Comments on: Mr. Bush goes to Palestine

Mr. Bush goes to Palestine

Hammerikaner — Wed, 28 May 2003 14:17:47 -0800

Mr. Bush goes to Palestine Everyone in the White House must be incredibly giddy. The most incredible political and cultural schism in the world may finally be patched up in the event of a successful round of talks done Texan style--face to face and man to man. George W. Bush will be leaving shortly for a trip to the Middle East to take a crack at solving a little disagreement among the neighbors.

In a way, he is as much the son of Jimmy Carter as he is of Ronnie Reagan. Just a simple man, with more than a few complicated plans, a big, broad smile, and a ten-gallon hat. But will his down-to-earth working man's values be able to put an end to a simmering and increasingly, explosive animosity? Assuming everything works out for the United States and the world in general, is it actually possible that this man could go down as one of the most influential presidents of all time? Or will he ultimately fail like the others that failed before him?

By: Ignatius J. Reilly

Ignatius J. Reilly — Wed, 28 May 2003 14:22:04 -0800

is it actually possible that this man could go down as one of the most influential presidents of all time? He's already just as important as Hoover ever was. * holds out tin cup, slugs bourbon *

By: rocketman

rocketman — Wed, 28 May 2003 14:23:43 -0800

Or will he ultimately fail like the others that failed before him? Find out next week! Same Bush-time, same Bush-channel!

By: The Jesse Helms

The Jesse Helms — Wed, 28 May 2003 14:32:43 -0800

When you kill thousands of innocent civilians, people tend to take you seriously.

By: jacobsee

jacobsee — Wed, 28 May 2003 14:33:31 -0800

1 vote for fail

By: goethean

goethean — Wed, 28 May 2003 14:40:46 -0800

his down-to-earth working man's values You lost me here. Who are you talking about?

By: y2karl

y2karl — Wed, 28 May 2003 14:44:06 -0800

Assuming everything works out for the United States and the world in general, is it actually possible that this man could go down as one of the most influential presidents of all time? Well, there is the economy...

By: quonsar

quonsar — Wed, 28 May 2003 14:48:54 -0800

down-to-earth working man's values you seem to have confused reality bullshit, but what with that ten gallon hat and all, it's understandable. this man has never had to work a day in his life. this man's daddy, when *he* was president, was fascinated at the operation of a laser checkout lane in a supermarket - years after they were common - these people have never shopped for groceries. are we losing the ability to distinguish between the carefully constructed image and the truth? can anyone take the tone of the post seriously?

By: websavvy

websavvy — Wed, 28 May 2003 14:53:52 -0800

I can't. But when people talk about Bush having any talent (other than killing), I think it's a joke.

By: jbelshaw

jbelshaw — Wed, 28 May 2003 14:59:03 -0800

like him or hate him, I for one certainly hope he succeeds in this endeavor. And I would certainly hope that those who claim to be for peace would to.

By: linux

linux — Wed, 28 May 2003 14:59:40 -0800

Determined not to follow in his father's footsteps after GWI, Bush signs off on $15 billion for AIDS research and cuts taxes (always a favorite for the working man's id). This, y2karl, is what he's doing about the economy, whether or not you agree with it. And we may gripe and complain, but considering the crash of the dot-com and the general sluggishness of the market, I'd like to think we're doing pretty good in this economic downturn.

By: rocketman

rocketman — Wed, 28 May 2003 15:03:37 -0800

was fascinated at the operation of a laser checkout lane in a supermarket This is a misrepresentation. What fascinated him was the software the laser scanner was tied into, that kept a real-time update of inventory.

By: maniactown

maniactown — Wed, 28 May 2003 15:03:56 -0800

YHGTBFKM, Hammerikaner.

By: salmacis

salmacis — Wed, 28 May 2003 15:07:17 -0800

There's a sizeable proportion of the American population who think Jr. is the dog's bollocks. The rest of the world just think he's an arse. Controlled by extreme right-wing nutters and the corporate lobby. Seriously, was there ever any hope for this post?

By: linux

linux — Wed, 28 May 2003 15:09:14 -0800

Yes there is salmacis. It's quite interesting to watch a president's third and fourth year, when he starts to think about getting re-elected.

By: psmealey

psmealey — Wed, 28 May 2003 15:14:58 -0800

Working man's values? That's a laugh. As far as anyone can tell, he didn't hold any kind of steady job until he was well into his thirties, and even then he was injected in at the executive level, thanks to some of poppy's connections. I don't know why people continue to believe this bullshit when it flies in the face of the facts. As far as bridging the schism between Palestinians and Israelis, I applaud his efforts... but in point of fact, if in 2001 he hadn't pulled the US out of the peace process, the situation might be a bit less grave than it is today. If this, in some small measure manages to undue the great harm that his administration's early isolationist policies helped cause (there and elsewhere, e.g.: on the subcontinent), I might forgive him. But just for those transgressions, I still have a long list of other grievances.

By: fold_and_mutilate

fold_and_mutilate — Wed, 28 May 2003 15:19:22 -0800

What fascinated him was the software the laser scanner was tied into, that kept a real-time update of inventory. No shit? Imagine. Computer software that counts....who wouldn't be knock-down spellbound. It's quite interesting to watch a president's third and fourth year, when he starts to think about getting re-elected Watching the new exciting tax cuts for the rich (those who got him into office). Yeah, you're so right. It's so....interesting... about as interesting and novel and fascinating as watching computer software count tampons.

By: Dark Messiah

Dark Messiah — Wed, 28 May 2003 15:21:19 -0800

Metafilter: For people smarter than you

By: Postroad

Postroad — Wed, 28 May 2003 15:24:41 -0800

While I certainly do not particualry care for Bush I wish him well in his trying to bring some semblance of order to the areas. For openers, though, "Bush is going to Palestin"? and where is a country named Palestine? I believe he is to meet somewhere in Jordan or at some spot not within the area called The West Bank (belonged to Jordan) or Gaza (belonged to Egypt)... Alas, Hamas and Hizbullah have said in advance that they want Israel out of all the occupied territories and they consider the State of Israel "occupied." So Bush has indeed a big task ahead of him,a task that will be subverted by the crazies on both sides of the arguement--Israel and the Arabs. Sad, because the more moderate on both sides do want peace.

By: cell divide

cell divide — Wed, 28 May 2003 15:28:32 -0800

I agree with Jbelshaw completely. I am extremely happy that Bush is confronting the problem directly and is working for a compromise. If it fails, it fails, but let's at least give the man credit for confronting the problem in what is seemingly a direct and straightforward way.

By: quonsar

quonsar — Wed, 28 May 2003 15:31:54 -0800

This is a misrepresentation. What fascinated him was the software the laser scanner was tied into, that kept a real-time update of inventory. ok, then he was fascinated by the software the laser scanner was tied into, that kept a real-time update of inventory. these people have never gone grocery shopping. better?

By: Ignatius J. Reilly

Ignatius J. Reilly — Wed, 28 May 2003 15:42:32 -0800

Look, quonsar, et al, Bush is blue-collar, up is down, and white is black. Are you some sort of fucking communist, or are you just dumb? Do you people not even get Fox News?

By: timeistight

timeistight — Wed, 28 May 2003 15:45:29 -0800

these people have never gone grocery shopping What the fuck does that have to do with anything? How much grocery shopping do you figure Kennedy or Roosevelt did?

By: orange swan

orange swan — Wed, 28 May 2003 15:56:25 -0800

... and Queen Victoria was in her forties before she realized that the trains weren't free, that ordinary people had to buy tickets. At least Papa and Baby Bush presumably realize that groceries aren't free. Hammerikaner is being facetious, people. Though I'm not clear on what point s/he hoped to make by so doing.

By: Ignatius J. Reilly

Ignatius J. Reilly — Wed, 28 May 2003 15:58:11 -0800

What the fuck does that have to do with anything? How much grocery shopping do you figure Kennedy or Roosevelt did? Well, down-to-earth working man's values are often exemplified by those who do not have personal shoppers. Being born a billionaire doesn't make you evil, but how it makes you working-class is beyond me.

By: hairyeyeball

hairyeyeball — Wed, 28 May 2003 16:11:16 -0800

Fail and declare "peace with honor" á la Nixon.

By: orange swan

orange swan — Wed, 28 May 2003 16:13:39 -0800

... and be impeached. Hairyeyeball, you have given us hope.

By: Hammerikaner

Hammerikaner — Wed, 28 May 2003 16:16:11 -0800

Remember, Ignatius, not only is up down and white black, but war is peace, freedom is slavery, and ignorance is strength. And orange swan, isn't it nice to have a post once in a while that confuses the intent of its author? Should we all just drive home our own points all the time? Or is this about invoking thought and critical analysis?

By: Hammerikaner

Hammerikaner — Wed, 28 May 2003 16:20:02 -0800

btw... For the post, I tried to find a good link to something about Bush's involvement with the Skull and Bones society for the phrase "working man's values," but all I could find was disreputable New World Order, Illuminati-ridden rags.

By: AccordionGuy

AccordionGuy — Wed, 28 May 2003 16:48:02 -0800

Hey, I develop software for a living, and I find the point-of-sale software they're using at Loblaws (a grocery chain in Ontario) pretty fascinating. Particularly the little user interface details, which include playing back a cash-register like sound every time an item is scanned.

By: Hildago

Hildago — Wed, 28 May 2003 16:54:34 -0800

This was a good post. Bush is a horrible person. Yet, I hope he succeeds. The reasons should be obvious. What I fear is that he will appear to succeed, then campaign on being a man of peace, and that people will ignore the three wars, one of them perpetual, and re-elect him a few months before the israel and palestine explode into violence again.

By: quonsar

quonsar — Wed, 28 May 2003 17:03:56 -0800

sounds about right, hildago.

By: fuzz

fuzz — Wed, 28 May 2003 17:21:25 -0800

Yet Another BushFilter thread: 2 posts expressing that perhaps ME peace would not be a bad thing 43 posts arguing about whether Bush is an idiot and/or Satan 0 posts attempting to understand why Bush's persona might appeal to people who are not idiots 0 posts trying to understand what Bush's strategy for the elections will be 0 posts attempting to construct an alternative ME policy to oppose Bush in 2004 Sometimes I wonder whether everyone on MeFi is being paid by Bush's campaign to sow cynicism and irrelevance among his opponents. Unfortunately, in my case, it seems to be working.

By: scarabic

scarabic — Wed, 28 May 2003 17:26:17 -0800

(#44) Working man's values? That's a laugh. ... I don't know why people continue to believe this bullshit when it flies in the face of the facts. Das cause he talk like a real feller. Ain't like them uppity faggets 'n hot tubbas in Californy, ner them pinko pointy-heads in the New York City . [angry mob nearby: "NEW YORK CITY!?"]

By: Kevs

Kevs — Wed, 28 May 2003 17:26:24 -0800

Holy Moly... You have to be mightily "Blinded by the Left" to hear that the most substantial MidEast talks since Camp David, invoking a set guideline for reconciliation and not simply "promises to open negotiations", have occurred more or less because of the Bush administration, and think only "Well, Bush is behind it, the grandstanding moral-less billionaire baby-killer, so it must be a terrible thing." It's like knocking the Peace Corps because Kennedy was also responsible for the start of Vietnam. Although France is supporting the peace talks, so maybe that will get some of the most hyperbolic of those present back on board. (Speaking of hyperbole, did anyone catch Krugman's newest NYT article? He basically argues that the tax cut will cause investors to view US treasury bonds as junk bonds from a banana republic. Bejeezus. But, I guess, if it's hyperbolic enough for the Times, it's certainly not out of reach for your average MeFite)

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Wed, 28 May 2003 17:33:27 -0800

cuts taxes (always a favorite for the working man's id). All those working men in the top tax brackets and/or with significant income from dividends. I don't know too many of those, do you? I read recently that $1 paid out as unemployment compensation generates $1.70 in economic activity; that same federal dollar in the form of tax cuts on dividends will generate nine cents in economic activity. (I have no idea how these numbers are arrived that so I'm not about to vouch for them or anything.) Or as another fellow put it, sure these tax cuts will boost the economy. The Swiss economy...

By: dhartung

dhartung — Wed, 28 May 2003 18:12:53 -0800

Metafilter: Where threads are pre-derailed, for your pleasure.

By: Hammerikaner

Hammerikaner — Wed, 28 May 2003 18:17:23 -0800

I am to please.

By: Hammerikaner

Hammerikaner — Wed, 28 May 2003 18:19:39 -0800

But not spell "aim" correctly. Seriously, I'll have to be doing some incredible doublethinking if this president that I so despise actually does something good in the world. If he brings peace to the Middle East and the economy turns around... well... what then? What will us good little liberals do? Do we try to chink at his armor and find things that could have been done better? Do we rationalize it by saying it wasn't his doing, but just coincidental? How do you account for success on the other side?

By: mcsweetie

mcsweetie — Wed, 28 May 2003 18:34:39 -0800

"Well, Bush is behind it, the grandstanding moral-less billionaire baby-killer, so it must be a terrible thing." who said middle east peace was a terrible thing?

By: PrinceValium

PrinceValium — Wed, 28 May 2003 18:37:51 -0800

Sometimes I wonder whether everyone on MeFi is being paid by Bush's campaign to sow cynicism I got paid $300 in the summer of 2001, then I had to give it all back the following April.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Wed, 28 May 2003 18:39:30 -0800

I for one support anything that can lead to a legitimate Mideast peace deal, but I already doubt the legitimacy of this roadmap just by the time frame. Bush's plan envisions a full state of Palestine by 2005- one which is acquired by checkpoints on said roadmap... checkpoints which can easily be declared null and void at any point in the process. Forgive my cynicism, but Ariel Sharon is as trustworthy with claims to maintain solidarity with this roadmap as Yasser Arafat is with his promise to condemn suicide attacks. The fact is, this "roadmap" allows for dramatic and optimistic Israeli withdrawal and talks of solidifed statehood right up to the 2004 elections- whereafter Sharon can use as much as a trespassing violation to declare the process failed and order a full invasion back into the West Bank.

By: eatitlive

eatitlive — Wed, 28 May 2003 18:45:08 -0800

How do you account for success on the other side? Find some sex scandal to dote on.

By: Hildago

Hildago — Wed, 28 May 2003 20:09:05 -0800

Corollary to Godwin's law: whenever someone invokes France in order to insult the anti-war movement, the thread ends and the transgressor buys everybody ice cream.

By: wfrgms

wfrgms — Wed, 28 May 2003 20:20:43 -0800

"down-to-earth working man's values" Thanks Hammerikaner. Thanks a fucking lot. I just spit beer all over my laptop.

By: stavrosthewonderchicken

stavrosthewonderchicken — Wed, 28 May 2003 20:38:19 -0800

Yay! Ice cream! ...but Bush is still evil, right?

By: jbou

jbou — Wed, 28 May 2003 20:49:13 -0800

I'm all for peace, and if Bush can pull it off I'll toast him and tell him good job. I can do this and still despise his fiscal policy, and his irresponsible war in Iraq, and his gutting of environment regs. Question, how much money do you think this peace will cost us? the economy in Israel has fallen on hard times, and I smell a big bribe going to Sharon to help his ailing economy. I still wouldn't be mad at this if we get a maintained peace.

By: specialk420

specialk420 — Wed, 28 May 2003 23:38:54 -0800

i hate the simp (the former drunk and cokehead who found god and to this day claims his black and blue marks are caused by choking on pretzles) with every bone of my body - never the less, i hope he uses his fast eroding moment in history (and toe-hold on power) to push for a better world for the people on the streets of jerusalem, gaza, and rafah.

By: salmacis

salmacis — Thu, 29 May 2003 00:17:33 -0800

I wouldn't give Bush too much credit for the Middle East. Blair practically forced him into it as one of the prices of British support for Bush's little desert adventure. Europe has long seen a settlement of the Israel/Palestine problem as key to solving the entire Middle East. I glad that Bush is now following. Like Hildago, I fear that Bush will only go as far as is necessary to get re-elected. Clinton really made a difference in Northern Ireland. If Bush's heart is really in it, Clinton's example demonstrates the influence the President of the United States wields.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Thu, 29 May 2003 05:41:34 -0800

He won't succeed. No one will. And who gives a rat's ass if you think about it? We pretend to so we can sound all smart and shit, and act morally superior to eachother, and to avoid work or maybe even leaving the house to get laid, but really in the end, I could'nt give a shit. Let 'em kill eachother. Let everybody kill eachother. That's the way it always has been. I'll just avoid and drink some beer. Have fun.

By: reidfleming

reidfleming — Thu, 29 May 2003 06:18:24 -0800

He will fail just like those who came before him and those that will follow. There will never, ever, ever be peace in the Middle East. Period. If every human being on the planet were to die, the cockroaches over there will be fighting each other.

By: FormlessOne

FormlessOne — Thu, 29 May 2003 06:47:54 -0800

What diplomacy! Arm Israel, threaten Palestine, and use the bombing of Afghanistan and Iraq as bargaining chips - gee, wish I'd thought of that. They've already signed (and broken) more than one peace accord. I don't hold out much hope for a lasting peace. I do expect that the United States will continue to use the Israel-Palestine conflict for some time as a way of manipulating Middle East politics, though.

By: quonsar

quonsar — Thu, 29 May 2003 07:43:25 -0800

I'll just avoid and drink some beer. Have fun. alcoholic cliche' #35,775: the sorry state of the world justifies increased alcohol intake. stay tuned for tomorrows show, "ahh fuck, it's raining out".

By: gottabefunky

gottabefunky — Thu, 29 May 2003 12:47:54 -0800

I catch myself wishing this guy to fail, go down in flames, at any- and everything he puts his mind to, and then realizing what exactly that would entail: us losing to the Iraqis, not finding Osama or Saddam or the anthrax mailer, the economy imploding, the African AIDS epidemic worsening, the Middle East peace process flying off the rails yet again... Then I get so frustrated I just stop thinking about it. For a while.