Nice guy Charles, finishing last
July 29, 2003 8:09 AM Subscribe
The Price of Nice. I am out to prove once and for all that nice guys truly finish last and prove to myself that women are a lost cause in the realms of romance and love. [via deviantART; Message Forums]
What's so nice about snooping around your ex-girlfriend's computer?
posted by jodic at 8:19 AM on July 29, 2003
posted by jodic at 8:19 AM on July 29, 2003
I am out to prove once and for all that nice guys truly finish last
Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours.
posted by kindall at 8:22 AM on July 29, 2003
Argue for your limitations, and sure enough, they're yours.
posted by kindall at 8:22 AM on July 29, 2003
I don't think it's just women or men. In general, people suck. Then they throw in hormones and high expectations associated with romance and expect things to get easier? Riiight.
Although I do have my own bitter rants. But I do think that most people have a choice to not suck and sometimes, they occasionally rise above most of the crap and you see people who are truly happy together.
posted by weston at 8:23 AM on July 29, 2003
Although I do have my own bitter rants. But I do think that most people have a choice to not suck and sometimes, they occasionally rise above most of the crap and you see people who are truly happy together.
posted by weston at 8:23 AM on July 29, 2003
Ok people as promised i am going to explain this project. I am out to prove once and for all that nice guys truly finish last and prove to myself that women are a lost cause in the realms of romance and love. It is now time to explain myself and why i have such bitter feelings toward women in general, and alos towards men as well.
First few sentences he pancakes himself. He wants to prove a point, yet how do you know the future, you don't. So he takes his problem and proves his past with what he thinks is his future. Not a good experiment, because it is not contrlled well. Also he dated a terriblewoman girl so all woman are bad. What about his mom?
posted by thomcatspike at 8:25 AM on July 29, 2003
First few sentences he pancakes himself. He wants to prove a point, yet how do you know the future, you don't. So he takes his problem and proves his past with what he thinks is his future. Not a good experiment, because it is not contrlled well. Also he dated a terrible
posted by thomcatspike at 8:25 AM on July 29, 2003
What's so nice about snooping around your ex-girlfriend's computer?
That was my thought, too. I was wondering if the snooping through the computer was going to be followed by wild, passionate makeup sex with the ex-girlfriend, which would have proved the author's premise.
Really, the guy's a terrible writer. His style has all the indications of having written the entries while on an andreneline high of indignation. Editors, people, editors! Hire an editor!
posted by deanc at 8:35 AM on July 29, 2003
That was my thought, too. I was wondering if the snooping through the computer was going to be followed by wild, passionate makeup sex with the ex-girlfriend, which would have proved the author's premise.
Really, the guy's a terrible writer. His style has all the indications of having written the entries while on an andreneline high of indignation. Editors, people, editors! Hire an editor!
posted by deanc at 8:35 AM on July 29, 2003
This would actually be an interesting experiment if it were being conducted by someone who was less screwed up. A year of being actively good to people, documented. How cool would that be?
posted by onlyconnect at 8:36 AM on July 29, 2003
posted by onlyconnect at 8:36 AM on July 29, 2003
No wonder his girlfriend is cheating on him. He probably wrote her a love letter and she realized what a horrible writer he is. She's a literary slut, it's soooo obvious.
posted by damnitkage at 8:37 AM on July 29, 2003
posted by damnitkage at 8:37 AM on July 29, 2003
I never have liked that epigram. In dating I've always been pretty quick to write off anyone who used it. It reeks of self-pity and lack of a sense of personal responsibility. And as in this case, guys who use it never do qualify as nice.
Yeah, only connect, it would be a great experiment and a site I would visit. Hmm, calling all nice, positive, literate MeFiers...
posted by orange swan at 8:40 AM on July 29, 2003
Yeah, only connect, it would be a great experiment and a site I would visit. Hmm, calling all nice, positive, literate MeFiers...
posted by orange swan at 8:40 AM on July 29, 2003
I'm with orange swan, nice guys can kiss my ass. rarely, if ever, are they actually nice.
posted by jodic at 8:41 AM on July 29, 2003
posted by jodic at 8:41 AM on July 29, 2003
onlyconnect: I'm not claiming to be some kind of saint, but I've done the 'being nice' thing for a while (just gave it up recently.) With like-minded people, it works brilliantly. With the majority of people, they are at first appreciative, then you get taken for granted. I would imagine that most people would have the same results - a few lovely, generous and giving friends, and a huge bunch of people that you are a friend to, but are definitely not a friend to you.
I predict he'll get the same thing, except that given his bitterness, probably the potential 'good friends' will stay away too.
Also, what kindall said.
posted by different at 8:42 AM on July 29, 2003
I predict he'll get the same thing, except that given his bitterness, probably the potential 'good friends' will stay away too.
Also, what kindall said.
posted by different at 8:42 AM on July 29, 2003
Actually, I'd say bitter, vengeful, self-obsessed, pessimistic men generally finish last. And then they feel all vindicated and whine about how they're one of the "nice guys" and proceed to predictably using one bad apple as proof that all women are selfish, heart-breaking tramps and it's THEIR fault if a nice guy can't maintain a relationship when really the guy is stunningly depressing to be around and only talks about his ex-girlfriends.
It's a vicious cycle really.
posted by nelleish at 8:48 AM on July 29, 2003
It's a vicious cycle really.
posted by nelleish at 8:48 AM on July 29, 2003
For the most part females in general condition us to respond the way we do. In todays society children are still raised by the mother, or in some cases a close facsimile. Our society is based on such outdated ideals but hey the old people dont want to change because change means learning and it seem that all (save for a few) of the older generation feels it isnt necessary to do so.
This guy is confused and needs to do more research. And while he may be a nice guy (the bitterness prevents the niceness from revealing itself, I think, and the snooping, while understandable in this case, certainly isn't respectful), the chip on his shoulder prohibits others from seeing it. My prediction is that his "project" is a form of anger and he'll get over it fairly soon.
Charles, if your read this, just be a nice guy. Trust me, your love life will work itself out. Be true to yourself and in time, everything will fall into place.
posted by ashbury at 8:48 AM on July 29, 2003
This guy is confused and needs to do more research. And while he may be a nice guy (the bitterness prevents the niceness from revealing itself, I think, and the snooping, while understandable in this case, certainly isn't respectful), the chip on his shoulder prohibits others from seeing it. My prediction is that his "project" is a form of anger and he'll get over it fairly soon.
Charles, if your read this, just be a nice guy. Trust me, your love life will work itself out. Be true to yourself and in time, everything will fall into place.
posted by ashbury at 8:48 AM on July 29, 2003
The both swear they didnt have sex but i mean here are the facts, he put it in, they started going at it, the guy suffers from premature ejaculation.
Wait, wait wait, always or just then?
Sex is sex even if you dont finish, but i think in his case he did
Sounds like. If this kid can avoid his Ritalin long enough to write a few thousand more run-on sentences/ posts, I'll be there to enjoy.
posted by yerfatma at 8:52 AM on July 29, 2003
Wait, wait wait, always or just then?
Sex is sex even if you dont finish, but i think in his case he did
Sounds like. If this kid can avoid his Ritalin long enough to write a few thousand more run-on sentences/ posts, I'll be there to enjoy.
posted by yerfatma at 8:52 AM on July 29, 2003
This would actually be an interesting experiment if it were being conducted by someone who was less screwed up.
I think it's going to be pretty interesting anyway, because he's so messed up. Now if we could only find this ex-girlfriend of his and get her to start a blog to defend herself.
posted by BirdD0g at 8:58 AM on July 29, 2003
I think it's going to be pretty interesting anyway, because he's so messed up. Now if we could only find this ex-girlfriend of his and get her to start a blog to defend herself.
posted by BirdD0g at 8:58 AM on July 29, 2003
im going to try this nice guy thing for one year and if i am single at the end of this year i give up on women entirely. I will join a monastary and become a monk.
Wonder if he's serious? Sounds like a great premise for another lousy reality-TV show.
And, c'mon, people -- Are you really surprised to find bad grammar and lousy writing on a 'blog? Just for fun some time, head over to Blogger's front page and randomly select samples from their "Fresh Blogs: The 10 most recently published blogs" list. The only thing that should surprise you is that occasionally, just once in a while, you actually find coherent sentences with subjects and verbs (and now and again you you even find something well-written and interesting.)
posted by Shane at 8:59 AM on July 29, 2003
Wonder if he's serious? Sounds like a great premise for another lousy reality-TV show.
And, c'mon, people -- Are you really surprised to find bad grammar and lousy writing on a 'blog? Just for fun some time, head over to Blogger's front page and randomly select samples from their "Fresh Blogs: The 10 most recently published blogs" list. The only thing that should surprise you is that occasionally, just once in a while, you actually find coherent sentences with subjects and verbs (and now and again you you even find something well-written and interesting.)
posted by Shane at 8:59 AM on July 29, 2003
"Nice guys" are phonies.
posted by creamed corn at 9:04 AM on July 29, 2003
posted by creamed corn at 9:04 AM on July 29, 2003
Truely nice guys do have a hard time of it in the dating world. But the same is true of nice girls, almost to he same degree. They just don't tend to lash out at the world quite so much.
posted by Space Coyote at 9:12 AM on July 29, 2003
posted by Space Coyote at 9:12 AM on July 29, 2003
What an asshole! I don't know the whole story, but having glimpsed his character, I'm going to say that his girlfriend was right to cheat on him.
If John Lennon was correct and in the end the love that you take is equal to the love that you make, he's going to be alone for a long time.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:13 AM on July 29, 2003
If John Lennon was correct and in the end the love that you take is equal to the love that you make, he's going to be alone for a long time.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:13 AM on July 29, 2003
True, games theory suggests that truly nice guys (i.e., total altruists) don't do as well as those that are selfish some of the time.
Still, this guy is a dumbass.
posted by moonbiter at 9:13 AM on July 29, 2003
Still, this guy is a dumbass.
posted by moonbiter at 9:13 AM on July 29, 2003
One of those old sketch films, possibly Amazon Women on the Moon, had a bit where a guy (Steve Guttenberg) was checked out by his date (Rosanna Arquette), via a network which allowed her to get faxed reports about him submitted by women he'd been with in the past.
In that vein, I think everyone who dates should have a blog. Except they don't get to write in it. Other people do.
(Insert apt quote from Robbie Burns here.)
posted by George_Spiggott at 9:14 AM on July 29, 2003
In that vein, I think everyone who dates should have a blog. Except they don't get to write in it. Other people do.
(Insert apt quote from Robbie Burns here.)
posted by George_Spiggott at 9:14 AM on July 29, 2003
What a silly boy. He needs to study the Tao of Steve.
posted by troutfishing at 9:14 AM on July 29, 2003
posted by troutfishing at 9:14 AM on July 29, 2003
I'm going to say that his girlfriend was right to cheat on him.
*blinks*
Please let's not continue on this particular double standard whereby women may use cheating as a recourse in a bad relationship instead of either ending it or trying to fix what's wrong.
posted by Space Coyote at 9:20 AM on July 29, 2003
*blinks*
Please let's not continue on this particular double standard whereby women may use cheating as a recourse in a bad relationship instead of either ending it or trying to fix what's wrong.
posted by Space Coyote at 9:20 AM on July 29, 2003
Amen, Space Cayote. Also out is the the "I'm going to tell him I'm pregnant as a means of testing him/revenge."
I have ended friendships with women for even saying they were thinking of doing that.
Breakups are such a test of character.
posted by orange swan at 9:25 AM on July 29, 2003
I have ended friendships with women for even saying they were thinking of doing that.
Breakups are such a test of character.
posted by orange swan at 9:25 AM on July 29, 2003
I really do believe in karma, different, but I don't think it works out like math sums -- I don't think you necessarily get good things back from people you are good to. But I think it comes back in other ways. Or maybe the belief system gives all the psychological benefits of religion without the loss of all those Sunday mornings.
But it's like any type of faith -- it would be interesting to see someone try to prove it. So I'm with you, orange swan, I'd read a weblog about this in a minute. Just not by this particular guy.
posted by onlyconnect at 9:26 AM on July 29, 2003
But it's like any type of faith -- it would be interesting to see someone try to prove it. So I'm with you, orange swan, I'd read a weblog about this in a minute. Just not by this particular guy.
posted by onlyconnect at 9:26 AM on July 29, 2003
Here's how it is:
No Good Deed Goes Unpunished.
Don't Do the Crime If You Can't Do the Time.
Being "nice" or "good" requires a mature acceptance of the fact that most of the time you will be screwed over (and "spat upon, and shat upon"). It also requires a commitment to doing what you believe regardless of this fact. Rewards are small and seldom, and the greatest of these are the few kindred friends you meet and keep along the way.
Expecting to be a good person AND be rewarded for it is childish and unrealistic. I haven't seen the film 100 Women (which the 'blog author recommends as proving his point), but to me it's more about The Seven Samurai: You just don't get to be one of the villagers.
posted by Shane at 9:28 AM on July 29, 2003
No Good Deed Goes Unpunished.
Don't Do the Crime If You Can't Do the Time.
Being "nice" or "good" requires a mature acceptance of the fact that most of the time you will be screwed over (and "spat upon, and shat upon"). It also requires a commitment to doing what you believe regardless of this fact. Rewards are small and seldom, and the greatest of these are the few kindred friends you meet and keep along the way.
Expecting to be a good person AND be rewarded for it is childish and unrealistic. I haven't seen the film 100 Women (which the 'blog author recommends as proving his point), but to me it's more about The Seven Samurai: You just don't get to be one of the villagers.
posted by Shane at 9:28 AM on July 29, 2003
Truly nice guys don't always finish last, the issue is nobody seems to notice or care. Oh, they might in a meritocracy, but life seldom resembles one.
And I'm not bitter about love, I'm bitter about my (so-called) career.
posted by tommasz at 9:30 AM on July 29, 2003
And I'm not bitter about love, I'm bitter about my (so-called) career.
posted by tommasz at 9:30 AM on July 29, 2003
Probably a much better written, (slightly) more insightful site is Chicks Suck. He even has a nice little photo section.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:30 AM on July 29, 2003
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:30 AM on July 29, 2003
Being "nice" or "good" requires a mature acceptance of the fact that most of the time you will be screwed over (and "spat upon, and shat upon").
Oh for heaven's sake. "Bad things happen to me, and I'm such a nice guy, ergo bad things happen to nice guys." Absolute rubbish. Bad things happen to everyone, but they happen more to people who let them happen. There are other personality traits that are more of a factor in this than being "nice". Like setting yourself up to be screwed over because it's so much easier than succeeding, and allows you to protect your self image.
posted by George_Spiggott at 9:34 AM on July 29, 2003
Oh for heaven's sake. "Bad things happen to me, and I'm such a nice guy, ergo bad things happen to nice guys." Absolute rubbish. Bad things happen to everyone, but they happen more to people who let them happen. There are other personality traits that are more of a factor in this than being "nice". Like setting yourself up to be screwed over because it's so much easier than succeeding, and allows you to protect your self image.
posted by George_Spiggott at 9:34 AM on July 29, 2003
Truly nice guys don't care whether they finish last.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:38 AM on July 29, 2003
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 9:38 AM on July 29, 2003
One of the problematic things about niceness is that people equate it with "being a doormat", as Shane does. It doesn't have to be that way. Being nice is perfectly compatible with having self-respect and setting up some guidelines on what you expect in the way of treatment from the people in your life. It's also compatible with winning - you can give your all while playing fair and blow the whistle on those who don't, or leave the game.
Sure, there are people who can't help themselves and who always have a sob story and will suck you dry if you let them. There are people who will stab you in the back. But there's a real limit to how much people can damage you if don't let them. Just be very clear about what you will and won't do and accept, and if people don't respect that be prepared to pack up your toys and go home.
posted by orange swan at 9:39 AM on July 29, 2003
Sure, there are people who can't help themselves and who always have a sob story and will suck you dry if you let them. There are people who will stab you in the back. But there's a real limit to how much people can damage you if don't let them. Just be very clear about what you will and won't do and accept, and if people don't respect that be prepared to pack up your toys and go home.
posted by orange swan at 9:39 AM on July 29, 2003
Please let's not continue on this particular double standard...
It's not that at all. It's just schadenfreude. I know it can't happen to me because I told my girlfriend that if she was unfaithful, I'd kill us both.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:42 AM on July 29, 2003
It's not that at all. It's just schadenfreude. I know it can't happen to me because I told my girlfriend that if she was unfaithful, I'd kill us both.
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:42 AM on July 29, 2003
"Bad things happen to me, and I'm such a nice guy, ergo bad things happen to nice guys."
Fuck off. That's not what I was saying. (See? I'm not so nice.)
Truly nice guys don't care whether they finish last.
That's more like it.
posted by Shane at 9:42 AM on July 29, 2003
Fuck off. That's not what I was saying. (See? I'm not so nice.)
Truly nice guys don't care whether they finish last.
That's more like it.
posted by Shane at 9:42 AM on July 29, 2003
So, what is a nice guy exactly? My fiance is bad-ass, but I'm pretty sure he's a nice guy. (Holds doors open for everyone, not just women, gets along famously with my parents, wouldn't even occur to him to cheat, etc.) So what's the cut off? Can be sarcastic but must not cheat? Can forget a date, but must pick you up from the airport? Generally wishes well on you and others? 'Cause then all the guys I know are nice.
And just for the record, I'm in the famous "wedding season" where it seems like every week another friend is getting married, and every single one of the grooms has been a nice guy in my opinion.
posted by synapse at 9:43 AM on July 29, 2003
And just for the record, I'm in the famous "wedding season" where it seems like every week another friend is getting married, and every single one of the grooms has been a nice guy in my opinion.
posted by synapse at 9:43 AM on July 29, 2003
One of the problematic things about niceness is that people equate it with "being a doormat", as Shane does.
Oh for Fuck's sake that is not what I goddamned said! That is what the blog author is implying. Doormat or not (I'm definitely not), you will suffer for your convictions somewhat in this life. Imagine a large manufacturing company with labor ethics trying to be competitive in the marketplace.
Fukkinay. That is all.
posted by Shane at 9:46 AM on July 29, 2003
Oh for Fuck's sake that is not what I goddamned said! That is what the blog author is implying. Doormat or not (I'm definitely not), you will suffer for your convictions somewhat in this life. Imagine a large manufacturing company with labor ethics trying to be competitive in the marketplace.
Fukkinay. That is all.
posted by Shane at 9:46 AM on July 29, 2003
Nice guys finish last...during sex.
As others have stated, these self-proclaimed "nice guys" very rarely are. Especially if they snoop in their girlfriend's computer.
And yes, you can be nice and also be self-protecting. It takes dating a few assholes (of either gender) to develop the creep-radar, but eventually most of us do figure out how to spot one before they get a chance to get into our lives.
posted by echolalia67 at 10:00 AM on July 29, 2003
As others have stated, these self-proclaimed "nice guys" very rarely are. Especially if they snoop in their girlfriend's computer.
And yes, you can be nice and also be self-protecting. It takes dating a few assholes (of either gender) to develop the creep-radar, but eventually most of us do figure out how to spot one before they get a chance to get into our lives.
posted by echolalia67 at 10:00 AM on July 29, 2003
Wait, so there's people out there who AREN'T making the effort to be nice?
posted by divrsional at 10:07 AM on July 29, 2003
posted by divrsional at 10:07 AM on July 29, 2003
The answer is letting go.
If it bothers you that you're finishing last, and you don't want to change who you are to finish higher, then you have to stop caring about where you finish.
Easier said than done, of course, but very liberating.
posted by kindall at 10:08 AM on July 29, 2003
If it bothers you that you're finishing last, and you don't want to change who you are to finish higher, then you have to stop caring about where you finish.
Easier said than done, of course, but very liberating.
posted by kindall at 10:08 AM on July 29, 2003
Of course, another test of niceness is how often you spend time and effort being nice to people you have no intention of trying to sleep with.
posted by Space Coyote at 10:11 AM on July 29, 2003
posted by Space Coyote at 10:11 AM on July 29, 2003
Wait, so there's people out there who AREN'T making the effort to be nice?
Been told more than once by a guy too, imagine that. Forget it thom, be an asshat everyone else is; being the good guy leads to no-where.(don't agree) So yes, your statement stands, unfortunately. Honestly how hard is it being nice?[stands in corner and smiles].
Seems to take more work to be an asshat.
posted by thomcatspike at 10:29 AM on July 29, 2003
Been told more than once by a guy too, imagine that. Forget it thom, be an asshat everyone else is; being the good guy leads to no-where.(don't agree) So yes, your statement stands, unfortunately. Honestly how hard is it being nice?[stands in corner and smiles].
Seems to take more work to be an asshat.
posted by thomcatspike at 10:29 AM on July 29, 2003
Nice guys finish last...during sex.
Uh, depends on the kind of sex, echolalia67. But great epigrammatic amendment. I laughed. (Compulsive need to qualify. Must stop... sometime....)
Doormat or not (I'm definitely not), you will suffer for your convictions somewhat in this life.
Absolutely, Shane, but you said that:
Being "nice" or "good" requires a a mature acceptance of the fact that most of the time you will be screwed over. [Emphasis added.]
I make no claims to niceness (and if I did some MeFier would dig up some striking evidence of malice from among my 400+ comments in no time) but I know self-respecting nice people who take a lot less screws than I do. Occasionally, Shane. Not most of the time, which would be doormat-like, especially if you just accepted it.
It took me a long time to come to understand that being a fair person includes being fair to oneself as well as to the rest of the world, that enabling someone else's bad behaviour is really morally wrong even if you're the only one taking the blows (for the time being).
On preview: Space Coyote, I adore you. That last one of yours was flawless and I'm going to adopt it if you don't mind.
posted by orange swan at 10:34 AM on July 29, 2003
Uh, depends on the kind of sex, echolalia67. But great epigrammatic amendment. I laughed. (Compulsive need to qualify. Must stop... sometime....)
Doormat or not (I'm definitely not), you will suffer for your convictions somewhat in this life.
Absolutely, Shane, but you said that:
Being "nice" or "good" requires a a mature acceptance of the fact that most of the time you will be screwed over. [Emphasis added.]
I make no claims to niceness (and if I did some MeFier would dig up some striking evidence of malice from among my 400+ comments in no time) but I know self-respecting nice people who take a lot less screws than I do. Occasionally, Shane. Not most of the time, which would be doormat-like, especially if you just accepted it.
It took me a long time to come to understand that being a fair person includes being fair to oneself as well as to the rest of the world, that enabling someone else's bad behaviour is really morally wrong even if you're the only one taking the blows (for the time being).
On preview: Space Coyote, I adore you. That last one of yours was flawless and I'm going to adopt it if you don't mind.
posted by orange swan at 10:34 AM on July 29, 2003
Bejesus. Collectively give the guy a break. He just found out that his girlfriend of 3 years has been cheating with his best 'friend' for 2, which regardless of the hows and whys is pretty rough. He probably knocked up that site in tearful late night session with Mr Jack Daniels as his co pilot. He feels made a fool of,angry and in his current fragile emotional state can be forgiven for being a little incoherant. Give him a few months to calm down then pass judgement.
The moral of the story is: delete stuff properly/don't write down incriminating evidence/truth will out.
posted by Damienmce at 10:57 AM on July 29, 2003
The moral of the story is: delete stuff properly/don't write down incriminating evidence/truth will out.
posted by Damienmce at 10:57 AM on July 29, 2003
Absolutely, Shane, but you said that:
Eh, dramatic license. I'll have to watch that. Point is: You do what you do, you take your lumps when you have to. Maybe if you take too many lumps you're a doormat; But if you're not taking any lumps, chances are you're part of the human herd and you have no convictions to begin with.
But I'm generalizing, I'm not talking about lumps in relationships, so I may as well wander away...
posted by Shane at 11:10 AM on July 29, 2003
Eh, dramatic license. I'll have to watch that. Point is: You do what you do, you take your lumps when you have to. Maybe if you take too many lumps you're a doormat; But if you're not taking any lumps, chances are you're part of the human herd and you have no convictions to begin with.
But I'm generalizing, I'm not talking about lumps in relationships, so I may as well wander away...
posted by Shane at 11:10 AM on July 29, 2003
When I was younger I came to the opinion that women seemed to be more interested in me when I was selfish and just looking for fun. In more recent years I've realised that this was a mistake. I think women (=people who are potentially attracted to you) are attracted by confidence and autonomy and are turned-off by self-obsession and neuroticism. This means that sometimes a true, arrogant bastard can seem very attractive - but, usually, only for a short time.
posted by jamespake at 11:15 AM on July 29, 2003
posted by jamespake at 11:15 AM on July 29, 2003
It all comes down to reproductive strategies. A young woman is attracted to an independent, confident guy who looks out for number one. She eventually has his kid, goes through a lot of emotional trauma when he proves uninterested in being a parent and leaves. She then goes on to marry a nice, supportive caring guy with a good job. She has just executed a flawless strategy -- her child has the genes of a self-interested survivor and the nurture and upbringing of a good and decent citizen.
Note I'm just having some fun here -- don't flame me too hard.
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:24 AM on July 29, 2003
Note I'm just having some fun here -- don't flame me too hard.
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:24 AM on July 29, 2003
Collectively give the guy a break.
traumatic situation + foolish behavior in private = guy gets a break
traumatic situation + foolish behavior in public = guy gets mercilessly ridiculed
Or, for those of you less mathematically inclined, our buddy shouldn't publish his inane semi-literate rantings if he isn't willing to be judged by them. Blogging, like driving, should not be undertaken when your judgement is impaired.
Also, why waste time with this tepid self-indulgent schmo when Tucker Max attempts to prove the "shitty guys finish first" axiom ever so much more entertainingly?
posted by monkey.pie.baker at 11:27 AM on July 29, 2003
traumatic situation + foolish behavior in private = guy gets a break
traumatic situation + foolish behavior in public = guy gets mercilessly ridiculed
Or, for those of you less mathematically inclined, our buddy shouldn't publish his inane semi-literate rantings if he isn't willing to be judged by them. Blogging, like driving, should not be undertaken when your judgement is impaired.
Also, why waste time with this tepid self-indulgent schmo when Tucker Max attempts to prove the "shitty guys finish first" axiom ever so much more entertainingly?
posted by monkey.pie.baker at 11:27 AM on July 29, 2003
Nice guys are the ones that end up burying their ex-gf's bodies in the woods when they finally DO snap, which has to happen. Which is why smart girls like the guy that puts a live racoon in his girlfriend's car when she cheats on him. Yes, yes.
posted by bargle at 11:37 AM on July 29, 2003
posted by bargle at 11:37 AM on July 29, 2003
True nice guys don't apply that label to themselves.
posted by WolfDaddy at 11:42 AM on July 29, 2003
posted by WolfDaddy at 11:42 AM on July 29, 2003
Note I'm just having some fun here -- don't flame me too hard.
Actually, I recently saw a special on PBS about attraction, and there were some interesting observations the psychologists and naturalists made. They first had this setup where a woman looked at a picture of a man, and the face morphed from one that was traditionally "rugged" alpha-male (strong chin, angular features, closely-set eyes, etc.) to the more traditional "nice guy" look (rounder face, softer features, etc.). The women were then asked to stop the morphing when the guy looked like: A) Someone they'd like to sleep with/have a fling with, and B) Someone they'd like to have help raise their children. It was almost universal that women chose the alpha-male for reproduction, beta-male for nurturing.
So anyway, the show segued into an analysis of this particular species of bird where the kind of behavior you describe occurs all the time. The female bird attempts to get impregnated by a male bird that exhibits "good" characteristics for survival, then attempts to convince her mate (the "Nice Guy") that it's his offspring so he'll raise it. The part that made me smile was that if the male caregiver ever found out that the children were not his offspring, he would kill the children and abandon the female.
"Bitches, man. Bitches." - Say Anything
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 11:44 AM on July 29, 2003
Actually, I recently saw a special on PBS about attraction, and there were some interesting observations the psychologists and naturalists made. They first had this setup where a woman looked at a picture of a man, and the face morphed from one that was traditionally "rugged" alpha-male (strong chin, angular features, closely-set eyes, etc.) to the more traditional "nice guy" look (rounder face, softer features, etc.). The women were then asked to stop the morphing when the guy looked like: A) Someone they'd like to sleep with/have a fling with, and B) Someone they'd like to have help raise their children. It was almost universal that women chose the alpha-male for reproduction, beta-male for nurturing.
So anyway, the show segued into an analysis of this particular species of bird where the kind of behavior you describe occurs all the time. The female bird attempts to get impregnated by a male bird that exhibits "good" characteristics for survival, then attempts to convince her mate (the "Nice Guy") that it's his offspring so he'll raise it. The part that made me smile was that if the male caregiver ever found out that the children were not his offspring, he would kill the children and abandon the female.
"Bitches, man. Bitches." - Say Anything
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 11:44 AM on July 29, 2003
Women are attracted to more masculine-looking men at the most fertile time of their menstrual cycle, psychologists have shown
posted by jamespake at 11:57 AM on July 29, 2003
posted by jamespake at 11:57 AM on July 29, 2003
Of course, everybody's all 'wow, isn't that interesting?' about women being attracted to rugged alpha-male types for reproduction, but guys who like big boobies are still assholes.
;)
posted by Space Coyote at 12:00 PM on July 29, 2003
;)
posted by Space Coyote at 12:00 PM on July 29, 2003
Hmm.
Conventionally handsome men do nothing for me. A big indicator for attraction to me is how the guy smells, not in a soap and deodorant way, just his natural smell. Which is not to encourage anyone out there to stop bathing, mind you.
/derail
posted by echolalia67 at 12:31 PM on July 29, 2003
Conventionally handsome men do nothing for me. A big indicator for attraction to me is how the guy smells, not in a soap and deodorant way, just his natural smell. Which is not to encourage anyone out there to stop bathing, mind you.
/derail
posted by echolalia67 at 12:31 PM on July 29, 2003
but guys who like big boobies are still assholes
Well, for similar reasons, big boobies = more fertility = more likely to be able to feed my offspring. Add to this wide hips (though current advertising has done much to change this) for child-bearing-without-death.
So you go on liking your rugged men, and we'll go on liking our big jugs, thank you very much.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:44 PM on July 29, 2003
Well, for similar reasons, big boobies = more fertility = more likely to be able to feed my offspring. Add to this wide hips (though current advertising has done much to change this) for child-bearing-without-death.
So you go on liking your rugged men, and we'll go on liking our big jugs, thank you very much.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 12:44 PM on July 29, 2003
Of course, everybody's all 'wow, isn't that interesting?' about women being attracted to rugged alpha-male types for reproduction, but guys who like big boobies are still assholes.
;)
Space Coyote, on a roll!!
posted by SpaceCadet at 12:51 PM on July 29, 2003
;)
Space Coyote, on a roll!!
posted by SpaceCadet at 12:51 PM on July 29, 2003
To be nice these days is counter-cultural. Swim upstream you nice people while the bad guys float downstream in their raft, full of beer and women.
posted by SpaceCadet at 1:00 PM on July 29, 2003
posted by SpaceCadet at 1:00 PM on July 29, 2003
I've been looking all my life for a nice guy. They are always too busy chasing the witches. Nice guys don't want nice girls. You have to have a nice guy go through hell with a witch before they want to be with a nice girl. I found my nice guy. He was with a witch before me...we are getting married in a month. There is hope out there!
posted by Sonserae at 1:03 PM on July 29, 2003
posted by Sonserae at 1:03 PM on July 29, 2003
his natural smell
A recent study: said woman are relaxed by a man's BO, yet not by a woman's. Wonder how much BO though...
posted by thomcatspike at 1:12 PM on July 29, 2003
A recent study: said woman are relaxed by a man's BO, yet not by a woman's. Wonder how much BO though...
posted by thomcatspike at 1:12 PM on July 29, 2003
...while the bad guys float downstream in their raft, full of beer and women.
Aha! It's true, then: These bad guys eat their women when they're done with them.
posted by Shane at 1:14 PM on July 29, 2003
Aha! It's true, then: These bad guys eat their women when they're done with them.
posted by Shane at 1:14 PM on July 29, 2003
You realize of course that the big-boobie thing is cultural and there are men who live in cultures where women's tits are nothing to them (they're for feeding babies, after all, not sex), but it's women's thighs that send them reeling with thoughts of passionate fucking.
And they laugh when shown pictures of Western women in bikinis - hiding the breasts (why?) while showing the outrageous thighs in full view.
And on preview, thomcatspike: not very much. More than a bit is extremely offputting.
posted by beth at 1:15 PM on July 29, 2003
And they laugh when shown pictures of Western women in bikinis - hiding the breasts (why?) while showing the outrageous thighs in full view.
And on preview, thomcatspike: not very much. More than a bit is extremely offputting.
posted by beth at 1:15 PM on July 29, 2003
One time a bitter, angry, negative guy at work asked me, "Why can't I find a nice girl?" My answer was, "Because nice girls don't want a bitter, angry, negative guy". I have found that so many people have double standards. They can be allowed to offer nothing while the person they are looking for must offer them the world. If you want quality, you must become quality first. You attract what you project. Become what you want for yourself and everything falls into place. You become content and happy with yourself and in turn, someone content and happy is attracted to you.
posted by Sonserae at 1:18 PM on July 29, 2003
posted by Sonserae at 1:18 PM on July 29, 2003
bad guys eat their women when they're done with them.
Whereas nice guys eat their women first...
posted by inpHilltr8r at 1:29 PM on July 29, 2003
Whereas nice guys eat their women first...
posted by inpHilltr8r at 1:29 PM on July 29, 2003
You know what the first thing I notice about a woman is? Her hair. I won't date a girl with hair shorter than mine, which is beginning to become a problem. Also if there seems to be a lot of hair care products in it, you don't want that...
It totally ruins the flavor when you cut off a lock to carry around and chew on when you are away from her.
Also, I usually don't compliment women on their eyes. After all, people that say they are attracted to you because of your eyes are really sizing up your eye sockets for after they kill you.
If you really want to impress the womenfolk, you hold the door for them but then shut it in their face right as they are about to go through. Let them open it and then say "I wanted to show my willingness to hold the door for you, but also that I respect your ability to open the door for yourself." Then slap her on the ass.
posted by bargle at 1:36 PM on July 29, 2003
It totally ruins the flavor when you cut off a lock to carry around and chew on when you are away from her.
Also, I usually don't compliment women on their eyes. After all, people that say they are attracted to you because of your eyes are really sizing up your eye sockets for after they kill you.
If you really want to impress the womenfolk, you hold the door for them but then shut it in their face right as they are about to go through. Let them open it and then say "I wanted to show my willingness to hold the door for you, but also that I respect your ability to open the door for yourself." Then slap her on the ass.
posted by bargle at 1:36 PM on July 29, 2003
True nice guys don't apply that label to themselves.
Amen. I feel bad for this guy, but this doesn't sound like a case of "nice guys finish last", it sounds like "petulant self-obsessed whiner is cheated on and then tries to justify it ex post facto by calling himself a nice guy." Saying you're a nice guy doesn't make it so. Nice guys don't snoop on their girlfriends' computers, especially not to dig up stuff that was deleted.
Let's not confuse nice guys with doormats. Doormats will say what they think a woman wants to hear, and do anything for her, and really sort of sublimate their personality, which is why it's no wonder women don't find them attractive-- who wants to be in a relationship with a nonentity?
I'd like to think the reason 'assholes' get more women, while 'nice guys' don't, is more out of projecting confidence and a strong sense of individuality (w/o being neurotically self-obsessed) than anything. Not out of actually mistreating women.
Of course, I see some of the guys I know and wonder if that's actually the case, and wonder why the women are still attracted to a guy they know is going to mistreat them and be an asshole, and yet they are anyway. Think they would've learned about these particular guys by now, but then again, we're all still young. Plus, there's probably something else they're attracted to-- the guys I'm thinking of, for all their problems, really do know something about how to talk to women, not to mention whatever goes on that I, or the public in general, don't actually see.
Excellent points made in this thread so far-- I would go on, but I think I'd just be repeating a lot of what's been said, if I haven't already.
posted by nath at 2:14 PM on July 29, 2003
Amen. I feel bad for this guy, but this doesn't sound like a case of "nice guys finish last", it sounds like "petulant self-obsessed whiner is cheated on and then tries to justify it ex post facto by calling himself a nice guy." Saying you're a nice guy doesn't make it so. Nice guys don't snoop on their girlfriends' computers, especially not to dig up stuff that was deleted.
Let's not confuse nice guys with doormats. Doormats will say what they think a woman wants to hear, and do anything for her, and really sort of sublimate their personality, which is why it's no wonder women don't find them attractive-- who wants to be in a relationship with a nonentity?
I'd like to think the reason 'assholes' get more women, while 'nice guys' don't, is more out of projecting confidence and a strong sense of individuality (w/o being neurotically self-obsessed) than anything. Not out of actually mistreating women.
Of course, I see some of the guys I know and wonder if that's actually the case, and wonder why the women are still attracted to a guy they know is going to mistreat them and be an asshole, and yet they are anyway. Think they would've learned about these particular guys by now, but then again, we're all still young. Plus, there's probably something else they're attracted to-- the guys I'm thinking of, for all their problems, really do know something about how to talk to women, not to mention whatever goes on that I, or the public in general, don't actually see.
Excellent points made in this thread so far-- I would go on, but I think I'd just be repeating a lot of what's been said, if I haven't already.
posted by nath at 2:14 PM on July 29, 2003
thomcatspike:Wonder how much BO though...
For me it's how a guy's scalp smells or how his shirt smells after wearing it all day, but not doing a lot of physical labor. It's more the smell from the body's natural oils than the smell of underarm sweat.
The sexiest smelling guy I've ever been with smelled like pistachio nut and basil...mmmm. I once fell hard for a not particularly attractive guy once I got a whiff of him. He went from homely to unbelievably hot in a matter of minutes.
The unsexiest smell for me are people who smell like stale salami. One of my former roommates smelled like that and he wasn't a particularly big meat or garlic eater - he always smelled that way, even fresh out of the shower.
Also, what Sonserae said both times. The inclination to date assholes/bitches knows no gender boundaries and being a nice guy doesn't mean " I pay my taxes, show up to work on time, never been arrested, trim my lawn regularly" etc. That seems to be the criteria these so-called "nice guys" judge themselves by.
posted by echolalia67 at 2:14 PM on July 29, 2003
For me it's how a guy's scalp smells or how his shirt smells after wearing it all day, but not doing a lot of physical labor. It's more the smell from the body's natural oils than the smell of underarm sweat.
The sexiest smelling guy I've ever been with smelled like pistachio nut and basil...mmmm. I once fell hard for a not particularly attractive guy once I got a whiff of him. He went from homely to unbelievably hot in a matter of minutes.
The unsexiest smell for me are people who smell like stale salami. One of my former roommates smelled like that and he wasn't a particularly big meat or garlic eater - he always smelled that way, even fresh out of the shower.
Also, what Sonserae said both times. The inclination to date assholes/bitches knows no gender boundaries and being a nice guy doesn't mean " I pay my taxes, show up to work on time, never been arrested, trim my lawn regularly" etc. That seems to be the criteria these so-called "nice guys" judge themselves by.
posted by echolalia67 at 2:14 PM on July 29, 2003
I really do believe in karma, different, but I don't think it works out like math sums -- I don't think you necessarily get good things back from people you are good to. But I think it comes back in other ways.
I agree completely. BUT -- and this is a big but - that doesn't mean that one has to put up with being treated like crap, by anyone. No-one needs to be a doormat. I gave up the behaviour because it made me feel worthless, it made me feel bad about myself.
*sobs*
No, seriously, it's not just about being nice to other people, you need to be good to yourself, too. I don't see how letting others take you for granted helps your karma.
posted by different at 2:30 PM on July 29, 2003
I agree completely. BUT -- and this is a big but - that doesn't mean that one has to put up with being treated like crap, by anyone. No-one needs to be a doormat. I gave up the behaviour because it made me feel worthless, it made me feel bad about myself.
*sobs*
No, seriously, it's not just about being nice to other people, you need to be good to yourself, too. I don't see how letting others take you for granted helps your karma.
posted by different at 2:30 PM on July 29, 2003
Do nice girls finish last? If not, why not? How about some gender equality here!!
posted by SpaceCadet at 2:30 PM on July 29, 2003
posted by SpaceCadet at 2:30 PM on July 29, 2003
I have found that so many people have double standards. They can be allowed to offer nothing while the person they are looking for must offer them the world. If you want quality, you must become quality first. You attract what you project. Become what you want for yourself and everything falls into place.
Easily the best comment made all thread.
I knew a guy who would always lamnent his miserable fate: "Oh, it's so hard being a nice guy. I can't get any beautiful women to look at me." Pure dreck. He only cared about "beautiful" women. What about all the nice-but-not-drop-dead-gorgeous-girls out there? "Eh, I'm just not interested in them," he would respond. He was only ever interested in women who could have been models. This guy, who weighed in at over 200 lbs, who never exercised, never took care of his looks, who had a terrible attitude to boot -- the poster child for double-standards. And yet there were some nice girls who were interested in him, which I thought was far too generous for what he deserved. Yet he turned them down and complained all day about his miserable lot in life.
(Healthy) women and men pretty much want the same things in their mate: personal integrity, a good sense of humor, a modicum of ambition, loyalty, fidelity, and oh yeah, good looks. Guys who complain, (whether outloud or internally beat themselves up) would do themselves a huge favor by not caring anymore about the opinions of the rest of the world and being happy simply because they are living true to their own standards. Once this happens (you can't fake this kind of thing, you just have to work at it), you will notice your "luck" changing for the better. In a way, it's like this one dialogue in Swingers:
Rob: See, Mike, the only difference between giving up and not giving up is if you take her back when she wants to come back. But you can't do anything to make her want to come back. In fact, you can only do stuff to make her not want to come back.
Mike: So the only difference is if I forget about her or just pretend to forget about her?
Rob: Right.
Mike: Well that sucks.
Rob: Yeah, it sucks.
Mike: So it's just like a retroactive decision, then? I mean I could, like, forget about her and then when she comes back make like I just pretended to forget about her?
Rob: Right. Although probably more likely the opposite.
Mike: What do you mean?
Rob: I mean at first you're going to pretend to forget about her, you'll not call her, I don't know, whatever... but then eventually, you really will forget about her.
Mike: Well what if she comes back first?
Rob: Mmmm... see, that's the thing, is somehow they know not to come back until you really forget.
Mike: There's the rub.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 2:43 PM on July 29, 2003
Easily the best comment made all thread.
I knew a guy who would always lamnent his miserable fate: "Oh, it's so hard being a nice guy. I can't get any beautiful women to look at me." Pure dreck. He only cared about "beautiful" women. What about all the nice-but-not-drop-dead-gorgeous-girls out there? "Eh, I'm just not interested in them," he would respond. He was only ever interested in women who could have been models. This guy, who weighed in at over 200 lbs, who never exercised, never took care of his looks, who had a terrible attitude to boot -- the poster child for double-standards. And yet there were some nice girls who were interested in him, which I thought was far too generous for what he deserved. Yet he turned them down and complained all day about his miserable lot in life.
(Healthy) women and men pretty much want the same things in their mate: personal integrity, a good sense of humor, a modicum of ambition, loyalty, fidelity, and oh yeah, good looks. Guys who complain, (whether outloud or internally beat themselves up) would do themselves a huge favor by not caring anymore about the opinions of the rest of the world and being happy simply because they are living true to their own standards. Once this happens (you can't fake this kind of thing, you just have to work at it), you will notice your "luck" changing for the better. In a way, it's like this one dialogue in Swingers:
Rob: See, Mike, the only difference between giving up and not giving up is if you take her back when she wants to come back. But you can't do anything to make her want to come back. In fact, you can only do stuff to make her not want to come back.
Mike: So the only difference is if I forget about her or just pretend to forget about her?
Rob: Right.
Mike: Well that sucks.
Rob: Yeah, it sucks.
Mike: So it's just like a retroactive decision, then? I mean I could, like, forget about her and then when she comes back make like I just pretended to forget about her?
Rob: Right. Although probably more likely the opposite.
Mike: What do you mean?
Rob: I mean at first you're going to pretend to forget about her, you'll not call her, I don't know, whatever... but then eventually, you really will forget about her.
Mike: Well what if she comes back first?
Rob: Mmmm... see, that's the thing, is somehow they know not to come back until you really forget.
Mike: There's the rub.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 2:43 PM on July 29, 2003
My prediction is that if you ask this guy about this blog in a year, he'll turn red with embarassment and change the subject. He's angry, he just got fucked, we've all been there and many of us have acted like an ass in some fashion afterwards. Well, I have anyway.
On a completely different note, not all guys dig big boobs. Some of us mean it when we say 'no, they're the perfect size'. Really.
Chicks who do the "I'm pregnant" thing for effect need to grow the hell up, and go to charm school or something. The only thing that's worse is "I need $1000 for an abortion", when really the girl just wants $1000 and a breakup.
As for nice guys... maybe they have trouble, maybe they don't... but I do know that 95% of the dudes who say nice guys don't get any lovin just need to suck it up and grow a set. Seriously. Of course maybe I only think that because I'm an asshole.
posted by mosch at 3:03 PM on July 29, 2003
On a completely different note, not all guys dig big boobs. Some of us mean it when we say 'no, they're the perfect size'. Really.
Chicks who do the "I'm pregnant" thing for effect need to grow the hell up, and go to charm school or something. The only thing that's worse is "I need $1000 for an abortion", when really the girl just wants $1000 and a breakup.
As for nice guys... maybe they have trouble, maybe they don't... but I do know that 95% of the dudes who say nice guys don't get any lovin just need to suck it up and grow a set. Seriously. Of course maybe I only think that because I'm an asshole.
posted by mosch at 3:03 PM on July 29, 2003
No one does anything you don't allow.
We can sit there and blame other people for "being so mean to us" when actually it's our fault for allowing it for more than 5 minutes. If you are a victim, you have no power in your life. You are always a victim of circumstance. If you finally take responsibility...then YOU have the power to change things. Not allowing certain abusive people in our lives is our responsibility and no one else's. To blame another person for allowing them to abuse you is passing the blame onto them rather than taking the blame yourself. The most healthy thing is self-respect. When you respect yourself, you attract people who also respect you.
posted by Sonserae at 3:17 PM on July 29, 2003
We can sit there and blame other people for "being so mean to us" when actually it's our fault for allowing it for more than 5 minutes. If you are a victim, you have no power in your life. You are always a victim of circumstance. If you finally take responsibility...then YOU have the power to change things. Not allowing certain abusive people in our lives is our responsibility and no one else's. To blame another person for allowing them to abuse you is passing the blame onto them rather than taking the blame yourself. The most healthy thing is self-respect. When you respect yourself, you attract people who also respect you.
posted by Sonserae at 3:17 PM on July 29, 2003
Sonserae:
I've been looking all my life for a nice guy. They are always too busy chasing the witches. Nice guys don't want nice girls. You have to have a nice guy go through hell with a witch before they want to be with a nice girl. I found my nice guy. He was with a witch before me...we are getting married in a month. There is hope out there!
Very perceptive - I've been there. I don't think that's how it seems when you're actually in the situation - it's more to do with exploring possibilities. Sometimes it takes a while to realise what's good for you.
posted by jamespake at 3:24 PM on July 29, 2003
I've been looking all my life for a nice guy. They are always too busy chasing the witches. Nice guys don't want nice girls. You have to have a nice guy go through hell with a witch before they want to be with a nice girl. I found my nice guy. He was with a witch before me...we are getting married in a month. There is hope out there!
Very perceptive - I've been there. I don't think that's how it seems when you're actually in the situation - it's more to do with exploring possibilities. Sometimes it takes a while to realise what's good for you.
posted by jamespake at 3:24 PM on July 29, 2003
Go Sonserae! You've had three of the best comments in this whole thread.
To blame another person for allowing them to abuse you is passing the blame onto them rather than taking the blame yourself. The most healthy thing is self-respect. When you respect yourself, you attract people who also respect you.
I'm repeating that, because it bears repeating.
posted by gd779 at 3:50 PM on July 29, 2003
To blame another person for allowing them to abuse you is passing the blame onto them rather than taking the blame yourself. The most healthy thing is self-respect. When you respect yourself, you attract people who also respect you.
I'm repeating that, because it bears repeating.
posted by gd779 at 3:50 PM on July 29, 2003
Wow...golly gee thanks.
Actually, I'm currently writing a book on the subject.
posted by Sonserae at 3:57 PM on July 29, 2003
Actually, I'm currently writing a book on the subject.
posted by Sonserae at 3:57 PM on July 29, 2003
Maybe we're not that far apart, different, and are just talking about separate things. I think you can be generally nice to most people without being a doormat. You know, smile at people, leave a good tip, make silly jokes in elevators if you feel like it, put your little happy vibe out there into the world. Even just avoiding the nastiness of breaking confidences or dishing on people is a good thing. I agree everyone should set up their own boundaries, but I also think some things could just be a given, and people would be happier.
Unless they're, like, naturally surly. Then things would really suck for them.
posted by onlyconnect at 4:07 PM on July 29, 2003
Unless they're, like, naturally surly. Then things would really suck for them.
posted by onlyconnect at 4:07 PM on July 29, 2003
SpaceCadet : ...but guys who like big boobies are still assholes.
Aherm...as the official representative of big breasted women everywhere I feel the need to qualify that statement.
Guys who like big boobies aren't assholes. Guys who openly leer, say charming things like "Baby, why don't you let me suck on those big titties of yours", and who keep staring at them like they expect them to suddenly start singing "Shut your fucking face, Unclefucka..." are assholes.
And for the record, I wish my boobs were capable of bursting into song - I'd be rich, rich, rich.
posted by echolalia67 at 4:09 PM on July 29, 2003
Aherm...as the official representative of big breasted women everywhere I feel the need to qualify that statement.
Guys who like big boobies aren't assholes. Guys who openly leer, say charming things like "Baby, why don't you let me suck on those big titties of yours", and who keep staring at them like they expect them to suddenly start singing "Shut your fucking face, Unclefucka..." are assholes.
And for the record, I wish my boobs were capable of bursting into song - I'd be rich, rich, rich.
posted by echolalia67 at 4:09 PM on July 29, 2003
re: niceness, what was it that donnie darko said?
Donnie Darko: Ling Ling finds a wallet on the ground filled with money. She takes the wallet to the address on the driver’s license but keeps the money inside the wallet. I-I’m sorry Mrs. Farmer. I don’t get this.
Kitty Farmer: Just place an X on the Life Line in the appropriate place.
Donnie Darko: No, I mean I know what to do, I just don’t get this. You can’t just lump things into two categories. Things aren’t that simple.
Kitty Farmer: The Life Line is divided that way.
Donnie Darko: Life isn’t that simple. I mean who cares if Ling Ling returns the wallet and keeps the money? It has nothing to do with either fear or love.
Kitty Farmer: Fear and love are the deepest of human emotions.
Donnie Darko: Okay. But you’re not listening to me. There are other things that need to be taken into account. Like the whole spectrum of human emotion. You can’t just lump everything into these two categories and then just deny everything else.
posted by poopy at 4:21 PM on July 29, 2003
Donnie Darko: Ling Ling finds a wallet on the ground filled with money. She takes the wallet to the address on the driver’s license but keeps the money inside the wallet.
Kitty Farmer: Just place an X on the Life Line in the appropriate place.
Donnie Darko: No, I mean I know what to do, I just don’t get this. You can’t just lump things into two categories. Things aren’t that simple.
Kitty Farmer: The Life Line is divided that way.
Donnie Darko: Life isn’t that simple. I mean who cares if Ling Ling returns the wallet and keeps the money? It has nothing to do with either fear or love.
Kitty Farmer: Fear and love are the deepest of human emotions.
Donnie Darko: Okay. But you’re not listening to me. There are other things that need to be taken into account. Like the whole spectrum of human emotion. You can’t just lump everything into these two categories and then just deny everything else.
posted by poopy at 4:21 PM on July 29, 2003
Bargle ...somehow that's my sentiments exactly. Bravo!
posted by oh posey at 4:49 PM on July 29, 2003
posted by oh posey at 4:49 PM on July 29, 2003
mosch:
On a completely different note, not all guys dig big boobs. Some of us mean it when we say 'no, they're the perfect size'. Really.
I've said it before - 34DD become 34 double long too soon. And I like girls that can outrun me (not tough with my current limp ;D).
posted by notsnot at 4:54 PM on July 29, 2003
On a completely different note, not all guys dig big boobs. Some of us mean it when we say 'no, they're the perfect size'. Really.
I've said it before - 34DD become 34 double long too soon. And I like girls that can outrun me (not tough with my current limp ;D).
posted by notsnot at 4:54 PM on July 29, 2003
Truly nice guys don't care whether they finish last.Word.
Which is fortunate, because it is absolutely true that nice guys (and girls, too) finish last.
Sorry to hear about your limp problem, notsnot ;-)
posted by dg at 6:08 PM on July 29, 2003
Which is fortunate, because it is absolutely true that nice guys (and girls, too) finish last.
Sorry to hear about your limp problem, notsnot ;-)
posted by dg at 6:08 PM on July 29, 2003
damn, "fist" instead of "first", multiple meanings of limp...I'm just diggin' myself holes today! Sprained-ankle style limp, not opposite-of-wolfdaddy-in-silk-boxers limp. ;)
posted by notsnot at 6:58 PM on July 29, 2003
posted by notsnot at 6:58 PM on July 29, 2003
I am out to prove once and for all that nice guys truly finish last and prove to myself that women are a lost cause in the realms of romance and love.
I'm going to save this and submit it to the next Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest. I think it's got a shot!
posted by SPrintF at 7:57 PM on July 29, 2003
I'm going to save this and submit it to the next Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest. I think it's got a shot!
posted by SPrintF at 7:57 PM on July 29, 2003
I agree everyone should set up their own boundaries, but I also think some things could just be a given, and people would be happier.
Agreed. Unfortunately (and as we both know), it doesn't work like that. The sad thing is that there are some people out there who think the world should revolve around them. I can't change them, so I've just changed myself.
Anyway, I only brought this up to point out that my own experiment of living as I wanted to live, being kind and generous to (almost) all just because I could, lowered my self-esteem considerably. Thus I would expect the same for nice guy Charles, even without his expectation of 'finishing last'. I'm not saying I'm right about everything, just throwing my own experiences into the discussion.
posted by different at 1:05 AM on July 30, 2003
Agreed. Unfortunately (and as we both know), it doesn't work like that. The sad thing is that there are some people out there who think the world should revolve around them. I can't change them, so I've just changed myself.
Anyway, I only brought this up to point out that my own experiment of living as I wanted to live, being kind and generous to (almost) all just because I could, lowered my self-esteem considerably. Thus I would expect the same for nice guy Charles, even without his expectation of 'finishing last'. I'm not saying I'm right about everything, just throwing my own experiences into the discussion.
posted by different at 1:05 AM on July 30, 2003
Many behaviors commonly defined and lauded as "nice" are not particularly assertive, aggressive or achievement-oriented. People who employ the strategy of "being nice" rely upon other people to notice their merits, whereas those who take more direct action—even less "approved" actions—will usually get more direct and immediate results. Even when those results are negative, the quick feedback allows one to regroup and re-engage right away, and so positive results will be achieved much more quickly than by the more passive strategy.
I think this is the biggest factor in the phenomenon, although there are others operating as well (many, perhaps most, women utilize extremely poor criteria in partner-selection, particularly when they are young...but then, it's not the "nice" peacocks who get selected, either).
posted by rushmc at 8:00 AM on July 30, 2003
I think this is the biggest factor in the phenomenon, although there are others operating as well (many, perhaps most, women utilize extremely poor criteria in partner-selection, particularly when they are young...but then, it's not the "nice" peacocks who get selected, either).
posted by rushmc at 8:00 AM on July 30, 2003
It totally ruins the flavor when you cut off a lock to carry around and chew on when you are away from her.
Bargle, you are out there ;)
posted by thomcatspike at 11:48 AM on July 30, 2003
Bargle, you are out there ;)
posted by thomcatspike at 11:48 AM on July 30, 2003
Not allowing certain abusive people in our lives is our responsibility and no one else's. To blame another person for allowing them to abuse you is passing the blame onto them rather than taking the blame yourself.
Sometimes abusive people hide their abusive natures until they get close to you and get a few good shots in. Are we supposed to be psychic and know this ahead of time?
So it's the faithful partner's fault when their mate cheats on them? Wtf?
I get so sick of this self-actualizey blame-the-victim mentality. Who on this earth can have 100% accuracy in choosing only people who will treat them well?
There's no blame to be levied on those that do the abusing with this type of attitude - so I guess it's all just hunky-dory, because the victim must have wanted and deserved such treatment.
posted by beth at 12:05 PM on July 30, 2003
Sometimes abusive people hide their abusive natures until they get close to you and get a few good shots in. Are we supposed to be psychic and know this ahead of time?
So it's the faithful partner's fault when their mate cheats on them? Wtf?
I get so sick of this self-actualizey blame-the-victim mentality. Who on this earth can have 100% accuracy in choosing only people who will treat them well?
There's no blame to be levied on those that do the abusing with this type of attitude - so I guess it's all just hunky-dory, because the victim must have wanted and deserved such treatment.
posted by beth at 12:05 PM on July 30, 2003
Taking responsibility for one's own choices and actions does not preclude acknowledging the responsibility of others, beth (though I will concede that some people talk as though it did). Taking on too much responsibility for anything—like taking too much credit—is egotism run amok, but it seems to me a rarer, and a smaller, problem than its opposite: knee-jerk transference of all blame to other parties. Denial ain't pretty.
posted by rushmc at 4:56 PM on July 30, 2003
posted by rushmc at 4:56 PM on July 30, 2003
Re: Beth's and rushmc's comments - the ideal locus of control is somewhere in the middle. We can't control everything, we can't see everything coming. And also let's distingush blame from responsibility - if I don't lock my house and then get robbed blind, it's not my fault I got robbed. I have been irresponsible and thereby contributed to a negative event. The robber is the one at fault for doing something morally wrong.
I think this is where people with victim mindsets often run into trouble. If you try to tell them they need to counteract the effects of a wrong doer by doing certain things, they flip out because they think they are being blamed. Oh no, it's the other person's fault! It's totally up to them to rectify things and to prevent it from happening again!
posted by orange swan at 7:58 AM on July 31, 2003
I think this is where people with victim mindsets often run into trouble. If you try to tell them they need to counteract the effects of a wrong doer by doing certain things, they flip out because they think they are being blamed. Oh no, it's the other person's fault! It's totally up to them to rectify things and to prevent it from happening again!
posted by orange swan at 7:58 AM on July 31, 2003
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posted by vraxoin at 8:18 AM on July 29, 2003