuchsia alert and shut the whole thing down...)

By: dogwelder

dogwelder — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:19:56 -0800

I believe there's a rally in Hollywood Saturday, too...

By: Artifice_Eternity

Artifice_Eternity — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:22:19 -0800

Anyone who lives in the NYC area knows that there's a HUGE rally planned near the UN tomorrow. There's been controversy about the city's denial of a permit for a march, and I hear that the regional transit services are adding trains to handle the influx of protestors. The Times sometimes seems determined to cover every important piece of news except the local stuff.

By: Postroad

Postroad — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:26:31 -0800

In my area, not that far from NY, the guy in charge wnated bus rides for some est 600 people....now he has over 2000 going to the City. Shut the UN down? They will shut themselves down very soon and have long been moving in that direction. Alas, if you are anti-war: Bush now has some 125 thou troops in ME, and, as the man said: with that many, you are a hammer and all things resemble nails. For him to call things off would be bad politically (right wing and conservatives) and his cowboy nature will impel him no matter what to do what he wants to do--the nature of the Bush DNA (monied brats: the world owes me what I want.).

By: dreeed

dreeed — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:29:24 -0800

"These unusual and undiplomatic displays caused German Foreign Minister Joschka Fischer, current council president, to ask for order inside the chamber. " For the first time, I'm thinking Lonesome George may not get his war. Too bad a Black Man is cast as supervillian.

By: salmacis

salmacis — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:29:32 -0800

the Stop the War Coalition, formed after Sept. 11, 2001, as a grouping of hundreds of organizations from pro-Palestinian Muslims to hardcore left-wingers with a leavening of pacifists, politicians, celebrities, environmentalists, intellectuals and labor unions. Nice spin. It could also be described as, "a bunch of ordinary people who think the war is unjust." I'm not going tomorrow. Hey, it's England against France in the Six Nations, and I couldn't miss that!

By: elwoodwiles

elwoodwiles — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:37:20 -0800

I'm planning on going into body bag futures. /troll

By: jill

jill — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:45:59 -0800

It's not just Europe, you know. It's about 600 cities around the globe, in every major country except China. Melbourne was one of the first countries to set off this weekend of global peace marches and they had 120,000 people by conservative estimates. That's a bigger turn out than for the biggest protest in Melbourne at the height of the Vietnam war. In Britain The Guardian writes that they expect half a million people in London and 200,000 in New York. Given that they only expected maybe 50,000 in Melbourne there might be a lot more. Because the network's dispersed (hey, like blogs) I can't find any single site that coordinates it all, but The World Messenger has a list of all the countries and cities where rallies are being arranged today and tomorrow with links to local sites. And no, it's not "pro-palestinian-leftists", it's regular people, it's the unions, it's the churches, it's even my mum and her friends for goodness sake. 70% of Spaniards are now polling against a war even with a UN resolution, did you know? (That's from that Guardian article) I'm definitely marching tomorrow. In Bergen, Norway at three pm. Please, think about joining in?

By: DragonBoy

DragonBoy — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:53:56 -0800

There's a protest in Houston at Tranquility Park at 1:30 tomorrow. If you are against the war then tomorrow is the day to join others being vocal about it. Find a protest near you! If you are looking for protest posters, here's a handy little flash app for printing them.

By: jill

jill — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:54:01 -0800

(btw, I'm sure there are lots of Pro-Palestinian leftists (gawd) marching, I just mean that there's a lot of non-habitual protesters too.)

By: ParisParamus

ParisParamus — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:09:45 -0800

There was an interesting piece in yesterday's WSJ in which the head of the rather left-leaning, fairly pro-palestinian Tikkun was refused a speaking slot at the Berkeley rally. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if much of the "anti-war" funding comes from the Middle East and Saddam, himself. Let the war begin! End the oppression, human rights violations and terror incubator which is Iraq. (I'd love to know how many of the anti-war people would have gone to a similar rally in the mid 1930's if American and British troops were about to invade Germany.)

By: terrymiles

terrymiles — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:11:42 -0800

Hi from the red bit in the middle of the target: London - where some mad bastard with a sam missile is planning to drop a 747 or similar on me and mine. We all live in Locherbie now. This is what I think. I think The debate about the war is so tangled up and muddle-headed. Lots of otherwise good socialists failing to recognise the difference between a normally healthy and habitual opposition to global US imperialism and the historically proven need to unite with it in opposition to the far, far darker forces of fascism - once German, Italian and Japanese now Iraqi, fundamentalist moslem, north Korean and probably Zimbabwean too. We are going to be busy but best stop petty Nazis when they are small. And just because you are not ready to take on the big bullies yet, it doesn't mean you have to tolerate the small ones. The arguments about oil, pipelines, Bush's dishonesty and idiocy, the fact that Churchill gassed the Kurds first and that Saddam was armed by the west to keep the Ayatullah in check are all true but now fundamentally irrelevant. Any well-read Marxist will know that capitalism - even imperialist global capitalism - is an advance over feudalism and reactionary fascist militarism. We should support liberation movements against the US and support the Palestinians against Zionists in Israel. We should not be protesting against the destruction of any fascist nationalism that exploits ignorance, fear and torture. Not every enemy of the USA is a friend of mine. So, we and the US liberate Iraqis from the fascist Ba'athist party, set up a government comfortable for Burger King, give them a vote and the chance to learn from their experience and the opportunity for the kind of democratic class struggle we will enjoy in Hyde Park and Central Park and everybody moves on. Hell! Once we stood shoulder to shoulder with Joe Stalin! Sorry to be a party pooper...

By: DragonBoy

DragonBoy — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:17:22 -0800

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if much of the "anti-war" funding comes from the Middle East and Saddam, himself. You mean there's funding? And here I was with markers and posterboard I bought myself.

By: Jimbob

Jimbob — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:22:30 -0800

You're weird, PP, if you actually believe the thousands of people who protest the war are funded by Saddam. You probably don't actually believe that, I know, you're just getting frustrated.

By: RobbieFal

RobbieFal — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:24:58 -0800

Remember that even celebrities held rallies saying that the US shouldn't go to war with Germany or Japan back in the day. But then an attack happened and War started

By: chrisroberts

chrisroberts — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:30:52 -0800

So, we and the US liberate Iraqis from the fascist Ba'athist party, set up a government comfortable for Burger King so, since we were so successful at removing the taliban and followed through with setting up a new government in afghanistan that is better than the taliban we should do it again? what make you think we will get it right this time or that we will even follow through with it? we sure didn't last time.

By: 2sheets

2sheets — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:05:06 -0800

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if much of the "pro-war" funding comes from the oil companies and Dick Cheney, himself.

By: MidasMulligan

MidasMulligan — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:41:15 -0800

It's not just Europe, you know. It's about 600 cities around the globe, in every major country except China. Yes - and people in Baghdad will doubtless be marching in solidarity with those people in 600 countries. Of course, for them, attendance will be mandatory. But I'm sure they'll all be really pleased that so many in the world are working so hard to make certain Saddam isn't removed from power. I'm certain the Iraqi people will be most gratified that the protesters will be claiming to speak on their behalf, will be claiming they want "peace", so the Iraqi people aren't subjected to a terrible US imperialist war. I'm sure they'll also be most interested in seeing Madonna's video - with her "feelings" about the war. Complete with the limbs of dead babies. You'll have to forgive them if they get slightly confused at first - and mistake Madonna's artistic impression of what the US might cause for a documentary of what they've actually been living under for years - but hell ... once they find out the protesters really really care about them, and that voices from all around the world are committed to uniting as one to assure the continuance of their stable, well-ordered political system - I'm sure they'll feel deeply thankful for the "moral" stand so many are taking on their behalf.

By: skellum

skellum — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:44:39 -0800

ParisParamus, looks lilke others have had to completely diss you on your most fatuous remarks above. As for the absurd pre-WW2 analogy, suck on this and then suck some more.

By: skellum

skellum — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:44:39 -0800

ParisParamus, looks lilke others have had to completely diss you on your most fatuous remarks above. As for the absurd pre-WW2 analogy, suck on this and then suck some more.

By: skellum

skellum — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:46:30 -0800

Got to stamp out that keyboard rage...

By: cell divide

cell divide — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:59:44 -0800

I will say right now that if Paris is right and this war is over quickly, with minimal casualties, and a free and liberated people of Iraq, with better propects for the entire middle east, I will be the first to tell him that I was wrong and he was right. However if it doesn't work out that way, I hope he will do the same. If it goes badly I don't want to hear BS, spin, or other garbage designed to cover the fact that you were wrong. It is a huge risk, but if it works I will be the first to say "right-ho".

By: mr_roboto

mr_roboto — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:53:24 -0800

Midas, are you saying that sarcastically? I can't quite make it out from your tone....

By: Plunge

Plunge — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:41:31 -0800

During the protests, I'll be spending time with some friends from Iraq. Their thoughts and feelings are expressed eloquently by Dr. B Khalaf.

By: muckster

muckster — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:13:52 -0800

According to Jonathan Schell, we already lost, no matter what happens next.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:09:55 -0800

From Schell's article: "All of us have heard this term 'preventive war' since the earliest days of Hitler. I recall that is about the first time I heard it. In this day and time...I don't believe there is such a thing; and, frankly, I wouldn't even listen to anyone seriously that came in and talked about such a thing." --President Dwight Eisenhower, 1953, upon being presented with plans to wage preventive war to disarm Stalin's Soviet Union

By: fold_and_mutilate

fold_and_mutilate — Sat, 15 Feb 2003 02:02:18 -0800

I'm sure they'll also be most interested in seeing Madonna's video - with her "feelings" about the war. No, I'm sure Iraqis would much rather hear the "feelings" of oh, say, "a major Wall Street player" about the war, and how it's really "moral" and all to suppress and eventually slaughter civilians in a regime we armed to the teeth, and how it's really the solidarity that American businessmen feel with potential oil dollars (or a President who is rewarding with tax cuts those who bought and paid for him) that drives this cynical and slimy and very late supposed concern for the Iraqi people. No, no doubt we'd all much rather hear platitudes from business and military interests in America about how certain dictators who rape their own people but play nice with American business are OK but others just gotta go. No doubt Iraquis would like to hear why their children's health was sacrificed over a decade of "sanctions" brought on and enforced by their brand newest friendliest bestest buddy America that now, today, really cares oh so much about the Iraqi people (cue up...."It's a Small World After All"). Of course, the chickenhawks won't be taking to the streets tomorrow -- or any day. One wonders why. No word yet on why their passion for fighting for what they supposedly believe in doesn't measure up to those who march against that courageous new American doctrine of "preemptive war" (last waged at a little harbor named Pearl...but not, alas, by Americans). I and everyone I know is marching tomorrow for the love of what America ONCE stood for. See [some of] you there.