Comments on: 9/11 - transcripts and narratives from victims and survivors

9/11 - transcripts and narratives from victims and survivors

madamjujujive — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:21:46 -0800

Stewardess ID'd Hijackers Early, Transcripts Show - Gail Sheehy offers a gripping read that details flight crew heroics on Flight 11, and one that points to many questions still unanswered. And in a view of the terrible events from the ground, Firehouse.com presents 22 extraordinary stories told by firefighters who were in or around the WTC. (Be forewarned that these are strong narratives.)

By: Peter H

Peter H — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:28:31 -0800

The full comment from Bush was "that's some bad pilot, I thought we'd paid them to collide into a lower floor"

By: quonsar

quonsar — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:35:27 -0800

i was up for hours the other night reading the firehouse.com narratives. incredible. i was highly frustrated by my lack of familiarity with the streets and buildings named constantly throughout these stories and found this map to be a tremendous help in visualizing events.

By: anastasiav

anastasiav — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:38:53 -0800

So, how do we get every voter in America to read this? Superb post! Thank you...

By: konolia

konolia — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:42:12 -0800

And I suppose none of us has ever said a tasteless thing in our lives? Yeah, it was a stupid statement-but this is Bush in the White House, not Jesus. If any of us had the pressure and the stress and the overwhelming responsibility of the highest office in the land, I'm sure a lot of our quotes would find themselves all over Mefi. Heaven knows I've said enough stupid stuff, and I hope I could be considered to be a kind and sensitive person. And why is is that this is the first time I have heard this quote? IF he really said it seems somebody else would have been blabbing about it all over the placeway before now. (Nothing personal, Madamej and specialk, just in a rant mode today I guess. )

By: homunculus

homunculus — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:48:59 -0800

Great post, juju. Thanks.

By: Ignatius J. Reilly

Ignatius J. Reilly — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:49:18 -0800

And why is is that this is the first time I have heard this quote? Because Sheehy is just about the only reporter in America who cares one whit about the 9/11 widows.

By: specialk420

specialk420 — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:49:59 -0800

this is Bush in the White House, not Jesus. the question is what did his staffers tell him? -- how were they so underinformed about events that morning? especially when we all know he was briefed on august 6 2001 - that al queda was planning a large scale strike on the united states. call your congressperson - or senator and rant kanolia

By: smackfu

smackfu — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:04:36 -0800

I thought they thought it was a small private plane at first.

By: AaRdVarK

AaRdVarK — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:11:04 -0800

Yeah, as much as I don't like Bush, this comment doesn't bother me too much. A lot of people use humor to deal with stressful situations, and so what if he's got one that's a little warped. I've found that the more stressful the situation, the more warped it becomes even. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to nail Bush, I don't think this is one of them.

By: aladfar

aladfar — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:12:34 -0800

A chilling and difficult article to read. Thanks for posting it here. While no supporter of Bush, I'm inclined to forgive his comment, and the perceived sloth of NORAD and the Department of Defense in responding to the situation - this was an unprecedented event. What's galling, however, are the evasive maneuvers on the part of the White House and other agencies in covering up these shortcomings. The United States and its public are being denied the chance to learn from mistakes, whatever they were. The thousands who died deserve better than that.

By: konolia

konolia — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:23:11 -0800

call your congressperson - or senator and rant kanolia Edwards is a wee bit busy at the moment.

By: Blue Stone

Blue Stone — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:25:13 -0800

And why is is that this is the first time I have heard this quote? Maybe you should read more Greg Palast or Russ Kick [this stuff was in Abuse Your Illusions April 2003]

By: tommasz

tommasz — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:30:34 -0800

madamjujujive, I was just re-reading my weblog entries from that time and popped over to MeFi to see what was new. There are no coincidences.

By: drezdn

drezdn — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:31:54 -0800

A lot of people use humor to deal with stressful situations, and so what if he's got one that's a little warped. Yes, but it's also not very presidential.

By: pardonyou?

pardonyou? — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:33:01 -0800

While it's certainly an interesting intellectual exercise to play the game of "Why does NORAD say 10:03 and the FAA says 10:07?" and "Didn't American Airlines know this was al Qaeda within five minutes?" (and hopefully those and other questions will one day be answered), it's also worth backing away from the trees to take a good gander at the forest. If you do that, you'll probably recall that 9/11 was really caused by 19 radical Islamic mass murderers who flew jumbo jets into fucking skyscrapers. You may now return to speculating whether F-16s reach 600 miles per hour within four minutes.

By: jennyb

jennyb — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 13:39:43 -0800

Edwards is a wee bit busy at the moment. Drop Liddy a line, or find your congressperson here. Edwards isn't you're only representative.

By: quonsar

quonsar — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:04:52 -0800

If you do that, you'll probably recall that 9/11 was really caused by 19 radical Islamic mass murderers who flew jumbo jets into fucking skyscrapers. yeah, yeah, we got that part pardonyou. it's the part where 9/11 was bent over the desk and sodomized repeatedly by thieving, lying, bloodthirsty all-american con-men in order to further their own financial interests and cement their power base that we are discussing here.

By: Armitage Shanks

Armitage Shanks — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:09:05 -0800

If you want to discuss thieving, lying, bloodthirsty all-american con-men, you have to shout radical Islamic mass murderers every few minutes. Those are the rules.

By: pardonyou?

pardonyou? — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:15:17 -0800

yeah, yeah, we got that part pardonyou. Sometimes I wonder.

By: Peter H

Peter H — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:18:49 -0800

I thought pardonyou "didn't post here anymore" (see bitchy explanation in profile) because he backed away from the trees and saw the whole forest, or something

By: konolia

konolia — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:28:57 -0800

Drop Liddy a line, or find your congressperson here. Edwards isn't you're only representative. posted by jennyb at 4:39 PM EST on February 17 Trust me-I know who my reps are. My problem is that they keep changing the dang district lines around here and THAT is why North Carolina voters don't have a Democratic primary this year. And why Edwards probably won't be swinging into town so we can ask him about national security issues. We all already know about textile mills. In fact (switching into full slightly offtopic rant gear) I wish the Democratic contenders would start talking more about their thoughts on national security. We don't have the luxury of just concentrating on the economy, even if they think they can whup George W. by campaigning on jobs, etc. If we have another attack on a similar scale as 9/11 our economy will take a hit just as much as anything.

By: pardonyou?

pardonyou? — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:28:58 -0800

I thought pardonyou "didn't post here anymore" (see bitchy explanation in profile) because he backed away from the trees and saw the whole forest, or something What can I say? I'm weak (and, apparently, bitchy). Sometimes this place is like an annoying itch that I can't help but scratch. The itch usually kicks in whenever 9/11 is brought up, and people seem to think that the real tragedy and source of outrage of that day is something like George Bush reading a book to elementary kids.

By: specialk420

specialk420 — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:32:47 -0800

radical Islamic mass murderers weren't most of them from a country that has yet to be added to the list of countries that support terrorism?

By: pardonyou?

pardonyou? — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:36:10 -0800

weren't most of them from a country that has yet to be added to the list of countries that support terrorism? Absolutely. Our "friends" the Saudis should be on that list. Hey, I'm not even claiming that the questions raised in this article shouldn't be asked, and I'm troubled by the apparent obstruction and delay. I just happen to think context is important.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:50:44 -0800

it's the part where 9/11 was bent over the desk and sodomized repeatedly by thieving, lying, bloodthirsty all-american con-men in order to further their own financial interests If the Big Three can't make money on terrorism, then the terrorists will have won.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 14:53:15 -0800

Absolutely. Our "friends" the Saudis should be on that list. Some of our other "friends" too.

By: jdroth

jdroth — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:03:46 -0800

While I, too, think this is a great article; and while, I, too am no lover of our President; I, too, can forgive him for his glib remark. I can still recall my first reaction that morning. He looked glum, and I asked him what was the matter. "Somebody just flew a plane into the World Trade Center." I laughed and called him a liar and started cracking jokes about how he must have had a rough night with his wife. I didn't think he could possibly be serious. Then, during those first few frantic minutes searching the web, I continued to crack wise. It was only once the magnitude of the situation dawned on me that I shut my mouth and obtained a proper degree of reverence. The thing that bugs me most about the article, though, is all the second guessing of what could have happened and what should have happened that morning. That's applying knowledge gained in 2-1/2 years since the attacks, and I don't think that's fair. The world reall was different then, and nobody could have understood what has happening as it was happening. Regardless: a great article that held me riveted during its entire length. (And those firehouse.com stories are awesome.)

By: specialk420

specialk420 — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 15:36:04 -0800

and nobody could have understood what has happening as it was happening. you are kidding right roth? or you've been in locked in an undisclosed location with dirty dick cheney since 911. bush was warned in detail on august 6, 2001 about an impending attack by al queda possibly including the use of airplanes ... there were dozens of additional warnings which went unheeded by the bush administration while the pursued missle defense and internet porn.

By: deadcowdan

deadcowdan — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:20:39 -0800

there were dozens of additional warnings which went unheeded by the bush administration while the pursued missle defense and internet porn. Well, I don't know about missile defense, but if the Bush administration was looking for Internet porn, I would have been happy to demonstrate Usenet for them. Frankly, I didn't think they'd need help finding it.

By: wsg

wsg — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 16:31:04 -0800

I think some frogmarching is in order.

By: milnak

milnak — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:27:48 -0800

For every crappy FPP, along comes one of these. Great post. Thanks.

By: centrs

centrs — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 19:07:10 -0800

i'd heard the quote before. what surprises me is that anyone is surprised by that article. if anyone had read any of the "freaky" conspiracy websites over the past two years, you would have heard all of this before. i can't believe it's taken two years for people to finally begin to believe that bush & co. knew about this and allowed it to happen.

By: fold_and_mutilate

fold_and_mutilate — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:08:11 -0800

Hey, I'm not even claiming that the questions raised in this article shouldn't be asked, and I'm troubled by the apparent obstruction and delay.... Oh, that's so belatedly nice. But somehow you weren't troubled enough to keep you from dismissing and belittling the anger and frustration of these victims as "an interesting intellectual exercise", were you? The naked partisanship you protestingly and continually try to disguise as "balance" is really pretty apparent, pardonyou. It really doesn't wash. Oh. And you were talking about "context", and exhorting everyone to look at the "forest", right? Somehow, though, you wanted everyone to stop their contextual woodchopping at your own oh-so-amazingly- global grove, which consists of "19 radical Islamic mass murderers", right? For some reason, you wanted to leave folks with the impression that the 9/11 widows and those who support honest inquiry were just looking at the "trees". For some reason, you didn't mention the following "forests"....but the 9/11 widows did: What connections did our government have with the terrorists prior to 9/11? Specifically: State department negotiations with Taliban re: pipeline through Afghanistan; interaction with the Taliban and/or bin Laden; CIA training and arming of terrorists. Who were the terrorist informants working with the FBI? Specifically: What did the FBI learn from them? What were the 9/11 warnings provided by these informants? What was done with these warnings to protect the American public? How did and do US energy policies play into Islamic terrorism? How do corporate and big business interests play into foreign policy decisions? What role did American think tanks, which make policy recommendations to the administration, play in American foreign policy decisions and the proliferation of Al Qaeda? Hmmm. "Forests". "Trees". Seems to me you and yours (Bush & Co.) are just squalling because the 9/11 widows have taken y'all to the woodshed over this....and they are right to have done it.

By: RobbieFal

RobbieFal — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 20:17:48 -0800

wasn't there talk that the hijackers used fake IDs?

By: troutfishing

troutfishing — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:31:44 -0800

There was a good 2-hour interview with the "Girls from new Jersey" - the 4 9-11 widows who were instrumental in pushing for a 9-11 investigation - on WBUR's "The Connection" show today. People kept calling in and asking rude questions like - "The Democrats put you up to this, right?" - to which they would respond "First of all, two of us were Republicans who voted for Bush, and two were Dems. who voted for Gore..." Anyway, it's hard to read Paul Thompson's Complete 9-11 Timeline and come away with a sense that the Bush Administration is on the up-and-up about September 11. There were a number of warnings from US allies about the impending 9-11 attack which the Bush Administration failed to heed.

By: troutfishing

troutfishing — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:36:56 -0800

And I'd really love to know what the then head of the Pakistani ISI - who is known to have sent $50,000 to Mohammed Atta - was doing meeting with prominent heads of Congress, the Senate, and the Bush Administration in the week before the 9-11 attack. What was discussed in these meetings? I'd love to know.

By: Slagman

Slagman — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 21:51:54 -0800

Is it me or is there something wrong with the first link? It seems to be a NY observer article about the GOP convention.

By: madamjujujive

madamjujujive — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:09:04 -0800

Damn, you're right Slagman - bad timing, I didn't realize that link would expire today. Here is an alternate source: Stewardess ID'd Hijackers Early, Transcripts Show

By: msacheson

msacheson — Tue, 17 Feb 2004 22:29:13 -0800

specialk420, be careful not to quote out of context when stating "we all know (Bush) was briefed on August 6"...your citation says, "we think it looked something like this: [brief]". Please note the word 'think'.

By: specialk420

specialk420 — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 08:28:12 -0800

good link trout. masacheson ... i think its safe to say we all "know" bush was briefed on august 6 about the threat ...

By: zaelic

zaelic — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 09:31:44 -0800

I just read the above mentioned Time Line. At this point you start to get dizzy. The facts and interpretations of events evolving over time literally made me feel the same scary queasiness I felt on and just after 9/11 (when I was a loud "Gotta support the President in these times of crisis" guy.) On the one hand, maybe we are all just nasty bad psycho people who won't give that nice man Bush a fair hearing. If we are not nasty bad psycho people then I really get scared. Bush would go down in History as one of the most evil characters ever.

By: sacre_bleu

sacre_bleu — Wed, 18 Feb 2004 12:37:22 -0800

If you're reading the comments before the article, I would point out that this is NOT an article bent on pushing the conspiracy theory that "the U.S. knew and let it happen." My synopsis: After a stewardess ID'd the hijackers' seats, U.S. could have known, even before the Pentagon was hit, that it was a bin Laden job, because the names on the passenger manifests rang the cherries in the U.S. Customs computer. U.S. may also have shot down the Pennsylvania jet. But the 9-11 Commission's managers have steered its focus away from those areas, and others that might embarass the Bush administration. But go ahead and read it yourself.