Peace, the lowkey way
March 21, 2003 7:22 PM Subscribe
Light of reason is an effort to peacefully demonstrate your dissent with the current war on Iraq. I fully expect the more conservative elements to say that peace is anti-patriotic but let's face, we can support the troops and still hate the war.
Nevertheless, this is a much better way to display your anti-war stance than crowding intersections, or throwing bricks at cops.
posted by pemulis at 7:41 PM on March 21, 2003
posted by pemulis at 7:41 PM on March 21, 2003
The only way to protest the war and "support the troops" is to protest silently, alone or in small groups; not in public. On the other hand, if you're against the war, why do you feel obliged to "support the troops"? Said troops, like most Americans, think you are either college-age or lower and/or coward a-holes.
So go protest in Times Square: it's a free country, and you're free to be a coward a-hole if you wish--don't try to hide the fact! Rejoice in your freedom!
posted by ParisParamus at 7:43 PM on March 21, 2003
So go protest in Times Square: it's a free country, and you're free to be a coward a-hole if you wish--don't try to hide the fact! Rejoice in your freedom!
posted by ParisParamus at 7:43 PM on March 21, 2003
I'm sort of closer to Times Square than Bagdad.
posted by ParisParamus at 7:57 PM on March 21, 2003
posted by ParisParamus at 7:57 PM on March 21, 2003
PP:
1) Protesting in public == not supporting the troops? Yeah right.
2) The military really thinks no one over college age opposes the war? They had best unfunk themselves and start shitting me Tiffany cufflinks!
posted by crunchburger at 8:00 PM on March 21, 2003
1) Protesting in public == not supporting the troops? Yeah right.
2) The military really thinks no one over college age opposes the war? They had best unfunk themselves and start shitting me Tiffany cufflinks!
posted by crunchburger at 8:00 PM on March 21, 2003
You know, I just don't care anymore. I've heard thing after thing about why we should support the war not support the war and everything in between. I just don't care. Let me know when it's all over. There's too much information and propaganda for me to be able to decide what right and who's lying. I think everyone is lying.
posted by stoneegg21 at 8:12 PM on March 21, 2003
posted by stoneegg21 at 8:12 PM on March 21, 2003
I'm sort of closer to Times Square than Bagdad.
No, you're closer to the gutter. And not looking at the stars.
posted by riviera at 8:35 PM on March 21, 2003
No, you're closer to the gutter. And not looking at the stars.
posted by riviera at 8:35 PM on March 21, 2003
Riviera: you know, with Saddam gone, that whole neighborhood may quiet down. And who knows: with Saddam's financing gone, and Syria feeling scared that they're next, some noble Palestinian Arab may actually assasinate Arafat and that odious Hamas cleric. And before you know it, there may actually be a Palestinian state!
posted by ParisParamus at 8:44 PM on March 21, 2003
posted by ParisParamus at 8:44 PM on March 21, 2003
The military really thinks no one over college age opposes the war?
This almost made me laugh...Everyone i know over in the war knows about the oposition to the war and finds all the anti-war sentiment disheartening. I'm not saying thats a reasons to be pro-war, and it is quite possible i know the minority, but that is just what i've noticed.
posted by jmd82 at 8:52 PM on March 21, 2003
This almost made me laugh...Everyone i know over in the war knows about the oposition to the war and finds all the anti-war sentiment disheartening. I'm not saying thats a reasons to be pro-war, and it is quite possible i know the minority, but that is just what i've noticed.
posted by jmd82 at 8:52 PM on March 21, 2003
you know, with Saddam gone, that whole neighborhood may quiet down.And who knows: with Saddam's financing gone, and Syria feeling scared that they're next, some noble Palestinian Arab may actually assasinate Arafat and that odious Hamas cleric. And before you know it, there may actually be a Palestinian state!
And, best of all, the Texan oil industry may get a break.
posted by liam at 8:56 PM on March 21, 2003
And, best of all, the Texan oil industry may get a break.
posted by liam at 8:56 PM on March 21, 2003
I support the men and women who are doing their jobs by fighting this war. I hope that as many of them as possible make it home alive. I hope that our government doesn't abandon them to suffer the symptoms of "non-existent" diseases when they return. I hope their families aren't forced to continue to scrape by on poverty-level wages while they risk their lives. Most of the men in my family have served in the military, many in combat, so this isn't abstract for me.
I do not support the leaders that sent them there. I believe that they are wrong and morally corrupt and they make me ashamed. This is against my will and the will of so many others. In support of the democratic process and of the many others who believe that this war is wrong, I protest these decisions.
posted by blissbat at 8:57 PM on March 21, 2003
I do not support the leaders that sent them there. I believe that they are wrong and morally corrupt and they make me ashamed. This is against my will and the will of so many others. In support of the democratic process and of the many others who believe that this war is wrong, I protest these decisions.
posted by blissbat at 8:57 PM on March 21, 2003
Ahem - back to the candle thing... there's got to be something more worthwile than this. How about writing your congressman? How about joining a volunteer group and gearing up for Presidential Campaign 2004? Lighting your curtains on fire isn't going to help anyone, not even the troops.
BTW - Opposing an ill-conceived war can be a profound statement of support for the men and women of the armed forces. If we value their lives and service, and believe that they are being wasted on a worthless cause, it's our duty to encourage the leadership to reverse course and bring them home.
posted by scarabic at 9:13 PM on March 21, 2003
BTW - Opposing an ill-conceived war can be a profound statement of support for the men and women of the armed forces. If we value their lives and service, and believe that they are being wasted on a worthless cause, it's our duty to encourage the leadership to reverse course and bring them home.
posted by scarabic at 9:13 PM on March 21, 2003
ParisParamus: not only will pigs be flying, but you will be dining on bacon sarnies. After all, with your beloved Ariel Sharon demanding that Iran Comes Next, there ain't gonna be much 'calm' in the region. Not with bigots like yersel' to fuel the flames from a safe distance.
posted by riviera at 9:46 PM on March 21, 2003
posted by riviera at 9:46 PM on March 21, 2003
This "support our troops" business is jingoistic stuff, slippery and manipulative and devoid of substantive meaning. It's a stick that the pro-war crowd use to hit the protestors with.
I will support our troops: I will happily send a soldier the price of a meal if he needs one, or a new pair of boots, or check to see if he left the garden hose running before he left.
I will not, however, quietly pretend to believe that the war they're fighting isn't a wrongheaded abuse of power by those who sent them in, and I don't believe for one single moment that to do so would "support" them. The soldiers themselves are presumably all honorable. But their mission was chosen for them by men who are not. In what way does it "support our troops" to pretend to believe a lie?
posted by George_Spiggott at 10:20 PM on March 21, 2003
I will support our troops: I will happily send a soldier the price of a meal if he needs one, or a new pair of boots, or check to see if he left the garden hose running before he left.
I will not, however, quietly pretend to believe that the war they're fighting isn't a wrongheaded abuse of power by those who sent them in, and I don't believe for one single moment that to do so would "support" them. The soldiers themselves are presumably all honorable. But their mission was chosen for them by men who are not. In what way does it "support our troops" to pretend to believe a lie?
posted by George_Spiggott at 10:20 PM on March 21, 2003
ParisParamus - supporting the troops? War mongers such are yourself are indirectly responsible for their deaths. Keep up the good work!
posted by iamck at 1:03 AM on March 22, 2003
posted by iamck at 1:03 AM on March 22, 2003
Polls show solid support for the troops and the war. Good news for the brave American fighting men!
posted by hama7 at 2:06 AM on March 22, 2003
posted by hama7 at 2:06 AM on March 22, 2003
The Iraqi troops have thier own unique way of showing their dissent with the Hussein regime: Conscripts shoot their own officers rather than fight. Sorry peaceniks.
posted by hama7 at 2:18 AM on March 22, 2003
posted by hama7 at 2:18 AM on March 22, 2003
War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse.--John Stuart Mill
posted by hama7 at 5:07 AM on March 22, 2003
posted by hama7 at 5:07 AM on March 22, 2003
You're so weird Hamil Sabaa.
Don't ask me! I was just fucking around and I found this. I was just trying to come up with a funny name for Hama7. One part being "Hamil" and the other being the arabic word for "7".
I think that's what you call synchronicity.
Can anybody translate the reason for that site? What's with all the shadowy figures with fedoras and briefcases?
posted by crasspastor at 5:11 AM on March 22, 2003
Don't ask me! I was just fucking around and I found this. I was just trying to come up with a funny name for Hama7. One part being "Hamil" and the other being the arabic word for "7".
I think that's what you call synchronicity.
Can anybody translate the reason for that site? What's with all the shadowy figures with fedoras and briefcases?
posted by crasspastor at 5:11 AM on March 22, 2003
Type it into your browser to see what I mean, it won't let you in by hyper-linking.
http://www.hamil.org.il/
posted by crasspastor at 5:21 AM on March 22, 2003
http://www.hamil.org.il/
posted by crasspastor at 5:21 AM on March 22, 2003
PP: The only way to protest the war and "support the troops" is to protest silently, alone or in small groups; not in public.
Interesting concept here. Protest all you want just so long as it's silent and solitary... my, that would certainly keep the streets clear and avoid the giving impression that not all Americans share your enthusiasm for this war.
Forgive my ignorance but isn't calling for their prompt and safe return home the best way to 'support our troops' ?
One thing does occur to me, unless we have instituted a draft that I'm not aware of we have an all volunteer force. I'm going to go out on limb here and say that the people who enlisted in the military did it with the full knowledge that they could be called on to actually fight... with this is mind, it seems likely that most troops may be less than enthusiastic about 'support' from the anti-war population.
posted by cedar at 5:51 AM on March 22, 2003
Interesting concept here. Protest all you want just so long as it's silent and solitary... my, that would certainly keep the streets clear and avoid the giving impression that not all Americans share your enthusiasm for this war.
Forgive my ignorance but isn't calling for their prompt and safe return home the best way to 'support our troops' ?
One thing does occur to me, unless we have instituted a draft that I'm not aware of we have an all volunteer force. I'm going to go out on limb here and say that the people who enlisted in the military did it with the full knowledge that they could be called on to actually fight... with this is mind, it seems likely that most troops may be less than enthusiastic about 'support' from the anti-war population.
posted by cedar at 5:51 AM on March 22, 2003
Said troops, like most Americans, think you are either college-age or lower and/or coward a-holes.
I'm sure that PeePee knows this so well from his Brooklyn foxhole. What a fucking hypocrite. And a coward.
posted by riviera at 6:04 AM on March 22, 2003
I'm sure that PeePee knows this so well from his Brooklyn foxhole. What a fucking hypocrite. And a coward.
posted by riviera at 6:04 AM on March 22, 2003
Here's another alternative protest concept:
Given that war invokes a specific aspect of human nature, the tribalistic, "Us vs. Them" response (see bottom of post, courtesy of Y2karl), why fight this head on? To do so is tantamount to jumping in front of a moving train.
Think of Aikido. And think strategically.
A) The US invasion of Iraq is likely to provoke increased terrorism. The US peace movement would do well to engage in a very public dialogue with average Muslim citizens throughout the Mideast, to let the Islamic World know that 1) Some Americans were strongly oppposed to the war - especially to it's role as the opening gambit of a larger American imperial project. 2) Americans are just human beings, and Muslims of the Mideast are just human beings....Communication between the two groups - Americans and Mideast Muslims - would make it that much harder for each group to demonize the other, or to sanction violence.
B) The US Peace movement would do well, at this juncture, to take overt, very public actions to support US troops while simultaneously seeking to publicize, in every possible venue, the larger project (call it a US imperial project, or not) envisioned by the Bush Adminstration. Peace Activists must become journalists and, more importantly, creative publicists, for it will be very hard to cut through the deafening blare of US mass media jingoism. The words and writings of Bush Adminstration members on this, and their ties to financial concerns which will benefit from ceaseless war, are the very best ammunition for the Peace Movement.
c) The US Peace movement might want to consider simply accepting the US takeover of Iraq as an accomplished fact and save its energy for protest over: Humanitarian relief efforts for the Iraqi people, the nature of the regime which will be installed in the place of Saddam Hussein's toppled regime, and the coming US actions - against Iran, North Korea, Syria, and elsewhere.
"Sensory Reality - Peacetime
1. Good and Evil have many shades of grey. Many groups with different ideas and opinions are legitimate.
2. Now is pretty much like other times.
3. The great forces of nature, such as God
or human evolution, are not often evoked in our disputes.
4. When the present period is over, things will go on much as they have in the past.
5. There are many problems to be solved and their relative importance varies from day to day. Life is complex.
6. All people act from pretty much the same motives.
7. Problems start on different levels - economic, political, or
personal - and must be dealt with on these levels.
8. We are concerned with what causes the problems we are trying to solve.
9. We can talk to those we disagree with.
10. All people are fundamentally the same.
Mythic Reality - Wartime
1. Good and Evil are reduced to Us and Them. There are no innocent bystanders; there are only those for or those against us. Crucial issues are divided into black and white, and opinions about them are either right or wrong.
2. Now is different from all other times. Everything
hangs in the balance; whoever wins now wins forever. It is the time of the final battle between good and evil.
3. 'God is on Our Side,' 'History will absolve us,' and other such slogans indicate our belief that great cosmic forces are with us.
4. Everything will be vastly different after the war. Things will be better if we win and terribly worse if we lose. Winning or losing will change the meaning of the past and the shape of the future.
5. There is only one major problem to be solved. All others are secondary. Life has one major focus.
6. They act from a wish for power. We act from self-defence, benevolence, and reasons of common decency andmorality. 7. The real problem started with an act of will by the enemy and can only be solved by breaking his will or by making him helpless to act on it.
8. We are not concerned with causes, only with outcomes. 9.Since the enemy is evil, he naturally lies. Communication is not possible. Only force can settle the issue. We tell the truth (news, education). They lie (propaganda).
10. The same actions are 'good' when we do them and 'evil' when the enemy does them. There is doubt that 'we' and 'they' really belong to the same species"
posted by troutfishing at 7:54 AM on March 22, 2003
Given that war invokes a specific aspect of human nature, the tribalistic, "Us vs. Them" response (see bottom of post, courtesy of Y2karl), why fight this head on? To do so is tantamount to jumping in front of a moving train.
Think of Aikido. And think strategically.
A) The US invasion of Iraq is likely to provoke increased terrorism. The US peace movement would do well to engage in a very public dialogue with average Muslim citizens throughout the Mideast, to let the Islamic World know that 1) Some Americans were strongly oppposed to the war - especially to it's role as the opening gambit of a larger American imperial project. 2) Americans are just human beings, and Muslims of the Mideast are just human beings....Communication between the two groups - Americans and Mideast Muslims - would make it that much harder for each group to demonize the other, or to sanction violence.
B) The US Peace movement would do well, at this juncture, to take overt, very public actions to support US troops while simultaneously seeking to publicize, in every possible venue, the larger project (call it a US imperial project, or not) envisioned by the Bush Adminstration. Peace Activists must become journalists and, more importantly, creative publicists, for it will be very hard to cut through the deafening blare of US mass media jingoism. The words and writings of Bush Adminstration members on this, and their ties to financial concerns which will benefit from ceaseless war, are the very best ammunition for the Peace Movement.
c) The US Peace movement might want to consider simply accepting the US takeover of Iraq as an accomplished fact and save its energy for protest over: Humanitarian relief efforts for the Iraqi people, the nature of the regime which will be installed in the place of Saddam Hussein's toppled regime, and the coming US actions - against Iran, North Korea, Syria, and elsewhere.
"Sensory Reality - Peacetime
1. Good and Evil have many shades of grey. Many groups with different ideas and opinions are legitimate.
2. Now is pretty much like other times.
3. The great forces of nature, such as God
or human evolution, are not often evoked in our disputes.
4. When the present period is over, things will go on much as they have in the past.
5. There are many problems to be solved and their relative importance varies from day to day. Life is complex.
6. All people act from pretty much the same motives.
7. Problems start on different levels - economic, political, or
personal - and must be dealt with on these levels.
8. We are concerned with what causes the problems we are trying to solve.
9. We can talk to those we disagree with.
10. All people are fundamentally the same.
Mythic Reality - Wartime
1. Good and Evil are reduced to Us and Them. There are no innocent bystanders; there are only those for or those against us. Crucial issues are divided into black and white, and opinions about them are either right or wrong.
2. Now is different from all other times. Everything
hangs in the balance; whoever wins now wins forever. It is the time of the final battle between good and evil.
3. 'God is on Our Side,' 'History will absolve us,' and other such slogans indicate our belief that great cosmic forces are with us.
4. Everything will be vastly different after the war. Things will be better if we win and terribly worse if we lose. Winning or losing will change the meaning of the past and the shape of the future.
5. There is only one major problem to be solved. All others are secondary. Life has one major focus.
6. They act from a wish for power. We act from self-defence, benevolence, and reasons of common decency andmorality. 7. The real problem started with an act of will by the enemy and can only be solved by breaking his will or by making him helpless to act on it.
8. We are not concerned with causes, only with outcomes. 9.Since the enemy is evil, he naturally lies. Communication is not possible. Only force can settle the issue. We tell the truth (news, education). They lie (propaganda).
10. The same actions are 'good' when we do them and 'evil' when the enemy does them. There is doubt that 'we' and 'they' really belong to the same species"
posted by troutfishing at 7:54 AM on March 22, 2003
Actually, the example of Iraqi soldiers at Basra shooting officers instead of following orders to fight a hopeless battle can't be taken as support for our invasion. It helps U.S. troops, obviously, and shows the Iraqis didn't have suicidal loyalty for the commanding officers or regime - but no broader conclusions are warranted.
posted by lathrop at 8:22 AM on March 22, 2003
posted by lathrop at 8:22 AM on March 22, 2003
I think this may be a taster of what's to come 'after' victory.
posted by niceness at 9:28 AM on March 22, 2003
posted by niceness at 9:28 AM on March 22, 2003
niceness - So it begins. But most of the zealots will lay low for a while, until the Americans relax. Then they will begin their campaign to polarize the situation and turn the Iraqi people against the occupying American troops. I hope that I am wrong.
posted by troutfishing at 11:08 AM on March 22, 2003
posted by troutfishing at 11:08 AM on March 22, 2003
The Iraqi troops have thier own unique way of showing their dissent with the Hussein regime: Conscripts shoot their own officers rather than fight. Sorry peaceniks.
Copycats! Why can't they be original? Sorry 82nd Couchborne.
posted by y2karl at 8:48 PM on March 22, 2003
Copycats! Why can't they be original? Sorry 82nd Couchborne.
posted by y2karl at 8:48 PM on March 22, 2003
I'm an idiot. I left that quotation mark in the wrong spot yet again. I suspected this all day.
Flighty these days. Damned flighty. I was drunk and about to head to bed.
posted by crasspastor at 8:50 PM on March 22, 2003
Flighty these days. Damned flighty. I was drunk and about to head to bed.
posted by crasspastor at 8:50 PM on March 22, 2003
Air Force Base Authorizes 'deadly Force' Against Trespassing Protesters.
posted by hama7 at 9:56 PM on March 25, 2003
posted by hama7 at 9:56 PM on March 25, 2003
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posted by pemulis at 7:37 PM on March 21, 2003