Comments on: Gender Identity Crisis

Gender Identity Crisis

ashbury — Sat, 17 May 2003 16:31:50 -0800

Sexual Secret Spurs Deadly Dilemma
Her daughter was known to most people as a cocky Southwestern Ontario pig-farm worker named Angelo, married to a 26-year-old woman named Elizabeth Rudavsky.

A very sad tale of a woman who had a Gender Identity Crisis. Frankly, I can't imagine what sort of horrors both of these people went through. Is it possible that genetic testing will eventually prevent an identity crisis from happening? Is it even desirable? Is this a true case of gender identity crisis?

By: Space Coyote

Space Coyote — Sat, 17 May 2003 17:18:26 -0800

I think the real horror would be being married to someone who worked on a pig farm. Probably why the wife didn't find out for a while..she couldn't get close enough.

By: toby\flat2

toby\flat2 — Sat, 17 May 2003 17:44:30 -0800

"Is it possible that genetic testing will eventually prevent an identity crisis from happening?" Let's hope so, then we can make do with just the beatings and metal pipe violations. Far better.

By: beth

beth — Sat, 17 May 2003 18:02:59 -0800

Egads, your second link has en embedded MIDI file playing "Wind Beneath My Wings" for some unknown reason. Just to add to the whole horror thing, I suppose.

By: ashbury

ashbury — Sat, 17 May 2003 18:28:05 -0800

Feh, sorry beth. I had my speakers turned off. With regard to the beatings, I was curious about that: did she think that is how men act and treat their spouses/significant others (it's a slippery slope, I realize, because there are some men who do exactly that, and men have, for a very long time, been stereotyped as woman-bashing, woman-hating, woman-raping sonsofbitches--once again, not necessarily unfairly)? Or were the beatings a product of her crisis, her chemistry?

By: beth

beth — Sat, 17 May 2003 18:38:21 -0800

I don't think it's possible to say from what was printed in that story about the case. Her gender identification issues might have been totally separate from her cruelty and violence. What kind of psychopath locks up her spouse's *food*? That's just evil. There are plenty of people who switch genders who are *not* handing out beatings on a regular basis, so personally I'd bet that in this case there was some other mental illness or something going on. What we don't know is what her upbringing was like... (has her dad ever beaten her mom?).

By: beth

beth — Sat, 17 May 2003 19:02:50 -0800

Of course, I am an asshat because I said we can't speculate then I speculated.

By: todds

todds — Sat, 17 May 2003 19:57:28 -0800

men have, for a very long time, been stereotyped as woman-bashing, woman-hating, woman-raping sonsofbitches--once again, not necessarily unfairly Which reminds me: time to stop wasting the day here and get back to all that.

By: RJ Reynolds

RJ Reynolds — Sat, 17 May 2003 20:04:59 -0800

Seems to me the difference between being gender dysphoric and being woman-hating is in the gray area between "she was a man . . . she said it was a man's world."

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Sun, 18 May 2003 08:28:59 -0800

Something's very puzzling here - her mother and father knew the truth about Angela - why didn't they say something to Elizabeth before she married her?

By: mitchel

mitchel — Sun, 18 May 2003 11:17:10 -0800

with that box not to be looked into, it's like a modern day bluebeard story. meets journey of natty gann. I think the real horror would be being married to someone who worked on a pig farm. and canadian pig farms are certainly getting a rough reputation. ... not much to discuss about this bleak and slightly exploitative article, though. a very poor way to talk about gender identity, by starting with a murder, imho.

By: ashbury

ashbury — Sun, 18 May 2003 17:43:10 -0800

mitchel, why don't you offer some ideas about how we can discuss this very interesting issue (IMHO) instead of pissing on it?

By: a3matrix

a3matrix — Sun, 18 May 2003 19:15:05 -0800

Don't worry Mitchel. I will take this one. Gender Identity Crisis? PULEASE ! Go find a support group for total losers and get this crap off of mefi That being said. I am glad that woman(victim) did everyone a favor and took care of the problem. Crisis solved. Too bad she had to get the hell beat out of her for 7 months though. The world has real problems, no need to indulge ones people invent to rationalize their screwed up lives.

By: ashbury

ashbury — Sun, 18 May 2003 20:07:23 -0800

a3matrix, believe it or not, I don't have a vested interest in this thread. I found what I thought to be an interesting article and posted it here. There's no need for you to get snitty towards me about it. I would be grateful if you could show me where it says that gender identity crisis isn't a real problem for a minority of people. It certainly appears real enough to me, and this page seems to support it as well, saying: Some persons desire to be desired with such desperate intensity that you can see in their eyes the inner emptiness they seek to fill. But they never can fill the void. At best, the self-styled image is only a fraud, a piece of paper pasted over a gaping hole—an emotional wound—to hide it from their own eyes. At worst, the fraud becomes their only reality, a pathetic lie and a living hell. Thanks for taking the time out of keeping an eye on your busy little real world and giving your opinion on the subject.

By: mitchel

mitchel — Sun, 18 May 2003 21:58:03 -0800

ash, wasn't pissing on the issue, just uncomfortable with the melodrama. i would rather discuss it in a less... exploitative way. ie "gender identity leads to murder, we must look at this issue!!!!" i apologize if you took it personally. your fpp wording does strike me though so i will ask: are you in favor of genetic testing right before marriage? what kind of testing, just xx/xy? i'm not sure what you mean...

By: ashbury

ashbury — Mon, 19 May 2003 05:24:23 -0800

Not to worry, mitchel, no harm done. You're right, the article and my subsequent post were worded in a dramatic way and should have been less so. I was thinking more along the lines of genetic testing at birth. I would bet that the source of gender identity problems could be found at the physical level, in the DNA, and that it's not (solely) a psychological problem. I think many problems and medical issues could be discovered and solved if there were testing at birth. That said, I'm neither for nor against genetic testing of any kind, save in criminal cases, which I am definitely for. I think that it's too early for us to know how to approach the moral and ethical issues that are involved.

By: soyjoy

soyjoy — Mon, 19 May 2003 07:23:59 -0800

ash, just for the record, I was already about to say what mitchel said ("poor way to talk about gender identity, by starting with a murder") before he said it, and when he did I assumed that like myself, he was more referring to the article than criticising you. We had an interesting discussion here about trying to solve the problems of ambiguous gender at birth, though at the moment the link is giving me a Cold Fusion error. (Matt?) Additionally, the main link is now dead (it was at Yahoo News), but I think this is the same story.