iPod's Dirty Secret

November 24, 2003 10:41 AM

iPod's Dirty Secret (Links to a page with an emdedded Quicktime movie.) Can anyone confirm or debunk this?
posted by badstone (85 comments total)

If you don't want to or can't download the video, the bottom line is that once your iPod battery dies, the only way to get a new one is to spend $255 to have Apple "refurbish" it since the battery is internal. In this guy's case, the battery died after 18 months.
posted by badstone at 10:44 AM on November 24, 2003

Ipodbattery.com.

Next.
posted by mecran01 at 10:46 AM on November 24, 2003

Yeah, there are replacement batteries out there mercran01, but you do void the warranty by opening up your iPod. It's no small task to replace or fix your battery I hear.
posted by mathowie at 10:48 AM on November 24, 2003

I've had my iPod (their 1st model) since the first week they've been available. Battery works fine. *shrug*
posted by gwint at 10:50 AM on November 24, 2003

Apple has begun an Apple Care plan for the iPod that extends the original 90-day warranty to 2 years for $59.
posted by JVey at 10:50 AM on November 24, 2003

iPod Users Get Official Battery Replacement (at Slashdot)
posted by Guy Smiley at 10:50 AM on November 24, 2003

Ipodbattery.com.

Next.

Being condescending makes you uber cool.
posted by tomorama at 10:52 AM on November 24, 2003

The default iPod warranty is now 1 year, jvey.
posted by machaus at 10:55 AM on November 24, 2003

There are a couple of options. Like any electronic device, batteries are the Achille's Heel. The downside is like mathowie said, changing a batteriy on an iPod is it isn't like the proverbial AAA.
posted by pedantic at 10:57 AM on November 24, 2003

My original 5gig iPod still works fine after 2 years. Glad to see this new $59 Apple Care option, though.
posted by jragon at 10:58 AM on November 24, 2003

People rave about the cool, user-friendly iPod design... but how user-friendly is a design that requires an expensive factory visit for something as predictable as a battery change? How much harder could it have been to use a clip-on battery like a typical PDA or cell phone?
posted by Tubes at 11:02 AM on November 24, 2003

All I know is the Creative Nomad Jukebox 3 is $100 cheaper than a comparable disk size Ipod, can record at higher quality than a DAT tape (!), and although it may be about the size of a CD player you can remove the original battery or add a 2nd one for 22 hours of music playback.
posted by Keyser Soze at 11:10 AM on November 24, 2003

Ipodbattery.com.

Next.

Well, at least the video was cleverly produced, IMHO. Nice soundrack. :) Nonetheless, I'm not rushing to make myself a stencil. Meanwhile, I'll keep using my clunky, cheap 2 year old mp3 player that doesn't deliver the cosmic User Experience but only needs AA's.
posted by badstone at 11:12 AM on November 24, 2003

From their web server: Last-Modified: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 19:45:31 GMT

I wonder why this guy hasn't updated his site mentioning the new official $99 Apple replacement deal, or the cheaper unofficial replacements. His beef with Apple is with them not telling the whole story, so he might as well tell the whole story as well.

Also, the "void your warranty" argument is moot - if still had your warranty, Apple would replace the battery for free. The "no small task" argument is quite valid, however.
posted by zsazsa at 11:13 AM on November 24, 2003

This is becoming a trend with gadgets. The Sidekick battery is internal and only lasts so many recharges. Off the top of my head I know the Neuros MP3 player/recorder has an internal battery, I'm sure there are others.

The working assumption is that you're going to replace the thing in two years or its built so badly that it'll break down before the battery does yet after the warranty expires. Its a cost/benefit analysis: why pay extra to manufacture a removable battery compartment when its cheaper to do it this way?

That said, I don't like this trend. Its forced obsolence and considering the rip-off the iPod is, it should be able to last a few years.
posted by skallas at 11:14 AM on November 24, 2003

what Tubes said. what Tubes said, squared.
somebody should just tattoo that comment on Steve Jobs's forehead (and this from a happy early-adopter of the iPod)

Glad to see this new $59 Apple Care option, though.
yeah, glad to see them operate like a crime family -- buy protection from us and we'll fix the problem we created in the first place
posted by matteo at 11:20 AM on November 24, 2003

You're treating this like Apple wants batteries to break down so they can make more money. I think the reality is that they realized some users (a small minority) were having battery problems, so they realized they should provide a warrenty longer than the existing one year.

If a battery is $50 and they're giving you two years of full service for $59, that's hardly reaching the levels of the Godfather. Apple might have goofed, but this is about the best solution in the short term. Long term, they'll provide the ability to pop out the battery. Done.
posted by jragon at 11:26 AM on November 24, 2003

Have you alll forgotten that the nomad jukebox 3 is $100 cheaper and has 2 removable battery compartments?!
posted by Keyser Soze at 11:37 AM on November 24, 2003

The real point is that for all of Apple's vaunted product design skills, this is a clear problem.

An expensive device like an iPod should have a simple method for owners to replace their own battery.

The official Apple battery replacement service is $99 and you DO NOT get your old iPod back. You get someone else's old iPod instead. From apple.com -> 'iPod equipment that is sent in for battery service or service requiring other repairs will be replaced with functionally equivalent new, used, or refurbished iPod equipment. You will not receive the same iPod that was sent in for service.'

Hardly an ideal solution. Apple gets a pass from Mac/iPod lovers out of blind loyalty. I can only imagine the uproar if Microsoft or Dell pulled a similar goof.
posted by Argyle at 11:39 AM on November 24, 2003

As usual, Apple products are engineered against upgrades and improvements. This is nothing more than a way for Apple to help out it's bottom line.

In this category see:

- Special Apple memory
- All Macs with built in monitors
- Early iMacs
- iTunes songs (three broken Apple computers and yer outta there!)

It's one of the multiple reasons a lot of techies hate Apple; and also one of the reasons we wonder why Apple products seem to be the choice of the "environmentally responsible".

Nothing could be much more environmentally irresponsible than making it difficult for the owner of a product to repair an item that *should* be user replaceable.

Reasons like these are also why I use an MP3 CD player. Nothing beats the simplicity of charging a couple of double AAs and popping in a new CD.
posted by shepd at 11:40 AM on November 24, 2003

I've heard the real dirty secret is that the ipod is made of soylent green.
posted by Peter H at 11:48 AM on November 24, 2003

I like my iPod.
posted by sklero at 11:54 AM on November 24, 2003

But Peter H.....Soylent Green is People!
posted by paddbear at 12:01 PM on November 24, 2003

shepd:

FUD, FUD, FUD!

All macs use standard memory modules. All of them.

All macs do not have built in monitors, only some of them.

Early iMacs *can* be upgraded. You can actually get G4s into some models, as well as ram, HD, superdrives, etc.

I've had my auth-count reset on the Apple Music Store. No problem. I told them I sold a machine without deauthorizing and they fixed it via email within two hours.

Oh, and I know of three original 5GB iPods still working fine. Mine was stolen, but I like to think that it is still working somewhere for someone.

ALSO, all laptops use the same battery tech and have the same battery cycle lifetime. ALL of them, even ones that run your operating system. I happen to know that a replacement battery for a Thinkpad X20 is $199 list and is not covered under the same 3 year warrantee as the rest of the unit. Maybe you should take some of your shuddering outrage towards that issue as well. Point is that battery tech sucks and needs to get better.

Or is this just yet another irrational MeFi Apple-smear?
posted by n9 at 12:04 PM on November 24, 2003

"...I use an MP3 CD player. Nothing beats the simplicity of charging a couple of double AAs and popping in a new CD."

Er... ditto.
posted by Blue Stone at 12:08 PM on November 24, 2003

I have a generation one 10GB iPod and have had absolutely no problems with the battery. I still get 8+ hours out of it.
(and it still fast charges in an hour to 80% capacity!)
posted by cinderful at 12:09 PM on November 24, 2003

Make sure you're linking to something on the web. If you're posting a generalized question to the audience, or posting a comment as a main thread, either find an appropriate mailing list, or use MetaTalk.

That being said, I thought the movie itself was a nice little piece of documentary about a man-vs-monolith situation. Use a little counter-advertising.

Apple has never been overly hot on the idea of people cracking open their own cases, very hand-holdy in that regard.
posted by Ogre Lawless at 12:10 PM on November 24, 2003

despite my anti apple-user stance, i bought an ipod about a week ago, and am days away from it being shipped to my doorstep... if i'd researched more, this probably would've steered my decision towards another player.

yes, i was also one of those idiots who got their library mismanaged when trying out itunes.

why do i do this to myself...
posted by lotsofno at 12:10 PM on November 24, 2003

lotsofno: you will love your iPod. Because it's really good.
posted by hammurderer at 12:20 PM on November 24, 2003

All macs use standard memory modules. All of them.

I seem to recall old PowerMacs being a bitch for using 5V EDO DIMMS. Perhaps I'm wrong. However, while we wanted to upgrade those machines for our college, all the memory companies wanted outrageous prices because "They're *those* machines".

Yup, this is them. God I hate Macs. $319 to upgrade the machine to 128 MB, and I have a *BAG* of 16 MB 72 pin simms using the same chips sitting beside me that was given to me for FREE.

All macs do not have built in monitors, only some of them.

That's why I mentioned all macs that use built in monitors, which is the vast majority I've seen and used.

Early iMacs *can* be upgraded.

They can, only at great knuckle scraping expense. Even harder than fixing an iPod battery.

I've had my auth-count reset on the Apple Music Store. No problem. I told them I sold a machine without deauthorizing and they fixed it via email within two hours.

Cool. So when Apple finally goes out of business or quits the iTunes gig, what do you do then?

ALSO, all laptops use the same battery tech and have the same battery cycle lifetime. ALL of them, even ones that run your operating system.

True. That's why on every single laptop I've used the instructions for replacing the battery consist of:

- Push battery lock tab (labelled)
- Remove battery
- Insert new battery

They aren't:

- Send laptop to manufacturer, where they will consequently junk it as necessary and send you a replacement.

That's not cool from the "environmental" stance. Wasted gas, and wasted units on top of the battery.

Or is this just yet another irrational MeFi Apple-smear?

No, I carefully choose which companies I don't like. Apple has a lot of "coverups" it's zealots like to ignore. Like the PowerMac memory issue. That was a real winner. And the "Let's be hippies and throw away our computer when it's broken rather than fix it like a good consumer should" subliminal advertising for their multitudes of built in monitor machines.
posted by shepd at 12:27 PM on November 24, 2003

the movie was brilliant viral marketing of an idea.
posted by stbalbach at 12:30 PM on November 24, 2003

I don't own an iPod, but I think stenciling is pretty cool.
posted by bonheur at 12:36 PM on November 24, 2003

Make sure you're linking to something on the web.

Wow, it sure looked like it was on the web when I looked at it. Was it actually Arpa-Net or something?
posted by badstone at 12:43 PM on November 24, 2003

Just to add my experience.. my first generation iPod, which I bought from my friend, has been in use since October 2001 or whenever the iPods were first introduced, and I haven't had any battery problems.
posted by tittergrrl at 12:46 PM on November 24, 2003

Mine was stolen, but I like to think that it is still working somewhere for someone.

That's pretty damned magnanimous.
posted by rushmc at 12:46 PM on November 24, 2003

So when Apple finally goes out of business or quits the iTunes gig, what do you do then?

Well, presumably you'd just get in your jet-car and go buy your Universal Music Wafer that contains all songs ever recorded (updated continuously via quantum wireless). Then go to work for two or three minutes to earn the money you need to pay for it.
posted by kindall at 12:47 PM on November 24, 2003

No, I carefully choose which companies I don't like.

Not carefully enough, if that's your memory vendor. Try here. $26.95 for the same stick, and OWC is quality stuff - I've used nothing else for the last 7 years or so.
posted by jalexei at 12:47 PM on November 24, 2003

shedp:

PowerMac memory:
Very true.
$319 to upgrade to 128. Right.
in 1996
Memory prices were much higher then.
Yes, the 5V DIMMs WERE more expensive than usual then.
They were not ridiculously high.
Besides - it's 2003 now. Apple learned the non-standard memory lesson and uses standard RAM in their machines.

iMac:
I added ram to a generation 2 iMac without looking at instructions.
It took me 15 minutes.
It was not hard.
No, it's not a consumer job. But for most consumers, opening the little cable slot in those iMacs is too much for them.

iTunes:
So what if Napster goes out of business?
So what if any of these new music selling places go out of business?
We don't know. This is a new thing.
You can burn your tracks to CD anyway.

laptop:
Apple laptops have easily removable batteries.

iPods are not laptops.

iMac monitors:
I worked in an on-campus computer store for 2 1/2 years. We mostly sold Macs. a TON of iMacs.
I never once saw a single iMac with a dead monitor.
(we also took machines in for service)

By the time those things die - they'll be severly outdated anyway. And there are places that recycle computer parts.
posted by cinderful at 12:56 PM on November 24, 2003

72 pin simms??

Well your attitude seems to be based on hardware made in 1994 or before. Just a little heads up, that's about 10 years ago.

And who throws away their broken computer? From what I recall from being a repairperson, you can have your mac repaired. And, last I heard the average PC is kept in service less than *half* the time as an average Mac and the average Mac's resale value is much higher than the PCs, indicating a much longer use cycle.

But anyway, I thought your outrage was sourced in people having to pay $99 for a new iPod battery to be installed or $49 for a battery to install themselves which is why I brought up the $199 laptop battery issue. But it seems like your beef is total and complete and you present a diamond hard surface to any notion that sane people buy Apple product and enjoy it. I'm sorry that the world is hurtful to you and things are so unfair. Lucky for me I don't drink the same kool-aid as you!

Maybe this would be a good time to mention that Apple will at least properly dispose of a beat battery, unlike what happens to most comsumer-replaced batteries. You know, when they get into the drinking water supply and possibly make you a caustic perpetually grumpt Mefi goer. Hmmm. How many batteries did you say you've been throwing into your trash?
posted by n9 at 12:56 PM on November 24, 2003

Why get the bulky Nomad Jukebox 3 when the Nomad Zen NX and Xtra models also have user replaceable batteries? Last time I checked, the things go longer on one charge than the batteries in an iPod, too.
posted by punishinglemur at 1:08 PM on November 24, 2003

"...and when I listen to my new iPod, I enjoy a nice cold glass of Pepsi Blue! Pepsi Blue, the choice of a new generation!"
just kidding. im just jealous because i can't afford an iPod right now
posted by keswick at 1:08 PM on November 24, 2003

*shrug* I got my 10GB first generation iPod as a graduation present two and a half years ago and it has survived numerous wipings by airport security machines, being dropping onto every surface imaginable, and while I had to "upgrade" it myself (therefore perhaps voiding my own warranty anyway) to be Windows compatible, it still gives me eight solid hours of playback and charges in less than an hour.

Even if it is a design flaw, I'm getting exactly what I want out of the thing, and it's lasted much much longer than every discman I've ever owned, so in all honesty I'll probably go out any buy myself a new one when Horace eventually bites the dust. Nothing electronic lasts forever anyway, even with replaceable batteries
posted by nelleish at 1:15 PM on November 24, 2003

My iPod bought about 10 months back is working a-ok. I do tend to use up more power than most people because I tend to skip songs a lot using the remote rather than fiddling with the iPod to pick a song I wouldn't mind hearing at that particular moment.
posted by riffola at 1:18 PM on November 24, 2003

I've owned three iPods since they came out (long story, not at all related to defects or anything). My second unit is at least 18 months old and still cranks. I hear my first gen, first batch 5GB still works but its new owner upgraded so he doesn't use it much. I've put these units through lots of hell, too, as I commute on Muni. And they have been dropped.

The only battery trouble I had was firmware related, solved with the update that gave you 10 days of power (forgot the number). I too shuffle my library, and my latest Pod (an overstock Windows version on a Mac, go fig) hums along.
posted by marzenie99 at 1:41 PM on November 24, 2003

Ever since iTunes was released for Windows I’d been planning on buying an iPod to replace my ageing Nomad Jukebox. This thread has killed that idea. A swappable battery is right near the top of my list of required features for a portable mp3 player. Looks like it’s the Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra for me.
posted by Tenuki at 1:45 PM on November 24, 2003

If you're not already sold on the iPod, I suggest the iRiver IHP-1xx series. I just did a *ton* of research on harddrive MP3 players and I think it is easily the best on the market (YMMV, of course, especially if you're not Mac-centric). Review here and here. FWIW, the iPod was my second choice.

It's a USB mass storage device, even for music, unlike the iPod, Zen and Rio. All the others require you to put music on the drive with their software and/or install drivers just to use the thing. A big PITA.

It has up to 16 hr battery life, much more than iPods.

It comes with an LCD remote, FM radio and digital recording to WAV or MP3. Even plays OGG format.

It's 0.1" wider and 0.14" deeper than an iPod, which are both much smaller than the Nomad Zens.

According to this review, sound quality with the iRiver is *much* better than the iPod.

Cons: pricey, not firewire for you Mac-folk, built-in battery (however, I hear the battery has a 3000-recharge life. if you used it 8 hrs/day, charging every other day, the battery would still live for over 15 years).
posted by turbodog at 2:09 PM on November 24, 2003

The only regret I have about my iPod is that I didn't buy a bigger capacity one (I have a 15gb). I have had every mp3 player type imaginable (cd-based, 9mm hd based, sd card, soundsgood module, memory stick...) and the iPod kicks all their asses, hands down. I've still kept my iRiver imp350, hooked up to the stereo in the living room. It's an excellent CD-based player but for portability it doesn't compare to the iPod.

I've never met anyone who owned an iPod and then switched to a different mp3 player. On the other hand, almost everyone I know that's had a non-iPod keeps going on the search for a better unit... till they get an iPod.

Those above who say that the iPod should have an easily removable battery like "a palm pilot" haven't bought a palm pilot in a while. Not all of the high end ones do not have removable batteries. I've had a Clie and still have a Tungsten T. They both have built in batteries. They also take much longer than the iPod to charge and last a lot less time.

On preview: Tenuki: there doesn't seem to be a single negative review of the iPod from anyone in the thread who actually owns one. I don't understand how you could read the thread and be disuaded. Good luck with yer zen though.
posted by dobbs at 2:14 PM on November 24, 2003

I've not had a battery problem on my 2G iPod although my wife's 1G iPod likes to die now and then. A quick internet search and I was cracking open the case like a seasoned geek, disconnecting and reconnecting the battery and what do you know? A new lease on life.

We're well past the warranty so opening the iPod is not an issue and it is actually quite easy (as long as you overcome the fear of a minor blemish -- not an issue for me since our iPods are scratched to within an inch of their lives.

Do rechargeable AA's have an unlimited recharging life? I ask because I've never used them. What I like about the iPod is why I bought it; what I did not like had no impact. To each his/her own.

On preview: checking on Turbodog's links...

Aside: I just bought a multiple cordless handset Panasonic phone. I happen to also have a B&O set with similar features in a different undisclosed location. The B&O phone costs twice as much, has no discernable way of replacing the battery and is short on some features or has other features that I do not use. Problem is, I love it. The user interface is remarkably superior and if it only came with a two line model I would have bought another.
posted by Dick Paris at 2:16 PM on November 24, 2003

turbodog, i just read some of your reviews... though i like iRiver, the review at austinv lists lockups, crashes, garbled text on the display, and "files ended up in randomly named folders after crash occurred". Though I haven't done searches for iPod reviews, my own has never crashed, been garbled, or locked up. And the only thing "random" about it is the shuffle feature.
posted by dobbs at 2:26 PM on November 24, 2003

Ogre Lawless: Apple has never been overly hot on the idea of people cracking open their own cases, very hand-holdy in that regard.

True for their consumer systems, absolutely false for their PowerMacs. Since the old beige G3s (and even before that) all you had to do to get at your computer's innards was to push a button/pull a latch and open the side of the case like a door. Doesn't get any easier than that.

As for the whole battery thing, almost all of the recent PDAs I've encountered have built-in li-ion batteries as well. My Palm, along with a number of the WinCE models we have around the office have inaccessible batteries.
posted by mzanatta at 2:29 PM on November 24, 2003

dobbs: The lack of a swappable battery is the deal killer for me. Other than that I love the iPod & iTunes, but I need the ability to go 20-40 hours without the need to recharge.
posted by Tenuki at 2:38 PM on November 24, 2003

Apropos of nothing: I was amused to note in the Two Towers "stuff" that Jackson/WETA et al used iPods to transport entire digital copies of the film from one physical location to another when they couldn't get enough bandwidth to send it directly....... That, to me, is a strong endorsement of trust.
posted by anastasiav at 2:55 PM on November 24, 2003

Lots of Apple trolls just using this pretty stupid concern as a means to tee off on Apple.

I've been using my iPod all day everyday since I got it. I use it on the charger at work and on the battery at home most of the time. The battery lasts a long time, the machine works flawlessly and yet there are still people out there griping about it.

If you don't want an iPod then don't buy one but don't set up strawmen just so you can knock them over with your ninja side kicks.

Its a tremendously well designed product and I'm buying another one (much bigger as the 10 gig's full to the brim now) and will pass along the old on to my wife. If only a tenth of the products out there were designed as well as the iPod.
posted by fenriq at 3:03 PM on November 24, 2003

By the time I'll need to crack the case on my 30gb ipod to change the battery the one year warranty will have long expired - I don't see how I need to worry about voiding the warranty. Bitching about that just seems silly.

You can manage the life of your iPod battery anyway - from what I understand full discharge/recharge cycles are bad for the ipod batteries. Don't let it completely discharge, keep it plugged in whenever you can and it should last for quite awhile. I read it on the internet so it must be true - something about wearing out the electrodes if you discharge it all the way.
posted by L. Ron McKenzie at 3:05 PM on November 24, 2003

"but don't set up strawmen just so you can knock them over with your ninja side kicks."

that sounds awesome.. why wouldn't anyone want to do that?
posted by lotsofno at 3:20 PM on November 24, 2003

i just got my ipod this weekend (40g). and frankly i expected longer battery useage.. how long should mine last?
posted by Duck_Lips at 3:27 PM on November 24, 2003

Yeah, just ignore my previous posts and put me on the 'strawmen getting ninja kicked' side

and by cool i mean totally sweet
posted by cinderful at 3:37 PM on November 24, 2003

Looks like I'll be picking up an iPod after all. One of my motorcycle riding, iPod using friends just pointed this out to me. Looks like all those songs I bought on iTunes won’t go to waste.
posted by Tenuki at 3:45 PM on November 24, 2003

Duck_Lips -- I get about 7-9 hours on my 40GB iPod. i've had it for a month. I'm dissappointed it doesn't last longer, but them's the breaks. (I charge it everynight and run it down every day due to 6AM-11 PM school/work/walking/exercise combos)
posted by meanie at 3:45 PM on November 24, 2003

Wow, an awesome street-savvy protest video complete with culture-jamming, on the vital social issue of ...

...consumer awareness about iPod battery life? Conquest of Cool indeed. If you're going to get that passionate about an issue why not pick one that matters? It's not like it's difficult right now or anything.
posted by George_Spiggott at 3:46 PM on November 24, 2003

The Traditional Apple Thread

Poster: There's a problem with an Apple Product
Mac Lover: No there's not.
Mac Hater: Yes, there is. [insert details]
Mac Lover: That's a feature, not a problem
Mac Hater: It's a big problem [expand Apple complaint]
Mac Lover: OK, it's a problem, but I've never seen it.
Mac Hater: [Anecdotely evidence of problems]
Mac Lover: [detailed rebuttal]
Mac Hater: [counter rebuttal]
---> [rebuttal cycle continues 5-6 times]
Mac Lover: Regardless, Apple is wonderful.
Mac Hater: Apple is a cold hearted evil empire after your cash.
Mac Lover: Hater!
Mac Hater: Cultist!
Mac Lover: [leaves in a huff to go have a smoke]
Mac Hater: [leaves in a huff to go suck down caffiene]
posted by Argyle at 4:01 PM on November 24, 2003

9mm hd based

That so continues to weird me out. I remember back to the days when hard drive storage units were the size of washing machines. The idea that they now come in units so small you could swallow them just boggles me.
posted by five fresh fish at 4:26 PM on November 24, 2003

I was given an original 6G Nomad Jukebox about a year ago, brand new in the box. I used it for exactly two days, and put it back in the box. Slow, USB 1.1 only, and it loved to crash. A lot.

Four months ago, I got a 3rd-gen 10G iPod as a gift (from the same person who gave me the Nomac). Other than having to do a hardware reset out of the box (which is detailed in the manual), then a firmware upgrade and full charge, I've not had any problems with it. I use it 3-4 hours a day (listening to music at work). The battery life seemed a little wonky at first, but that went away after doing a full discharge/recharge cycle.
posted by mrbill at 4:35 PM on November 24, 2003

fff, it's 9mm thick, 2.5" wide and I don't know how long. You definitely couldn't swallow it. :) however, i understand toshiba is busy making 1" hard drives (the ipod uses the toshiba 1.8" drive) so maybe you won't have to go hungry after all.
posted by dobbs at 4:51 PM on November 24, 2003

I too love my iPod, even though its 5gig HD seems ultra tiny these days.

on preview: dobbs, have you seen those microdrives IBM makes? CompactFlash2 casing, and like 5 gigs of space. It'd be uncomfortable, but I bet you could swallow it. You know, if you needed to.
posted by bshort at 5:10 PM on November 24, 2003

go buy your Universal Music Wafer that contains all songs ever recorded (updated continuously via quantum wireless).

::: gets in line :::
posted by rushmc at 5:23 PM on November 24, 2003

I've hard a 3rd gen 10gig for a couple months now, and I've loved it. Never had any problems.
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 5:52 PM on November 24, 2003

But a superb video, in any case.

I'd love to buy an iPod. If only I still cared about music that much...
posted by ParisParamus at 6:06 PM on November 24, 2003

It's 9mm thick, 2.5" wide and I don't know how long. You definitely couldn't swallow it.

[refuses to touch this line]
posted by five fresh fish at 7:01 PM on November 24, 2003

I bought my ipod when it first came out and the battery DID die earlier this year. The Apple Store replaced it, no questions asked. Even though it was more than 18 months old. I was quite happy.

On the other hand, today I went to the Apple Store to buy a laser printer and the sign said HP LaserJet 1300 "$349!" And when they rang it up it rang up as $399. I said: "It says $349 on the sign." The guy said: "That's with the $50 rebate." "Oh," I said, "How do I get the rebate?" "You have to buy a computer with the printer."

THE END
posted by adrober at 8:13 PM on November 24, 2003

The trouble Apple has is their users are smart and picky enough to raise hell when there's a problem.

Most of the time it's stuff like mourning the loss of the happy mac in Jaguar, but sometimes it is something worthwhile.
posted by Space Coyote at 9:53 PM on November 24, 2003

I agree that the issue regarding macs and pcs is an argument I stand between on. In either case I want to accentuate the fact that there are still competitors in the marketplace that you can choose from. In particular, the most direct competitor, Creative Labs produces such products that are:

1. Cheaper

2. Easier to use and replace batteries.

Thst's my argument, from a direct music player perspective.
posted by Keyser Soze at 11:34 PM on November 24, 2003

Or is this just yet another irrational MeFi Apple-smear?


Well, someone has to counter all the insane apple boosting. Apple is just another corporation out to fuck you. You people act like it's god.
posted by delmoi at 12:01 AM on November 25, 2003

>You can burn your tracks to CD anyway.

What's the point of buying DRM music just to break the spirit of your contract?

May as well just enjoy Kazaa and be done with it.

>Apple laptops have easily removable batteries.

Yup, that's why I didn't include them in my argument. Overall, apple laptops are a solid product, marred only by running an OS that requires one to pay for security updates, and a lack of a second mouse button.

>I never once saw a single iMac with a dead monitor.

Exactly! So when the machine gets old, you're stuck with a perfectly good monitor (those PowerMacs *still* work) that can't be used on your next machine. That sucks, both for the consumer and for the "environment".

For comparison, about 90% of PC Purchasers re-use their monitors. The number would be higher if 1991 VGA monitors weren't relatively incompatible with windows XP.

>By the time those things die - they'll be severly outdated anyway. And there are places that recycle computer parts.

But not the monitors!

>Well your attitude seems to be based on hardware made in 1994 or before. Just a little heads up, that's about 10 years ago.

True. Things have only gone downhill since then. Integrated plasma displays and non-user-serviceable batteries? Yikes!

>it seems like your beef is total and complete and you present a diamond hard surface to any notion that sane people buy Apple product and enjoy it.

Give or take, yeah. I have beefs with a lot of PC hardware (just mention PC Chips or Acer!) but that tends to be muted by the fact one can get third party fixes easily enough (throw out the crapola motherboard and buy a decent one), whereas with a single source (Apple) you can just end up stuck with perma-crap.

>How many batteries did you say you've been throwing into your trash?

Why throw then into the trash when you can dispose of them in fire! :-)
posted by shepd at 12:10 AM on November 25, 2003

One mouse button troll has been mentioned, applegodwin smiles.
posted by Space Coyote at 12:27 AM on November 25, 2003

funny. i have a five-button (microsoft) mouse which i use with my powerbook. works just fine. and with exposé it's ultra-cool. i love apple. they are god.

also, had my 1st gen 5Gb iPod since back in the day - still works fine despite being dropped, kicked across a concrete floor and, the other day, shut in my car door. the HD whirrs a little loudly now, and the menu button is wedged in, but it still works. i kind of wish it would just die, already, so that i can buy a new one. oh, i'll just buy one anyway and give my old one to the wife, who always steals it to go running anyway.

i work for a company which sells loads of mp3 players ranging from el-cheapo korean numbers to Creative Zen NXs. I've tested/played with most of them, and none of them come close to the iPod. I'd recommend upgrading from the stock headphones, though. Unless you want fellow iPod users to recognise you on the train and make that subtle iPod-people acknowledgement...
posted by rikabel at 3:01 AM on November 25, 2003

As a business we still use Macs that are over 10 years old, they connect to the net via built-in ethernet, fetch email, browse the web, and operate the usual office applications. Not one component needed replacing in any of our machines.

I too use a first generation iPod and despite the abuse it's received including dropping it in a vase of water, it still functions well.

On the other hand, I've known PCs from Dell and others whose components died after several months of use.
posted by ericrolph at 5:54 AM on November 25, 2003

>funny. i have a five-button (microsoft) mouse which i use with my powerbook. works just fine. and with exposé it's ultra-cool. i love apple. they are god.

Cool! It's built in? No? That makes using that MS mouse pointless (for me) because it makes it impossible to use as a laptop!

If pointing out a usability fault makes me an applegodwiner, than that's what I am. Sure you can replace the mouse on a desktop mac, but, afaik, you can't replace the built in one on their laptops.

>i work for a company which sells loads of mp3 players ranging from el-cheapo korean numbers to Creative Zen NXs. I've tested/played with most of them, and none of them come close to the iPod.

Yup. But then again, at those prices, you can throw them away and get one that isn't broken rather than keep using something that is somewhat-broken (like your iPod).

>On the other hand, I've known PCs from Dell and others whose components died after several months of use.

I won't argue the components Apple makes are flimsy, just stupidly designed (read: Designed for aestetics over usability, the Quicktime application being the pinnacle of this) and way overpriced.
posted by shepd at 9:07 AM on November 25, 2003

shepd: why would use a laptop anyway, what with that built-in display. are you some throw away hippie? you are *something,* that's for sure. perhaps you should run for office so that you can utilize your unstoppable rhetoric and, uhm, acumen to do something other than discourage people from buying consumer electronics that you've been slighted by. They like the strawman in the politics, I've heard, and your insufferable trait of holding your subjective outlook to be obvoius and universal will slot you right into the club. :P
posted by n9 at 11:49 AM on November 25, 2003

What's the point of buying DRM music just to break the spirit of your contract?

One is encouraged to burn iTunes Music Store tracks to CD.
posted by sudama at 11:58 AM on November 25, 2003

oh, shit! I just realized that shepd's homepage is a PC sales firm. I guess I understand his issues now. :)
posted by n9 at 12:04 PM on November 25, 2003

designed for aestetics over usability, the quicktime application being the pinnacle of this

I know you're ranting, but compared to the other media player nightmares, the Quicktime player is the height of usability. Sure I preffered it before the chroming, but have you looked at the other monsters in the playpen?
posted by inpHilltr8r at 5:10 PM on November 25, 2003

Media Player Classic: function without form getting in the way, and it plays Real Media and Quicktime.
posted by turbodog at 11:38 PM on November 25, 2003

So, this thread has been completely derailed, but anyway, here's a link to some correspondence between the Neistats and a guy who hosted the video for them. Long story short: he's peeved and feels they're just using the video for their own publicity, refusing to post any information about the correct battery policy.
posted by bcwinters at 12:08 PM on November 28, 2003

Thanks for the followup, bcwinters. Originally I just thought the Neistats were ignorant, but your link proves that they're just morons with an agenda.
posted by dobbs at 2:46 PM on November 28, 2003