Jeb Bush Should be Ashamed
August 27, 2003 7:53 AM Subscribe
What Jeb Bush is up to these days. A followup to a dreadful situation in the state of Florida.
Is anyone surprised that the guv'nor should be trying to rescue his frankly failed governorship on the back of the very weakest constituent in his state?
posted by clevershark at 7:57 AM on August 27, 2003
posted by clevershark at 7:57 AM on August 27, 2003
Surprised he's not arguing for "father's rights" for the rapist at the same time... What a legacy the Bush family is leaving.
posted by bk at 8:06 AM on August 27, 2003
posted by bk at 8:06 AM on August 27, 2003
I can't wait until Jeb becomes President, Neil gets moved up to governor of some redneck state, and they pull another "mystery Bush" out of the basement to get in the gubernatorial on-deck circle.
Am I the only one whose retrospective relative opinion of Bush I has been greatly improved over the course of his son's Presidency?
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 8:09 AM on August 27, 2003
Am I the only one whose retrospective relative opinion of Bush I has been greatly improved over the course of his son's Presidency?
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 8:09 AM on August 27, 2003
Well that's not a controversial link at all.
Despite being an anti-Life activist myself, I can see where Bush is coming from on this one. He's been mandated to reinforce pro-Life issues, and he's done this by making a legal case from an extreme situation. If he can prove the illegality of an abortion in this case, then he's on the road to proving it in all cases. It seems like an intelligent approach.
I say good on him. He's obviously doing the job he (a) believes in and (b) is being paid to do. I think there's no reason to attack the man over anything in this story except his well-known policy on Abortion.
posted by seanyboy at 8:15 AM on August 27, 2003
Despite being an anti-Life activist myself, I can see where Bush is coming from on this one. He's been mandated to reinforce pro-Life issues, and he's done this by making a legal case from an extreme situation. If he can prove the illegality of an abortion in this case, then he's on the road to proving it in all cases. It seems like an intelligent approach.
I say good on him. He's obviously doing the job he (a) believes in and (b) is being paid to do. I think there's no reason to attack the man over anything in this story except his well-known policy on Abortion.
posted by seanyboy at 8:15 AM on August 27, 2003
"Despite being an anti-Life activist myself"
Um, it's usually called "pro-choice", except by people who are "anti-choice."
posted by Outlawyr at 8:20 AM on August 27, 2003
Um, it's usually called "pro-choice", except by people who are "anti-choice."
posted by Outlawyr at 8:20 AM on August 27, 2003
I can't wait until Jeb becomes President, Neil gets moved up to governor of some redneck state, and they pull another "mystery Bush" out of the basement to get in the gubernatorial on-deck circle.
Truly the Bush Leagues, huh?
posted by tittergrrl at 8:20 AM on August 27, 2003
Truly the Bush Leagues, huh?
posted by tittergrrl at 8:20 AM on August 27, 2003
Also from what I can tell the the girl in question is quite close to term, having an abortion at this late stage would be quite terrible.
posted by PenDevil at 8:24 AM on August 27, 2003
posted by PenDevil at 8:24 AM on August 27, 2003
From what I've read, it's unknown whether she is still pregnant or not?
posted by agregoli at 8:27 AM on August 27, 2003
posted by agregoli at 8:27 AM on August 27, 2003
I think there's no reason to attack the man over anything in this story
Right, because politicians should abuse their weakest constituents to move their political agendas along. That's the job they get paid to do.
(Take into account that she was raped while in the care of the state. I might be wrong on this, but I believe that state is Florida - and guess who runs things there.)
Also from what I can tell the the girl in question is quite close to term, having an abortion at this late stage would be quite terrible.
Anybody want to guess why she did not get an abortion earlier? Maybe the governor was trying to block it through (a)legal means? Like trying to push the bizarre idea of a guardian for the fetus?
posted by magullo at 8:28 AM on August 27, 2003
Right, because politicians should abuse their weakest constituents to move their political agendas along. That's the job they get paid to do.
(Take into account that she was raped while in the care of the state. I might be wrong on this, but I believe that state is Florida - and guess who runs things there.)
Also from what I can tell the the girl in question is quite close to term, having an abortion at this late stage would be quite terrible.
Anybody want to guess why she did not get an abortion earlier? Maybe the governor was trying to block it through (a)legal means? Like trying to push the bizarre idea of a guardian for the fetus?
posted by magullo at 8:28 AM on August 27, 2003
Ooops my bad, the article mentions that if she were pregnant then she would be close to term.
posted by PenDevil at 8:28 AM on August 27, 2003
posted by PenDevil at 8:28 AM on August 27, 2003
I personally would be eternally grateful to the person that fought for my right to wake up every morning in the loving arms of the state of Florida, knowing that I'm the product of my dad's unstoppable desire to rape my retarded mom.
Thanks, Governor... Hey, do you think your daughter could score me some prescription drugs to get rid of this desire of mine to slit my fucking wrists?
posted by bk at 8:34 AM on August 27, 2003
Thanks, Governor... Hey, do you think your daughter could score me some prescription drugs to get rid of this desire of mine to slit my fucking wrists?
posted by bk at 8:34 AM on August 27, 2003
Despite being an anti-Life activist
As a pro-Death layabout, I'd like to remind all anti-Life activists that no one has the right to tell my sister, a neutral-Choice pacifist, what to do with ... anyway, time for a nap.
posted by larry_darrell at 9:01 AM on August 27, 2003
As a pro-Death layabout, I'd like to remind all anti-Life activists that no one has the right to tell my sister, a neutral-Choice pacifist, what to do with ... anyway, time for a nap.
posted by larry_darrell at 9:01 AM on August 27, 2003
Um, it's usually called "pro-choice", except by people who are "anti-choice."
Unless they're making a rather vague and completely unrelated point about the power of language. My bad. I can assure you that I am not anti-choice.
politicians should abuse their weakest constituents to move their political agendas along.
The sarcastic 3/4's of me want to say - Welcome to the modern political system. All politicians do this.
The other part of me wants to re-iterate that maybe this isn't about abusing a weak constituent, but more about testing the law at the edges of the issue.
pro-Abortion people will always say... well, what if the mother was unable to look after the child, what if she was raped, what if the child was going to be disabled. This is a situation where two of these three things has happened. J Bush is trying to force a legal answer to these questions.
This IS an emotive issue, and maybe I should stay away. But from a purely philosophical perspective, I find it very interesting. In three years time, any child born to this girl will be concious than its mother and will be more useful to society than its mother. (or less of a drain). I can't think of any situation that would be better to help us explore and maybe understand the issues at stake here.
And before you all start calling metafilter-troll on my arse, I want to make one thing clear. A situation nearly like this has happened to people (who, although not close) are vaguely related to me. The decision was made, on two separate occasions, to abort the children. I agreed with those decisions.
posted by seanyboy at 2:37 PM on August 27, 2003
Unless they're making a rather vague and completely unrelated point about the power of language. My bad. I can assure you that I am not anti-choice.
politicians should abuse their weakest constituents to move their political agendas along.
The sarcastic 3/4's of me want to say - Welcome to the modern political system. All politicians do this.
The other part of me wants to re-iterate that maybe this isn't about abusing a weak constituent, but more about testing the law at the edges of the issue.
pro-Abortion people will always say... well, what if the mother was unable to look after the child, what if she was raped, what if the child was going to be disabled. This is a situation where two of these three things has happened. J Bush is trying to force a legal answer to these questions.
This IS an emotive issue, and maybe I should stay away. But from a purely philosophical perspective, I find it very interesting. In three years time, any child born to this girl will be concious than its mother and will be more useful to society than its mother. (or less of a drain). I can't think of any situation that would be better to help us explore and maybe understand the issues at stake here.
And before you all start calling metafilter-troll on my arse, I want to make one thing clear. A situation nearly like this has happened to people (who, although not close) are vaguely related to me. The decision was made, on two separate occasions, to abort the children. I agreed with those decisions.
posted by seanyboy at 2:37 PM on August 27, 2003
"pro-Abortion people"
Repeat after me.
Pro
Choice
Pro
Choice
It is the right to choose that people are fighting for. No one is particularly fond of abortions per se.
posted by Outlawyr at 2:55 PM on August 27, 2003
Repeat after me.
Pro
Choice
Pro
Choice
It is the right to choose that people are fighting for. No one is particularly fond of abortions per se.
posted by Outlawyr at 2:55 PM on August 27, 2003
It is the right to choose
It is the right to choose to have an abortion. abortion. And part of that right involves (in most cases) a knowledge of what is happening. The problem with the term "pro-choice" is that it just skirts around the issue. It's like standing outside a pro-choice clinic with a sign which reads something like "Leviticus. 11:10".
It makes an advertising jingle out of what is a deeply complex issue.
Here's a test for you. Go to Google. Type "pro choice", and search each of the front pages of the websites that come up for the phrase "adopt".
Parents should be allowed to abort, adopt or bring up their children, and they should be informed on the implications of any decision. This is the meaning of pro-choice, but from what I can see, this is not the policy of people who advocate "pro choice"
posted by seanyboy at 3:24 PM on August 27, 2003
It is the right to choose to have an abortion. abortion. And part of that right involves (in most cases) a knowledge of what is happening. The problem with the term "pro-choice" is that it just skirts around the issue. It's like standing outside a pro-choice clinic with a sign which reads something like "Leviticus. 11:10".
It makes an advertising jingle out of what is a deeply complex issue.
Here's a test for you. Go to Google. Type "pro choice", and search each of the front pages of the websites that come up for the phrase "adopt".
Parents should be allowed to abort, adopt or bring up their children, and they should be informed on the implications of any decision. This is the meaning of pro-choice, but from what I can see, this is not the policy of people who advocate "pro choice"
posted by seanyboy at 3:24 PM on August 27, 2003
seanyboy - besides the nastiness of abortion, you omit the immense havoc and gruesome bloodshed visited on society by unwanted children born into the world and subsequently abused, who later vent their rage on innocent strangers. This is not about Free Will but, rather, a close statistical correlation between childhood neglect and trauma, and adult violence.
Meanwhile, abortions were quite common before abortion was made legal. Pre Roe V. Wade abortions were more often than not coat hanger affairs either self- performed or carried out by quack doctors - and often resulted in injury and death to the women involved. The rich flew their pregnant daughters out of the country to be attended to by good doctors.
So if you want to invoke gore.......well, there's a gory past for you. And I'm sure there are still some pictures around to illustrate the point (though they might be in black and white, but modern technology could easily colorize them.)
posted by troutfishing at 1:43 AM on August 28, 2003
Meanwhile, abortions were quite common before abortion was made legal. Pre Roe V. Wade abortions were more often than not coat hanger affairs either self- performed or carried out by quack doctors - and often resulted in injury and death to the women involved. The rich flew their pregnant daughters out of the country to be attended to by good doctors.
So if you want to invoke gore.......well, there's a gory past for you. And I'm sure there are still some pictures around to illustrate the point (though they might be in black and white, but modern technology could easily colorize them.)
posted by troutfishing at 1:43 AM on August 28, 2003
seanyboy are your proposing that the pro-choice crowd sits and watches as the anti-choice crowd goes on a full-on offensive destined to take away existing rights?
He might be re-testing a point in the law that a judge has already ruled on, but he is still doing it on the back of arguably one of the weakest of his constituents.
posted by magullo at 7:19 AM on August 28, 2003
He might be re-testing a point in the law that a judge has already ruled on, but he is still doing it on the back of arguably one of the weakest of his constituents.
posted by magullo at 7:19 AM on August 28, 2003
seanyboy, you overlook the fact that adoption is not an alternative to abortion - it's an alternative to child raising. If a woman decides that the pregnancy must stop, then adoption is not suitable for her.
posted by Dipsomaniac at 1:43 PM on August 28, 2003
posted by Dipsomaniac at 1:43 PM on August 28, 2003
I'm not proposing that the pro-choice crowd sits and watches. My greatest frustration here is with the "Bush is stupid." crowd. I'm proposing that both Bush, the people behind Bush and the issues at stake are not under estimated.
>adoption is not an alternative to abortion.
In a lot of cases, adoption is not a reasonable alternative to abortion, but in a lot of cases it is an actual alternative. I don't know the actual numbers here, so that's a subjective view.
posted by seanyboy at 4:12 PM on August 28, 2003
>adoption is not an alternative to abortion.
In a lot of cases, adoption is not a reasonable alternative to abortion, but in a lot of cases it is an actual alternative. I don't know the actual numbers here, so that's a subjective view.
posted by seanyboy at 4:12 PM on August 28, 2003
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posted by Outlawyr at 7:57 AM on August 27, 2003