Comments on: Elizabeth Smart found alive

Elizabeth Smart found alive

Psionic_Tim — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:27:28 -0800

Elizabeth Smart has been found - alive - in a restaraunt in Sandy, Utah, MSNBC reports.

By: Psionic_Tim

Psionic_Tim — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:29:27 -0800

According to the bulletin, her condition is unknown. She was found in the custody of the homeless handyman that police have been searching for.

By: grabbingsand

grabbingsand — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:36:02 -0800

[more direct link.]

By: The Jesse Helms

The Jesse Helms — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:38:36 -0800

Sharks! Where are the sharks?!

By: xmutex

xmutex — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:39:24 -0800

Very weird... wonder what drama will now unfold.

By: mischief

mischief — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:41:02 -0800

The news article is a bit scant of detail, so I will ask you, PT, who the hell is Elizabeth Smart?

By: ubi

ubi — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:41:39 -0800

Who...bla bla... need a tv to...blah? But, I'm glad the little girl is ok, whoever she is...

By: xmutex

xmutex — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:45:09 -0800

Elizabeth Smart was one of the girls in ABBA.

By: soyjoy

soyjoy — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:46:56 -0800

smartfilter.

By: Witty

Witty — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:48:47 -0800

What does this have to do with the impending war? I mean if we're going to post news, let's at least post "the news that matters". Sheesh.

By: jonson

jonson — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:57:33 -0800

This is lame on my part, I guess, but for a second, when I saw the headline, I thought it was the pregnant woman who had been killed and hidden by her adulterous husband. So many victimized/disappeared women in the media, so hard to keep track of.

By: t r a c y

t r a c y — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 14:59:02 -0800

elizabethsmart.com

By: mr_roboto

mr_roboto — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:07:36 -0800

"the news that matters" Dammit, Witty, I want "the news I can use"!

By: mecran01

mecran01 — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:08:50 -0800

She's been missing for six months. You could see her parents visibly aging on TV. I'm from the area, and was pulled over a few days ago under some lame pretext. Turns out I sorta look like the guy they caught. Some homeless "street prophet" named Emmanuel.

By: eyeballkid

eyeballkid — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:09:25 -0800

Any relation to Maxwell Smart?

By: Stan Chin

Stan Chin — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:12:06 -0800

Ooo Ooo Ooo! I'll ask the $50,000 question: Kidnapped and held in a state of absolute fear for the last 8 months... or Didn't want to be found? MeFi Mojo Go!

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:14:11 -0800

It's interesting to note that the Salt Lake Tribune published a story yesterday in which the Salt Lake police are quoted as saying: "...an FBI agent in Miami is following a credible sighting of Mitchell". Yesterday. In Miami.

By: orange swan

orange swan — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:15:15 -0800

It's wonderful that Elizabeth Smart has been found alive. But this isn't a MetaFilter post. It's just good news - there's nothing to discuss.

By: signal

signal — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:17:56 -0800

You forgot these: Britain, U.S. offer U.N. amendments U.S. plans increased war security U.S. warplanes en route to S. Korea Report of bin Laden capture denied Congress wrestles with 2004 budget Mortgage refinancing hits record War talk boosts arctic oil supporters Dow rises 28 points; Nasdaq up 8 C'mon people! We're letting some news slip by unposted!

By: SweetIceT

SweetIceT — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:27:39 -0800

All I can say is thank the lucky stars. I was so worried about how the Elizabeth's baby sister was going to be able to live with the knowledge of seeing her sister kidnapped. The reason I am saying this is because I have a friend whose teenage sister disappeared when she was just a little girl (her car was found but never a body and in that case the sister didn't witness the crime). This now woman, still speaks often of her missing sister. The disappearance still looms heavily in her life even after all these years. I thought of my friend when I heard about the Elizabeth Smart case. I felt so sad for the baby sister....knowing how deeply this incident was going to play out in her life. Now that this miraculous (I can not think of any better way to describe it) will prevent that poor girl from agonizing over it like my friend does...

By: jdaura

jdaura — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:35:02 -0800

Why did the handyman steal the baby? Was it going to be a ransom thing before all the media attention a few months ago? What were they doing with her? He was a transient drifter, so an extra mouth to feed must have put a burden on him. Maybe he kidnapped her as a pre-emptive protest against the war. I'm sure Saddam and Osama must have funded the transient's drifting.

By: poopy

poopy — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:38:01 -0800

mefi-worthy or not, i'm amazed and relieved. i've never heard of a missing children's case (ignoring kidnapping by relatives) where the child was found alive almost a year later. if we can quote memorable movie lines, mourn over lost celebrities then surely we can display some kind of sappy notion of happiness in a story like this.

By: whatever

whatever — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:57:15 -0800

Welcome to Metafilter where it's all war, all the time. God knows this country doesn't need any good news.

By: Tacodog

Tacodog — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 15:58:18 -0800

Indeed, most child abductions by someone other than a parent end in death. I'm relieved this ended differently. And jdaura, the girl was 14 when she was kidnapped.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:11:53 -0800

...Elizabeth had said she and Emanuel had hidden in the hills near the family home for several days after the reported kidnapping and spent months driving around the country with the other woman, traveling to San Diego and Florida... from upi. I think she ran away.

By: jdaura

jdaura — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:12:08 -0800

I was just kidding about the pre-emptive war protest. Thought I'd bring MeFi full circle on this one. I knew she wasn't a "baby", but seriously, what was the point of kidnapping while drifting? It must have been a ransom scheme gone wrong.

By: Stan Chin

Stan Chin — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:14:29 -0800

As more details come out, I'm about 70% sure she ran away right now.

By: matteo

matteo — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:16:49 -0800

so an extra mouth to feed must have put a burden on him. well, unfortunately one can not avoid to fear that maybe the drifter guy had other reasons to keep her with him even if she cost him money for food and clothing.

By: signal

signal — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:22:50 -0800

SpeculationFilter

By: matteo

matteo — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:29:12 -0800

SpeculationFilter of course it is, they've found her 5 minutes ago, what could we do? clearly this thread should be deleted, but I guess none of us have nothing better to do at the moment, so we can only speculate. i.e., she either ran away or she was on drugs the whole time (9 months), or maybe he kidnapped her, raped her, brainwashed her and she kind of fell in love with the scumbag, Patty Hearst-like I'm glad she's not dead, but I don't want to think about what that child had to endure these last nine months

By: signal

signal — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:37:26 -0800

what could we do? Not speculate?

By: matteo

matteo — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:41:45 -0800

O.K., let me explain it again: we have almost no data we can only speculate we'll do it until Matt delets the thread (or the again maybe he won't) if you don't like SpeculationFilter, leave the thread or go to MetaTalk

By: signal

signal — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:44:09 -0800

TouchyFilter

By: jdaura

jdaura — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:50:26 -0800

There's no harm in intelligent people's speculation regarding a bizarre scenario. We can probably come up with a better reason to kidnap the girl than the drifter did. TouchyFilter MeFi has seemed a little touchy as a whole lately. F%^cking pre-war tension, IMHO.

By: dhacker

dhacker — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 16:52:11 -0800

I thought the dingo stole the baby?

By: poopy

poopy — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:07:42 -0800

Washington state study on child abduction.

By: Witty

Witty — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:50:16 -0800

TouchyFilter Too funny.

By: adampsyche

adampsyche — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 17:52:13 -0800

Exactly. I wonder if that much will be reported. Now the nation can take a 15 second reprieve from The Pending Possible War.

By: dogmatic

dogmatic — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 18:46:55 -0800

Elizabeth who? I'm sorry, but thousands of children go missing each year. Why was this one so special that she so captivated the hearts and minds of lame Fox News viewers? Oh, that's right, because she didn't look like this.

By: Stan Chin

Stan Chin — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 18:54:09 -0800

Hmmmmmm............ via fark I'm back to a speculating that she was scared out of her mind/brainwashed.

By: nicwolff

nicwolff — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:07:10 -0800

She is so hot. Discuss.

By: jacquilynne

jacquilynne — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 20:13:31 -0800

Err, that might be a somewhat valid point, dogmatic, but there's a fair bit of difference between an "endangered runaway" and the rather sensational story of Elizabeth Smart being kidnapped out of her home at gunpoint in front of her 9 year old sister. "Unhappy teenager runs away from home" is not headline material. "Teen Kidnapped at Gunpoint from her Bedroom" is. I'm sure a case can be made that people "care" more about little white girls than they do about little black girls, but unless you can cite a similarly bizarre kidnapping of a black child that didn't get a lot of press, I wouldn't tot this one up in the "everyone's a racist" column.

By: dogmatic

dogmatic — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:18:55 -0800

Well, there's always the case of Erica Pratt, who interestingly enough didn't get any press until after she escaped her captor. It seems the news media isn't too interested in a poor black kid whose entire family has drug records, and who lived in a neighborhood where harassment, kidnapping, and beating of a child was common and almost expected. Don't get me wrong -- I'm not this fanatical -- but the point is that Smart, Runnion, and Van Dam wouldn't have made the news had they not been cute little white kids born of upper middle-class parents. You know, that live in neighborhoods where this kind of thing doesn't normally happen. I guess my point of contention is that even if there were a similar case of a minority child kidnapped at gunpoint, you probably wouldn't hear about it because this kind of thing happening in that kind of neighborhood isn't news -- it's a fact of life.

By: transona5

transona5 — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 21:26:59 -0800

It seems the news media isn't too interested in a poor black kid whose entire family has drug records Well, maybe the media were holding back because they felt that the drug records were relevant, but that reporting on them would leave them open to accusations of racism ("oh, you're saying that all those people do drugs, so they must have had this sort of thing coming.") I can tell you that Rilya Wilson got quite a bit of national coverage.

By: Slithy_Tove

Slithy_Tove — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 22:14:48 -0800

It seems the news media isn't too interested in a poor black kid whose entire family has drug records, and who lived in a neighborhood where harassment, kidnapping, and beating of a child was common and almost expected. "Dog bites man: no news. Man bites dog: News!" I'm pretty sure this, or something close, is a Pogo quote, but I can't find it on the net. That having been said: I don't think stranger kidnapping is that common in high-crime neighborhoods. It's pointless to accuse the media in any one particular case, but you can't get away from the fact that most of the kidnappings and disappearances that attract a huge amount of media attention involve young cute white females.

By: kaibutsu

kaibutsu — Wed, 12 Mar 2003 23:53:18 -0800

I've mixed feelings about stories like these... On the one hand, the media attention makes it more likely that the case will be solved at some point. On the other hand, the media coverage is intended to play on people's fears. Insofar as I know, child abductions are a fairly rare occurance, and the huge amount of media attention given to them create an irrational level of fear. This fear tends to drive people apart, destroying community. "Then they all retreated to the suburbs, where it was all white, and safe, and clean. And they went out and bought a quarter of a billion guns, and put locks on the doors, alarms on the houses, and gates around the neighborhoods. And finally they were all safe and secure and snug as a bug. And everyone lived happily ever after." -A Brief History of the United States (by matt stone and trey parker)

By: a3matrix

a3matrix — Thu, 13 Mar 2003 05:29:43 -0800

You know, that live in neighborhoods where this kind of thing doesn't normally happen. Ahhh, so therefore they are racially privileged to more media coverage and law enforcement. I will agree that given the number of children that go missing every year, it is a bit odd that so much attention can be put into searching for particular ones. To try and make it an issue of race, "America doesn't care about non white children" is really over simplifying things.

By: LoopSouth

LoopSouth — Thu, 13 Mar 2003 05:56:06 -0800

I think it all depends on how far a parent wants to take it... My sister got into some deep trouble once... My parents took it alot farther then I would suppose an "average" set of parents would take it. She went missing and didn't call for about a day, they went nuts... called the police... everything was fine, of coarse... but the point is, some parents really don't give a shit, some do. The Smart family obviously pulled as many strings as they possible could... other families may have not. It's not a race thing... it's how far you are willing to go to get your kid back. There are always strings to pull to get your missing child in the media. Some parents, I am sorry to say, just don't give a fucking shit what happens to thair kids.

By: mdn

mdn — Thu, 13 Mar 2003 06:23:21 -0800

It's not a race thing... it's how far you are willing to go to get your kid back. There are always strings to pull to get your missing child in the media. Some parents, I am sorry to say, just don't give a fucking shit what happens to thair kids. you can't possibly believe everyone has equal access to those strings. Anyone else see that story on -Dateline, I think- about the serial killer in vancouver that kept going for years and years (I think he killed like 30 people) because it was just prostitutes he was killing? And relatives were trying to get the police on it, but the police just figured prostitutes disappear sometimes...

By: LoopSouth

LoopSouth — Thu, 13 Mar 2003 06:38:32 -0800

how can you compare that story this... This was a unique event. Your point is not even relevant, because in this case they were trying to find this supposidly kidnapped girl... and in your case they were trying to find a killer. Sure, it pisses me off that it is usually only the white blah blah blah middle blah blah class that gets the attention... sure... we can all see this trend... but seriously, has anyone considered that the majority of kidnapped kids go unnoticed because the parents just eventually "let it go". Yeah that IS a cold hard fact to take in... but come on... Some parents would rather move on and try and live the rest of their lives instead of dragging it out as far as they can. There are alot of bad parents out there just not watching over their kids and genrerally not giving a shit. One less mouth to feed... it's a fucked up world. This case, the parents were lucky. They knew how to get on TV with sappy stories, pictures, and videos... and this time, the "kidnapper" didn't kill the kid. again... remember we were all looking for a little girl... not a killer... there is a difference.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 13 Mar 2003 06:55:56 -0800

Wow. A missing child is found, and what do we get here on mefi? Dumb jokes. Snarkiness. Armchair psychology and detective work. People trotting out inflammatory racial arguments. This is good news I thought. I swear sometimes you people could fuck up ice cream on a sunny day at the seashore.

By: ColdChef

ColdChef — Thu, 13 Mar 2003 07:13:53 -0800

Fucking ice cream dripping down my arm...global warming, I tells ya!

By: Dreama

Dreama — Thu, 13 Mar 2003 07:28:35 -0800

There are roughly 300 successful stranger abductions of minor children every year in the United States. Of that number, roughly 6 of those children will be recovered alive. Sounds like something fairly worthy of notice from where I sit. Meanwhile, as to speculation that Elizabeth was somehow complicit in what has happened to her over the last nine months, I have a really hard time believing that a 14 year old plotted with a wierd homeless guy she may have met once to come in to her house and take her out at gunpoint, terrorizing her little sister in the process. Maybe I'm just naive.

By: Plunge

Plunge — Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:13:27 -0800

A missing child is found, and what do we get here on mefi? Dumb jokes. Snarkiness. Armchair psychology and detective work. People trotting out inflammatory racial arguments. This is good news I thought. I swear sometimes you people could fuck up ice cream on a sunny day at the seashore. How true, how true.

By: CunningLinguist

CunningLinguist — Thu, 13 Mar 2003 09:46:26 -0800

Re: Man Bites Dog That was a 19th century New York Sun editor John B. Bogart, who said, "When a dog bites a man, that is not news, because it happens so often. But if a man bites a dog, that is news." Why some cases get attention isn't race as much as class, mixed with intangibles. Smart was gorgeous and had that harp video, yes. But also, it's really amazingly rare to have a kid of any race or class kidnapped from her bedroom by a stranger in front of a witness.

By: Irontom

Irontom — Thu, 13 Mar 2003 10:22:24 -0800

LoupSouth - "majority of kidnapped kids go unnoticed because the parents just eventually 'let it go'... There are alot of bad parents out there just not watching over their kids and genrerally not giving a shit. One less mouth to feed... " What exactly are you trying to say? Unless you can quote some sources for your "majority" of parents, it sounds to me like you are talking right out of your ass, based on your own issues with people who have kids. While it is true that some parents don't give a shit, most parents aren't as well-educated, well-off and well-connected as the Smart family. Dreama - Can you cite a source? I did some reseach in this area last year, and the Justice Dept. numbers I dug up (3200+ successful attempts, approx 100 will be murdered, 75% of those are dead in the first 3 hours) don't match your figures. Also, weirder things have happend than 14 year old girls being complicit in running away. I'm not saying that's what happened, but it seems to me there are some questions about this whole thing that need to be answered.

By: jennyb

jennyb — Thu, 13 Mar 2003 10:26:59 -0800

mdn: I didn't see the story your talking about on Dateline, but who you're describing sounds like Art Shawcross. He was based in Watertown, NY, though. But his first child victim, Jack Blake, was the son of one of the small town's more notorious couples who were known for being poor, drunk, and often on the wrong side of the law. He was eventually arrested for killing Karen Ann Hill, who came from a wealthier and more well respected family and while Shawcross has confessed that he killed Jack Blake, and showed police where he dumped the body, he was never charged with that crime, which still technically remains unsolved. He was released from prison after... 13 years maybe? and relocated to Binghampton, NY where he spent 3 or 4 years killing prostitutes before they caught him again. A little OT, but it's a good example of how connections and money (as opposed to just race-- Hill and Blake were both white) can make a difference when it comes to a missing/murdered child. Also a good argument for listening to prison psychologists, none of whom believed Shawcross was safe to release from jail.

By: mdn

mdn — Thu, 13 Mar 2003 19:08:10 -0800

again... remember we were all looking for a little girl... not a killer... there is a difference. you're finding the wrong analogue - I'm comparing the kidnapper to the murderer, or the pretty white suburban girl to the poor prostitutes - I was just supporting dogmatic's point that the characteristics of the victim make a big difference in the intensity of media coverage and even police investigation. Young attractive upper class people are going to get a lot more attention, and the criminals who kidnap or murder them will be hunted more aggressively. Here's a piece on the vancouver killings - they eventually recovered 15 bodies on the property of a local pig farmer... I think the number of missing women / suspected victims was higher, though.

By: kv

kv — Thu, 13 Mar 2003 19:31:05 -0800

I hope the girl is doing okay.

By: Mack Twain

Mack Twain — Thu, 13 Mar 2003 19:52:43 -0800

Am I the only person here who saw them? Late last summer/early fall, on Interstate 5 about 125 miles north of the California State line.

By: aaronshaf

aaronshaf — Fri, 14 Mar 2003 09:37:42 -0800

Fanny Alger was only 14.

By: mdn

mdn — Sun, 16 Mar 2003 07:38:38 -0800

a few weird detailsin this story (nyt) about her kidnapping. Seems she must have been a pretty impressionable kid - she was in the same town for most of her disappearance, and took to wearing a veil and calling herself by another name, etc. Not saying she had no reason to be afraid, but there must have been moments when she could've taken off... as for the ruining ice cream etc, what's the point of a story about how nice ice cream is? This case has some interesting elements - of course it's great a kidnapped girl got home, but I didn't know her so I'm looking at the bigger picture, how this fits into a larger context. Other kidnapped kids don't get home. Other kidnapped kids don't get much media attention - etc. Take the "I'm happy for the family" to be implied & not worth discussion.