Comments on: Gays versus God?

Gays versus God?

ChristFollower — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 06:20:19 -0800

MillionForChrist.com? Gays versus God? Looks like there's a race between people who support Christ and people who support same-sex marriages. They're both looking for a million signatures. Conincidence? Any bets on who's gonna win?

By: Postroad

Postroad — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 06:28:12 -0800

I am not a gay but it seems to me that god in all his wisdom created gays, otherwise his creation would have been shown wanting in intelligent design...What god has rendered let no man (or judge or court or straight) put asunder.

By: Mayor Curley

Mayor Curley — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 06:32:47 -0800

(1 million people praying for 1 hour is like 114 years of continuous prayer!) Because we all know that God's a megalomaniacal dad-- he already agrees with your plans, but he won't help you until you get your friends to help you beg. (1 million people on a 3 hour outreach could mean 6 million new believers that day!) *odds against everyone meeting two desperate, unstable, terminally lonely people per hour: 1 in 1,000,000,000.

By: troutfishing

troutfishing — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 06:41:33 -0800

Which petition would Jesus sign? And, of the people who claim to support Christ - I think all their "support" makes the baby Jesus cry. Loudly.

By: psychotic_venom

psychotic_venom — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 06:52:05 -0800

Arguing that because something is natural it isn't immoral is an invalid argument.

By: donth

donth — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:06:53 -0800

Looks like there's a race between people who support Christ and people who support same-sex marriages. These are not mutually exclusive.

By: grabbingsand

grabbingsand — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:19:12 -0800

Any bets on who's gonna win? Any bets on who's on both lists? The two are not mutually exclusive, except when twisted beyond the simple concept of "love thy neighbor as thyself."

By: JoanArkham

JoanArkham — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:20:20 -0800

I've signed some petitions in my time, but I doubt any of them have ever done any good...and web petitions doubly so. What's the point?

By: moonbird

moonbird — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:30:35 -0800

Okay, I'm usually very mellow and conciliatory, but this just burns my proverbial britches. Fundamentalist 'Christians' do not have a monopoly on the faith. There are millions for Christ and that's very nice, but not all million people view Christ the same way. I know many devout Christian gays (I'm gay but not Christian in the big 'c' sense) and I don't think it's remotely fair to say we're in a state of gays versus God. It's a ridiculous notion and two entirely separate issues. No one is trying to take faith away from from the Christians, and they can continue to exercise it as they wish, but not within the purview of making and influencing laws. /rant

By: John Kenneth Fisher

John Kenneth Fisher — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 07:54:50 -0800

I've signed some petitions in my time, but I doubt any of them have ever done any good...and web petitions doubly so. What's the point? Normally, I'd agree, but I signed the Millionsformarriage one. My rationale is this: If the other side goes to a politician wavering on the Hate amendment, and says "Look, we got one MILLION signatures online in just a few days. Clearly the constituency agrees with adding discrimination to the constitution," it just might be enough to edge them in that direction. If, however, it is possible to come back with "That means nothing, one million people signed that they opposed the amendment in the same amount of time" than the original petition is proved meaningless. In that case, it returns simply to whether the politician is willing to make a stand against immoral behavior and acts, such as discrimination.

By: devon

devon — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 08:01:18 -0800

I don't see anything 'versus' between these two sites. But if a million people prayed at once. Isn't that just a DoS attack?

By: malphigian

malphigian — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 08:03:16 -0800

If the other side goes to a politician wavering on the Hate amendment, and says "Look, we got one MILLION signatures online in just a few days. Clearly the constituency agrees with adding discrimination to the constitution," The millionforchrist.com doesn't even mention gay marriage or any other political issue -- there would be very, very little there to take to a politician. The people running the site may very well be opposed to gay marriage, but it'd be a pretty exceptional bit of deceit to claim all their signatures are from people of similar view points. The poster of this thread was disingenious -- there very well could be people ready to sign both these petitions, he was just projecting his own opinion of what it means to be a christian.

By: JoanArkham

JoanArkham — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 08:10:59 -0800

Yeah, I signed Million for Marriage too, figured it couldn't hurt. I just hope that everyone who signed also remembers to go VOTE.

By: 2sheets

2sheets — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 09:09:21 -0800

"1 million people praying for 1 hour is like 114 years of continuous prayer!" Uh, that's fascinating. Have we also determined how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? How about how many yetis it takes to screw in a light bulb? And you expect us to take your anti-intellectual, humanity loathing, slave religion seriously?

By: Seth

Seth — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:05:01 -0800

And you expect us to take your anti-intellectual, humanity loathing, slave religion seriously? posted by 2sheets at 11:09 AM CST on April 12 Though I respect your right to choose your own ethos, does it require you to diminish the religious views of the majority of this country? While you can choose not to believe, do you think you could choose to respect others right to do so? In a related story, the Passion tops the chart again, closing in on $400 million and the number 5 all-time movie. Perhaps that large number of peope who do follow a religion might not all be "anti-intellectual, humanity-loathing slaves." (Isn't it still possible to disagree with someone without treating them like scum for viewing things differently?)

By: larry_darrell

larry_darrell — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:07:45 -0800

God seems to be quite concerned about the U.S.

By: Seth

Seth — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:19:42 -0800

[This is bad] I wonder why the poster chose to juxtapose the two sites. My only guess is re-start a colossal and un-fruitful argument over a contentious issue. But for the main link, there doesn't seem to be any relation to the secondary link (other than the symmetry of site names). The two should not be construed as mutually exclusive, so perhaps they shouldn't be treated like they are. The desired discussion won't follow here because people cannot respect the positions of others.

By: gesamtkunstwerk

gesamtkunstwerk — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:20:20 -0800

Any bets on who's gonna win? This is the kind of puerile crap that lowers the quality political discourse in America. These million signature drives for petitions, marches, puce ribbons for XYZ are not exactly meaningless, they do get citizens to rally around a cause. But they also foster a dangerous illusion that is holding the U.S. back on almost every front: if we get enough people behind us, we can "win" a debate, and make the other side go away. Your million signatures are not going to make me stop screwing my boyfriend in every state we can afford to get to. Our one million signatures for gay marriage are not going to stop the ground swell of fundamentalists who want to turn the U.S. into a religious state. If people shed these illusions that we can win and make other people go away, we might be able to find some common ground, and do something significant, like elect a president who isn't glaringly incompetent. Just a thought. P.S. (I signed your lousey petition just to soil it)

By: swell

swell — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:38:19 -0800

ChristFollower - I looked over that link to millionforchrist.com, and I didn't see anything indicating any political agenda, much less anything about gay people. Could you point out what led you to believe they feel that way?

By: scarabic

scarabic — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:44:53 -0800

I find it hilarious that there's even a contest between beliving in something imaginary and recognizing something real that's right in front of us.

By: ChristFollower

ChristFollower — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 10:59:35 -0800

I'm impressed. Some very mature and aware people out there. My title was an intentional attempt to get people fired up and thinking. I apologize for the juvenile title/note and respect the comments that attacked it (if not agree with many of them). I apologize sincerely if I offended anyone. I noticed a lot of attacks on religion. Religion is a man made construct and is a horrible thing when we use it to condemn others - I agree. However, we should be careful not to attack God because of the shortcomings of Man. God seeks relationship with ALL people and commands ALL people to love Him and to love ALL people. If someone hates or condemns someone else, they're not following Jesus.

By: ChristFollower

ChristFollower — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:05:47 -0800

Swell - I just found it interesting that both sites were looking for a million people, both were running about the same time and that both sites were called MillionForSomething. Perhaps I saw something that wasn't there and I apologize for my mistake. Perhaps one inspired the other. We'd have to ask the people who made them...

By: Armitage Shanks

Armitage Shanks — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:28:58 -0800

God seeks relationship with ALL people and commands ALL people to love Him God clearly has self-esteem issues. I think He should get a puppy.

By: jsonic

jsonic — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:33:44 -0800

While you can choose not to believe, do you think you could choose to respect others right to do so? How was the person this quote responded to disrespecting anyone's right to believe? He made statements that criticized a certain religion, but I didn't see him trying to restrict your right to religious freedom. Please notice the important difference.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:42:17 -0800

Here's what I realized last night: Christ is all about love. His entire documented ministry was all about healing the sick, helping lepers, treating whores with respect, loving his fellow man. Yes, he talked about other stuff. But what he did was love. So let's all play WWJD. In this day and age, were the Christ to be ministering in America, what would he be doing? Would he be condemning people to hell? Would he be calling for the stoning of queers? Would he try to overthrow the government, to replace it with His Own Rule? Or would he concern himself with the daily lives of people, encouraging them to love and respect one another? Would the Christ feel that allowing gay civil marriage would increase or decrease the amount of love and respect in America? I think the Christ would be right onboard with allowing the areligious government to write whatever rules it wants on the establishment of marriage. It would be an earthly law, not of his concern. The Christ might spend his days preaching to those who would willingly listen that homosexual sex is an abomination. He might try laying on hands of those who come to him seeking to be healed of their sexual depravity. He surely would not attempt to force people to listen to him. He would not encourage his followers to stone the queers. And I am extremely certain he would not try to prevent the areligous government from changing its rules on marriage. In fact, I'm pretty sure Christ would support any laws that increased the amount of love in our society. Because the bottom line is always this: the Christ is all about love. WWJD? He'd increase the love.

By: Mayor Curley

Mayor Curley — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:49:40 -0800

"WWJD" is pretty irrelevant to a group of people who are looking for others to hate. If Jesus appeared to the masses and said "You really didn't get it. By your standards, I'm not a Christian," everyone would shrug. The Christians would either say "You don't know what you're talking about! Read the more vicious parts of the Bible!" or start looking for someone else to pervert the teachings of. The bottom line is that people don't hate gays because of their faith. They elected to keep their faith (and alter it) because it condemns people and beliefs that they already hated.

By: fold_and_mutilate

fold_and_mutilate — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:10:24 -0800

In a related story, the Passion tops the chart again, closing in on $400 million and the number 5 all-time movie. Perhaps that large number of peope who do follow a religion might not all be "anti-intellectual, humanity-loathing slaves." [This is stupidest non-sequitur seen on MetaFilter recently.] If someone hates or condemns someone else, they're not following Jesus. Perhaps the American "Christians" who still misguidedly support the United States in current militaristic exercises could explain what Christ might have had this nation do differently. But then again, that crackpot obviously didn't have legitimate worries.... like gassing an SUV.

By: ChristFollower

ChristFollower — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:34:38 -0800

WWJD? He'd share his opinions without belittling others...he'd attack concepts, not people. His goal would be to help the people He's arguing with, not harm them.

By: stonerose

stonerose — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:39:18 -0800

...like gassing an SUV. Gas an SUV, and it just keeps going. Gas the driver, and we all win. /inflammatory joke

By: SpaceCadet

SpaceCadet — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 12:49:23 -0800

Arguing that because something is natural it isn't immoral is an invalid argument. Good point.

By: ferociouskitty

ferociouskitty — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 13:05:47 -0800

Just as an aside, has anyone seen the new commercials for the United Church of Christ? I caught one last week and loved it.

By: y2karl

y2karl — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:17:11 -0800

WWJD? He'd share his opinions without belittling others...he'd attack concepts, not people. His goal would be to help the people He's arguing with, not harm them. We could all use some of that old time religion. ChristFollower, you wear your faith as your nick and have made a gentle post. I have no problem at all with it and hope people treat you with the same respect which you are showing to them.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:40:27 -0800

I think the WWJD meme is important for the move to legalize homosexual marriages. It needs to be used whenever someone shows an anti-equality without any logic or reason behind it. "WWJD? He'd choose love. He'd do whatever increases the love and peace in this world. He'd want homosexual marriages to be legally recognized. He'd choose more love." Regardless the religion of the opponent, choosing the side of love is always the best choice. Love is bigger than religious factions, political parties, general ickiness, and thick-headedness. WWJD? Love. Even us atheists have to agree with that sentiment. Even areligious lunkheads who disagree with homosexuality because they think it's icky have gotta agree that Love is better.

By: biffa

biffa — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:43:50 -0800

So, if I release a million potential voters into a kleenex when I get home tonight will God have to decide whether I'm thinking gay thoughts when I let them go, or what? WWJD? Crack one off for the Lord.

By: mote

mote — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:58:58 -0800

I'm confused. What's the point of MillionforChrist? I don't see any agenda there other than putting one's name on a really big list. Curious bit from the MFC privacy policy: they won't divulge any names or email addresses, so nobody will be able to tell that you signed it at all. The privacy policy also leaks that it's hosted by TheBetterCompany.com, which looks like an opt-in list purveyor. Are they just there to harvest emails for Christian email lists?

By: inpHilltr8r

inpHilltr8r — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:18:17 -0800

What Would Paul Do?

By: snarfodox

snarfodox — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:32:50 -0800

mote> I'm confused. What's the point of MillionforChrist? I don't see any agenda there other than putting one's name on a really big list. Don't worry about it, it's an NSA thing. They™ are collecting the names of christian extremists to feed to the database (a.k.a. "the beast") that will identify the next generation of probable terrorists₁. [1. This conspiracy theory has been brought to you by the letters NSA and the number 666.] mote> Are they just there to harvest emails for Christian email lists? I hate to repeat myself, but who could possibly pass up the opportunity to compile a mailing list of hundreds of thousands of people who self-identify as not being predisposed to scepticism? This, dear friends, is market stalking by a high level financial predator looking for the sick and the lame amongst the market flock.

By: troutfishing

troutfishing — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:58:37 -0800

It does look a bit slick, I must agree.

By: moonbird

moonbird — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 21:18:00 -0800

Metafilter: Crack one off for the Lord.

By: onlyconnect

onlyconnect — Mon, 12 Apr 2004 22:30:16 -0800

Strictly for the record, the winner in the Million for Christ vs. Million for Marriage face off is: Million for Marriage!!!

By: Ignatius J. Reilly

Ignatius J. Reilly — Tue, 13 Apr 2004 00:09:11 -0800

What Would Paul Do? I didn't spit anything on my monitor, but I did sort of choke in an acutely painful way. Funny stuff, inpHilltr8r.

By: onlyconnect

onlyconnect — Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:25:54 -0800

Closure on this thread: ChristFollower was not really all that Christian.