Comments on: Another urban legend debunked

Another urban legend debunked

riffola — Tue, 04 Nov 2003 21:56:23 -0800

ESA astronaut, Pedro Duque writes "I am writing these notes in the Soyuz with a cheap ballpoint pen. Why is that important? As it happens, I've been working in space programmes for seventeen years, eleven of these as an astronaut, and I've always believed, because that is what I've always been told, that normal ballpoint pens don't work in space... and here I am, it doesn't stop working and it doesn't 'spit' or anything. Sometimes being too cautious keeps you from trying, and therefore things are built more complex than necessary." From Snopes: Fisher spent over one million dollars in trying to perfect the ball point pen before he made his first successful pressurized pens in 1965, which NASA uses. [via GearBits]

By: quonsar

quonsar — Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:04:37 -0800

duped again! this time by the filthy running dog imperialist worldwide corporate ballpoint cabal!

By: mantid

mantid — Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:06:56 -0800

what was the problem with pencils, again?

By: funkbrain

funkbrain — Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:09:33 -0800

Graphite conducts electricity easily. Floating graphite dust could easily short sensitive electronics.

By: riffola

riffola — Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:27:12 -0800

mantid, from the Snopes link: ...the leads sometimes broke and became a hazard by floating in the [capsule's] atmosphere where there was no gravity. They could float into an eye or nose or cause a short in an electrical device. In addition, both the lead and the wood of the pencil could burn rapidly in the pure oxygen atmosphere

By: wobh

wobh — Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:33:53 -0800

It was a joke, but no one laughed when I first said it. They just looked at me funny. One person asked me if I was sure. A couple of weeks later I got a call from someone who wanted confirmation. I told him, very plainly, several times, I said: "Fountain pens will not work in space." Fools.

By: jkaczor

jkaczor — Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:35:03 -0800

yeah well - I've had a fischer freebie space pen (came w/car) for about ~6 months and the durn thing spits, will not write smoothly and is just a royal pain in the ass to use. maybe its' just because I have the ol' left hand 'o the damned...

By: WolfDaddy

WolfDaddy — Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:40:39 -0800

Y'know, Bic Corporation would have made trillions by now if they'd just call those little mini-Bic lighters "Son of a Bic". You heard it here first.

By: interrobang

interrobang — Tue, 04 Nov 2003 22:53:44 -0800

Don't ballpoints work through capillary action, anyway? Why would gravity have anything to do with the function of a ballpoint? Or is this story a leftover of an age where people still used fountain pens? Again, isn't capillary action the way they work, too? Honest and unsarcastic question.

By: kaemaril

kaemaril — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 00:39:15 -0800

Oh, sure. Pencils may be too high-tech to work in space due to the danger of the graphite conducting ... but what about crayons? Not only would they work, but if the astronauts get bored they could draw a nice colour picture for the boys back home... :)

By: elpapacito

elpapacito — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 02:41:35 -0800

As far as I know (seen it somewhere on the net) the normal ballpoint pens work thanks to gravity and capillary action. Gravity pulls the ink from top to bottom, capillary action helps pulling ink on the paper. If the ink is contained into some fibrous container (like a sponge) capillary action will help the ink flow to the ball, but normal "BIC" pens don't have such a structure, so if you try to write with a BIC upside down in space it shouldn't work as well as on earth or may not work at all. Nasa Space Pen is completely pressurized so pressure compensates gravity problem. Also, the Nasa Space Pen should work outside the space station as well unless the ink freezes. The BIC ink would almost surely freeze or god-knows-what. I guess I'd like to have a pen and a piece of paper in space just-in-case the whole comm system breaks down (unlikely but I don't think labial reading is a common astronaut skill).

By: anathema

anathema — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:14:04 -0800

...and then eat them. It's all about efficiency when you're in space.

By: anathema

anathema — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 03:14:45 -0800

crayons, that is.

By: Postroad

Postroad — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 04:30:37 -0800

why write?tape record.

By: davidmsc

davidmsc — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 04:59:09 -0800

Forget pens, pencils, and voice-recorders...why not just BLOG IT?

By: magullo

magullo — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:14:35 -0800

Why would gravity have anything to do with the function of a ballpoint? Try writing upside down (i.e. on the ceiling). The ink will stop flowing after a short while. At the risk of sounding like a clueless member of NASA's staff, I can't understand why it works in zero-g.

By: twine42

twine42 — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:47:14 -0800

it should work if you flick the thing occasionally... I think...

By: CrazyJub

CrazyJub — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 05:55:20 -0800

Try writing upside down (i.e. on the ceiling). The ink will stop flowing after a short while. At the risk of sounding like a clueless member of NASA's staff, I can't understand why it works in zero-g My guess is when you hold the pen normally, the ink flows down, upside down it flows up, but in zero-g it would not flow anywhere. So in fact the pen would work fine because once the ink is down, it's not going anywhere.

By: moonbiter

moonbiter — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 07:09:24 -0800

Yeah, I think CrazyJub is right. Even more to the point, the act of writing would probably draw ink to the ball, because the outflow of ink onto the paper would create a pressure difference within the ink tube.

By: thomcatspike

thomcatspike — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:04:45 -0800

Seen two types of cheap ball point pens; one's the ink tube has a stopper at the non writing end, then one's the ink tube is open at the non writing end. Which one did he have? because the outflow of ink onto the paper would create a pressure difference within the ink tube. Thought there is no friction in a vacuum, space; so how would the ink stay on the ball then transfer to paper?

By: Nauip

Nauip — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 11:12:02 -0800

Thought there is no friction in a vacuum, space; so how would the ink stay on the ball then transfer to paper? because they're not in a vacuum. they're in a shuttle/pressurized cabin.

By: thomcatspike

thomcatspike — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 12:35:11 -0800

shuttle/pressurized cabin dope!, above was my original thought why the cheap ball point pen worked, they do have air to breathe, unlike a vacuum. Then my question, which cheap pen he used would not matter. In space, vacuum, would the ink in a cheap ball point pen explode everywhere if it had not froozen first? Was the space pen designed for use in space outside their cabin/capsule then?

By: magullo

magullo — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 13:51:37 -0800

So in fact the pen would work fine because once the ink is down, it's not going anywhere. Help me out here: if it doesn't work upside down on earth, it's because the ink doesn't flow to the tip (because the force of gravity keeps it down). If, as you way, in zero g it isn't going anywhere, then it doesn't flow to the tip either. Once the ink in the penhead is spent, why would the rest follow? Even more to the point, the act of writing would probably draw ink to the ball, because the outflow of ink onto the paper would create a pressure difference within the ink tube. This looks like the answer. And like all good answers, it opens another question: this problem cost a one million dollars to solve? I'd say that Snopes could have fallen for the Fisher PR on this one. Also ... if pieces of pencil graphite create an shorting hazard, would you recommend an all-metal replacement?

By: inpHilltr8r

inpHilltr8r — Wed, 05 Nov 2003 14:28:40 -0800

there is no friction in a vacuum s/friction/pressure/