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What is Punk?
January 29, 2004 11:13 AM   Subscribe

Punk rock is dead.
posted by cachilders (38 comments total)

 
Alongside Lydon, the lineup includes a topless model named Jordan, former Olympic 400-meter runner Diane Modahl, '80s pop pinup Peter Andre, and Lord Brocket, an aristocrat jailed in 1996 for insurance fraud.

They're joined by a member of a girl group, a former soccer player, a former soccer player's wife, a former BBC royal correspondent and a former radio DJ.


One question: would that be 'the wife of a former soccer player' or 'the former wife of a soccer player'?
posted by vacapinta at 11:23 AM on January 29, 2004


Punk rock is dead.

...and so is this thread.
posted by starvingartist at 11:25 AM on January 29, 2004


Agreed. I hadn't seen the Lyden post. It was only included to beef up the main link, which was the animation. Kill the thread and I'll repost in another fashion, or kill the second half.
posted by cachilders at 11:28 AM on January 29, 2004


Punk may be dead, but double posting lives on
posted by Outlawyr at 11:29 AM on January 29, 2004


1. johhny rotten sold out a long long time ago. nothing new there.

2. the cnn link is 9 days old. nothing new there.

3. this story was covered 9 days ago. nothing new there.

4. whiskey tango foxtrot the first link.

done.
posted by car_bomb at 11:30 AM on January 29, 2004


was just about to say, the Sex Pistols were essentially Reality TV anyway, but I see that sentiment has already been expressed in the old thread...
posted by badstone at 11:30 AM on January 29, 2004


4. whiskey tango foxtrot the first link.

The thread was sort of worth it just for spawning this euphemism.
posted by COBRA! at 11:40 AM on January 29, 2004


What the fuck is punk rock anyway?

Is it late 70's British punk rock?
Is it American Hardcore?
Is it New York's Arty CBGB's scene?
Or is it poseurs like these or fashion victims like this?
Or maybe it's just a timeless attitude, as embodied by this?

Whatever you think, you can consider the studded belt, green hair and safety pin cheek look is either a clueless ripoff of 25 year old fashion statement, or a nostalgic tribute. Up to you I guess.

I think it's totally missing the point to call Johnny a sell out. Johnny is, was and always will be a world class iconoclast. He is what he is. If he ever donned an Armani suit and started doing adverts shilling for George W Bush and the oil and gas industry, there'd always be an elment of irony to it, that would make it punk rock.
posted by psmealey at 11:43 AM on January 29, 2004


I'm just amazed that anyone would think of the Sex Pistols as a "seminal punk band" when it was in fact Malcolm McLaren's commercial joke on punk at the time of its creation.
posted by clevershark at 11:44 AM on January 29, 2004


4. whiskey tango foxtrot the first link.

The thread was sort of worth it just for spawning this euphemism.


agreed.
posted by lotsofno at 11:46 AM on January 29, 2004


as much as i'd love to take credit for it, i believe 'whiskey tango foxtrot' originated on somethingawful.com
posted by car_bomb at 11:49 AM on January 29, 2004


Alongside Lydon, the lineup includes a topless model named Jordan,...

Does this mean that she models topless for a living, or that she's topless on the show alongside Johnny? Now that would explain his motivation...
posted by jonmc at 11:52 AM on January 29, 2004


What is punk? For starters it was music that went against the grain. Seems today it is "Punk Rock". It started out as music that had no label and today is labeled.

Is punk rock cool? Originally, thought dressing punk was dressing non- mainstream fashion(s) and being noticed. Yet anyone could be punker, cool or not. Today it seems cool is being dressed in "punk rock" fashion. The question, Is punk dead? The answer maybe, it cooled out.
posted by thomcatspike at 11:59 AM on January 29, 2004


Great Rock 'n' Roll Swindle

People said we couldn't play
The called us foul-mothed yobs
But the only notes that really count
Are the ones that come in wads

They all drowned when the air turned blue
'Cos we didn't give a toss
Filthy lucre, ain't nothing new
But we all get cash from the chaos

The time is right to do it now
The greatest rock'n'roll swindle
The time is right to do it now

E.M.I. said you're out of hand
And they gave us the boot
But they couldn't sack us, just like that
Without giving us the loot

Thank you kindly A & M
They said we were out of bounds
But that ain't bad for two weeks work
And 75,000 pounds

The time is right to do it now
The greatest rock'n'roll swindle
The time is right to do it now

The time is right to do it now
The greatest rock'n'roll swindle
The time is right to do it now

I just wanna play with my hand
Are you good enough for me
Hiya boys I'm the choosen one
Can't you fucking see

I'm a jealous god and I want everything
And I love you with a knife
I'll take you, if you're ready for me
And I'll give you my life

The time is right to do it now
The greatest rock'n'roll swindle
The time is right to do it now

The time is right for Nickey's Special
The greatest rock'n'roll star
The time is right for me, now!

posted by Pollomacho at 12:03 PM on January 29, 2004


"when it was in fact Malcolm McLaren's commercial joke on punk at the time of its creation"


No matter how many times it's repeated, people still don't get it.
posted by 2sheets at 12:06 PM on January 29, 2004


What is punk rock? The answer should be obvious.

I am punk rock.
posted by adamgreenfield at 12:20 PM on January 29, 2004


The Sex Pistols were a sham.

It was always so very punk rock.
posted by the fire you left me at 12:27 PM on January 29, 2004


This old dude was on Judge Judy. I kid you not.
Google it. And so it goes. When Morrissey goes to Survivor Island, THEN I will be very sad.
posted by BrodieShadeTree at 12:45 PM on January 29, 2004


I saw that it was hilarious!
posted by Pollomacho at 12:52 PM on January 29, 2004


When Morrissey goes to Survivor Island, THEN I will be very sad.

When Morrissey is rosted alive and eaten by the other contestants, I will be very glad.
posted by jonmc at 12:53 PM on January 29, 2004


did you guys hear rappers can write pop songs now?
posted by Satapher at 1:00 PM on January 29, 2004


That Ben Folds Five song is fab.
posted by degnarra at 1:16 PM on January 29, 2004


*blinks away tears*
What do you MEAN?!
posted by squirrel at 1:16 PM on January 29, 2004


you can never make too many posts about the sex pistols.
posted by sgt.serenity at 1:18 PM on January 29, 2004


Looks like he's been Careering to sink to such a Low Life. On the other hand, it is the Same Old Story. Not everybody can Go Back because the Rules and Regulations ensure a Bad Life when our Luck's Up
posted by infowar at 1:21 PM on January 29, 2004


Don't you people see? Johnny's outpunking all you punks! He is the punketiest punk in all punkdom!

He's so punk that he doesn't care about [whiskey tango foxtrot] he looks like, [whiskey tango foxtrot] you all think of him, which jungle he gets sent to, which topless cheesecake model he has to share his little island with, nothing!

Genius. Pure genius. I wouldn't watch a second of this, even if I could.
posted by chicobangs at 1:22 PM on January 29, 2004


thomcatspike is right on (, dude). Whatever punk rock or punk "fashion" was, it wasn't "cool". It wasn't supposed to be. It was intended to be outrageous, and abrasive. "Cool" was waiting behind the velvet rope snorting coke out of a spoon at Studio 54. Then it was co-opted. And become cool. Which is not cool. Or is it cool?

re: the Pistols. 2sheets gets it. But I'm not sure if it's something that can be explained, as many times as I've tried to do it myself. Maybe the closest you can come to understanding why they were great, is by watching the splice footage of the Pistols doing "No Fun" in the beginning of 24 Hour Party People.
posted by psmealey at 1:25 PM on January 29, 2004


First of all, Malcolm McLaren DID NOT form the Sex Pistols. This a myth perpetuated by him. Steve Jones and Paul Cook started the group, they wrote the music, they wrote the lyrics, they performed the songs. Not Malcolm McLaren.

But even if you want to credit McLaren, their manager, with turning them into a public sensation, I'm not altogether sure what makes the Pistols' creation any worse than any other so-called corporate band. Tell me that, ultimately, the formation of CSNY or any band Eric Clapton ever played in wasn't an attempt to cash in -- in other words, "a commercial joke."

I'm not arguing the Pistols were a seminal group in the '70s punk movement (for me, that was the Clash and the Ramones). But they absolutely reflected the musical anarchy of the time. I mean, if Sid Vicious (who WAS a McLaren creation) singing "My Way" wasn't punk, what was?

As for Johnny Rotten, he was pretty much gone by the time of "Rock and Roll Swindle." They broke up shortly after BECAUSE the band-members hated their so-called success -- a breakup that Lester Bangs (who invented the term, punk rock") called "one of the most admirable things I've ever heard of."
posted by sixpack at 1:28 PM on January 29, 2004


Please Kill Me
posted by psmealey at 1:46 PM on January 29, 2004


Losers. Being Punk is not having to say it.

People who are really punk do not have to show it. They don't have to drive to the mall and buy their Ramones T-shirts for $25 and a Misfits record for $20 when they never in fact owned a single Ramones album. They saw another kid wearing it and decided that if they could look like that kid they could be cool. Anything about the punk movement that is shamelessly plugged to death and shown on MTV has lost its original ideology to begin with. Just because Rancids "D.J." song ends up on MTV and you see a bunch of 12 year old girls wearing rancid shirts doesn't make it "Ironic". It makes it "Stupid".
posted by Keyser Soze at 1:50 PM on January 29, 2004


The difference between CSNY/Clapton/etc. and the Pistols was purely in the marketing.

If you'd called Clapton a foulmouthed yob, or if you'd called Stephen Stills a -- whatever the San Francisco translation of "foulmouthed yob" is, they'd probably have socked you one. Johnny (and Sid and the rest of 'em) embraced it as their character. That's all Punk was, really. It gave the royalists in 1977 something to hate, and it worked like a charm. The term meant something different in the States, but that's not what's on the table here, I don't think.

Steve Jones & Glen Matlock (especially) were pretty damned good musicians, and with Johnny's and Sid's (and, yes, Malcolm's) showmanship and sense of humour, they took the serious business of making a hit record and turned it into a pretty good joke that pissed off all the right people.

Think of Johnny Rotten as an old pottymouthed vaudeville/borscht belt comic who's now doing chat shows and celebrity roasts. That's who he always was, really.

Next up for Johnny: Caddyshack III!
I... wanna beeeee-ya.... on the 18th teeeeee!
posted by chicobangs at 2:04 PM on January 29, 2004


PostIt Notes, make us feel smart, but we're not
posted by Satapher at 2:23 PM on January 29, 2004


Agree with SixPack. It is McClaren's fantasy that he totally created the Sex Pistols. I saw them play in 1976 and it was an amazing experience - not that that sounded good, but their whole stage presence and attitude was like nothing I had ever seen before. They were the first band on the London punk and they had a huge influence on all the bands that followed. Johnny always was and still is twice as bright and three times as cool as all those around him.
posted by rolo at 2:29 PM on January 29, 2004


Punk died the minute everyone started arguing over what was punk and what wasn't.
posted by fuzz at 3:14 PM on January 29, 2004


Punk dead? C'mere, lemme hawk a loogie on you to prove it ain't so...
posted by Ogre Lawless at 4:07 PM on January 29, 2004


Am I punk?
posted by Hildago at 11:18 PM on January 29, 2004


Never mind the bollocks.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:49 AM on January 30, 2004


Well. I am certainly enjoying the show. Lydon's rapidly ejecting his "horrible man" image, and coming over as a warm, compassionate, funny person. Ironically, the most rebellious member of the entire group seems to be Jenny Bond (Former Royal Correspondent for the BBC).
Compulsive T.V., and anyone who says that Lydon has sold out should watch the show before proffering opinions.
posted by seanyboy at 1:56 AM on January 30, 2004


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