Comments on: bread hours

bread hours

bureaustyle — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:14:54 -0800

http://www.Breadhours.org A group of over 300 residents and merchants in California's Bay Area has established a local currency called BREAD (a rough acronym for Bay Area Regional Exchange and Development), based on hours of work valued at $12 an hour. Through the BREAD network, which now has over $20,000 worth of currency in circulation, members can pay for dinner, carpentry, childcare, tutoring, clerical assistance or organic produce. Tired of traditional activism, founder Miyoko Sakashita wanted to create a positive local economy and "stop our resources from supporting global corporations that are not accountable to people and the environment." Check it out at Breadhours.org

By: pjdoland

pjdoland — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:25:39 -0800

Sounds like a underground economy income tax dodge scam to me. God bless them.

By: Space Coyote

Space Coyote — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:26:20 -0800

This is a really nice idea, but what does the IRS have to say on the subject of making an end-run around money?

By: bureaustyle

bureaustyle — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:27:40 -0800

according to bread's website it's legal Is BREAD lawful? YES! Local currencies are constitutionally legal and have a long history. It is taxable as barter income based on its ãfair market valueä in U.S. currency. And it is subject to federal anti-counterfeiting laws. Is BREAD income taxable? Often, barter exchanges are considered taxable income by the IRS. Use schedule C or Schedule C-EZ of Form 1040 to report Barter Income. You can use a generic invoice to keep track of your trades. Examples of bartering and information on how to report the income are described in IRS Publication 525 Table and Nontaxable Income. Participants are responsible for their own tax liabilities and reporting. BREAD has no obligation or ability to report exchanges or to collect any taxes.

By: mcsweetie

mcsweetie — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:29:46 -0800

hmm. best idea ever perhaps? other than this idea I got today for garbage bags with a built int deodorizing liner.

By: mdn

mdn — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:38:47 -0800

A friend of mine was just on the road and mentioned that in Ithica, there's a similar local currency thing going on ("Ithica bucks")... Interesting. I wonder how common this is.

By: Stynxno

Stynxno — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:47:04 -0800

mdn - They're called Ithaca Hours. This currency has been around since 1991. Check out their website here.

By: jonson

jonson — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:48:36 -0800

This is really fantastic; I'm generally cynical, but if this was gonna work anywhere, you'd imagine the Bay Area would be the place.

By: Space Coyote

Space Coyote — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:48:45 -0800

Funniest thing ever would be if the local McDonald's started taking the BREAD money. In my little Canadian town there are cabbies who take Canadian Tire Money.

By: grum@work

grum@work — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:51:24 -0800

according to bread's website it's legal And according to lots of people (*coughscammerscough*) out there, Americans don't have to pay income tax because it's illegal for the government to tax them like that. Doesn't mean they don't get taxed, charged, and jailed for it.

By: Space Coyote

Space Coyote — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:57:47 -0800

They aren't trying to scam anybody, they're just helping out the local businesses, and they do mention that you will have to pay some income tax based on well-established precedants. I still think this is a great idea, but I'm saddened that it has become necessary as a way to save the last shred of local business in many centres.

By: gluechunk

gluechunk — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 13:58:03 -0800

dmoz's page for Local Currency. some other community currency systems.

By: fishfucker

fishfucker — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 14:06:33 -0800

um; when I was living in the East Bay (where BREAD is based out of, from what i understand) I looked into this (because I was a student, and thought that i could find a way to turn my spare time into food). mostly, however, real goods are not offered. there's a lot of people, for example, willing to trade massage, or yoga lessons, or like personal training, or maybe walk your dog, but the lack of actual goods made it pretty unattractive to me. I mean, hey, I'm sure massages are great and all, but I like my money to be able to buy things I actually need (like, say, toilet paper). whining aside, I think this is a great freaking idea. i think folks in the US should become more independent. i like what they're doing, I just wish a way could be found to make it more practical. and the program wasn't conceived as a tax dodge, but as a means for building community and encouraging bartering. (there's a lot of other cool programs that are unique -- well, i think, there's probably other places that have them too -- like the tool library, for example, which kicks ass: and which I unfortunately wasn't able to use because I lived two blocks into oakland. bastards.)

By: hairyeyeball

hairyeyeball — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 14:07:26 -0800

When I lived in Berkeley, "Moe's money" — credit slips from the great used bookstore on Telegraph — had something of the same status of underground currency, the way cigarettes function in prisons. Thanks to the chunk for those links. I've been interested in e-Dinar and the like for a while now, and one of my clients pays me in evos. So far, so good.

By: fishfucker

fishfucker — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 14:07:42 -0800

uh, that should read "unique to berkeley" but as my grammar is fairly atrocious in that message i guess i'm not going to sweat it.

By: fishfucker

fishfucker — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 14:08:50 -0800

(oh, and moe's is the best bookstore ever. i will never buy paperbacks for more than half the cover price ever again)

By: Cedric

Cedric — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 14:29:06 -0800

Fishfucker (by the time I read that site and got back here) expressed exactly my thoughts. Rent, groceries, a car...etc... I wish/hope the idea could expand. But banks would have to get involved. You know what I mean, for this to really take off. I liked this part, the disclaimer on a few of the pages: "Disclaimer: BREAD is in no way affiliated or associated with, or sponsored by, the Bread & Roses Benefit Agency. Your support of the BREAD and Roses Party does not in any way benefit Bread & Roses, the organization, founded by Mimi Farina, which brings live entertainment to audiences isolated in Bay Area institutions." For some reason that gave me gigglepants.

By: some chick

some chick — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 15:03:02 -0800

We've got them in Calgary as well.. I've accidentally wandered into stores that accept them, but have never had the opportunity to earn any.

By: dhartung

dhartung — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 16:14:17 -0800

grum, the BREAD site is correct: barter income is legal as long as properly reported; Schedule C-EZ should be sufficient for most people, unless they have cash income for their service business as well. Many barter exchanges formalize reporting with end-of-year 1099-B forms. I don't doubt that some may see this as a potential tax dodge, but there's plenty of people out there who operate cash-only businesses using Uncle Sam's legal tender, to avoid record-keeping and permit them to underreport income. It's not a problem (or benefit) inherent to barter exchange systems. Barter always will have limitations because it isn't a full-fledged currency, such as the concentration toward personal services (goods merchants have suppliers who require money, you see), and banking services are unavailable as a way to build capital (though some systems attempt to simulate this in various ways). The systems need to be properly managed to avoid problems of inflation (or deflation). With all labor pegged at the same price [in many systems], there are going to be restrictions on what services people are willing to supply (I'd be willing to do some tech support for an "hour", but not fix a PC or install a network.) But as long as people use this knowing it's a firmly and permanently limited system, I don't see a problem.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 16:38:23 -0800

Barter currency is all over the place. See http://www.progress.org/archive/currency.htm and its root for examples.

By: MzB

MzB — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 17:03:53 -0800

kliuless had a very good FPP last year about open money systems. His blog has also some very interesting links (bottom of the page, feb 1 2002) - long read, but it makes you think about what might be next.

By: alumshubby

alumshubby — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 17:19:02 -0800

What about using frequent-flyer miles as barter? Aren't they transferable?

By: four panels

four panels — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 17:24:41 -0800

Isn't $12 an hour below the poverty line?

By: kayjay

kayjay — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 18:29:34 -0800

We've had them in Madison, WI for awhile, too.

By: eilatan

eilatan — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 18:30:20 -0800

Um, no. That's just over $20K a year. Here's a page showing what the poverty guidelines are (scroll to the bottom to see a chart showing household size and income). Those are the federal guidelines used to determine eligibility for any number of programs, including WIC, CHIP, Head Start, and the school lunch program.

By: ph00dz

ph00dz — Sat, 15 Mar 2003 19:43:45 -0800

Frequent-flier miles are actually a really good example of an emerging currency, almshubby. There's also a good bit of info out there about the economics of everquest, another emerging economy of sorts. In some ways, though, I don't really understand what it is people like bread and the ithica hours folks are trying to do. I suppose there's some value in trapping currency locally, but currency only really has value when its put into use. One might think that anything which limits its use (and thus limits its desirability) would have a fairly strong impact on its effectiveness. In short, you have to know that someone out there will take your money (or whatever) if you want to use it. Another bit of weirdness -- bread is supposed to represent barter, but no actually physical objects are passing from one person to another -- like a person trading tomatoes for milk or whatever. Instead they're just trading a representation... which gets you back to the way that our current monetary system works. One supposes that there might be some gain in taking control of the money system out of the control of the central federal bank... Here's another question for the economists out there -- bread claims that "there's no interest on bread so there's no reason to hoard it." However, would bread be subject to regular inflation/deflation? For instance, people who sign up for bread are given a certain number of hours. Let's say that they change that number of hours -- wouldn't that end up affecting the bread economy in serious way? On their news page, they have an upcoming event.... with prices in dollars.

By: Modgoddess

Modgoddess — Sun, 16 Mar 2003 07:19:24 -0800

In Ithaca (home of the Ithaca Hours) you can also get goods as well as services with alternate currency...you can buy things at the local supermarket-sized health food co-op, pay library fines. The vendors at the Farmer's Market and at 2 dozen plus restaurants and delis take Hours and you can buy used books, art supplies, etc. Some local doctors take Hours as well.

By: mbt

mbt — Sun, 16 Mar 2003 22:29:49 -0800

I actually think this is a very cynical kind of "activism." They're upset that global corporations aren't accountable to people and the environment, so they invent a new currency to ensure that "resources stay within the community." It seems fairly childish. Wouldn't a more constructive place to start be within local government?

By: theplayethic

theplayethic — Mon, 17 Mar 2003 03:09:17 -0800

This goes around and comes around on MeFi (my own thread on barter/time dollars/etc). but it's still a good notion worth accumulating knowledge on. (How many other people use MeFi as a kind of ideas blog this way?) You might also like to check out Via3.net, a soft launch of a new service for ethical organisations that offers an off-the-peg electronic barter system, plus lots of info on alternative economics.