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Decisive Super Tuesday
March 2, 2004 5:32 PM   Subscribe

Buyer's Remorse? Mickey Kaus of Slate raises questions about Kerry as president, though as it looks like the Mass. senator has the nomination locked up. CNN reports that Edwards is dropping out tomorrow. And the polls aren't even closed yet in most states. CNN says the two men had a good talk by phone. Is this the Dems dream ticket? Meanwhile, Vermont screams for Dean.
posted by Slagman (96 comments total)

 


I'm disappointed in my cutie candidate (voted this am)--he didn't even wait for polls to close on the west coast to give his goodbye speech. Oh well--they're saying on MSNBC that Georgia's still too close to call. Chris Matthews tore Marty Meehan(?) a new one about Kerry's weaselly positions on the war, gay marriage, etc.

Kerry better shape up between now and election day (but on the other hand, we're so ready to get rid of Bush that maybe it won't matter?)
posted by amberglow at 5:46 PM on March 2, 2004


Oh I'm so giddy...
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 5:49 PM on March 2, 2004


I also think Kaus is 100% right about Kerry's faults.

Don't get too excited Steve--your guy is still going down.
posted by amberglow at 5:50 PM on March 2, 2004


oh steve, have you heard the new Bush/Cheney slogan?
Bush/Cheney 04: Don't Change Horsemen Mid-Apocalypse ; >
posted by amberglow at 6:06 PM on March 2, 2004


oooh, amber, want to put some money on that? :)
posted by mathowie at 6:07 PM on March 2, 2004


sure! 50 ok?
posted by amberglow at 6:09 PM on March 2, 2004


or--that trip to Iceland? ; >
posted by amberglow at 6:10 PM on March 2, 2004


Kerry seems the easiest to beat with his skeltons and stances on issues. Edwards seemed to be the Clinton clone that was unbeatable and talked about hope. He'll be the new Dan Qualye I guess for Kerry.

I want a dem to win, but I have a feeling Kerry's gonna end up totally Dukakising on us.
posted by mathowie at 6:14 PM on March 2, 2004


are you guys positive that the choice of Edwards as VP would really help Kerry in November? He doesn't seem to be really strong in the South (hence, how many States could he deliver to Kerry? Maye none at all), he has very little experience, he is not particularly hawkish to counter the Boston-commie label the RNC has already branded Kerry with, he has no military service to speak of so he doesn't even look hawkish.
yeah, he's a handsome man and a good speaker and good on tv and his family looks great and he does have that Clintonian optimism thing.
but I'm not sure he can deliver much for Kerry.
if anything, he'd make his boss look more of a cold fish than Kerry already is.
also Edwards doesn't seem to have a taste for the political brawl, so Kerry won't be able to use him as attack-dog to do the dirty negative work and remain presidential.
I'd go with Graham if he is fit after his heart thing (Kerry's a cancer survivor so he needs a very fit VP), or -- to think outside the box -- with Bayh if he can deliver Indiana (I'd need some serious polling on that) and some other midwestern state.
who else is good in the Democratic field? Richardson, maybe. But only the Kerry campaign at this point has a good idea about Richardson's numbers

on preview:
mathowie, I hear you but Dukakis negatives were sky-high, I don't think Kerry's are as high. also Kerry looks more hawkish than poor Korea veteran Dukakis. and he looks like he's willing to fight back any kind of WillieHorton RNC trash, the Duke just took a beating silently. and Kerry is much, much taller
posted by matteo at 6:20 PM on March 2, 2004


I think Kerry won't pick Edwards, and matteo has it right about the cold fish comparison. I see an old white guy--maybe a vet?

so matt? we on?
posted by amberglow at 6:23 PM on March 2, 2004


Jesus Christ, NOW we start tearing into Kerry? Now that he's more or less got the nomination sealed? Couldn't we have talked about his faults and feet of clay when there was still an option to select someone else? For the last two months all I've been hearing is how electable he is, how statesmanlike. End Cannibalism Now, democrats.
posted by Hildago at 6:26 PM on March 2, 2004



small caveat:
political comments from now until November can only make sense assuming that Diebold won't be a factor.
which I'm not sure of, but we'll see how many "upset" Republican victories will happen in Diebold districts. otherwise, all political discussion becomes by definition moot


posted by matteo at 6:26 PM on March 2, 2004


I read in Daily Kos (warning: long thread) that San Diego had big Diebold problems.
posted by amberglow at 6:29 PM on March 2, 2004


Bush/Cheney 04: Don't Change Horsemen Mid-Apocalypse

LOL
posted by rushmc at 6:32 PM on March 2, 2004


When I put Bush's negatives up against Kerry's........... I see Bush losing in a landslide.

Especially since he's determined to tell us how great his policies have been.
posted by y6y6y6 at 6:33 PM on March 2, 2004


Especially since he's determined to tell us how great his policies have been.

"If the Democratic policies had been pursued over the last two or three years, the kind of tax increases that both Kerry and Edwards have talked about, we would not have had the kind of job growth that we've had. " -Dick Cheney, MSNBC this afternoon

...o-kaaayyyy.........
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 6:35 PM on March 2, 2004


yep, gotta agree with mathowie. one of my worst fears was for kerry to be the dem's pick. then again, i can't say as i'm very surprised. maybe, just maybe, we'll all be surprised in november, who knows.

Hildago, i don't think this is so much about us as it is the press trying to spin a story. they manipulate it in a way to get more ratings, we follow, etc. etc.
posted by poopy at 6:38 PM on March 2, 2004


Me, I'm down with ABB.

But I gotta say that that Del Sandusky ad is pretty powerful. (Third ad down)
posted by coolgeek at 6:48 PM on March 2, 2004


sure! 50 ok?

I'll take some of that action. (I need a new hair dryer.)

We are talking about one of the most infantalized electorates in history.

Polls at this stage are like asking a 5-year-old if he would prefer a different set of parents - lots of times, for a variety of reasons, his answer is going to be 'yes'. But when the replacement parents show up, grab the startled little tyke's hand, and start dragging him out the front door, he will suddenly decide that he wants to stay right where he is.

Hide and watch.
posted by Opus Dark at 6:48 PM on March 2, 2004


ok..25 to matt, and 25 to you, Opus, if Bush wins a second term. (his economic policies haven't made me rich enough to bet 100). I get 25 from each of you if he does win.
posted by amberglow at 6:51 PM on March 2, 2004


oops--if he doesn't win. (now i'm giddy like steve) : >
posted by amberglow at 6:52 PM on March 2, 2004


hehe... amberglow, if you need a place to stay in december, just give me a ring ;)
posted by poopy at 6:55 PM on March 2, 2004


I'm down, amberglow. (I'd rather share your optimism than take your money - but I earn the 'dark' part of my nym.)
posted by Opus Dark at 6:56 PM on March 2, 2004


And you, apparently, earn the 'glow' part of yours. ;)
posted by Opus Dark at 6:58 PM on March 2, 2004


Alright all ye of little faith. If not Kerry then who? Edwards really was light on experience and Dean really was a bit out there sometimes.

I mean we're going against an incumbant president during a war which traditionally is just a losing proposition, even that the dems are in this race is a miracle.
posted by bitdamaged at 7:00 PM on March 2, 2004


Well, The Nation has (sort of) endorsed Kerry. This might well be the kiss of death, but I hope not. Meanwhile, British conservatives, according to George Osborne [Registration required but recommended, for future use] in this week's Spectator cover story, prefer Kerry to Bush. Hmmm... I hope!

Me, I love Kerry and am looking forward to having a clever, assertive, Kerry-dominating Portuguese First Lady in the White House - and screw my republican sympathies and George Walker Bush! A touch of lazy, boozy, tolerant, civilized, easy-going, pleasantly melancholy Atlantic Portugueseness is just what America needs right now.

Think Heinz beans - but delicately laced with garlic and olive oil and served with perfectly fried fresh fish and a scrumptiously crisp lettuce and tomato salad, washed down with a bottle or two of young, bone-dry white wine! ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 7:01 PM on March 2, 2004


Matteo's right about Edwards being a poor attack dog.

The other thing to remember about Edwards as veep: picture him on a debate stage with Cheney. Is it youthful and cute versus the Dark Lord of Evil, or is it callow youth versus solid brains and experience?



Can I bet too amber?
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:02 PM on March 2, 2004


I'm running out of cash, Cunning--how about a swap or thing or something? : >

aw, thanks opus--it's a bet!

and thanks poopy! (i hope i'd never need to tho--but maybe to hide out when phase 2 of Bush's spiritual plans go into effect? poopy's new underground railroad?)
posted by amberglow at 7:07 PM on March 2, 2004


ok amber, you're on. This is a bet I sincerely hope I lose.
posted by mathowie at 7:10 PM on March 2, 2004


ok--now go put it in the sidebar--let's make it public! ; >
posted by amberglow at 7:13 PM on March 2, 2004


I wonder how many people won't like Kerry because he's a Yankee?

Among the considerations of what gives a candidate "electability", New England seems to have a bad reputation--call it the New England curse.

Real or not, how great is the perception out there? Out West, New England seems to be closer to England than America.
posted by kablam at 7:14 PM on March 2, 2004


Miguel, please don't belittle the Heinz by comparing it to politics, that's just disgusting! :)

and amberglow, don't forget a little wager we made way back in the bygone. i know i won't :)

posted by poopy at 7:16 PM on March 2, 2004


amber,
I'll let you crash on my couch for a while after these guys have ruined you, OK?

posted by matteo at 7:16 PM on March 2, 2004


I just want to know exactly when the Domokun thread goes up because I think there's going to be a rush for a specific EV count.

When Opus said "infantilized" I thought he meant what I was thinking- that this entire election is pretty much going to be over how you think Florida and Ohio will swing.

kablam- I think any concern over Kerry being a Yankee will be countered by the equally rational vote-basing of Bush being an idiot.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 7:16 PM on March 2, 2004


don't worry matteo--i have faith that Kerry will be whipped into shape by November--it'll be very close tho.

and poopy, was that the one where i promised to name my kids "poopy" ? ; >
posted by amberglow at 7:24 PM on March 2, 2004


I think Opus is correct -- Kerry's positive rating vs. Bush has much to do with the fact that because there is no race for the Republican nomination, media attention has been focused on picking the winner of the Democratic nomination -- generating a wealth of free press for Kerry and Edwards as they became the "favorites." Right now, a large number of people are very "Why -- Kerry! look how tall and smart and serious! Also a veteran! And hm, yes, things have rather sucked with the economy...and the tax thing really isn't helping me...and Iraq is still going on or something..."

But Karl Rove is biding his time. Biding it. And after he's opened the Evil Drawer (bottom right-hand corner of the desk, natch), those same people are going to be "Well, Bush IS the President. And his simplicity is so simple and simply strong! ...and Kerry smoked pot with Jane Fonda, and performed all those gay marriages, and I just feel SAFER with someone who has, you know, the experience."
posted by BT at 7:27 PM on March 2, 2004


amberglow, you are truly one of the coolest people here. sillyhead :)
posted by poopy at 7:32 PM on March 2, 2004


"Kerry seems the easiest to beat with his skeltons and stances on issues. Edwards seemed to be the Clinton clone that was unbeatable and talked about hope." - not so fast.

Kerry knows a few things which haven't cropped up in this discussion. 1) He can trump - or match - W's "National Security Card" (Osama or not) in that he's got the resume, 2) He's a bone fide war hero, 3) He'll give as bad - or worse - than he gets from G W Bush. 4) He's less full of shit 5) The US is losing jobs at a frightening clip.

Kerry knows one fundamental fact which has escaped previous Democratic candidates and the pundit herds and - for this - he will win : "it is better to be strong and wrong then weak and right" (Bill Clinton) - Kerry knows this fact cold, he's less full of shit than G W Bush, and the US is bleeding jobs.

My $50 is on Kerry. Cash on the barrel, with amberglow.
posted by troutfishing at 7:45 PM on March 2, 2004


Omigod, fake democrat Mickey Kaus doesn't like Kerry? I never would have guessed that, from the fact he dedicates his blog to hammering Kerry every single day!
posted by subgenius at 7:45 PM on March 2, 2004


aw....well, i'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. (It's just too bad that Kerry will spend his whole first term doing damage control, and trying to repair the mess Bush is making of everything.)

on preview: cool, trout! you bet with Cunning...anyone else?
posted by amberglow at 7:46 PM on March 2, 2004


I agree. amberglow for DNC chairman.


mathowie is of course my choice for president, thomcatspike for Attorney General, y2karl as a Sorenson-style Special Assistant to the President, languagehat of course Secretary Of State, Linnwood at Defense (to throw a bone to the military and avoid a coup), clavdivs is the obvious choice for Director of Central Intelligence. MidasMulligan at Treasury, troutfishing would be an amazing Secretary Of Interior. skallas is the perfect man to run the Justice Dept Civil Rights division, I'd have owillis run the FBI and I'd love to see taz and dejah sworn in as SCOTUS justices. quonsar would be a great chairman of the FCC, dhartung UN Ambassador.
Foldy = Surgeon General, ├ža va sans dire. I just need a Red Sox fan for baseball commissioner, plus I have a few other names in mind for the rest of the MeFi cabinet but I'm keeping them for myself for now.


posted by matteo at 7:49 PM on March 2, 2004


Yes, we were all hoping for Sharpton, but what can you do? Damn whitey.
posted by skallas at 7:54 PM on March 2, 2004


stick madamjujujive in there somewhere, and owillis for Senate Majority Leader. You can have the House, matteo. : >
posted by amberglow at 7:54 PM on March 2, 2004


madamjujujive? I'm thinking CDC director. owillis in the Senate? well, the FBI looks like a nice place for him, doesn't it?
me? I'm not a citizen, amber. so I'd have to marry one of you guys in Massachusetts first, and then get the citizenship. Boston Mayor MayorCurley will have to officiate, I guess. I'd marry Linnwood, but then I'd destroy his chances for the Pentagon. Any volunteers?

also, it'll just be too much fun to watch Canadian Prime Minister stravros renegotiate NAFTA with MidasMulligan


romakimmy is already the de-facto US Ambassador to Italy, so I'd just make that official


posted by matteo at 8:02 PM on March 2, 2004


Politics are fun.
posted by MidasMulligan at 8:04 PM on March 2, 2004


who gets veep? how about jonmc or thomcat or maybe konolia?
posted by amberglow at 8:08 PM on March 2, 2004


also, it'll just be too much fun to watch Canadian Prime Minister stravros renegotiate NAFTA with MidasMulligan

Oddly, my wife (who, at the time, was working on Latin affairs for the US Chamber of Commerce), helped write several parts of NAFTA.

The lines between fanciful metaphor and reality become thinner everyday.

Politics are fun.
posted by MidasMulligan at 8:09 PM on March 2, 2004


Wait a minute. I just realized it is only March 2nd. Lordy, we've many months of weirdness ahead on big blue.
posted by MidasMulligan at 8:11 PM on March 2, 2004


I volunteer for Postmaster General, just because I look like Newman and talk like Cliff...

One economic factor worth noting: I heard a prediction today that the price of gasoline will hit $3 a gallon by the end of this year. Nothing will depress the economy and the electorate more than an unaffordable tank of gas when they haul out the SUVs for summer vacation. Can't the oil industry guys hold back until after their boy is re-elected? Very short-sided...
posted by wendell at 8:12 PM on March 2, 2004


bzzztt! conflict of interest--Midas is out at Treasury -- how about y6? (he handled iceland really well)

and wendell picks all the stamps : >
posted by amberglow at 8:13 PM on March 2, 2004


Yeah, Mickey Kaus = fake Democrat, but that doesn't mean he doesn't lay out Kerry's faults pretty well. Even so, I think Kerry can beat Bush. He might even be a good president, but any Democrat is going to have trouble with this Congress.

I voted for Edwards today (glad I voted before he dropped out) cause I thought it would be cool to keep the race going, because it's been fun watching Bush fight to get news coverage. Now the GOP knows the target, so things could be a little rough for Kerry from here on out. Kaus is firing the first shot in a way.

Democrats should be well aware of their guy's pluses and minuses, it's part of the game. Better to get slammed now than later. Now, there's the matter of veep. From the way Edwards through roses to Kerry in his Georgia speech, and the release of tape showing Kerry laughing and applauding Edwards, I think you're looking at a done deal on par with Kennedy/Johnson, two men who loathed each other but knew they needed each other. Whether Edwards will help in the south, I dunno, but he has something Kerry doesn't have, a natural appeal.

But there could be any number of better choices.

My one other wish is that the Kerry campaign put Ted Kennedy in an attic somewhere, he was screaming like Dean tonight, he's scary.
posted by Slagman at 8:24 PM on March 2, 2004


I think Richardson for veep--or a woman.
posted by amberglow at 8:25 PM on March 2, 2004


It seems we have our own shadow government here, ready for national emergencies - if the nation should require our service.

So - when do we get a fallout shelter and our own dedicated parking spaces ?
posted by troutfishing at 8:30 PM on March 2, 2004


Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the United States of America to the Republic of Mauritius, please. (I just want a paycheck, some sun, some quiet, and some respect.)
posted by Opus Dark at 8:31 PM on March 2, 2004


...And when will I get to know the truth about aliens?
posted by troutfishing at 8:35 PM on March 2, 2004


We're here. what else do you want to know?
posted by Opus Dark at 8:39 PM on March 2, 2004


I'll take Porn Czar.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:43 PM on March 2, 2004


For $1000?
posted by trondant at 8:48 PM on March 2, 2004


ok...Crash as Porn Czar, and trondant as Hookers 'n' Blow Czar
posted by amberglow at 8:57 PM on March 2, 2004


I wonder how many people won't like Kerry because he's a Yankee?

As opposed to the current president who was born in Connecticut, raised in Maine and educated at Exeter, Yale and Harvard?

(Yeah, I know. He has a fakey southern accent and makes CONSTANT references to Texas...)
posted by Mayor Curley at 9:13 PM on March 2, 2004


You know, I watched Kerry's speech this afternoon on BBC World, and even though he's a bad and ponderous orator (although still light-years beyond Bush's pathetic shifty-eyed scriptreading, of course), even though it's all mostly just election-sloganeering bullshit, I had the first stirrings in my black black heart of something besides anger and resentment against America that I've had in years. Felt like hope. Smelled a little like teen spirit. It was an odd sensation.

I may not be a praying man, but I pray that Kerry beats Bush, I really do, and that he actually does make an attempt to cut through the corruption that has brought America so close to the brink of being a force for unmitigated evil in the world, and actually does do something to address the real, systemic problems that the country faces, both inside its borders and without.

Hope. About America's future. From me. Who'd'a thunk it?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:22 PM on March 2, 2004


From me. Who'd'a thunk it?
Cue Apocalypse in 5... 4... 3... 2... 1...

Seriously though, I've never been the biggest Kerry booster (I voted for Edwards today in Mass., talk about a lost cause) but he most certainly isn't Dukakis. Thanks to Howard Dean I think the era of "I'm Just Like The President, Only I Support Tax Cuts for the Kinda Rich but Not Super Rich -- if that's Okay with President Bush" Democrats is over.
posted by owillis at 9:29 PM on March 2, 2004


The last thing that Democrats need to do right now is to attack the character of their own candidate, or start handicapping the race. Really, Kerry is the most progressive Democratic candidate we've had to vote for since Carter... and he's arguably a far better, more experienced, more astute leader.

There are dozens of scandals and skeletons in the Bush administration closet which will be played out rather publically before all this is through, and precious little new dirt which can be thrown at Kerry. Take a look at the polls and the changing mood of the country... Bush is vulnerable.

We need to view this election as a chance for unity within the party. To win, we need Dean's grassroots army, Edwards' hope and optimism, Kucinich's integrity, Clark's tough talking, and Mosley-Braun's truthtalking.

In the fight ahead, it's a team effort -- the Justice League vs. the Legion of Doom. The lights can go on again throughout America, or the lights can go out for another four years. If you respect the policies and agenda of your favorite candidate, by all means, you should work with them and with your fellow supporters to assist the party, raise funds, and contribute to the greater good. United we stand, divided we fall. Are *you* standing?!

If the Democrats lose this one, it won't be because they chose Kerry over anyone else. It will be because they never really believed that they could win it.
posted by insomnia_lj at 10:20 PM on March 2, 2004


"Even the Democrat" Mickey Kaus. Hmmph.

Why does this guy still have a job at Slate? He's a third rate gossip columnist pretending to be a political pundit whose man-bites-dog-"i'm-a-democrat-but.." schtick is so tired that people only read him at this point because they hate him so much. Which I guess explains why he's still at Slate.
posted by pitchblende at 10:30 PM on March 2, 2004


matteo:
he has no military service to speak of so he doesn't even look hawkish.

Please tell me you're kidding. I can't believe anyone let this slip by. Kerry has no military service? No military service?

He may not be the electric spark the Dems need to get their heart going, but Kerry has the best chance of all the contenders. I'd love to see a Kerry-Edwards ticket because I'm an idealist at heart, but as long as he doesn't do something terribly stupid like putting another New Englander on the ticket, he'll do fine.

Anyone ever see Kerry debate? It's precisely because he's been in "the system" for so long that he'll tear Bush a new asshole -- just look at what a fool he made Gov. Weld look like, and Weld wasn't a retarded brat with aspirations of being a cowboy. I wish the primary were going on longer just to keep Kerry sharp, but frankly a butterknife will look sharp on stage against Bush. Just wait and see. Bush better be up every night practicing with his advisors if he's gonna make it through the debates without losing credibility. There's a big difference between "plain-speaking" and "plain-dumb", and I am absolutely giddy at the prospect of watching Bush fold under pressure into a stammering, stuttering, blathering fool.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 11:01 PM on March 2, 2004


Civil Disobedient: Matteo was talking about Edwards. And don't you remember 2000 at all? Bush's whole thing is playing the expectations game. If he comes out of a debate looking only slightly better than "plain dumb," then the media will present it as a major victory, and they'll side with him. You can't underestimate him until he's a lame duck.
posted by stopgap at 11:23 PM on March 2, 2004


Real or not, how great is the perception out there? Out West, New England seems to be closer to England than America.

I've been thinking about this, and the best way to undo the Dukakis curse is to have compare Kerry to another Democratic Senator from Mass... JFK.

Come out, point out how divided the country is, explain that re-electing bush will not solve this schism, or bring back jobs, or protect the economy or Social Security, and present a bold vision of a safe, brighter tomorrow.

And if Kerry tries my strategy, I, of course, expect royalty payments or at least an administration position.
posted by drezdn at 11:47 PM on March 2, 2004


yup. Bush is going down. How can he not? He's failed at everything else as president, he's going to fail in his reelection bid as well. Everyone knows his 'uniter, not divider' thing is BS. He thinks his base can pull it off for him and it won't.

Name one thing bush has acomplished, for the people of the US, during his presidency.
posted by delmoi at 11:47 PM on March 2, 2004


he looked really tough after Lower Manhattan got bombed by really bad non-Christian brown people.
he looked really really tough, talked tough on TV and stuff, delmoi. giving the impression that he was going to really take care of those bad people.

whether that was enough for the American voters to give him another four years, we'll see in November.
it may be hard to prove a negative, so to speak, because if he has failed and America is not safer than She was on 9-10-2001, She will get hit again. but She may get hit again after November, so his national security failing won't come back to bite him in the ass as far as elections are concerned. and if America is hit before the election, everybody will be shocked that attacking the President for not having protected America enough will be out of the question -- unpatriotic and all in a time of war. Karl Rove knows this. that's why the "War President" thing is so effective. great for the right-wing base, for the centrists, etc. the weakness of this strategy, as pointed out already, is that the country's economy is not in good shape and people kind of noticed it. they also noticed that W, like Poppy, does not really seem to have a clue about is going on in a regular American economic life.

CivilDisobedient,
what stopgap said. re-read my comment. I was talking about Edwards
posted by matteo at 1:19 AM on March 3, 2004


We need to view this election as a chance for unity within the party. To win, we need Dean's grassroots army, Edwards' hope and optimism, Kucinich's integrity, Clark's tough talking, and Mosley-Braun's truthtalking.

hey, you forgot sharpton's....erm....sharpton's...uhh...well, you just forgot sharpton.
posted by joedan at 3:26 AM on March 3, 2004


This is so going to beat the hell out of my Kibbles 'n' Bits Czar appointment under Clinton.

Arf.
posted by trondant at 3:53 AM on March 3, 2004


> Name one thing bush has acomplished, for the people of the US, during his presidency.

He's given a lot of twits terminal apoplexy. The only person who gets a bigger gold star for this is Ralph, who has managed to turn all those same silly rabbits into enraged Ralph-haters, who were all Ralph-idolaters for so long. Great going, guys, both of you! Oh, and George has compelled a lot of folks on the left to take vocal anti-spending, anti-deficit positions which they would never in a million years have taken were it not for Bush-hate. I'm keeping a detailed quote book, for later.

I suppose when the moment comes I'll put on three layers of latex, hold my nose and vote Kerry. Having a Dem president and a Republican congress might put a slight clot in the hemorrhagic spending, and I expect Kerry to sell out on enough culture-war issues to more or less earn his keep.
posted by jfuller at 5:05 AM on March 3, 2004


George has compelled a lot of folks on the left to take vocal anti-spending, anti-deficit positions which they would never in a million years have taken were it not for Bush-hate.

Right, it wasn't a Dem president who reformed welfare, cut military spending, signed NAFTA and presided over budget surpluses. It's been at least 20 years since the Republicans=fiscal responsibility, Democrats=entitlements for all dichotomy has been stood on its head.
posted by crank at 6:00 AM on March 3, 2004


IMHO, the race is the Democrats' to lose. Kerry may be getting disporportionate media attention because of the primaries, but the Bush Administration is hemorrhaging bad news- Iraq is an utter debacle, Haiti's shaping up to be a major embarassment, and what economic growth we do have isn't benefitting the common guy. The "hot button" issue of choice for the GOP- gay marriage- isn't unifying their core base. The press isn't giving him a pass anymore. None of Kerry's perceived "problems" are nearly as bad as Bush's.

Do you know what will lead to a GOP victory? Endless Democratic worry-warting over whether Kerry is "good enough". Compared to Bush, my fucking cat is good enough. Stop being a bunch of pussies.
posted by mkultra at 7:02 AM on March 3, 2004


Kerry/Whoever 04: Stop Being a Bunch of Pussies
i like it!
posted by amberglow at 7:18 AM on March 3, 2004


My opinion is that Bush will win. I'm not saying that to argue with those of you who want Kerry to win. It's just so that I can gloat when he does win. Going on record, and all.

When, and if, I expect considerable humbleness from y'all.

Don't even bother responding now, unless you wish to freak, then go ahead. It can wait 'til whenever it is that the elections are held.
posted by kablam at 7:22 AM on March 3, 2004


and I'd love to see taz and dejah sworn in as SCOTUS justices.

Hey, can we have MJJJ too? Then my friends, the Supreme Court would be a fun place to be. ;)

As to the topic of anointed front runners...this is just one more reason that I think our primary system is faulty. Our state doesn't have it's primaries until next week. The choices have already been made, our votes are nothing but symbolic at this point. (Which is why I'm still voting for Dennis in the primaries...I love that little crazy bastard.)

Our entire electoral system needs to be brought into line with our population and cultural advances over the last 200 years. The processes that were required in the days of horse and buggy are hardly appropriate for the 21 century.

If we're going to call ourselves a democracy, (despite the fact that we're a republic), then by gods, we should enable every vote to make a difference.

All that being said, now that Kerry is the presumed heir to the Democrat seat, expect the press to turn on him like wolverines. The Cheney-Rove machine is clicking into action. It's going to be a long, ugly, acrimonious year.
posted by dejah420 at 7:39 AM on March 3, 2004


Anyone ever see Kerry debate? It's precisely because he's been in "the system" for so long that he'll tear Bush a new asshole -- just look at what a fool he made Gov. Weld look like, and Weld wasn't a retarded brat with aspirations of being a cowboy.

Don't count on a debate. Anybody remember the McGovern-Nixon debate? Thought so...

Do expect a lot of Bush speeches given on military bases with the obligatory Hoo-Ah Chorus. There will be plenty of flags, too...
posted by y2karl at 8:27 AM on March 3, 2004


Expect also to see many vets speaking out against Bush and Iraq...I also hope to see recently wounded in Iraq vets trotted out by the Kerry campaign (if they're smart) to counteract Bush's military base appearances.
posted by amberglow at 8:42 AM on March 3, 2004


I would like to play some sort of Richard Perle role. As my first action, I'd like to encourage a full-scale invasion of, well, anywhere! WHoever it is, they hate our freedom!
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 8:45 AM on March 3, 2004


Expect also to see many vets speaking out against Bush and Iraq...I also hope to see recently wounded in Iraq vets trotted out by the Kerry campaign (if they're smart) to counteract Bush's military base appearances.

Then you will have this from the Bush supporters. John Kerry's Vietnam War service medals (a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts) were earned under "fishy" circumstances.
posted by thomcatspike at 9:32 AM on March 3, 2004


When, and if, I expect considerable humbleness from y'all.

OK. This is the sentiment that drives me the most nuts about contemporary American politics. It's not a fucking basketball game. It's great to care deeply about politics-- on either side-- but if you act like it's just a goddamned sports call-in show ripe for smack talk, well, you really need to think about what you've really got invested in the process.

And it's on both sides. High-fiving and "go team" rhetoric is irritating if it's for Kerry, Bush, Nader, or Fred the Lightning Monkey.

If you have a policy preference, articulate it. If you want to analyze the likelt campaign strategies, that's pretty interesting. But if you want to cheerlead, go buy a Lakers jersey.
posted by COBRA! at 9:48 AM on March 3, 2004


"Bush is vulnerable."

No. Bush is a flaming train wreck. I don't understand why people understate this. More people hate us than ever, debt is worse than ever, we're more in fear for our national security than ever, trade issues are worse than ever. Jobs? Bad. Consumer confidence? Bad. Church and state issues? Both sides losing. Privacy and due process protections weakened.

At a time when we needed a president to tackle foreign policy, terrorism, and the economy head-on and full time, we got a president fully committed to taking out a toothless Saddam, and elevating things like same-sex marriage and human cloning.

Bush is the National Enquirer president.

It's not that he's vulnerable. It's that he's a laughingstock here and around the world. He's made us look bad, and he's done nothing to fix the problems he inherited.

And to top it all off he thinks history will vindicate this.

Bush is wrong.
posted by y6y6y6 at 10:34 AM on March 3, 2004


what stopgap said. re-read my comment. I was talking about Edwards

My apologies; I clearly missed that the first read-a-round. :)
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 5:33 PM on March 3, 2004


thomcatspike

i'm sure you realize that link actually debunked the lie about Kerry's medals (snopes)
posted by Slagman at 6:48 PM on March 3, 2004


I want a dem to win, but I have a feeling Kerry's gonna end up totally Dukakising on us.

Actually, I see Kerry winning this one. Think back to '92. Everybody thought that after Gulf War I, Bush Sr. had the election sewn up, but the shitty economy and other stuff worked against him and Clinton won, plus they tried the whole "family values"/culture war shtick back then and it blew up in their faces. And frustration with W. is running a lot higher than it did with Senior.

But I'm not even planning on voting, so what the hell do I know?
posted by jonmc at 7:21 PM on March 3, 2004


*cue punk rock music*
posted by matteo at 7:26 PM on March 3, 2004


*takes off punk rock, puts on Crazy Elephant instead, froogs around listlessly win a jock strap and straw boater*

Actually, I'm not abstaining out of any gesture of anarchy or bullshit like that. I just be fuckin' bothered this time around for some reason. And I won't be missed.
posted by jonmc at 7:30 PM on March 3, 2004


you will jon...vote--for the children (or something)
posted by amberglow at 7:32 PM on March 3, 2004


The children are running for president? We should vote for them, since this crackhead woman told me they're our future or something.
posted by jonmc at 7:37 PM on March 3, 2004


see? there you go! listen to the crackhead woman (and vote--maybe for little Bobbi Christina Houston Brown or whatever her name is?) ; >
posted by amberglow at 7:42 PM on March 3, 2004


You can put way too much stock in an election, or get way too fired up over one person, etc., or wrongly think you have to "believe" in a politician, etc. But I could have bullet wounds and blood streaming down my face, etc. and still somehow make my way to the polls in November. If somebody hits me head on before precinct closing time, and I'm conscious, I'll still ask my medical team if there's still a way I can get there.
posted by raysmj at 8:55 PM on March 3, 2004


*froogs around listlessly win a jock strap and straw boater*

Now there's an image I'm not gonna get rid of any time soon.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:48 PM on March 3, 2004


i'm sure you realize that link actually debunked the lie about Kerry's medals (snopes
yep
posted by thomcatspike at 3:09 PM on March 4, 2004


If somebody hits me head on before precinct closing time, and I'm conscious, I'll still ask my medical team if there's still a way I can get there.

Are you a black Floridian? 'Cause that might happen.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 5:40 PM on March 4, 2004


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