A trip to Grandma's house?
November 27, 2003 12:07 PM   Subscribe

Bush in Baghdad & Clinton in Kabul.

How far did you travel on this Thanksgiving Day?
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood (53 comments total)
 
So far I've walked to the kitchen.

Do I win?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:10 PM on November 27, 2003


Bush didn't even leave the airport. Pff
posted by delmoi at 12:11 PM on November 27, 2003


I have to qualify that. I snuck into the kitchen unannounced, after telling my wife I was going to the bathroom.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:24 PM on November 27, 2003


Re: the Bush visit to Baghdad: it was the least he could do. I hate to be cynical, but the 20 hour trip will probably be worth a couple of points in approval rating next week.

I am curious to how the right wing press will categorize these two visits. If I were to guess, I'd say: Gee W as the conquering c-in-c come to lift the troops' morale, and Hil the shameless opportunist/media hound.

posted by psmealey at 12:25 PM on November 27, 2003


psmealey: what did the visit cost the taxpayers? What were the real risks involved in the visit? Was that all worth it? Is it worth risking Cyborg Dick Cheney as President for a possible morale booster? Does being there make the war less of a quagmire?
posted by shagoth at 12:31 PM on November 27, 2003


Shagoth, in order -- This is a wild ass guess, but probably on the order of several million dollars; no idea; absolutely not (in fact, I might have been happier if they sent diamond dick over a C-30 instead); NFW.
posted by psmealey at 12:56 PM on November 27, 2003


doh. on a C-30... Although I wouldn't be opposed to sending the Veep OVER a C-30 either.
posted by psmealey at 12:58 PM on November 27, 2003


No danger to Hillary. Why would they want to attack a friend?
posted by HTuttle at 1:20 PM on November 27, 2003


Hey Bush, why not visit the dead?

Look, over there, 400 American flags draped in silent protest.
posted by the fire you left me at 1:22 PM on November 27, 2003


No danger to Hillary. Why would they want to attack a friend?

so you're saying Bush isn't a friend to Baghdad?

well duh!
posted by mcsweetie at 1:48 PM on November 27, 2003


smart PR move.

how far did i travel? one block to the local corner store to stock up on more booze. boyscout's motto: be prepared.
posted by poopy at 2:09 PM on November 27, 2003


What Shagoth said.

And on Thanksgiving, a day with minimal newsroom staffing, the story is on permaloop on TV, like the Yule Log on Christmas Eve.

Watch the footage carefully. The "cheering" and applause they are so proud of sound like no more than 25-50 people and the camera is careful not to panaway from the mike.

Incumbental advantology.
posted by Fupped Duck at 2:45 PM on November 27, 2003


blah blah blah Bush is bad blah blah blah...

I personally traveled from Michigan to Illinois, so that's like traveling from Baghdad back to the U.S. I suppose.
posted by gyc at 2:48 PM on November 27, 2003


He snuck in like a thief and didn't even leave the airport--all to get pics for his campaign commercials (he obviously can't use the "mission accomplished" airport carrier ones). And I thought things were good in Iraq and it was the media's fault that we don't think so--he obviously should have been able to walk the streets to see and experience the results of his war, and the happy dancing iraqis who want to give him flowers, no? It's been 10 months already. And if he really cared about the troops, you'd think he'd go to some funerals or visit a military hospital to honor those who actually got hurt or died for this little adventure (but those don't provide pretty pictures). I'd love to be proven wrong, but I know for a fact we'll be seeing these pictures during the campaign, and not pictures of the dead or wounded, whose numbers are and will be continuing to climb. (sidenote: even my uncle, who is a republican ex-servicemember, thought this was shady, and not the way the president should have visited the country we supposedly liberated.)
posted by amberglow at 2:58 PM on November 27, 2003


i hate bush
posted by mildred-pitt at 3:02 PM on November 27, 2003


i hate bush
That's nice, I hate Hillary. Maybe next time we can both actually contribute to the discussion.

I travelled just far enough to buy some fresh ginger. Then I deep fried two turkeys and now I'm buzzed on a potent mixture of coffee, pecan pie and tryptophan.
posted by tcskeptic at 4:30 PM on November 27, 2003


We went nowhere. We already had the "Turkey with Everything" dinner last night, so that my husband's daughters could join in. Tonight is probably grazing on leftovers. We didn't get together with my aunt's family this year because they've all got the flu. So far we've watched some movies, taken a nap, and fooled around on the computer.
posted by Shoeburyness at 5:25 PM on November 27, 2003


Bush in Baghdad

Cool! And he didn't even have to inlist...
posted by wfrgms at 5:43 PM on November 27, 2003


>How far did you travel on this Thanksgiving Day?

No further than any other day. I usually work Thanksgiving Monday, being a time-and-a-half day and all. Eight'll get you twelve or twelve'll get you eighteen, depending on your schedule.
posted by philfromhavelock at 6:10 PM on November 27, 2003


I appreciate the President's trip to visit the troops in Baghdad...and can safely state that almost all of my comrades in arms feel the same way. It was a very good thing for him to do.

And re: sound like no more than 25-50 people...

So the fuck what? He visited the troops in a war zone. It doesn't particularly matter if there were 25 troops available to see him, or 2500 -- the point is that he did it, and on a national holiday that the troops roundly appreciate. He didn't *have* to do it - he chose to. And the symbolic nature of the trip is quite amazing - an American president visiting a country that was, until six months ago, terrorized and brutalized by a bloodthirsty, maniacal despot.

And call me naive, but I ascribe more noble motives to the President for this visit than most of the MeFites in this thread. I suspect that he will be re-elected anyway -- this trip won't change the outcome of the election.
posted by davidmsc at 7:10 PM on November 27, 2003


Aside from the whole blatant PR angle, doesn't anyone in the military find it extremely offensive to allow a known deserter prance around in various uniforms whenever he feels like it?

Me, I drove about an hour to have dinner with about 50 family members, some of whom I haven't seen in about 25 years, and many who I met for the first time, ever. It was great.
posted by majcher at 7:17 PM on November 27, 2003


He didn't *have* to do it - he chose to.
He chose to sneak into Baghdad's airport under cover of darkness and stay for only 2 hours, david? And with a press pool of reporters and videographers who weren't told where they were going, or allowed to report on it until after it was over? Only meeting with a small group of soldiers (600 out of 100,000+) inside the baghdad airport? Not touring around to see anything, or any other soldiers, or meeting with the governing council in public? That smells to many people (and belies his "good news" spin on conditions there).
posted by amberglow at 7:22 PM on November 27, 2003


I went to work
posted by Eekacat at 8:20 PM on November 27, 2003


a scripted and perfectly executed campaign stop. my bush-adoring fundy brother was practically beside himself with unbridled shrub-worship. i just felt like puking. on his shoes. (either one, take your pick).
posted by quonsar at 8:31 PM on November 27, 2003


I drove to Ann Arbor to put up decorations at grandmas. She had the coolest (the only) decked out balcony in the whole place. I saw Mrs. Hanson, has the most wonderful english accent, she once told me a story about the "great war". Grandmas 98 now, is in a cast so to say, has to have help and I'm thankful she has the resources to have help. A few years back she received the University of Michigans life time volunteer award. She had donated 200,000$ worth of time alone. She wheeled Mr. Mott around the childrens Hospital when it opened. (ya, I'm chatty cathy so what) and she still has her humour. She atrted volunteering her time in 1917, making bandages for the red cross. At 14 she drove the counties new R.E.O. Speedwagon to a fire because the driver was Ill and great grandpa was in Lansing meeting with the governor. She used to to pound ivory at the silent filmhouse, played the saxophone and has traveled the world. She also was a clerk/translator at the French ligation in detroit.

so, i guess i am thankful to have a wonderful grandma.

and i realize what an thankless S.O.B I have become.
posted by clavdivs at 8:44 PM on November 27, 2003


Your grandma really is cool (they all are--i still really miss mine, and always more so at holidays). Give her an extra kiss next time you see her. : >
(and eekacat--i had to bring work home)
posted by amberglow at 8:49 PM on November 27, 2003


Wasn't Thanksgiving in October?
posted by damclean2 at 9:12 PM on November 27, 2003


I liked your story, clavdivs. Really, that was great.

Your grandmother has the admiration of at least two more people :)
posted by philfromhavelock at 9:50 PM on November 27, 2003


He chose to sneak into Baghdad's airport under cover of darkness and stay for only 2 hours, david? And with a press pool of reporters and videographers who weren't told where they were going, or allowed to report on it until after it was over? Only meeting with a small group of soldiers (600 out of 100,000+) inside the baghdad airport? Not touring around to see anything, or any other soldiers, or meeting with the governing council in public?

It's a freaking WAR ZONE. The man is the President of the United States, the Commander-in-Chief, arguably the most powerful man on the planet right now. Travelling to a war zone is NOT something that you send out a press release to the NYT or WaPo for. Mingling among the troops outdoors in an unsecure area that is prone to RPGs, exploding donkeys, and car-bombs is NOT a wise thing to do.

Jeebus, the man visited U.S. military troops in a war zone on Thanksgiving and didn't announce his plans to Al-Jazeera in advance -- can't you progressives grant him ANY goodwill or benevolence?
posted by davidmsc at 10:44 PM on November 27, 2003


can't you progressives grant him ANY goodwill or benevolence?

Can't you muster a modicum of skepticism? He is, in some indirect way, your boss, no? A military deserter is hamming it up with real soldiers in order to give his approval ratings a bump, and that doesn't make you feel exploited? I'm sure a lot of now Vietnam vets felt the same way you did in 1966 or so. If looking out for yourself isn't interesting, you might want to think about the entire generation that is going to get chewed up by our brilliant "flypaper" strategy (which, as far as I can tell, involves making new civillian populations hate us so that they will fight us and then we can win).

Oh, and you're right that complaining about not announcing the trip in advance is stupid. He is the President, and Iraq is a dangerous place (and W sure ought to know that).
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 10:58 PM on November 27, 2003


He didn't *have* to do it - he chose to.

We didn't *have* to pay for it - he chose for us to.
i hate that sonofabitch bush with every atom of my being.
posted by quonsar at 12:04 AM on November 28, 2003


la la!
posted by y2karl at 12:28 AM on November 28, 2003


My mother travelled from Los Angeles to Strasbourg, France just to spend Thanksgiving with me & my significant other. She's jetlagged and sleeping in the other room, atm.
*happy
posted by ruelle at 1:20 AM on November 28, 2003


oh and re: It's a freaking WAR ZONE.

um... the war finished in APRIL, 7 months ago, mm'k? This, euphemistically speaking, is a predicament.
posted by ruelle at 1:42 AM on November 28, 2003


ruelle:
You don't think it's a war? A guerilla war isn't a war?
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 1:55 AM on November 28, 2003


no, this is not war. Not even a guerilla war (which was more or less Vietnam's case)

This is but a normal post war situation. It just happens to be too much too handle at times (perhaps due to a lack of foresight and preparation) for the commanders posted there.

Don't act as if I'm saying something revolutionary.
posted by ruelle at 2:07 AM on November 28, 2003


He visited the troops in a war zone.

He certainly did, and the troops are all the better for it. He's the first president since Lincoln to visit trrops at a war zone (I think), and Lincoln's was domestic.

Thank you President Bush.

I traveled to the T.V. when I heard President Bush showed up in Iraq, bless him.
posted by hama7 at 5:52 AM on November 28, 2003


(*troops), oops
posted by hama7 at 5:54 AM on November 28, 2003


I suspect that he will be re-elected anyway.

I suspect the talons of revisionism is already deep in the voting public, not 4 years from the Supreme Court's selection of Bush as President.
posted by the fire you left me at 7:21 AM on November 28, 2003


hama7: Nixon.
posted by shagoth at 7:22 AM on November 28, 2003


I guarantee that if he wasn't up for reelection with a controversial war being waged, he would have stayed the fuck home.

Were there any "Mission Accomplished" banners this time?
posted by adampsyche at 8:04 AM on November 28, 2003


hama7: Nixon.

I missed that one. And there are other similarities in terms of domestic overspending as well.
posted by hama7 at 8:05 AM on November 28, 2003


If he really gave a shit he might even attend a funeral or two.
posted by adampsyche at 8:15 AM on November 28, 2003


Here's a more complete modern list of wartime visits by presidents. Clinton, for a recent comparison, went to Kosovo for thanksgiving, and announced it in advance.
posted by amberglow at 8:40 AM on November 28, 2003


thanx AG and Philfromhavlock.
I will most certainly give her a double peck on the cheek.
I did not know Bush went to some bunker for two hours. Boy, that is a real moral booster huh?
posted by clavdivs at 10:42 AM on November 28, 2003


If he really gave a shit he might even attend a funeral or two.

Just for argument's sake:

How many funerals of soldiers that died during his administration, did Clinton attend?

(I am speaking of funerals, not memorials)
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 2:17 PM on November 28, 2003


Bill Clinton attended a service in October 2000 in memory of the 17 sailors killed in the attack on the USS Cole. After the terrorist bombing the Murrah building in downtown Oklahoma City he publicly grieved with the families of the victims at an event that was regarded at the time as a turning point in his presidency. Like many other presidents he visited the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. from here.

Also, and more importantly, since you're playing tit for tat: this law:
Beginning in 1998, the Department of Defense worked closely with the Veterans Service Organizations and Funeral Directors Associations to determine how best to deliver Military Funeral Honors to all eligible veterans whose families request them. This has been and will continue to be a challenging task given the significant military manpower and demographic changes that have occurred over the past decade.... This situation has led the Department of Defense to work with Veterans Service Organizations and Funeral Directors Associations to address the issue of Military Funeral Honors Law. On October 5, 1999, President Clinton signed into law the National Defense Authorization Act, Public Law 105-261. Section 578 of the Act reflects the extensive deliberations conducted on Military Funeral Honors over the past year.
Show us what Bush has done for vets, besides closing VA hospitals and stuff.
posted by amberglow at 2:53 PM on November 28, 2003


and check this out from a Reagan staffer: (even some repubs are pissed about this)
"As a fellow Republican, I would also offer Karl Rove some friendly political advice. Skipping memorial services makes the president look weak. It creates the impression that he values his own political standing above the lost lives of servicemen and women. Avoiding the grieving families invites demagoguery because so many of our professional soldiers come from the middle and lower classes of American society, and not the president's own privileged social class. With an election approaching, presenting the picture of a president who has time for fundraisers but not for military funerals would be an egregious mistake."Finally, there is an asymmetry to the administration's use of the military in presidential events. It is wrong to bask publicly in glory on the deck of an aircraft carrier unless you are also willing to grieve openly for fallen soldiers. You can't wrap yourself in the flag while avoiding flag-draped coffins."
posted by amberglow at 3:06 PM on November 28, 2003


Bill Clinton attended a service

So in other words, zero funerals.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 10:33 PM on November 28, 2003


From your link, the number of soldier's funerals attended by Presidents:

Abraham Lincoln: 0

Franklin Roosevelt: 0

Lyndon Johnson: 2
(one for a son of a White House correspondent, the other for the only division commander killed in Vietnam)

Richard Nixon: 0

Jimmy Carter: 0

Ronald Reagan: 0

George H.W. Bush: 0

Bill Clinton: 0

Notice a pattern here?
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 10:45 PM on November 28, 2003


Bush didn't really travel anywhere.

the custom modifications include interior reconfiguration for presidential duties: sleeping quarters, office areas, two kitchens, a medical operating table and pharmacy, communications systems, telephones and television sets, even workout rooms. there is also space for the president's family, staff and news media. the plane can also be operated as a millitary command center in the event of an incident such as a nuclear attack. operational modifications include in-flight refueling capability and anti-aircraft missile countermeasures.

Not like how the soldiers travel somewhere, really travel, to get somewhere. The day a POTUS actually "travels" will be when he sets foot on Mars or starts hanging out with Will Smith or something.
posted by crasspastor at 12:35 AM on November 29, 2003


thanks, crasspastor. I was amused by all the news articles that seemed to stress how Bush spent 20+ hours in the air, as if he spent all that time being stuck in coach sitting next to an annoying guy who was heading to an Oracle convention.
posted by gluechunk at 2:09 AM on November 29, 2003


How many of those presidents also landed on carrier ships with the phrase "Mission Accomplished" in the background? My point is, it's a PR stunt, just as was the turkey day visit.
posted by adampsyche at 8:33 AM on November 29, 2003


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