College Cost Crisis
September 18, 2003 9:25 AM Subscribe
College Cost Crisis (pdf alert) Tuition at universities continue to mount. This recent Congressional report chronicles this increase- but places the blame squarely on the Universities. Do you buy it?
Do you buy it?
No. Most universities are non-profit. Many are losing or getting reduced state subsidies due to the budget crunches all states are experiencing and must raise tuition as a result. Supply side economics at work. Let's just let the local charities take care of this problem. And then hold a bake sale for a new B2 bomber.
posted by nofundy at 9:31 AM on September 18, 2003
No. Most universities are non-profit. Many are losing or getting reduced state subsidies due to the budget crunches all states are experiencing and must raise tuition as a result. Supply side economics at work. Let's just let the local charities take care of this problem. And then hold a bake sale for a new B2 bomber.
posted by nofundy at 9:31 AM on September 18, 2003
My reading of the article is that it's meant as a justification for cutting federal education funding. There's a lot of "Americans think" and anecdotal evidence in the report, and precious little in the way of actual analysis of where universities are spending their money.
posted by Johnny Assay at 9:52 AM on September 18, 2003
posted by Johnny Assay at 9:52 AM on September 18, 2003
Probably one of the most partisan and biased "research" reports ever done..
AASCU Response, NYTImes Story, Chronicle.com Story [Sub required]. Released to provide justification to gut the Higher Education Act.
posted by Blake at 9:58 AM on September 18, 2003
AASCU Response, NYTImes Story, Chronicle.com Story [Sub required]. Released to provide justification to gut the Higher Education Act.
posted by Blake at 9:58 AM on September 18, 2003
I thought we had a solution to this problem yesterday...
On a separate note, my Wife just finished college this past May. We're she to still be in school this semester our costs would have increased by 30%. In addition, the scholarship my wife received last year had to cut the number of students it helps by 50% (they choose that instead of halfing the dollar amounts).
My wife didn't dance for money though.
posted by DragonBoy at 10:05 AM on September 18, 2003
On a separate note, my Wife just finished college this past May. We're she to still be in school this semester our costs would have increased by 30%. In addition, the scholarship my wife received last year had to cut the number of students it helps by 50% (they choose that instead of halfing the dollar amounts).
My wife didn't dance for money though.
posted by DragonBoy at 10:05 AM on September 18, 2003
Typical "conservative" pablum. "Give me everything I want, and don't you dare charge me what it really costs!"
And so our progress toward the 1850's continues...
posted by Cerebus at 10:06 AM on September 18, 2003
And so our progress toward the 1850's continues...
posted by Cerebus at 10:06 AM on September 18, 2003
I thought we had a solution to this problem yesterday.
Until your local branch of the Christian Coalition shuts the club down.
posted by Cerebus at 10:08 AM on September 18, 2003
Until your local branch of the Christian Coalition shuts the club down.
posted by Cerebus at 10:08 AM on September 18, 2003
If you look over time, universities typically raised their tuition rates a couple of percentage points above inflation. They've been doing this for decades. The problem has been that the amount of money the average family makes is no longer increasing at a similiar rate.
Even if you're spending 30000 for one year of education, that education is still "worth" much more than you paid. With the amount of money necessary to hire good professors, provide state of the art research labs and facilities to keep these professors and with the cutting of state funding, it's no wonder that universities cost a lot of money to attend. If you don't want to pay so much to attend a university, then increase the amount of money the state and federal government gives to these insitutions. If you don't want to do that, well, then you're out of luck.
posted by Stynxno at 10:16 AM on September 18, 2003
Even if you're spending 30000 for one year of education, that education is still "worth" much more than you paid. With the amount of money necessary to hire good professors, provide state of the art research labs and facilities to keep these professors and with the cutting of state funding, it's no wonder that universities cost a lot of money to attend. If you don't want to pay so much to attend a university, then increase the amount of money the state and federal government gives to these insitutions. If you don't want to do that, well, then you're out of luck.
posted by Stynxno at 10:16 AM on September 18, 2003
There's always the school of hard knocks.
Actually, one wonders if hoardes of young uneducated people wouldn't fit nicely into the plans of certain evil people who shall remain nameless but who like cheap blue collar labor.
posted by Outlawyr at 10:20 AM on September 18, 2003
Actually, one wonders if hoardes of young uneducated people wouldn't fit nicely into the plans of certain evil people who shall remain nameless but who like cheap blue collar labor.
posted by Outlawyr at 10:20 AM on September 18, 2003
AmericaFilter - Because We Matter More. ;o]
posted by Blue Stone at 10:39 AM on September 18, 2003
posted by Blue Stone at 10:39 AM on September 18, 2003
I still have not seen, in this report or in any other article, an explanation for where the money is going. College tuition is going up faster than inflation and faster than average income, when the economy is good and when it's bad, when government funding goes up and when it goes down. University employees don't have salaries going up that fast, so whose pockets does the money end up in?
posted by tdismukes at 11:01 AM on September 18, 2003
posted by tdismukes at 11:01 AM on September 18, 2003
Actually, one wonders if hoardes of young uneducated people wouldn't fit nicely into the plans of certain evil people who shall remain nameless but who like cheap blue collar labor.
Except that blue collar jobs are disappearing, given the mechanization of everything possible and the relocation of manufacturers overseas. [Imagines future when it's impossible to get a decent-paying job without education and impossible to get an education without a decent paying job and shudders.]
posted by orange swan at 11:06 AM on September 18, 2003
Except that blue collar jobs are disappearing, given the mechanization of everything possible and the relocation of manufacturers overseas. [Imagines future when it's impossible to get a decent-paying job without education and impossible to get an education without a decent paying job and shudders.]
posted by orange swan at 11:06 AM on September 18, 2003
i don't buy that college tuitions are fair and simply must be that way. and while this article lays quite a bit on the 'perception of the american people,' it was still worth reading. i recall a similar topic about a month ago here where quite a few people seemed to me unsympathetic.
i think also we have to start redefining 'non-profit' if that's how most universities classify themselves. books shouldn't cost $200 a pop, tuition is over-inflated in the united states and the higher education institutions do not feel accountable to anyone.
how come most higher education worldwide is nearly free? my friend is a college professor in the south of england, basically he says tuition and books and supplies are next to free *now* compared to what i paid in the early-90s.
posted by eatdonuts at 11:25 AM on September 18, 2003
i think also we have to start redefining 'non-profit' if that's how most universities classify themselves. books shouldn't cost $200 a pop, tuition is over-inflated in the united states and the higher education institutions do not feel accountable to anyone.
how come most higher education worldwide is nearly free? my friend is a college professor in the south of england, basically he says tuition and books and supplies are next to free *now* compared to what i paid in the early-90s.
posted by eatdonuts at 11:25 AM on September 18, 2003
so whose pockets does the money end up in?
It's not necessarily that cut and dry. You're implying that there is some eeevil board member somewhere lining his pockets with the tuition money. When things get more expensive, like power and water and food and toilet paper and microscopes, then those costs have to be paid for somehow, and then consider how much education funding gets cut. I live in CT, and I literally had a community college teaching position pulled out from under me at the last minute last year as just weeks before I was to sign the contract our governor decided to pull all the money he allotted for new teachers from the budgets, forcing all schools to go into a hiring freeze, and then continued to slash and slash and slash until the schools started struggling to maintain the number of classes offered and the hours the library stays open. And these are the community colleges, the ones that are a lot cheaper than even the state schools, which are also having their budgets slashed. A new trend among schools here is to have a skeleton staff of full timers and to farm out a lot of the classes to adjuncts. Why? Because though they pay adjuncts pretty decently, they don't have to insure them and give them other benefits. And this leads to all kinds of problems with consistency within a school.
College is getting to be prohibitively expensive, and costs are not rising in proportion to inflation.
posted by archimago at 11:27 AM on September 18, 2003
It's not necessarily that cut and dry. You're implying that there is some eeevil board member somewhere lining his pockets with the tuition money. When things get more expensive, like power and water and food and toilet paper and microscopes, then those costs have to be paid for somehow, and then consider how much education funding gets cut. I live in CT, and I literally had a community college teaching position pulled out from under me at the last minute last year as just weeks before I was to sign the contract our governor decided to pull all the money he allotted for new teachers from the budgets, forcing all schools to go into a hiring freeze, and then continued to slash and slash and slash until the schools started struggling to maintain the number of classes offered and the hours the library stays open. And these are the community colleges, the ones that are a lot cheaper than even the state schools, which are also having their budgets slashed. A new trend among schools here is to have a skeleton staff of full timers and to farm out a lot of the classes to adjuncts. Why? Because though they pay adjuncts pretty decently, they don't have to insure them and give them other benefits. And this leads to all kinds of problems with consistency within a school.
College is getting to be prohibitively expensive, and costs are not rising in proportion to inflation.
posted by archimago at 11:27 AM on September 18, 2003
At least in SUNY, where I teach, tuition has gone up as state funding has gone down. (Only 30% of our $ comes from the state.) This year's tuition increase did not increase my campus' budget at all--it simply kept our overall funding flat.
posted by thomas j wise at 11:29 AM on September 18, 2003
posted by thomas j wise at 11:29 AM on September 18, 2003
how come most higher education worldwide is nearly free?
Because it's paid for by the State. Duh.
Which isn't to say that it's free, but that *everyone* pays, whether or not they go to college, whether or not they went to college, and whether or not they were admitted to college.
In the vast majority of states, you can still get a perfectly good college education for less in tuition and fees than a decent new car costs.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:42 AM on September 18, 2003
Because it's paid for by the State. Duh.
Which isn't to say that it's free, but that *everyone* pays, whether or not they go to college, whether or not they went to college, and whether or not they were admitted to college.
In the vast majority of states, you can still get a perfectly good college education for less in tuition and fees than a decent new car costs.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 11:42 AM on September 18, 2003
books shouldn't cost $200 a pop
while I too suspect the costs of higher ed are inflated, I disagree here. In addition to paper, ink, and binding, you're paying for a lot of hard work, research, and writing time by very valuable people. There is going to be a price for that kind of contribution. And while that kind of cost is defrayed by millions of readers for popular press books, textbooks must become profitable with far fewer sales. In the corporate world, you'll find very valuable reports that are tailored to only a few hundred people--these books rightly sell for thousands of dollars.
posted by shinnin at 11:52 AM on September 18, 2003
while I too suspect the costs of higher ed are inflated, I disagree here. In addition to paper, ink, and binding, you're paying for a lot of hard work, research, and writing time by very valuable people. There is going to be a price for that kind of contribution. And while that kind of cost is defrayed by millions of readers for popular press books, textbooks must become profitable with far fewer sales. In the corporate world, you'll find very valuable reports that are tailored to only a few hundred people--these books rightly sell for thousands of dollars.
posted by shinnin at 11:52 AM on September 18, 2003
Imagines future when it's impossible to get a decent-paying job without education and impossible to get an education without a decent paying job and shudders.
A future? This is a reality right now for lots of people. Not an impossible problem, but it exists.
The university I went to was a pretty good school, very affordable for the education I got. Tuition has doubled over the last 10 years, but still it's under $2000 per semester. Not so bad, right?
Still... a summer full-time job at the respectable no education wage of $8/hr gives you under $4000, and under $6000 for the rest of the year. So you're covering tuition with summer work and living on $6000 for the rest of the year. Under $700/month.
In short: you either need savings, financial aid, or some way of dramatically reducing living costs (living with relatives) to make it. If for some reason those options aren't available to you, a higher education is out of your reach.
Fortunately, for the moment, at least two of those usually are available in some form for most people.
posted by weston at 12:05 PM on September 18, 2003
A future? This is a reality right now for lots of people. Not an impossible problem, but it exists.
The university I went to was a pretty good school, very affordable for the education I got. Tuition has doubled over the last 10 years, but still it's under $2000 per semester. Not so bad, right?
Still... a summer full-time job at the respectable no education wage of $8/hr gives you under $4000, and under $6000 for the rest of the year. So you're covering tuition with summer work and living on $6000 for the rest of the year. Under $700/month.
In short: you either need savings, financial aid, or some way of dramatically reducing living costs (living with relatives) to make it. If for some reason those options aren't available to you, a higher education is out of your reach.
Fortunately, for the moment, at least two of those usually are available in some form for most people.
posted by weston at 12:05 PM on September 18, 2003
how come most higher education worldwide is nearly free? my friend is a college professor in the south of england, basically he says tuition and books and supplies are next to free *now* compared to what i paid in the early-90s
What you paid in the US or in the UK in the early 90's? I can assure you that current students in the UK will typically be paying out a lot more than I was paying from 1989-1992, and without grants too. They will be coming out with considerable debts which are set to rise and which are proving to be a deterrent to kids at the poorer end of society. If the cost of books has come down I suspect it is because of the increased number of people that now attend university and resulting economies of scale.
(If these two sentences seem at odds, the increase in attendance is as a result of increased 16-18 year old education leaving more people qualified for university which in turn effectively means you now need a degree to do jobs where this was previously not the case. The UK is rapidly approaching the point where there is no economic return to society in increasing the number of graduates from each age cohort.
But yeah, the kids here will be paying a lot less than their US equivalents.
I agree with Shinnin on book pricing.
Here's an example, a senior academic I know got paid £2000 for a book, as the sole author. The field is pretty mainstream now and he's been in it for 25-30 years, is well known and was writing the book knowing it would be recommended to specific groups of students and thus have a guaranteed market. That sum would be regarded as a good price for a text book. Most would not get that much. The margins are lousy at this level.
posted by biffa at 12:20 PM on September 18, 2003
What you paid in the US or in the UK in the early 90's? I can assure you that current students in the UK will typically be paying out a lot more than I was paying from 1989-1992, and without grants too. They will be coming out with considerable debts which are set to rise and which are proving to be a deterrent to kids at the poorer end of society. If the cost of books has come down I suspect it is because of the increased number of people that now attend university and resulting economies of scale.
(If these two sentences seem at odds, the increase in attendance is as a result of increased 16-18 year old education leaving more people qualified for university which in turn effectively means you now need a degree to do jobs where this was previously not the case. The UK is rapidly approaching the point where there is no economic return to society in increasing the number of graduates from each age cohort.
But yeah, the kids here will be paying a lot less than their US equivalents.
I agree with Shinnin on book pricing.
Here's an example, a senior academic I know got paid £2000 for a book, as the sole author. The field is pretty mainstream now and he's been in it for 25-30 years, is well known and was writing the book knowing it would be recommended to specific groups of students and thus have a guaranteed market. That sum would be regarded as a good price for a text book. Most would not get that much. The margins are lousy at this level.
posted by biffa at 12:20 PM on September 18, 2003
books shouldn't cost $200 a pop
while I too suspect the costs of higher ed are inflated, I disagree here. In addition to paper, ink, and binding, you're paying for a lot of hard work, research, and writing time by very valuable people.
Notice those books were written by the Prof. Supply side economics probably made the Prof. an author and damn the editions too so you are buying new.
posted by thomcatspike at 12:23 PM on September 18, 2003
while I too suspect the costs of higher ed are inflated, I disagree here. In addition to paper, ink, and binding, you're paying for a lot of hard work, research, and writing time by very valuable people.
Notice those books were written by the Prof. Supply side economics probably made the Prof. an author and damn the editions too so you are buying new.
posted by thomcatspike at 12:23 PM on September 18, 2003
Note: Not blaming the Prof.
posted by thomcatspike at 12:26 PM on September 18, 2003
posted by thomcatspike at 12:26 PM on September 18, 2003
It's all part of the "trickle down" economic theory that Grover Norquist likes to use to disguise the gutting of government.
Subsidies for education have the highest return of any public investment.
posted by nofundy at 1:11 PM on September 18, 2003
Subsidies for education have the highest return of any public investment.
posted by nofundy at 1:11 PM on September 18, 2003
Tuition at my school was ~15K/year.
multiply by 14K people and you get 210 million.
All I know is that's a lot of money to run out of.
posted by cinderful at 1:17 PM on September 18, 2003
multiply by 14K people and you get 210 million.
All I know is that's a lot of money to run out of.
posted by cinderful at 1:17 PM on September 18, 2003
I'd also like to note that I worked in the school bookstore for 2 years. Sales there, including those $200 books, supplies, computers, camera/photo equipment, etc were barely enough to cover the cost of running the bookstore.
The bookstore was a service - not a money-maker.
posted by cinderful at 1:20 PM on September 18, 2003
The bookstore was a service - not a money-maker.
posted by cinderful at 1:20 PM on September 18, 2003
Not really cinderful. Say you have 100 profs (a conservative estimate for a school with 14K people) each making let's say 80K/year, and that's almost 100 million just in salaries. Then start adding in salaries of adjuncts, support staff, admins, student workers, the lady who cleans up your puke after the kegger, utility bills, insurance, lawyers, maintanence, library materials, etc etc and you can see why schools depend on govt funding and alumni donations.
posted by archimago at 1:26 PM on September 18, 2003
posted by archimago at 1:26 PM on September 18, 2003
Tuition at my school was ~15K/year.
multiply by 14K people and you get 210 million.
All I know is that's a lot of money to run out of.
Think of it this way. A big part of running schools are supporting the employees of the schools. If the average cost of employees is about 60K/year, counting salaries and benefits and all that, the 14K students pay for something like 3.5 K employees. A little excessive for a medium sized school, but not too much. Especially since a few students' tuition goes to buildings, taxes, research grants, and other costs. 210 million sounds like a lot, but a college/university is like a small town, and small town costs add up quickly.
posted by dness2 at 1:32 PM on September 18, 2003
multiply by 14K people and you get 210 million.
All I know is that's a lot of money to run out of.
Think of it this way. A big part of running schools are supporting the employees of the schools. If the average cost of employees is about 60K/year, counting salaries and benefits and all that, the 14K students pay for something like 3.5 K employees. A little excessive for a medium sized school, but not too much. Especially since a few students' tuition goes to buildings, taxes, research grants, and other costs. 210 million sounds like a lot, but a college/university is like a small town, and small town costs add up quickly.
posted by dness2 at 1:32 PM on September 18, 2003
ok, cool
I can stop talking out of my ass and just drop figures
like here
Budget from 2001 for Rochester Institute of Technology:
Total Revenues $381,625,000
Total Expenditures $380,147,000
posted by cinderful at 1:39 PM on September 18, 2003
I can stop talking out of my ass and just drop figures
like here
Budget from 2001 for Rochester Institute of Technology:
Total Revenues $381,625,000
Total Expenditures $380,147,000
posted by cinderful at 1:39 PM on September 18, 2003
College is getting to be prohibitively expensive, and costs are not rising in proportion to inflation.
How is it prohibitively expensive? If somebody REALLY wants to go to college, there's nothing stopping them. There's this lovely thing called working (BEFORE college and start saving in High School). Then, we have this lovely thing called loans. Here in Georgia, we have a second state-sponsored loan where your parents actually sign off for the loan and if they fail the credit check the loan moves to the student's name- and pretty much any student can get this loan as far as I know. Plus, we have HOPE scholarship which pays for up to 120 credit hours with a 3.0 GPA and a lot of colleges which HOPE doesn't cover (ie, out of state and private) will "cover HOPE" in order to attract students. Then again, HOPE is covered by the state lotto which is projected to be in deficit by the year 2006 or 7 IIRC
posted by jmd82 at 1:39 PM on September 18, 2003
How is it prohibitively expensive? If somebody REALLY wants to go to college, there's nothing stopping them. There's this lovely thing called working (BEFORE college and start saving in High School). Then, we have this lovely thing called loans. Here in Georgia, we have a second state-sponsored loan where your parents actually sign off for the loan and if they fail the credit check the loan moves to the student's name- and pretty much any student can get this loan as far as I know. Plus, we have HOPE scholarship which pays for up to 120 credit hours with a 3.0 GPA and a lot of colleges which HOPE doesn't cover (ie, out of state and private) will "cover HOPE" in order to attract students. Then again, HOPE is covered by the state lotto which is projected to be in deficit by the year 2006 or 7 IIRC
posted by jmd82 at 1:39 PM on September 18, 2003
For my first job, I had the priveledge of helping create a small biophysics lab. 2 rooms and space for 3 grad students, 1 professor, and me.
We didn't order really elaborate computer systems, fancy scentific equipment, etc. We ordered fairly basic stuff to runs our experiments on.
It took a year to get setup and cost around 2 million dollars.
Now, this was for a small professor. My next job took place with a top professor in her field, with a lab consisting of 6 rooms, room for around 8 grad students and 2 electron micoscopes.
After a bit, the amount of money starts to add up.
posted by Stynxno at 1:42 PM on September 18, 2003
We didn't order really elaborate computer systems, fancy scentific equipment, etc. We ordered fairly basic stuff to runs our experiments on.
It took a year to get setup and cost around 2 million dollars.
Now, this was for a small professor. My next job took place with a top professor in her field, with a lab consisting of 6 rooms, room for around 8 grad students and 2 electron micoscopes.
After a bit, the amount of money starts to add up.
posted by Stynxno at 1:42 PM on September 18, 2003
re: cinderful
Nice pie graphs...one curious thing is what kinda of university is that for, ie a big sports or small sports college as places like UGA where I attend, the AD gets (and looses) quite a bit of money.
posted by jmd82 at 1:43 PM on September 18, 2003
Nice pie graphs...one curious thing is what kinda of university is that for, ie a big sports or small sports college as places like UGA where I attend, the AD gets (and looses) quite a bit of money.
posted by jmd82 at 1:43 PM on September 18, 2003
About the cost of textbooks....
I work in publishing, and I've spent some time working on college textbooks specifically. There really is a slim profit margin in publishing and both authors and editors make very little for their work. Also, textbooks get replaced often as the professors want the most up to date texts for their students. So, if you have a product you took a few years to develop you may only have a few years to sell it to a limited audience. You can bring out a new edition, but that's more resources sunk into the book and therefore a need for more sales just to cover the company's investment.
posted by orange swan at 1:47 PM on September 18, 2003
I work in publishing, and I've spent some time working on college textbooks specifically. There really is a slim profit margin in publishing and both authors and editors make very little for their work. Also, textbooks get replaced often as the professors want the most up to date texts for their students. So, if you have a product you took a few years to develop you may only have a few years to sell it to a limited audience. You can bring out a new edition, but that's more resources sunk into the book and therefore a need for more sales just to cover the company's investment.
posted by orange swan at 1:47 PM on September 18, 2003
cinderful, good graphs.
One of the biggest complaints of tuition-is-rising-oh-my gripers is that colleges are using the financial aid students get from outside to cover the rise in tuition costs without feeling the impact of the demand decrease one would expect. They claim this is transfering the burden to the government and the rich students to subsidize the poor(er) students and meanwhile the college is laughing all the way to the bank. This may be happening, for sure this is the potential downside of subsidies, but they never explain just what bank the colleges are laughing all the way to. Your graphs show that RIT gives out 4 times as much student aid as it gets. Unless they have a massive scam going, RIT throws their arguments (which are strewn all over the FPP) into the wind.
posted by dness2 at 1:59 PM on September 18, 2003
One of the biggest complaints of tuition-is-rising-oh-my gripers is that colleges are using the financial aid students get from outside to cover the rise in tuition costs without feeling the impact of the demand decrease one would expect. They claim this is transfering the burden to the government and the rich students to subsidize the poor(er) students and meanwhile the college is laughing all the way to the bank. This may be happening, for sure this is the potential downside of subsidies, but they never explain just what bank the colleges are laughing all the way to. Your graphs show that RIT gives out 4 times as much student aid as it gets. Unless they have a massive scam going, RIT throws their arguments (which are strewn all over the FPP) into the wind.
posted by dness2 at 1:59 PM on September 18, 2003
A small amount of sports.
Mostly hockey, soccer, crew, and lacrosse.
RIT is mostly a technical school.
Engineering, IT, etc.
But the Graphic Design program is pretty large, and it has a good photo program. (obviously! Kodak is based in Rochester)
posted by cinderful at 2:10 PM on September 18, 2003
Mostly hockey, soccer, crew, and lacrosse.
RIT is mostly a technical school.
Engineering, IT, etc.
But the Graphic Design program is pretty large, and it has a good photo program. (obviously! Kodak is based in Rochester)
posted by cinderful at 2:10 PM on September 18, 2003
Where textbook dollors go.
Care to guess where I work?
posted by Wulfgar! at 2:17 PM on September 18, 2003
Care to guess where I work?
posted by Wulfgar! at 2:17 PM on September 18, 2003
archimago - "You're implying that there is some eeevil board member somewhere lining his pockets with the tuition money. When things get more expensive, like power and water and food and toilet paper and microscopes, then those costs have to be paid for somehow, and then consider how much education funding gets cut."
I'm not implying anything. I'm just confused and curious. As far as the cost of power, water, food, etc, those are included in inflation. I'm trying to figure out which costs are consistently exceeding inflation. It can't just be chalked up to cuts in educational funding either, because it's been going on for decades - even in years where educational funding is increased.
cinderful - Thanks for the charts. Now do you have equivalent charts from previous years so we can figure out which categories of costs are rising faster than inflation?
posted by tdismukes at 2:32 PM on September 18, 2003
I'm not implying anything. I'm just confused and curious. As far as the cost of power, water, food, etc, those are included in inflation. I'm trying to figure out which costs are consistently exceeding inflation. It can't just be chalked up to cuts in educational funding either, because it's been going on for decades - even in years where educational funding is increased.
cinderful - Thanks for the charts. Now do you have equivalent charts from previous years so we can figure out which categories of costs are rising faster than inflation?
posted by tdismukes at 2:32 PM on September 18, 2003
As a recent graduate, I've watched over the past few years as federal funding has diminished, requiring the states to take the bulk of the load. More recently, I've watched the state budgets hit bottom and seen public primary schools rely on diminishing budgets. State money that used to be allocated for colleges has been used to shore up the elementary/middle/high school funds.
I've now been assured that city budgets are depleted, and I have no idea where the money is going to come from. Trickle down, indeed.
posted by mikeh at 2:33 PM on September 18, 2003
I've now been assured that city budgets are depleted, and I have no idea where the money is going to come from. Trickle down, indeed.
posted by mikeh at 2:33 PM on September 18, 2003
Its good to keep in mind that a significant source of University funding for scholorships and building endowments comes from trusts. Many of these trusts are depleteted of excess or "underwater" as investments have tanked nationally.
posted by Wulfgar! at 2:38 PM on September 18, 2003
posted by Wulfgar! at 2:38 PM on September 18, 2003
[Imagines future when it's impossible to get a decent-paying job without education and impossible to get an education without a decent paying job and shudders.]
When put this way, I agree. On the other hand...
Two things. First, US universities are hardly worth the name according to students who have gone over there and then come over here. They're challenging to get into, and a minority of students make it in. The fact that a majority of high school graduates in the US go on to higher education is why we don't have a huge pool of funding.
As for tuition increasing... the people who will get socked the worst are, as usual, the middle class. Those who can't get need-based financial aid, and those for whom merit-based aid has dried up, will get socked with huge debt loads upon graduation that will effectively tie them to their jobs.
The funny thing is, the best way to get out of this mess is going to be to contribute more money towards research, which will over time create new information capital and
And ... last but not least, supply-side economics aren't TOTALLY wrong. They have their place in the economic scene, even if most economists ignore them completely. Unfortunately, the effects of a supply-side spending decision like research spending won't necessarily manifest themselves in our lifetimes. Therefore, politicians aren't likely to make them now, even if they are the best in the long run.
posted by SpecialK at 3:26 PM on September 18, 2003
When put this way, I agree. On the other hand...
Two things. First, US universities are hardly worth the name according to students who have gone over there and then come over here. They're challenging to get into, and a minority of students make it in. The fact that a majority of high school graduates in the US go on to higher education is why we don't have a huge pool of funding.
As for tuition increasing... the people who will get socked the worst are, as usual, the middle class. Those who can't get need-based financial aid, and those for whom merit-based aid has dried up, will get socked with huge debt loads upon graduation that will effectively tie them to their jobs.
The funny thing is, the best way to get out of this mess is going to be to contribute more money towards research, which will over time create new information capital and
And ... last but not least, supply-side economics aren't TOTALLY wrong. They have their place in the economic scene, even if most economists ignore them completely. Unfortunately, the effects of a supply-side spending decision like research spending won't necessarily manifest themselves in our lifetimes. Therefore, politicians aren't likely to make them now, even if they are the best in the long run.
posted by SpecialK at 3:26 PM on September 18, 2003
These higher education threads always seem to have the most interesting, nonhysterical discussions.
Just sayin.
posted by gottabefunky at 6:25 PM on September 18, 2003
Just sayin.
posted by gottabefunky at 6:25 PM on September 18, 2003
They do, gottabefunky. I read them all because at 30 I've had just one full year off from school since the age of 5, so this really interests me. One thread that I'm too lazy to look up had such interesting comments on how one could acquire education through independent study that I have since cut back my community college part-time studies to one course a semester. Otherwise I get course outlines, study one or two evenings a week, and apply for exemptions when I feel I've learned the required material. Saves me money and time (no commute, no time spent listening to an instructor explaining something I know to others in the class), and I get the accreditation a potential employer wants to see.
My quote above that other people have commented on was perhaps a dark view of things. There are ways to beat the system and I'm going to make sure that every teenager I know hears about alternatives to the "full-time university immediately after high school and extreme debt" track.
posted by orange swan at 7:17 PM on September 18, 2003
My quote above that other people have commented on was perhaps a dark view of things. There are ways to beat the system and I'm going to make sure that every teenager I know hears about alternatives to the "full-time university immediately after high school and extreme debt" track.
posted by orange swan at 7:17 PM on September 18, 2003
How is it prohibitively expensive? ...There's this lovely thing called working...Then, we have this lovely thing called loans.
Philosophically, I'm entirely with you on this. I have a demoralizing debt burden and I gripe about it frequently, but it gave me the education and the incentive (must...not...default...) to go be successful while many of my rich kid peers flounder after college.
It's worth noting, however, that my loan burden is attenuated by historically low interest rates. Things are really going to suck for kids in 10 years or so with incredibly high debt principals and high interest rates
posted by shinnin at 7:29 AM on September 19, 2003
Philosophically, I'm entirely with you on this. I have a demoralizing debt burden and I gripe about it frequently, but it gave me the education and the incentive (must...not...default...) to go be successful while many of my rich kid peers flounder after college.
It's worth noting, however, that my loan burden is attenuated by historically low interest rates. Things are really going to suck for kids in 10 years or so with incredibly high debt principals and high interest rates
posted by shinnin at 7:29 AM on September 19, 2003
« Older Learn How to Make Change | The Haida Art of Bill Reid. Newer »
This thread has been archived and is closed to new comments
posted by SandeepKrishnamurthy at 9:31 AM on September 18, 2003