Comments on: Department of Justice... Ha!

Department of Justice... Ha!

Ignatius J. Reilly — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:48:56 -0800

Attorney General Is Closely Linked to Inquiry Figures Karl Rove, President Bush (news - web sites)'s top political adviser, whose possible role in the case has raised questions, was a paid consultant to three of Mr. Ashcroft's campaigns in Missouri, twice for governor and for United States senator, in the 1980's and 1990's, an associate of Mr. Rove said on Wednesday. Jack Oliver, the deputy finance chairman of Mr. Bush's 2004 re-election campaign, was the director of Mr. Ashcroft's 1994 Senate campaign, and later worked as Mr. Ashcroft's deputy chief of staff. No wonder 69% of Americans think that an independent counsel should conduct the investigation.

By: soyjoy

soyjoy — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 10:54:35 -0800

Don't wanna keep flogging Atrios, but he had this great, extremely relevant "Ashcroft Flashback" that should've been on that leftcoaster page, which I've dragged out of Nexis and pasted in without Atrios' ellipses... CNN, Evans & Novak, October 4, 1997 ASHCROFT: The truth of the matter is that if the law's been violated, we should be able to ascertain that. We can if we have an independent person without a conflict of interest. And if there's been a violation that can be prosecuted -- there's a whole range of additional questions that you might want to ask... EVANS: Well, that's what I want to get to. The attorney general has shaved down all the allegations that Vice President Gore apparently down to one single allegation -- which telephone he used to make these fundraising calls from. Do you really think that alone is worthy of a special prosecutor? ASHCROFT: Well, whether -- you know, a single allegation can be most worthy of a special prosecutor. If you're abusing government property, if you're abusing your status in office, it can be a single fact that makes the difference on that. So my own view is that there are plenty of things which should have caused her a long time ago to appoint a special prosecutor, an independent investigator. We asked for that on March the 13th of this year in letters from Republican members on the Judiciary Committee. And she's in a bad position. EVANS: Well, let me ask you this. ASHCROFT: The man who signs her check is the man that she's investigating, and she hasn't been very aggressive about it.

By: Outlawyr

Outlawyr — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:07:16 -0800

I am being crushed by an irony avalanche. And I love love love it.

By: VulcanMike

VulcanMike — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:15:02 -0800

I recommend everyone joins me here to let CNN know how we feel about the issue, and also about Mr. Novak's flip-flopping and past actions.

By: alumshubby

alumshubby — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:20:24 -0800

Great, but can they pin any of this on Rush Limbaugh?

By: mkultra

mkultra — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:22:35 -0800

Uh, what does CNN have to do with this?

By: the fire you left me

the fire you left me — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:24:05 -0800

Oh look, more partisan blather from Ignatius J. Reilly. Further, this is splattered all over the news sites. Why post it here?

By: eyeballkid

eyeballkid — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:35:07 -0800

Uh, what does CNN have to do with this? Novak, who wrote the article that outed the CIA agent works as a host on CNN's Crossfire.

By: VulcanMike

VulcanMike — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:36:22 -0800

mkultra: Bob Novak was responsible for first printing the leak, and as my links explored, has questionable involvement with the administration and the smear. He's also part of CNN's Crossfire, The Capital Gang and The Novak Zone, where he has his own wide forum for sharing his views, or perhaps any spin the administration might feed him.

By: mapalm

mapalm — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:36:42 -0800

Yea, partisan blather. That's right. Yup. Sorry, but you just can't deny the truth of the connections, and the serious issues they raise.

By: mapalm

mapalm — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:38:14 -0800

That should have been "partisan blather" (see the fire you left me above)

By: Ignatius J. Reilly

Ignatius J. Reilly — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:38:51 -0800

Uh, what does CNN have to do with this? Novak works for them. Oh look, more partisan blather from Ignatius J. Reilly. More reasoned refutation from the fire you left me. What does partisan mean? I don't belong to any political party, and certainly not to the party to which you are assigning me (Democrats). Why post it here? Recent posts on similar topics have led to good threads with lots of links, and I certainly found it to be interesting. Plus, it's on the web. If Matt deletes it, I won't cut off my hand or anything, but I don't feel the need to furth defend this post in the blue. Don't derail a thread just because you think I'm a doofus.

By: y2karl

y2karl — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:39:06 -0800

Further, this splattered all over the news sites. Why post it here? All posts by the fire you left me.

By: micropublishery

micropublishery — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:58:14 -0800

From one of the other NYT articles today: In a memorandum distributed Wednesday to Republicans on Capitol Hill, the Republican National Committee suggested that the party strike back at Democrats. "Lacking a positive issue agenda to offer the American people, the Democratic Party now returns to what they have long seen as their best opportunity to defeat President Bush and Republicans — scandalmongering," the memo said. Republicans acusing Dems of "scandalmongering!" That is just precious...

By: mathowie

mathowie — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:04:07 -0800

Who said independent counsels are a good thing?

By: madamjujujive

madamjujujive — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:04:57 -0800

Good news! Ashcroft seems to favor special prosecutors. Or at least that's waht he said in 1997. ASHCROFT: The truth of the matter is that if the law's been violated, we should be able to ascertain that. We can, if we have an independent person without a conflict of interest ROWLAND EVANS: The attorney general has shaved down all the allegations that Vice President Gore apparently down to one single allegation -- which telephone he used to make these fundraising calls from. Do you really think that alone is worthy of a special prosecutor? ASHCROFT: you know, a single allegation can be most worthy of a special prosecutor. If you're abusing government property, if you're abusing your status in office, it can be a single fact that makes the difference on that. So my own view is that there are plenty of things which should have caused [Attorney General Janet Reno], a long time ago, to appoint a special prosecutor, an independent investigator. We asked for that on March the 13th of this year in letters from Republican members on the Judiciary Committee. And she's in a bad position The man who signs her check is the man that she's investigating, and she hasn't been very aggressive about it.

By: madamjujujive

madamjujujive — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:08:18 -0800

duh, sorry for the repeated info ignatius... it would help if I had read all your posts more carefully!

By: homunculus

homunculus — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:24:47 -0800

Oozing Hypocrisy Over a Leak

By: homunculus

homunculus — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:32:16 -0800

Ashcroft's performance at a press conference a couple of days ago was priceless: "Attorney General Ashcroft," the reporter said, "I was wondering if you could follow up" on the question of "what assurances can you give the American public that this will be an independent inquiry -- wait, wait!" "Apparently, there aren't any other questions," Ashcroft said. "I want to thank you very much." "But there are other questions!"

By: soyjoy

soyjoy — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:35:11 -0800

madamjujujive, how come IJR gets the apology instead of me? And here I thought you loved me.

By: donth

donth — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:37:10 -0800

An Independent Counsel? Not Again! by Timothy Noah at Slate.

By: stonerose

stonerose — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:54:44 -0800

The investigation into the leak of a CIA officer's name is likely to expand to other Bush administration agencies, including the State and Defense departments, officials said Thursday.

By: madamjujujive

madamjujujive — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:58:31 -0800

Wow, soyjoy, I must be suffering from flashbacks after the wavy gravy thread... mea culpa, mea culpa! But just because I am space cadet of the day doesn't mean I don't love ya, soyjoy!

By: hyperizer

hyperizer — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:10:14 -0800

On NPR yesterday a reporter mentioned that the order for the White House to preserve records was delayed a day. I'm unable to find this in any stories online. Any leads?

By: homunculus

homunculus — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:17:10 -0800

hyperizer, here: "The department notified the counsel's office about 8:30 p.m. Monday that it was launching an investigation but said the White House could wait until the next morning to notify staff and direct them to preserve relevant material, McClellan said."

By: soyjoy

soyjoy — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:20:42 -0800

GOP Senator [Arlen Specter]: Ashcroft should consider recusal on leak probe

By: homunculus

homunculus — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:26:16 -0800

From stonerose's link: "Justice Department guidelines allow for journalists to be subpoenaed only on rare occasions, after all reasonable attempts are made to obtain the information from other sources." The author of that article should read the links in this thread.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:30:51 -0800

and meanwhile, no wmds. Is the administration too busy doing damage control to plant some? or are they waiting for an october surprise?

By: anastasiav

anastasiav — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:38:45 -0800

Someone else who thinks this is treason

By: JollyWanker

JollyWanker — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:44:28 -0800

I can see why the guy's dad is pissed, anastasiav, but it's not clear to me how this is treasonnous...? (And I mean that sincerely, the word "treason" is being tossed around with such gay abandon these days, I'm not sure I know to what it actually refers any more).

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:55:59 -0800

It harmed our country by revealing a secret agent's identity--that seems treasonous to me. here's dictionary.com's definition

By: thomcatspike

thomcatspike — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 14:57:03 -0800

and meanwhile, no wmds. Is the administration too busy doing damage control to plant some? or are they waiting for an october surprise? Surprise!!!, amberglow.

By: eyeballkid

eyeballkid — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:03:13 -0800

Treason implies an attempt to overthrow the government. What Rove may have done is the opposite. His actions were in the interest of the administration. Rove's alleged actions wouldn't make him guilty of treason. They just make him a traitor to the U.S. Hey, Ann Coulter, did you get all that?

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:07:56 -0800

wouldn't Kay have mentioned that in his report to Congress if it was related, or even true? or Rummy? or someone? They're not using it as evidence at all. Despite six months of postwar searching, weapons hunters have yet to announce any findings that would validate most of President Bush's assertions about Iraq's weapons programs and ties to terrorism. Those assertions, and the intelligence behind them, drove the administration's case for war.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:23:59 -0800

Surprise!!! I saw this last night. Has it been verified by any other sources? The thing I don't get is, if you want to get chemical weapons from Iraq to Europe, why go through Kuwait, which has been cooperating closely with the U.S. since the first Gulf War? Wouldn't Syria or Turkey be easier?

By: amberglow

amberglow — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:35:13 -0800

I would think the administration would have been shouting this from the rooftops to stop all the leak investigation news--if they ever needed something like this, it's this week. I think you're right, homunculus. Anywhere--even Iran would have been a better place to smuggle stuff into.

By: JackFlash

JackFlash — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:36:31 -0800

Surprise!!! I think they found then on the floor of the hospital next to the babies Saddam tossed out of the incubators.

By: thomcatspike

thomcatspike — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:38:24 -0800

been verified by any other sources Find the article being published in a small publication odd too, why I posted it.

By: anastasiav

anastasiav — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:56:30 -0800

JollyWanker - please see this for the answer to your question.

By: soyjoy

soyjoy — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:39:13 -0800

Treason implies an attempt to overthrow the government. What Rove may have done is the opposite. His actions were in the interest of the administration. Sorry, but no. Treason means acting directly and intentionally counter to the interests of your own country, not just its current administration. Otherwise it would have been treason to force Nixon out of office. The act of outing an undercover CIA operative - especially one who's doing the very work that's supposed to save the country from destruction - is treasonous in a literal, if not legal, sense. And lastly, this act does not, from where I'm seeing it, seem to be in the interest of this administration. Quite the contrary.

By: y2karl

y2karl — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 19:24:55 -0800

thomcatspike's WMD link comes from the Agonist where the subtitle read Treat As Suspect. The Agonist was being extremely generous--that story makes Debkafile--nay, the Weekly World News--look like the New York Times in comparison to the Hindustani Times. It's right up there with the Mystery Ships in the credibility department. No, I take that back--the Mystery Ships were a lot more believable. Batboy on 20/20 is a more likely October surprise.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Thu, 02 Oct 2003 21:28:35 -0800

John Dean thinks Plame and Wilson should file a civil suit. Apparently a civil suit played an instrumental role in Watergate.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Fri, 03 Oct 2003 16:08:49 -0800

And here's an interview with Daniel Ellsberg discussing the similarities.

By: y2karl

y2karl — Fri, 03 Oct 2003 18:49:11 -0800

Leak of Agent's Name Causes Exposure of CIA Front Firm The leak of a CIA operative's name has also exposed the identity of a CIA front company, potentially expanding the damage caused by the original disclosure, Bush administration officials said yesterday. Wilson Hires Lawyer As Leak Probe Intensifies The couple's lawyer, Christopher Wolf, says "obviously the Wilsons' right to privacy has been violated."

By: amberglow

amberglow — Fri, 03 Oct 2003 19:31:22 -0800

...Bush administration officials said yesterday. so are they leaking about the leak now? And doesn't this info hurt more people in the field or at the CIA?

By: homunculus

homunculus — Sat, 04 Oct 2003 10:40:37 -0800

"The truth, however, is that Novak's televised mention of Plame's 'employer' is a non-issue -- at least in terms of doing further damage. The damage was done on July 14th when he first mentioned her name."

By: homunculus

homunculus — Sat, 04 Oct 2003 16:34:28 -0800

Here is a detailed, day-by-day chronology of Bush's reaction to the leak.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Sat, 04 Oct 2003 17:07:50 -0800

that's hysterical, homunculus (and pathetic too)

By: amberglow

amberglow — Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:05:49 -0800

interesting take on the whole thing by the godfather of outing, Signorile.