Hate on display.

July 23, 2003 12:01 AM

Hate on display. The Anti-Defamation League has a visual database of symbols devised or co-opted by neo-Nazis and supremacist groups worldwide, as well as numbers and acronyms with racist connotations. Although most of us know what 88 means, there's also info about others such as the communist-separatist American Front and the Five Percenters. More neo-Nazi flags here; flags and badges here. Please remember: while racism is always immoral, symbols themselves can have several meanings.
posted by 111 (26 comments total)

Interesting. Thanks, 111.
posted by plep at 12:09 AM on July 23, 2003

I'll second that. Great post, 111.
posted by ttrendel at 12:19 AM on July 23, 2003

>t I still wonder if it's really worth it for MeFi to be associated with that kind of business

Worth what? Did I miss the protestors?

I think this kind of nitpicking "boy who cried wolf" mentality only helps hate groups by making their opponents seem anal and hysterical. I would save the self-righteousness until there's an ad that clearly is anti-insert_group_here. Regardless, this is clearly something meant to be discussed in metatalk than on mefi's front page.
posted by skallas at 12:26 AM on July 23, 2003

Isn't 88, hugs and kisses in ham radio?

-N9YKX
posted by drezdn at 12:36 AM on July 23, 2003

I always groan when I see this kind of self-styled "database," after having been exposed to those similar, concerning symbols of ostensible "satanic ritual abusers" (including a scrawled "OZZY") that various police departments were circulating in the early nineties.

I mean, come on. "American Front" is/was one guy, Boyd Rice, and whoever he was able to get to pose for pictures with him in crypto-Nazi drag in '89. As I recall, flyers purporting to originate from the erstwhile Front terrorized the Haight for a few weeks in the summer of '90.

I agree with skallas in that hysteria over the supposed prevalance of a bunch of symbols of unifxed meaning, propagated by an unreliable advocacy group, is intentionally or otherwise a FUD tactic that winds up empowering precisely those groups it ostensibly warns against.
posted by adamgreenfield at 12:40 AM on July 23, 2003

My dad used to get the Southern Poverty Law Center's newsletter, which lists instances of hate crimes and hate speech. But most of the items would be something like, "A swastika was drawn in chalk on a telephone pole in Delaware."
posted by transona5 at 1:03 AM on July 23, 2003

It's interesting about symbols having multiple meanings, however. Down here, a neo-Nazi group calling themselves National Action have "stolen" the Eureka Flag for themselves - formally a flag of the trade union movement. Now when you see a Eureka Flag sticker on the back of a car, you don't know if the driver is a fascist or a wharfie. Someone pointed out that at the Eureka Stockade, Chinese miners stood alongside white miners, something the "Asians Out" nationalists who use the flag have forgotten.
posted by Jimbob at 1:43 AM on July 23, 2003

Well, the CPUSA will probably sue MeFi (and the ADL) for describing the "American Front" nutcases as "communist", but looking them up led me to this very interesting article on the "Third Position" and assorted lunacies.
Oh and 111: very pertinent reference to DK "Nazi Punks Fuck Off" in the thread title. Ah! The memories!
posted by talos at 2:23 AM on July 23, 2003

88 means something? Besides Dale Jarrett anyway?

I guess if one looks hard enough, some bit of symbology can be found in anything.
posted by mischief at 5:04 AM on July 23, 2003

88 brings to mind sad memories... if you're Mike Dukakis.
posted by clevershark at 6:22 AM on July 23, 2003

True story: I took my little sister to her first Metallica show (back in the 80's). Now, keep in mind that we lived in Austin...home of the "hook 'em horns" sign...which is remarkably similar to the "devil's horn" sign thrown by the head banging metal thrashers.

So, the band is playing, our recorders are going, we're dancing around...and she looks out at the crowd and back at me and says, "Wow! Who knew this many Metallica fans liked UT!"

Symbols are what you make of them.

(As an aside, I didn't know about the 88 thing until I read about here back when some retailer was selling shirts that raised a protest. Also, I'd like to mention that my 420 has nothing to do with the whole Hitler's birthday, Columbine, Waco, conspiracy stuff.)
posted by dejah420 at 6:57 AM on July 23, 2003

Also, I'd like to mention that my 420 has nothing to do with the whole Hitler's birthday, Columbine, Waco, conspiracy stuff.

No shit. I can't tell if an amalgam of the Nazi and pot religions would he hilarious or Über annoying:

"It, like, cures every disease from rickets to super-advanced cancer and you can make the same amount of paper from one acre as from 40,000 acres of trees, but, like, the Elders of Zion and shit don't want us to have it."
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:21 AM on July 23, 2003

they do offer a disclaimer of sorts and do link to the ADL, but I still wonder if it's really worth it for MeFi to be associated with that kind of business)

you're as pompous as much as you're anal.
posted by angry modem at 7:27 AM on July 23, 2003

Also, This morning I was eating Alpha-Bits and I figured out that by careful manipulation of the spoon, the word "nazi" can be spelled.

I say we storm the factory.
posted by jonmc at 8:10 AM on July 23, 2003

That first link in the post is funny. It looks like a swastica made out of high-heals.
posted by tomplus2 at 8:11 AM on July 23, 2003

Speaking of swastika, you must visit the "gentleswastika.com".
posted by tomplus2 at 8:15 AM on July 23, 2003

I still wonder if it's really worth it for MeFi to be associated with that kind of business

very pertinent reference to DK "Nazi Punks Fuck Off" in the thread title.

huh? has the thread been edited? i see neither original of those references?

...the Elders of Zion and shit don't want us to have it
too funny, Curley
posted by danOstuporStar at 9:18 AM on July 23, 2003

has the thread been edited?
It seems so... They were there a while ago... The page title was "in a real fourth reich you'd be the first to go".
posted by talos at 9:38 AM on July 23, 2003

dan, apparently it has!

My final comment, now deleted, questioned MeFi's decision to accept an ad from a store that sells clothes with Nazi-related iconography (it's the "NSFW T-Shirts" TextAd listed here).

The original thread title was "In a real fourth reich you'll be the first to go", from the lyrics of the DK song mentioned by talos.

I think I'm going to MeTa just to know why.
posted by 111 at 9:59 AM on July 23, 2003

Can't Matt let us know when he edits threads? (metatalk self-link)
posted by zpousman at 10:47 AM on July 23, 2003

I didn't know what 88 meant, but i'm not really hip to all that racist slang.
posted by insomnyuk at 1:06 PM on July 23, 2003

The German military's use of the Iron Cross predates WWII and Nazis and is in fact, still in use by all branches of the German military in a modernized form.

The Klan uses the cross. Christians must be racist, huh?
posted by mccreath at 1:22 PM on July 23, 2003

Also, This morning I was eating Alpha-Bits and I figured out that by careful manipulation of the spoon, the word "nazi" can be spelled.


"Brian! There's a message in my Alpha-Bits! It says 'Oooooo!'"
"Peter, those are Cheerios."
posted by nath at 1:32 PM on July 23, 2003

88 means something? Besides Dale Jarrett anyway?

You're kidding, right? 88 = Riley Odoms, starting tight end for the "Orange Crush"-era Denver Broncos. Everyone knows that.
posted by scody at 1:50 PM on July 23, 2003

88 is, was and always will be the sainted brother Lynn Swann. the number should be retired from all uses everywhere.
posted by planetkyoto at 5:06 PM on July 23, 2003

I find it weird that the Five Percenters are listed as a "hate group" alongside various neo-Nazi organizations. They are a religious group with many beliefs that I personally find distasteful, but it is simply wrong to classify them in this manner.
posted by Rebis at 6:43 PM on July 23, 2003