Comments on: greatest german

greatest german

stbalbach — Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:30:12 -0800

Three million Germans have voted post-war Chancellor Konrad Adenauer as the greatest German of all time. Reformation Monk Martin Luther came second, with communist philosopher Karl Marx third. Composer Johann Sebastian Bach and writer Johannes Wolfgang von Goethe were also in the running. Adolf Hitler and other Nazis were excluded from the poll.

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:45:33 -0800

I'm one-quarter German and I would've voted for Werner Klemperer. He's not really a Nazi, he just played one on TV.

By: machaus

machaus — Sun, 30 Nov 2003 20:53:18 -0800

I know Beethoven died in Austria, but isn't he considered a German?

By: stbalbach

stbalbach — Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:15:28 -0800

Beethoven was born in Bonn, Germany then moved to Vienna, Austria where he made his career. It's like a lot of musicians are known as New York bands but are not from there. Oddly enough I'm listening to Beethoven as I'm reading/writing this.

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:18:07 -0800

What, no love for Dirk?

By: the fire you left me

the fire you left me — Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:24:20 -0800

Otto von Bismarck? Wilhelm Conrad Roentgen? Kraftwerk?

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:29:57 -0800

Fortunately at the last moment they decided against classifying David Hasselhof as an honorary German.

By: The God Complex

The God Complex — Sun, 30 Nov 2003 21:37:20 -0800

Heidegger! Nietzsche!

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:07:49 -0800

alright, if you're going to get serious... Schopenhauer!!!

By: riviera

riviera — Sun, 30 Nov 2003 22:12:07 -0800

Be historical, Germany: there were no 'Germans' before 1871. Which narrows down the field a bit. And Adenauer was only a Wessie, which means he should really be 'greatest German in two-thirds-Germany'. (Actually, I liked the World Service correspondent's take on this: that it reflected Germans' coming to terms with a national identity built upon consolidation and amelioration rather than upon individualism and expansionism. Which makes a lot of sense.)

By: Steve_at_Linnwood

Steve_at_Linnwood — Mon, 01 Dec 2003 00:10:15 -0800

Adolf Hitler ... [was] excluded from the poll. Why would he be included in a list of all time greatest Germans? He was Austrian.

By: Eloquence

Eloquence — Mon, 01 Dec 2003 00:21:21 -0800

The one thing this poll "reflects" is the predominant age group of its participants. This was a survey among viewers of a ZDF show, ARD and ZDF being Germany's public TV stations, both most popular among senior citizens. For them, Adenauer is still a kind of hero, primarily because he served over 14 years! There are no term limits in Germany -- Helmut Kohl served 16 years -- and when you have a chancellor over that period of time, he is bound to leave a lasting impression. Imagine living under GWB for 16 years. Adenauer was a staunch conservative and anti-communist who established Germany as a military "bulwark" against the Soviet bloc, thereby finalizing the separation of East and West Germany. This policy meant that in a World War III, Germany would have become a major battleground. Adenauer also advocated nuclear weapons for Germany, which led to the stationing of US missiles on German ground. Of course he was also a rigid social conservative, and things like sex education were unheard of in the Adenauer era. Instead, he honored the contracts between church and state that had been established by Adolf Hitler and that are valid to this day (these contracts include a state-collected "church tax" for church members and Christian/religious education in schools). The only good thing about this poll is that Marx made it to #3. Adenauer would never forgive that :-) Steve: For the people who admire Hitler, Austria is part of the German "Reich". Come to think of it, so is most of the rest of the world.

By: cx

cx — Mon, 01 Dec 2003 01:19:25 -0800

riviera, just beacuse there were no German state, doesn't mean there were no German nation. There were indeed Germans before 1871, and they regarded themselves and each other as Germans. And Austria was wideliy regarded as part of the German nation, though it was a part of the empire and double monarchy of Austria-Hungary. Luther, Marx, Bach, Goethe, Gutenberg and Einstein are all worthy of the top 10-spot they gained. No doubt about it. Whether Brandt and Adenauer (or for that matter Bismarck) will go down in history as their equals, I'm not so sure. Other noteworthy Germans include Kant, the brothers Grimm, Leibniz, Schiller, Gauss, Fugger, Händel, Pachelbel, Hegel, Weber, Kafka, Hesse, Mann, Dürer, Freud, Nitzsche, Beethoven, Mendelsohn, Charlemagne, Fahrenheit, Röntgen, Geiger, Hertz, Ohm, Planck, Mercator and undoubtedly many more.

By: zerofoks

zerofoks — Mon, 01 Dec 2003 02:32:01 -0800

Albern.

By: Mayor Curley

Mayor Curley — Mon, 01 Dec 2003 08:12:46 -0800

There were indeed Germans before 1871, and they regarded themselves and each other as Germans. Then that's fantastically broad. Were Prussians eligible? German speakers who lived in Konigsberg and other Baltic areas controlled by the Hanseatic League? Were Dutch people, whose language is as close to Low German as High German is, included? (because I'm assuming that Lowlanders were elligible.) Was Oppenheimer included? He was American-born, but he was a native speaker of German and thus seems to meet the sole requirement.

By: cx

cx — Mon, 01 Dec 2003 09:53:28 -0800

Were Prussians eligible? German speakers who lived in Konigsberg and other Baltic areas controlled by the Hanseatic League? IMHO, most certainly! Those areas became the heartland of the modern Germany. Were Dutch people, whose language is as close to Low German as High German is, included? (because I'm assuming that Lowlanders were elligible. No. AFAIK the Dutch never considered themselves German. (Neither did the Danish nor the Frisians) Was Oppenheimer included? He was American-born, but he was a native speaker of German and thus seems to meet the sole requirement. The sole requirement of whom? I didn't talk about language? I talked about belonging to the German nation. Did Oppenheimer consider himself German? Did others? If so, by all means include him.

By: ginz

ginz — Mon, 01 Dec 2003 14:15:22 -0800

Nina Hagen didn't make the list? Mayor Curley: Never say that about the Dutch again. Especially when in Portugal next year somewhere in June.