Just Wall it Off
April 12, 2004 3:26 PM Subscribe
Brazil Wants to Build a Wall Social and economic problems out of control? No problem. Brazil plans to literally build a 10 foot wall to separate the haves from the have nots.
The elite in America already build walls around themselves.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:36 PM on April 12, 2004
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:36 PM on April 12, 2004
cough. mexican border. cough.
posted by andrew cooke at 3:38 PM on April 12, 2004
posted by andrew cooke at 3:38 PM on April 12, 2004
muppetboy - with our gated communities, luxury SUVs and toll roads, how far are we from that anyway?
Regarding Rio, may I simply utter the word: "legalize."
posted by scarabic at 3:39 PM on April 12, 2004
Regarding Rio, may I simply utter the word: "legalize."
posted by scarabic at 3:39 PM on April 12, 2004
As I understand it, the Rio plan will also separate the have-nots from other have-nots; that the authorities are trying to formalize criminal territories, so that it's impossible to fight over them.
An interesting approach, but it's unlikely to ever be built. It's just too easy to oppose, on too many grounds.
...as far as the broader issue of separating and subdividing populations, well, there's just too much to say.
posted by aramaic at 3:50 PM on April 12, 2004
An interesting approach, but it's unlikely to ever be built. It's just too easy to oppose, on too many grounds.
...as far as the broader issue of separating and subdividing populations, well, there's just too much to say.
posted by aramaic at 3:50 PM on April 12, 2004
An interesting approach, but it's unlikely to ever be built. It's just too easy to oppose, on too many grounds.
Hrm. See this informative page for a description of the turmoil surrounding the building of a wall to separate poor Roma citizens from 'white' Czechs in Usti nad Labem.
posted by stonerose at 4:06 PM on April 12, 2004
Hrm. See this informative page for a description of the turmoil surrounding the building of a wall to separate poor Roma citizens from 'white' Czechs in Usti nad Labem.
posted by stonerose at 4:06 PM on April 12, 2004
Building a wall around the poor is efficient and a good solution because it allows you to then pour boiling water and hot oil on them.
posted by xmutex at 4:08 PM on April 12, 2004
posted by xmutex at 4:08 PM on April 12, 2004
St Louis may as well declare downtown the DMZ and build a wall along Olive/Lindell or Delmar
posted by pieoverdone at 4:12 PM on April 12, 2004
posted by pieoverdone at 4:12 PM on April 12, 2004
They want to create some sort of theme park on drug and cocaine trafficking.
Westworld meets Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. Where nothing can ever go worng.
posted by SPrintF at 4:23 PM on April 12, 2004
Westworld meets Grand Theft Auto: Vice City. Where nothing can ever go worng.
posted by SPrintF at 4:23 PM on April 12, 2004
"....Another group, Global Justice, said the barrier would create social apartheid when what was needed was investment in poor communities.
However, the authorities in Rio state say the wall will help the security forces control the Rocinha and Vigidal favelas. or slums, where 1,200 officers have been on patrol since Friday......."The wall isn't to stop the violence, it is to mark off territory," said Mr Conde on Monday."
Here we have 3 different but logically mutually compatible functions for the proposed wall :
The wall will be - 1) a form of social apartheid, 2) a method of police control, and 3) A way of "marking territory"
About the 3rd function, I'd have to ask - is this marking the sort which dogs accomplish with urine ? And - if so - who would be doing the marking ? The mayor ?
___________________________________________
muppetboy - Brazil has had one of the fastest growing private security service sectors in the World for one, maybe two decades and - despite people's claims here, the cloistering off of the rich from the poor in the US has a LONG way to go.
But the people are friendly, and you can party on the beach.
posted by troutfishing at 4:30 PM on April 12, 2004
However, the authorities in Rio state say the wall will help the security forces control the Rocinha and Vigidal favelas. or slums, where 1,200 officers have been on patrol since Friday......."The wall isn't to stop the violence, it is to mark off territory," said Mr Conde on Monday."
Here we have 3 different but logically mutually compatible functions for the proposed wall :
The wall will be - 1) a form of social apartheid, 2) a method of police control, and 3) A way of "marking territory"
About the 3rd function, I'd have to ask - is this marking the sort which dogs accomplish with urine ? And - if so - who would be doing the marking ? The mayor ?
___________________________________________
muppetboy - Brazil has had one of the fastest growing private security service sectors in the World for one, maybe two decades and - despite people's claims here, the cloistering off of the rich from the poor in the US has a LONG way to go.
But the people are friendly, and you can party on the beach.
posted by troutfishing at 4:30 PM on April 12, 2004
Must have gotten that idea from the Zionists in Israel! Sharon probably did consulting work for the govt.
posted by Postroad at 4:32 PM on April 12, 2004
posted by Postroad at 4:32 PM on April 12, 2004
Aye, Postroad. "Too easy to oppose, on too many grounds" ? I thought the US was in the habit of aiding countries with apartheid walls.
posted by scarabic at 4:43 PM on April 12, 2004
posted by scarabic at 4:43 PM on April 12, 2004
St Louis may as well declare downtown the DMZ and build a wall along Olive/Lindell or Delmar
Good thing they have the Mississippi to separate them from East St Louis
posted by WLW at 4:58 PM on April 12, 2004
Good thing they have the Mississippi to separate them from East St Louis
posted by WLW at 4:58 PM on April 12, 2004
"But the people are friendly, and you can party on the beach."
Yup. I'd already be there if there wasn't such horrific problems with poverty and crime.
posted by muppetboy at 6:05 PM on April 12, 2004
Yup. I'd already be there if there wasn't such horrific problems with poverty and crime.
posted by muppetboy at 6:05 PM on April 12, 2004
From what I recall from my time in Brazil, this isn't to make a whole hell of a lot of difference. The rich have been walling themselves in for decades. I'm actually pretty surprised there isn't a non-official wall already in place.
posted by jacquilynne at 6:06 PM on April 12, 2004
posted by jacquilynne at 6:06 PM on April 12, 2004
St Louis may as well declare downtown the DMZ and build a wall along Olive/Lindell or Delmar
Only problem is those streets run east/west, into the heart of downtown, and Saint Louis would be better separated from the county by a north/south street. That being said, the highest crime areas are in pockets to the north and south of downtown, with the downtown area being currently revitalized and relatively safe.
So, you would need to build two walls. One encircling the north ghetto, the other the south ghetto.
As an aside, They have even come out with cross color team apparel. The cardinals color is red, but you can get a blue cardinals hat. The Rams color is blue, but you can get a red Rams hat. Certain groups will only wear one color or the other, if you get my drift.
Just a slice of life here in the Lou. A relatively safe city if you know where not to go.
posted by jester69 at 8:12 PM on April 12, 2004
Only problem is those streets run east/west, into the heart of downtown, and Saint Louis would be better separated from the county by a north/south street. That being said, the highest crime areas are in pockets to the north and south of downtown, with the downtown area being currently revitalized and relatively safe.
So, you would need to build two walls. One encircling the north ghetto, the other the south ghetto.
As an aside, They have even come out with cross color team apparel. The cardinals color is red, but you can get a blue cardinals hat. The Rams color is blue, but you can get a red Rams hat. Certain groups will only wear one color or the other, if you get my drift.
Just a slice of life here in the Lou. A relatively safe city if you know where not to go.
posted by jester69 at 8:12 PM on April 12, 2004
For a great dramatization of life in urban Brazil, see City of God.
This is the future, kids. Anyone in their 20s or 30s in the US is going to live on one side or the other of such a wall within their lifetimes. 95% will likely live on the outside.
For years I labored with the goal of being on the rich side of the wall. Deftly commanding my reinforced vehicle through checkpoints, flashing my insider credentials. That's what we're all supposed to do, right?
Now I realize how small those fortified communities are going to be, and the amount of harm they are going to have to carry out in order to stay in there. I'd rather have a short life with poor people than a long life with ghouls. I'll stick with the people.
posted by squirrel at 8:40 PM on April 12, 2004
This is the future, kids. Anyone in their 20s or 30s in the US is going to live on one side or the other of such a wall within their lifetimes. 95% will likely live on the outside.
For years I labored with the goal of being on the rich side of the wall. Deftly commanding my reinforced vehicle through checkpoints, flashing my insider credentials. That's what we're all supposed to do, right?
Now I realize how small those fortified communities are going to be, and the amount of harm they are going to have to carry out in order to stay in there. I'd rather have a short life with poor people than a long life with ghouls. I'll stick with the people.
posted by squirrel at 8:40 PM on April 12, 2004
Just to clarify jacquilynne and squirrel, they're not proposing to build a wall around a rich part of town, but around a slum.
posted by signal at 7:18 AM on April 13, 2004
posted by signal at 7:18 AM on April 13, 2004
This is the future, kids. Anyone in their 20s or 30s in the US is going to live on one side or the other of such a wall within their lifetimes. 95% will likely live on the outside.
Give me the outside any day. Being inside a gated community makes me think of the phrase "protective custody."
posted by IshmaelGraves at 9:26 AM on April 13, 2004
Give me the outside any day. Being inside a gated community makes me think of the phrase "protective custody."
posted by IshmaelGraves at 9:26 AM on April 13, 2004
Just to clarify jacquilynne and squirrel, they're not proposing to build a wall around a rich part of town, but around a slum.
That was clear. You think there's a difference?
posted by squirrel at 10:16 AM on April 13, 2004
That was clear. You think there's a difference?
posted by squirrel at 10:16 AM on April 13, 2004
Basically ditto what squirrel said, I was fully aware that that's the idea. The rich and the poor are very geographically divided in Brazilian cities and the rich have always built walls around themselves. Building walls around the poor people means very few more walls.
I was being quite flip in my comments of course. And there is difference between building walls to keep people off your property and building them to keep people on theirs. But it's not quite the huge gap you might imagine given the current state of affairs in Brazil.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:46 AM on April 13, 2004
I was being quite flip in my comments of course. And there is difference between building walls to keep people off your property and building them to keep people on theirs. But it's not quite the huge gap you might imagine given the current state of affairs in Brazil.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:46 AM on April 13, 2004
Give me the outside any day. Being inside a gated community makes me think of the phrase "protective custody."
I lived in such a "community" several years ago and had great fun finding ways to sneak in and out. It was sort of a depressing place to live, though, and I won't live in a development like that again if I can help it.
posted by Mars Saxman at 12:21 PM on April 13, 2004
I lived in such a "community" several years ago and had great fun finding ways to sneak in and out. It was sort of a depressing place to live, though, and I won't live in a development like that again if I can help it.
posted by Mars Saxman at 12:21 PM on April 13, 2004
"Hey Judge! Shit on him!" Fucking hell, quoting The Wall? It'll be Python jokes next, mark my words!
posted by inpHilltr8r at 5:17 PM on April 13, 2004
posted by inpHilltr8r at 5:17 PM on April 13, 2004
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posted by muppetboy at 3:28 PM on April 12, 2004