500 Most Influential Rock Songs

November 19, 2003 12:03 PM

Spot The Essential, Seminal, How-Could-These-Imbeciles-Have-Forgotten? Popular Song:A well-made list, specially if it's authoritative and includes no less than 500 songs, is just asking to be cruelly inspected for omissions, ridiculed for certain inclusions and generally derided. This one is, admittedly, a toughy. But perhaps way too US-centric and too Rockist. I mean, honestly, sometimes you Yanks act as if you'd invented Pop music! ;) (Via the newly-discovered Rivurcated Bifets.)
posted by MiguelCardoso (67 comments total)

I'll start! Out of 500 songs, no Pixies. Oh well.
posted by phong3d at 12:09 PM on November 19, 2003

Yes, America invented pop music, rock and roll, jazz, soul...on and on.
posted by wsg at 12:18 PM on November 19, 2003

Lessee. Deep Purple, Steppenwolf, Alice Cooper and Joan Jett. Check, check, check and check. OK, I'm satisfied.

wsg: How can you not include ragtime before the 'on and on'?
posted by mischief at 12:24 PM on November 19, 2003

It was irony, wsg. I know and I'm very thankful. The question is - just as the British also invented lawn tennis, golf, football, rugby, billiards and what have you - are you any damn good at it?

(Hold that digit! That was another joke!)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 12:25 PM on November 19, 2003

The Yardbirds, “Shapes of Things”

Of all the Yardbirds songs, they chose this (admittedly very good) song? The 'birds' version of "I'm A Man" was far more influential, the riff having been reworked by every garage band on earth.

Metallica, “Enter Sandman”

Again, the band deserves mention as influential because they solidified the thrash metal sound, but wouldn't say "Seek And Destroy" or "For Whom the Bell Tolls" have been a more representative choice? I could point out many more worthy artists represented by the wrong song: do they seriously think "Teenager In Love" is more important than "The Wanderer?" And "I Ain't Superstitious" would represent Jeff Beck better than "Plynth", since it is the earliest extant example of the hard rock power trio.

Not to mention, no Hank Williams? He's easily as influential on rock as many of the bluesmen mentioned? Where's "Sugar Sugar," (say what you want about the whole genre, but there's no denying it's influence as the seminal bubblegum number). Plus Brit Glam rock gets a deserved mention with Mott's "All The Young Dudes," but where's the Sweet's "Little Willy," which consummates the pop/metal marraige? Or Kiss's "Beth" the first power ballad? And I don't see a single version of "Staggerlee?" And no Captain Beefheart, who's influence of modern rock is incalculable? Or Blue Cheer's "Summertime Blues" which invented stoner/doom rock (pre-Sabbath)?

Again, we're talking influence, not qualty neccessarily, although I do personally like all the aforementioned, but there's a case to be made for them all.
posted by jonmc at 12:25 PM on November 19, 2003

Good catch on all of those, jonmc. If you're going to put Beefheart in there, you should add Zappa--although it's hard to find a single song that stands out. Maybe "Valley Girl"?

The only omissions I could think of are Warren Zevon's "Werewolves of London". And maybe the Cure's "Just Like Heaven".

I'm sure others will follow.
posted by jpoulos at 12:30 PM on November 19, 2003

Wot? No MC5?
posted by pooligan at 12:31 PM on November 19, 2003

Well, to start, where's "Time Is Tight"?
posted by timeistight at 12:36 PM on November 19, 2003

No Tim Buckley or Leonard Cohen either.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 12:37 PM on November 19, 2003

I mean, honestly, sometimes you Yanks act as if you'd invented Pop music!

This can be proved by comparing the number of Elvis impersonators to, say, the number of Amalia Rodrigues impersonators.

As for the list, I liked it from the start (the first two items being one of the best late-night Open Mike bar medleys I ever took part in). And all of the usual suspects seem present (even the ones I hate, like Hey Jude and White Rabbit). The one that surprises me comes near the end, where Go to the Mirror Boy, surely a minor song, is included over Won’t Get Fooled Again or I Can See For Miles. Or even Pinball Wizard — The Who (despite not being Yanks) being the epitome of this sort of Maximum R&B.

p.s. As for The Pixies, rock had finished being 'influenced' long before they showed up in the late 80s.
posted by LeLiLo at 12:39 PM on November 19, 2003

And speaking of Yankee chauvinism, giving "Gloria" to the Shadows of Knight and leaving out Them altogether is simply ridiculous.
posted by timeistight at 12:42 PM on November 19, 2003

Pooligan- good catch.

jpoulos-They did include "Brown Shoes Don't Make It" by the Mothers, although if you ask me "Hungry Freaks, daddy" or "Joe's Garage" would be better choices. Not to mention nothing by Spirit (the most underrated of all the west coast bands and pioneers of post-psychedelia.
posted by jonmc at 12:44 PM on November 19, 2003

no Purple People Eater
posted by jfuller at 12:47 PM on November 19, 2003

Rush is on the list, so clearly the list is crap.
posted by alou73 at 12:50 PM on November 19, 2003

no Purple People Eater

'tis true jfuller. And no "Surfin' Bird," or "Strychnine" (the most sublimely insane records ever) either.

This list needs lotsa work.
posted by jonmc at 12:52 PM on November 19, 2003

A cursory purview tells me there are about 20 women on this list. Out of 500. It's just a ballpark, because I counted any band that had any woman in it, and i don't know about every band on the list, but still, we're talking like 4-5% here.

I guess I should be grateful to be spared an egregious shout-out to Liz Phair, but that is cold comfort indeed.
posted by DenOfSizer at 1:01 PM on November 19, 2003

Spirit (the most underrated of all the west coast bands . . .

Err, as a disappointed owner of a two-disc Spirit retrospective, bought back in my teens, isn't Spirit best remembered as the band Led Zepplin stole (some of) the music for "Stairway to Heaven" from? I have a hard time imaging a list where there are only 499 entries better than "Fresh Garbage".

I was going to say, "if Spirit, why not Quicksilver Messenger Service," but I bothered to check the link first. They got the wrong song: I'd go with 'Pride of Man'.
posted by yerfatma at 1:07 PM on November 19, 2003

DenOfSizer: I practice in a rehearsal complex with at least a hundred other bands and I've seen two women in the three months I've been there.

Assuming you are saying the list is sexist, would you say my rehearsal space is sexist as well?

Assuming you're not, what is your point?
posted by jon_kill at 1:10 PM on November 19, 2003

I was going to say, "if Spirit, why not Quicksilver Messenger Service,"

Well, I like Quicksilver, but Spirit had a better sense of song structure and reigned in their more indulgent impulses more effectively, plus Ed Cassiday's jazz flavored drumming insured plenty of rhythmic inventiveness. But it's a list of songs not artists and I'd say "Fresh Garbage" or even "Nature's Way" would be a good choice to represent Early 70's west coast rock.

I'm with you that "Pride Of Man" is a better choice to represent Quicksilver though.

Also, I just noticed another glaring omission, where the hell is "Surrender," by Cheap Trick? the original american hard rock anthem?
posted by jonmc at 1:14 PM on November 19, 2003

posted by sharksandwich at 1:21 PM on November 19, 2003

Jon_kill: I'm saying there's something fundamentally fucked up about an entire artform that is so little participated in by half the population. It's just freaking sad, and pretty mystifying, because as far as I can tell, many many many women seem to listen to pop music. (Unlike, say, football, where the participation/fandom ratio seems a little more internally consistent, at least.)

Do you practice in a corporate boardroom?

Froggy's Lament. Heh.
posted by DenOfSizer at 1:23 PM on November 19, 2003

Thanks for the link, Miguel.

Now I have Hotel California stuck in my head and my ears are bleeding.
posted by SteveInMaine at 1:26 PM on November 19, 2003

I suppose if I had to pick a handful of rap songs that influenced rock, "U Can't Touch This" would be on my list too. Meh.
posted by furiousthought at 1:30 PM on November 19, 2003

I'm a Beatles fan, and think they should have given a shout out to the whole of Sergeant Pepper or Abbey Road rather than two Monkees entrees. I like the Monkees, but they were straight out manufactured to be the American Beatles.

A cursory purview tells me there are about 20 women on this list. Out of 500.

Good catch, DenofSizer. They have Joni Mitchell and Carol King, but what about Janis Joplin? Carly Simon? Maybe even Sarah McLachlan, Sheryl Crow or Melissa Ethridge?
posted by tlong at 1:34 PM on November 19, 2003

I'm saying there's something fundamentally fucked up about an entire artform that is so little participated in by half the population.

Can you name another artform whose canon contains a lot of women? Back in the 60s and 70s women had very little real participation in almost all forms of public life in America. Women could be singers and entertainers, but rarely writers, producers, or artists. Back then, feminism existed for a reason.
posted by fuzz at 1:41 PM on November 19, 2003

I like the Monkees, but they were straight out manufactured to be the American Beatles.

So what? A lot of great music was largely "manufactured" look at Motown: staff writers, staff producers & musicians, and Berry Gordy controlling every detail. Or the Phil Spector stable. Dosen't make what's in the grooves any less great or important.
posted by jonmc at 1:45 PM on November 19, 2003

AC/DC, The Doors, Bob Dylan, Metallica, Edwin Starr, Van Halen, The Beatles, Simon and Garfunkel, Led Zeppelin, Elton John, Buddy Holly, Pat Benatar, Jimi Hendrix, James Taylor, R.E.M... I'm intrigued by how many songs and artists on this list were also on that other list. Not that either list means jack squat, but I find the correlations amusing. Lists like this are generally worthless, although with some careful thought, people can piece together the musical voice of 20th century America, or at least get a general idea. These lists are way too ethnocentric. There's no way to make a list upon which everyone can agree. Personally I don't think I could narrow down to one thousand, my favorite songs of all time - the ones that I felt influenced by in some small way.

Perhaps it's best just to enjoy the music as it comes, rather than constantly trying to compartmentalize everything, although lists can be fun.. oh I'm so torn! =)
posted by ZachsMind at 1:48 PM on November 19, 2003

In addition to the omissions others have pointed out, you can't take a list of "Songs That Shaped Rock" seriously if it leaves out "Rocket 88," a 1951 record frequently called "the first rock and roll song" (and for that matter all of Ike Turner's work except for that over-the-top Spector collaboration—talk about a seminal figure!).

And there's no Minutemen. Grr.
posted by languagehat at 1:53 PM on November 19, 2003

They have Beastie Boys, but no Tom Waits? No Cure? No Jam/Paul Weller? No Nick Drake?

Oh well. I suppose I should be grateful for Huey Lewis's exclusion. Although I don't know anybody who has done more to encourage the relentless deluge of crappy adult contemporary into radio and music stores. Bring that honky's head in a box, and bring it now. A special spot awaits in hell for him and his brethren, The News.
posted by ed at 1:53 PM on November 19, 2003

p.s. As for The Pixies, rock had finished being 'influenced' long before they showed up in the late 80s.

Then how do you explain all the late80's/early 90's hip hop on the list? Hip hop was what I zeroed in on, as I was interested in how much rock historians care about it. They did an OK job. I'd give them a B- were it not for the unforgiveable exception of M.C. Hammer, “U Can't Touch This”, which drops them to a D. MC Hammer was a big fat nasty swollen leech on the neck of music, the diametric opposite of an "influencer." (Also, there's no Tribe Called Quest on there.)
posted by badstone at 1:54 PM on November 19, 2003

Only one Mothers of Invention/Zappa song? Criminal!
posted by ed at 1:55 PM on November 19, 2003

What's most interesting here (in the thread as well as the list) is, to traduce Harold Bloom's famous phrase, the anxiety of (defining) influence. In the context of popular music, it probably means performances and, above all, productions (more than songs) that were widely imitated, downright copied or, more generally, improved upon or used as part of a different hybrid.

It's quite difficult, when judging influence, to forget quality or personal likes and dislikes. A lot of very influential records spawned monsters while a lot of superb songs produced no creative descendents.

So (ed) I kind of understand that they'd forget Tom Waits - much as I love them. On the other hand, in terms of attitude and making people make records with no hang-ups and a full-blown personality, he was probably extremely influential.

In other words, a lot of artists inspired others to start writing and recording, although their stylistic influence is much smaller.

Difficult call!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 2:16 PM on November 19, 2003

501. The Raspberries, "Go All The Way"
502. The Zombies, "Time of the Season"

My $0.02.
posted by LinusMines at 2:19 PM on November 19, 2003

As for The Pixies, rock had finished being 'influenced' long before they showed up in the late 80s.

Weird. I was listening to Modest Mouse on my way in this morning, thinking, "Isaac must have had a collection of Pixies records as a kid and not much else."
posted by yerfatma at 2:22 PM on November 19, 2003

Ah, tlong beat me to pointing out that Janis Joplin is inexcusably omitted from the list.

"The Authority Song" is the one John Mellencamp song on the list? I would have chosen either "Jack and Diane" or "Pink Houses" well ahead of that.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 2:38 PM on November 19, 2003

I'd like to see somebody try to make a list of songs that are actual rock n roll. Not "[insert descriptive word here] rock" or the many near infinite variations from hard rock to soft rock to adult contemporary.

Songs that define true rock n roll in its purest form. Songs that everyone, regardless of who they are or where they come from, would objectively agree that X was actual bonafide rock n roll.

Bill Haley's Rock Around The Clock
Chuck Berry's Johnny Be Good
Carl Perkins' Blue Suede Shoes
Ray Charles' What's Goin On
Jerry Lee Lewis' Great Balls of Fire
Elvis Presley's Hound Dog
Buddy Holly's Peggy Sue

It's not as easy as it sounds, to make such a list, without it being debatable. Such lists just aren't authoritative. I'm not gonna hold my breath, but if successful, that'd be a list that actually meant something.
posted by ZachsMind at 2:39 PM on November 19, 2003

Back in the 60s and 70s women had very little real participation in almost all forms of public life in America.. True dat. But this list goes up to at least 1997! And if all those 480 boys were really so influential, why the fuck do i hear Britny fucking Spear This every fucking where I go?

I'm gonna go make some noise.
posted by DenOfSizer at 2:52 PM on November 19, 2003

Den: You consider Britney rock?

As for others of you: Did you miss the word "influential"?
posted by mischief at 3:00 PM on November 19, 2003

As for The Pixies, rock had finished being 'influenced' long before they showed up in the late 80s

Then why is the 90's song Smells Like Teen Spirit is on the list, considering Kurt Cobain stated he wrote the song to be a Pixies rip-off track? Leaving the Pixies out is poor form indeed.

(Also, where's Siouxsie?)
posted by Jairus at 3:17 PM on November 19, 2003

where's Siouxsie?

On the new Basement Jaxx album. And on the street in your mind.
posted by yerfatma at 3:22 PM on November 19, 2003

I would never place London Calling (a great record) above White Man In Hammersmith Palais (pure, unbridled pop genius), In it's melding of punk, reggae and blues, it's nigh on unique. To come in the middle of 1977's England, when punk's 100mph thrash was de rigeur, it was courageous. And to keep Joe Strummer's semi-deliberate giggle(* - here) in the mix at the line

"The ne-e-ew groups are not concerned
with what there is to be learned
They got Burton* suits -
Huh -
Ya think it's funny
Turning rebellion into money.

Timeless commentary on the rock n roll scene.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:23 PM on November 19, 2003

Van Halen's Eruption should be on the list, because it hugely influenced the zillions of shedders that followed.

The omissions of the Pixies and Pavement are huge.

They picked the wrong Husker Du song and the wrong Replacement song and the wrong Sonic Youth song, as far as what wsa influential.

They should have put Spinal Tap on the list, because they did influence the Rock scene by skewering it so well.

In general, a big problem with this list is that several artists have multiple songs listed when one would suffice. Did all 4 Muddy Waters songs have an influence? No - they all sound pretty much the same. Same with the Stones. Smae with Heart of Gold and Down By the River. The Beatles songs they list at least have different styles, and thus could be different influences.
posted by trigfunctions at 3:33 PM on November 19, 2003

As for others of you: Did you miss the word "influential"?

That's another problem with the list. It's reasonable to identify groups or individuals who are influential. It's much harder to pick out individual songs which are influential.

Sure, Diana Ross and the Supremes (to take one example) were influential. Now, which one of their songs was influential? Why choose that song over any of their others? Can you name any subsequent music or artists that were clearly influenced by that one specific song, as opposed to their overall style?

And yes, for a handful of exceptionally groundbreaking songs the case can be made for claiming that one song alone was influential. ("I Want to Hold Your Hand," "Smells Like Teen Spirit") But in the majority of cases, I don't think it's useful or even possible to pick out one particular song of an artist as especially influential, compared to the artist's entire body of work.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 3:41 PM on November 19, 2003

As for The Pixies, rock had finished being 'influenced' long before they showed up in the late 80s

Yeah, this line caught my eye too. There are so many errors in this line of reasoning I'm not sure how to begin. Are you saying the Pixies did not influence rock music? Or are you saying rock music had become a static form by the late 1980's that was no longer open to be influenced?

If so, both assertions are wronggitywronggity-wrong!
posted by elwoodwiles at 4:09 PM on November 19, 2003

The Searchers, “Needles and Pins” - good to see that under-rated classic in there, too.
posted by dash_slot- at 4:30 PM on November 19, 2003

I also miss anything at all by Simon, Theodore and Alvin. Not a single track off my alltime favorite albun, Chipmunk Punk. I fear this list was made up by one of those drearies who Take Rock Seriously.
posted by jfuller at 4:40 PM on November 19, 2003

i haven't even gone through the whole list yet, but I saw Big Star's "September Gurls" and I was all like, YES!

Big Star rocks.
posted by nath at 4:44 PM on November 19, 2003

Only one Mothers of Invention/Zappa song? Criminal!

Amen, brother, amen. Also, only "Pretty Woman" by Orbison, that's just scratching the surface.

What can you say? It's a list. Glad to see they picked up on pre-rock 'n roll people like Louis Jordan, tho.
posted by groundhog at 4:49 PM on November 19, 2003

and only one Parliament!
posted by badstone at 5:25 PM on November 19, 2003

Interesting to note that artists / bands who start with either B, C, D, M, R or S are the most prevelant. A quick glance over to the wall of vinyl LP's that causes such a bone of contention in my house shows that by far the largest group is bands beginning with S (yes, I have alphabetacized my collection. I'm on the internet, is that really so surprising?).

Is musical genius / influence conected with artists who choose these letters? Do the great and the good gravitate toward bands starting with B? And why does S appear to be such a rock and roll letter? (note: in my house the specials are classed under S, otherwise T woudl rule. Obviously).
posted by ciderwoman at 5:27 PM on November 19, 2003

In general, a big problem with this list is that several artists have multiple songs listed when one would suffice. Did all 4 Muddy Waters songs have an influence? No - they all sound pretty much the same. Same with the Stones. Smae with Heart of Gold and Down By the River

I disagree. For example, Heart of Gold's influence can be traced mainly thru singers/songwriters and country-rock bands; Down by the River was a 3-chord Crazy Horse power dirge that influenced a different set of artists.

As for Muddy Waters, each of those songs was like a genre onto itself. Listen more closely.
posted by groundhog at 5:44 PM on November 19, 2003

No Nick Drake?

I agree, a crime has been committed here, next list please.
posted by m@ at 5:49 PM on November 19, 2003

...Janis Joplin is inexcusably omitted from the list...

As a solo artist, yes, but her amazing performance with Big Brother and the Holding Company on “Piece of My Heart” is there.

I'd argue that Massive Attack should be here somewhere - probably for "Safe From Harm" or "Unfinished Sympathy." And while I'm not a big fan of obsessively sticking everything into sub-genres, those early singles were responsible in many ways for the "trip-hop" sound, which is still being mined by Zero-7, Lamb, Mono, Morcheeba, etc.
posted by pjhagop at 6:45 PM on November 19, 2003

...by far the largest group is bands beginning with S...

That's funny - I usually head straight to the "S" section of used record and CD store to see how their selection is. For some reason, the quality of the "S" bin often predicts the whole selection.
posted by pjhagop at 6:50 PM on November 19, 2003

One obvious miss is Chic's "Good Times" - the bass riff was later used in "Rapper's Delight" and "The Adventures of Grandmaster Flash on the Wheels of Steel". (Is it possible they misremembered this as "Le Freak"?)
Blue Cheer - "Summertime Blues"
Vanilla Fudge - "You Keep Me Hanging On" (I HATE them by the way, but one must give credit ...)
Laura Nyro - "Stoned Soul Picnic", "Wedding Bell Blues" (she used polychords and pedal point in pop in a way that hadn't been done before, but soon became common)
UB40 - "Red Red Wine" (the toast-style rap was a first for Top 40, now common)
Faith No More - "Epic"
Cher - "I Believe" (that robot voice is going to be with us a LONG time, folks)
posted by pyramid termite at 10:04 PM on November 19, 2003

Great detective work, pyramid termite!

"Good Times" is, in terms of its massive influence, indeed an unpardonable omission - but so are the others.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 11:00 PM on November 19, 2003

As for The Pixies, rock had finished being 'influenced' long before they showed up in the late 80s.

Then how do you explain all the late80's/early 90's hip hop on the list?

I don't think they should be there either. It's a rock list, by the curator of the rock museum, not a rap or hip hop list. Stuff in museums is (mostly) dead and/or fossilized. Doesn't mean it's no good any more, it's just over.

Yeah, this line caught my eye too. There are so many errors in this line of reasoning I'm not sure how to begin. Are you saying the Pixies did not influence rock music? Or are you saying rock music had become a static form by the late 1980's that was no longer open to be influenced?

If so, both assertions are wronggitywronggity-wrong!

I guess I was aiming closer to the latter. I've been reading a massive history of rock called Sonic Cool, where Joe S. Harrington writes that if you look at rock and roll like the Bible (it's a spiritual thing with him), punk is the dividing line between the Old and New Testaments. The purpose of this list, as I think it should have been intended, is to show where the original prophets came from. It's completely wrong to leave out Hank Williams, and songs like "Rocket 88," but people like Queen Latiifah and Kurt Cobain don't belong here.

They maybe influenced a lot, but not rock. After punk, as Harrington says, rock and roll "would fragment into so many subcategories that there was no longer any consensus even as to what [it] actually was. . . But if they continue to call it rock, they're clutching onto something that no longer exists."

Anyway, that's just my idea(s). I could be wrong . . . and I have been, many times. It's a thrill, though, for once to be wronggitywronggity-wrong! Thanks elwoodwiles.

P.S. By the way, the Pixies aren't on that other list mentioned by ZachsMind, either. Maybe they can do a better job getting noticed when they make their great comeback!
posted by LeLiLo at 11:14 PM on November 19, 2003

Duran Duran but no Spandau Ballet? No Madness?

Massive Attack's Unfinished Sympathy wasn't influential?

Nothing from Primal Scream, Happy Mondays or Stone Roses.

Can I also remind listeners that Paul McCartney sucks dead dogs bellends.
posted by biffa at 6:08 AM on November 20, 2003

The perennial question occurs once more for me:

How many of those commenting here play a musical instrument?

It should be a matter of record.
posted by y2karl at 12:52 PM on November 20, 2003

How many of those commenting here play a musical instrument?

I play a variety of percussion-type things, from piano and electronic keyboards and xylophones to drums, timbales, cowbells, wood blocks, etc. etc. Plus various simple flutes, recorders, pennywhistles, and so on. On my own for decades, and in a variety of bands since 1998. I'm not sure, though, that 'musical' would be the operative word in my case.

But why should only musicians comment on music? Shouldn't the question be: "How many of you have ears?" Or "How many of you aren't deaf?"
posted by LeLiLo at 2:29 PM on November 20, 2003

But why should only musicians comment on music?

I don't believe I said that anywhere.
posted by y2karl at 2:40 PM on November 20, 2003

I don't believe I said that anywhere.

No, for some reason you only implied it. If my car explodes because of an incompetent mechanic, can I not complain until I learn how to fix cars myself?
posted by yerfatma at 5:42 PM on November 20, 2003

Sorry, but your telepathy is on the bonk today.
Put words in someone else's mouth, if you pl3ease..
posted by y2karl at 10:43 PM on November 20, 2003

How many of those commenting here play a musical instrument?

I'll bite then, if you weren't implying only musicians are placed to comment, why did you ask for the above to be a matter of record?
posted by biffa at 3:30 AM on November 21, 2003

Because I think it is an interesting question.
posted by y2karl at 7:59 AM on November 21, 2003

How odd then that you should frame it thus;

It should be a matter of record.
posted by biffa at 8:46 AM on November 21, 2003

Well, I'd like to know and I am not telepathic.
posted by y2karl at 9:00 AM on November 21, 2003