Comments on: Hate on display.

Hate on display.

111 — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:01:59 -0800

Hate on display. The Anti-Defamation League has a visual database of symbols devised or co-opted by neo-Nazis and supremacist groups worldwide, as well as numbers and acronyms with racist connotations. Although most of us know what 88 means, there's also info about others such as the communist-separatist American Front and the Five Percenters. More neo-Nazi flags here; flags and badges here. Please remember: while racism is always immoral, symbols themselves can have several meanings.

By: plep

plep — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:09:20 -0800

Interesting. Thanks, 111.

By: ttrendel

ttrendel — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:19:47 -0800

I'll second that. Great post, 111.

By: skallas

skallas — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:26:14 -0800

>t I still wonder if it's really worth it for MeFi to be associated with that kind of business Worth what? Did I miss the protestors? I think this kind of nitpicking "boy who cried wolf" mentality only helps hate groups by making their opponents seem anal and hysterical. I would save the self-righteousness until there's an ad that clearly is anti-insert_group_here. Regardless, this is clearly something meant to be discussed in metatalk than on mefi's front page.

By: drezdn

drezdn — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:36:54 -0800

Isn't 88, hugs and kisses in ham radio? -N9YKX

By: adamgreenfield

adamgreenfield — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 00:40:24 -0800

I always groan when I see this kind of self-styled "database," after having been exposed to those similar, concerning symbols of ostensible "satanic ritual abusers" (including a scrawled "OZZY") that various police departments were circulating in the early nineties. I mean, come on. "American Front" is/was one guy, Boyd Rice, and whoever he was able to get to pose for pictures with him in crypto-Nazi drag in '89. As I recall, flyers purporting to originate from the erstwhile Front terrorized the Haight for a few weeks in the summer of '90. I agree with skallas in that hysteria over the supposed prevalance of a bunch of symbols of unifxed meaning, propagated by an unreliable advocacy group, is intentionally or otherwise a FUD tactic that winds up empowering precisely those groups it ostensibly warns against.

By: transona5

transona5 — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 01:03:50 -0800

My dad used to get the Southern Poverty Law Center's newsletter, which lists instances of hate crimes and hate speech. But most of the items would be something like, "A swastika was drawn in chalk on a telephone pole in Delaware."

By: Jimbob

Jimbob — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 01:43:32 -0800

It's interesting about symbols having multiple meanings, however. Down here, a neo-Nazi group calling themselves National Action have "stolen" the Eureka Flag for themselves - formally a flag of the trade union movement. Now when you see a Eureka Flag sticker on the back of a car, you don't know if the driver is a fascist or a wharfie. Someone pointed out that at the Eureka Stockade, Chinese miners stood alongside white miners, something the "Asians Out" nationalists who use the flag have forgotten.

By: talos

talos — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 02:23:53 -0800

Well, the CPUSA will probably sue MeFi (and the ADL) for describing the "American Front" nutcases as "communist", but looking them up led me to this very interesting article on the "Third Position" and assorted lunacies. Oh and 111: very pertinent reference to DK "Nazi Punks Fuck Off" in the thread title. Ah! The memories!

By: mischief

mischief — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 05:04:51 -0800

88 means something? Besides Dale Jarrett anyway? I guess if one looks hard enough, some bit of symbology can be found in anything.

By: clevershark

clevershark — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:22:59 -0800

88 brings to mind sad memories... if you're Mike Dukakis.

By: dejah420

dejah420 — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 06:57:28 -0800

True story: I took my little sister to her first Metallica show (back in the 80's). Now, keep in mind that we lived in Austin...home of the "hook 'em horns" sign...which is remarkably similar to the "devil's horn" sign thrown by the head banging metal thrashers. So, the band is playing, our recorders are going, we're dancing around...and she looks out at the crowd and back at me and says, "Wow! Who knew this many Metallica fans liked UT!" Symbols are what you make of them. (As an aside, I didn't know about the 88 thing until I read about here back when some retailer was selling shirts that raised a protest. Also, I'd like to mention that my 420 has nothing to do with the whole Hitler's birthday, Columbine, Waco, conspiracy stuff.)

By: Mayor Curley

Mayor Curley — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:21:04 -0800

Also, I'd like to mention that my 420 has nothing to do with the whole Hitler's birthday, Columbine, Waco, conspiracy stuff. No shit. I can't tell if an amalgam of the Nazi and pot religions would he hilarious or Über annoying: "It, like, cures every disease from rickets to super-advanced cancer and you can make the same amount of paper from one acre as from 40,000 acres of trees, but, like, the Elders of Zion and shit don't want us to have it."

By: angry modem

angry modem — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 07:27:25 -0800

they do offer a disclaimer of sorts and do link to the ADL, but I still wonder if it's really worth it for MeFi to be associated with that kind of business) you're as pompous as much as you're anal.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:10:06 -0800

Also, This morning I was eating Alpha-Bits and I figured out that by careful manipulation of the spoon, the word "nazi" can be spelled. I say we storm the factory.

By: tomplus2

tomplus2 — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:11:58 -0800

That first link in the post is funny. It looks like a swastica made out of high-heals.

By: tomplus2

tomplus2 — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 08:15:47 -0800

Speaking of swastika, you must visit the "gentleswastika.com".

By: danOstuporStar

danOstuporStar — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:18:51 -0800

I still wonder if it's really worth it for MeFi to be associated with that kind of business very pertinent reference to DK "Nazi Punks Fuck Off" in the thread title. huh? has the thread been edited? i see neither original of those references? ...the Elders of Zion and shit don't want us to have it too funny, Curley

By: talos

talos — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:38:31 -0800

has the thread been edited? It seems so... They were there a while ago... The page title was "in a real fourth reich you'd be the first to go".

By: 111

111 — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 09:59:14 -0800

dan, apparently it has! My final comment, now deleted, questioned MeFi's decision to accept an ad from a store that sells clothes with Nazi-related iconography (it's the "NSFW T-Shirts" TextAd listed here). The original thread title was "In a real fourth reich you'll be the first to go", from the lyrics of the DK song mentioned by talos. I think I'm going to MeTa just to know why.

By: zpousman

zpousman — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 10:47:41 -0800

Can't Matt let us know when he edits threads? (metatalk self-link)

By: insomnyuk

insomnyuk — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:06:40 -0800

I didn't know what 88 meant, but i'm not really hip to all that racist slang.

By: mccreath

mccreath — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:22:48 -0800

The German military's use of the Iron Cross predates WWII and Nazis and is in fact, still in use by all branches of the German military in a modernized form. The Klan uses the cross. Christians must be racist, huh?

By: nath

nath — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:32:40 -0800

Also, This morning I was eating Alpha-Bits and I figured out that by careful manipulation of the spoon, the word "nazi" can be spelled. "Brian! There's a message in my Alpha-Bits! It says 'Oooooo!'" "Peter, those are Cheerios."

By: scody

scody — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 13:50:55 -0800

88 means something? Besides Dale Jarrett anyway? You're kidding, right? 88 = Riley Odoms, starting tight end for the "Orange Crush"-era Denver Broncos. Everyone knows that.

By: planetkyoto

planetkyoto — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 17:06:08 -0800

88 is, was and always will be the sainted brother Lynn Swann. the number should be retired from all uses everywhere.

By: Rebis

Rebis — Wed, 23 Jul 2003 18:43:41 -0800

I find it weird that the Five Percenters are listed as a "hate group" alongside various neo-Nazi organizations. They are a religious group with many beliefs that I personally find distasteful, but it is simply wrong to classify them in this manner.