what's this about kazoos?

September 2, 2003 8:20 AM

A google search for kazaa litenow yields the following disclaimer (scroll to the bottom of the results page): In response to a complaint we received under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we have removed 9 result(s) from this page. If you wish, you may read the DMCA complaint for these removed results.
posted by totee (35 comments total)

well at least they let you see the complaint which lists all the removed links... all that full disclosure ends up being a crafty way of still offering up a comprehensive search.
posted by t r a c y at 8:35 AM on September 2, 2003

Which can be translated in "If you wish, you may find these removed results on this page. =)

Ok, so, I'm from France, I don't really care for american laws, but still the same search on Google France will yield the same notice : Suite à l'application de la loi américaine sur le copyright intitulée Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), nous avons éliminé 11 résultat(s) de cette page. Si vous le souhaitez, vous pouvez prendre connaissance de la réclamation DMCA ayant entraîné l'élimination de ces résultats.

This is just the beginning...
posted by XiBe at 8:38 AM on September 2, 2003

So, when do google move their servers out of merkia?
posted by twine42 at 8:48 AM on September 2, 2003

The international Googles would search the same data as google.com, and if that data is on Google servers in American territory, it's subject to American laws.

I'd volunteer to host a Google mirror in Canada, but I don't think all the hard drives in this country combined would be enough to hold their cache.
posted by DrJohnEvans at 8:48 AM on September 2, 2003

Isn't it kind of ironic that that Sharman networks (that makes Kazaa) is using the DMCA to shut down these sites, when in fact the DMCA was made entirely to fight programs such as theirs? It pretty much demonstrates they would behave exactly like the RIAA, where the positions switched.
posted by BigPicnic at 8:49 AM on September 2, 2003

Kazaa probably has a legitimate complaint (copyright infringement), but the notice highlights the major problem with DMCA- only a "good faith" allegation is required to compel action, and the burden is then on the "infringing" party to prove their innocence and undo the action.
posted by mkultra at 8:51 AM on September 2, 2003

Because I'm not a file sharing type, I may be missing something here: if you actually read the DMCA complaint, it seems to be from the owners of Kazaa, complaining that these links are illegal copies or hacked versions of Kazaa. How is this any different from stock software piracy?
posted by mdeatherage at 8:52 AM on September 2, 2003

How is this any different from stock software piracy?

Quite a few reasons. I liken Kazaa lite to the 30 second skip feature in TiVo, except that all the spyware and garbage bundled with Kazaa does real harm to your computer's performance.

Though I think I would pay for a clean Fasttrack client that worked as well as kazaa lite without the clunkiness, kazaa lite are still the good guys in this fight if any reasonable ethics standard is aplied (i.e., not that of current US IP law)
posted by Space Coyote at 8:58 AM on September 2, 2003

I'm surprised that Google wimped out because of a standard-issue C&D. This is a nasty slippery slope. Does their search engine now need to filter out links which may or may not be kiddie porn? Or material that offends the community sensibilities of Alabama?

I hope Lessig goes to pro-bono town all over these people.
posted by PrinceValium at 8:58 AM on September 2, 2003

These Kazaa guys are proving to be extremely slick individuals. I wish them Napster's luck. Only worse. Much much worse.

FYI: I do not use any P2P network
posted by magullo at 9:07 AM on September 2, 2003

The fasttrack people have a problem. K-lite rocks, and protects its users from the Riaa as well as the spyware and spam of the original Kazaa. If people stop using Kazaa, the fasttrack network isn't going away, unlike napster it's completely decentralized, the makers of KaZaA are (rightly) afraid that their product won't just be infringed, but actually stolen in that they will have created the network but they will nolonger have any way to profit from it. Serves the bastards right. Anyone who wants to start trading files and hates spyware, download K-lite. www.k-lite.tk.
posted by Grod at 9:19 AM on September 2, 2003

I think someone needs to notify the kettle that the pot is calling...
posted by spilon at 9:27 AM on September 2, 2003

I don't get it. I go to the first link from the FPP, and I get normal search results.
posted by MonkeyMeat at 9:47 AM on September 2, 2003

Seems Google changed their minds on this one! The page is back.
posted by zebra_monkey at 9:56 AM on September 2, 2003

well i still get the search page with omitted results... are you scrolling down to the bottom of the page to see the notification...?
posted by t r a c y at 10:13 AM on September 2, 2003

Isn't it kind of ironic that that Sharman networks (that makes Kazaa) is using the DMCA to shut down these sites, when in fact the DMCA was made entirely to fight programs such as theirs? It pretty much demonstrates they would behave exactly like the RIAA, where the positions switched.

Don't think about it too long or your head will be crushed by the tremendous weight of the irony.
posted by SweetJesus at 10:18 AM on September 2, 2003

Regardless, they are doing an exe hack on someone else's program. If they wanted to be real good guys, then maybe they should make their own program instead of just modifying another without permission?
posted by angry modem at 10:23 AM on September 2, 2003

Wait, kazaa lite protects users from the RIAA? How? Aren't you connecting to the same network and thereby opening yourself to the same scrutiny?
posted by CunningLinguist at 10:30 AM on September 2, 2003

google is between a rock and a hard place. regardless of how you feel about the dmca, it is the law of the land, and you can't blame people for abiding by it. if you don't like it, work to get the law repealed.
posted by crunchland at 10:32 AM on September 2, 2003

i happened upon that page over the weekend. the 'results' at the top of the page including the sponsored links are for ways to 'pay' to get kazaa lite.

i found a link to the real kazaa lite right away when i went through yahoo's search.

the best part of installing kazaa lite and reading the t&c's. it says the software is illegal and should only be used for testing purposes or some such.
posted by birdherder at 10:42 AM on September 2, 2003

Wait, kazaa lite protects users from the RIAA? How? Aren't you connecting to the same network and thereby opening yourself to the same scrutiny?

Kazaa lite includes a blacklist that will block various IPs known to be used by RIAA as they search for mp3 stockpiles. Of course, it's just as easy for RIAA to keep switching addresses (and they are/do), but that's how k-lite 'protects' users.
posted by mathis23 at 10:44 AM on September 2, 2003

in addition to the ip blacklist, k-lite also prevents other clients from seeing all the songs you are sharing, so they can't tell if you're sharing one song or 5000. Since they're not at the point of suing people who dare to share just one file yet, that's a good measure of protection. As well it erases your search history, just in case the FBI breaks in teh door.
posted by Space Coyote at 11:45 AM on September 2, 2003

I'm surprised that Google wimped out because of a standard-issue C&D.

Under the DMCA, you have to remove material in response to a notification from a copyright owner. That's the first step in the process. Only later can you get back the right to publish the material -- it's one of the draconian provisions of the law.
posted by rcade at 11:52 AM on September 2, 2003

Less worst that Google lets us know what's going on with the results. I have an ambiguous feeling about this, because in the first place I strongly think that search engines should be free (search engines, not directories), totally free, after all they just index pages, not build them, and in the other hand I like to keep the your freedom ends where mine begins dharmic agreement - and Google reaches lots of different countries and cultures. It's tough.
posted by nandop at 12:23 PM on September 2, 2003

Metafilter: Less worst
posted by Outlawyr at 12:29 PM on September 2, 2003

rcade, I believe that that's not completely accurate. The DMCA safe harbor provision says that if Google takes down content immediately at the request of an alleged copyright holder, then they avoid a bunch of liabilities under the DMCA. Google is allowed to wait for the complainant to make a better case, but if they do, then Google loses some protections they would have had.

It's a classic extortion scheme, really. Many of the DMCA complaints are probably completely groundless, but we won't ever find that out. The law punishes anyone who pauses to examine the merits of the case.
posted by hattifattener at 12:52 PM on September 2, 2003

Why isn't kazaa sending this complaint to the owner of those 9 domains? Google hasn't done anything...no copyrighted material (hacked up versions of kazaa) are on google's servers...only links to them. How can google be at fault for that?
posted by mfbridges at 1:31 PM on September 2, 2003

The DMCA is too far reaching. What does a third-party search engine have to do with any of this? Control the search engines and you control the net I guess. Its one thing to target the ISP and a whole other thing to target sites that link to it.

Further proof the DMCA just has to go and be replaced by more sensible legslation.
posted by skallas at 1:32 PM on September 2, 2003

Metafilter: More wurst
posted by rocketman at 2:36 PM on September 2, 2003

I agree that it doesn't make sense that Google would be in any trouble for offering links to these sites. Whether or not a company/website/whatever is doing something illegal, it isn't illegal to link to/talk about them. Makes as much sense to me as the the publishers of the Yellow Pages being in trouble for listing Enron in their phone books.
posted by katieinshoes at 4:57 PM on September 2, 2003

>Makes as much sense to me as the the publishers of the Yellow Pages being in trouble for listing Enron in their phone books.

Exactly, I was going to use that same analogy. There's too much abuse of power when it comes to controlling who can link to whom. I really hope this gets challenged sometime soon, it doesn't do anyone any good to remove links from a search engine.
posted by skallas at 5:54 PM on September 2, 2003

Perfect analogy (see the two comments above).
posted by nandop at 6:35 PM on September 2, 2003

There is another reason the makers of Kazaa are getting upset: Sharman Networks have just released Kazaa Plus which is similar to Kazaa Lite - they're calling something 'plus' because they're removing parts of the program?
posted by meech at 8:43 PM on September 2, 2003

Metafilter: brat wurst
posted by t r a c y at 5:36 AM on September 3, 2003

Metafilter: Weapons of Mass Wurst
posted by mecran01 at 8:12 AM on September 4, 2003