Comments on: Vexillological Vexations

Vexillological Vexations

Vidiot — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:54:57 -0800

The Iraqi Governing Council has unveiled Iraq's new flag design to almost universal disapproval. Not only is the US-appointed Iraqi Governing Council increasingly unpopular, but to some Iraqis the flag looks uncomfortably similar to Israel's. And, as Chris Allbritton points out, "damn, that's an ugly flag."

By: Vidiot

Vidiot — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 21:59:54 -0800

Another interesting graf from Chris Allbritton's post:

But aside from the aesthetic problem, there's that big yellow stripe representing the Kurds. (Is it supposed to mean the Kurds live between the Tigris and Euphrates? I don't know.) The Turcomans and Assyrians, already feeling squeezed by the newfound popularity of the Kurds with the new kids in town, are surely rightly pissed off about being left off the new flag. Where is their heritage celebrated?

By: scarabic

scarabic — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:08:16 -0800

Yeah, you can't get any further from Islamic holy green, and the blood red that typically symbolizes blood shed in defense of the homeland. White, yellow, and turquoise. Mmm. No misdirection going on there.

By: clevershark

clevershark — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:11:30 -0800

The idea of having a national flag which is mostly white strikes me as rather silly. The confederacy experimented with such a design, but quickly stepped away from it when they realized that in the distance it was often mistaken for the white flag of surrender.

By: skallas

skallas — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:21:50 -0800

Call me crazy but what's really wrong with the old flag? Flags are just national symbols, easily co-opted by the next ruling party. This guy in article says it best

"I will be delighted when this council is dissolved and a new government is formed," said Amer Abdulaimy, 38, a day laborer, who said he preferred the old flag and saw no reason to change it. "The council has done nothing for us, and it is the same as the American government. We need free elections."

By: fatbobsmith

fatbobsmith — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:21:52 -0800

Horrible. This doesn't look like any of the flags from our other states.

By: pjdoland

pjdoland — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:24:19 -0800

I think it needs a little U.S. flag in the upper left region. It would be a welcome nod to the practice that was so common under British imperialism.

By: scarabic

scarabic — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:28:06 -0800

I agree, cautiously, skallas. I don't see any reason why we have to throw out the baby (national identity) with the bathwater (saddam). Shit, if we were going to actually redraw borders and such, a new flag would be a grand idea. This just seems like an effort to bury the past instead of attempting to integrate the future with it.

By: Vidiot

Vidiot — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:29:04 -0800

One thing about Iraq's old flag -- the Arabic allahu akbar ("God is great") was added just before the first Gulf War, on 1/13/91. (I've heard rumors that it's in Saddam's handwriting, but am not sure if that's true.) Given that, I figure more Iraqis would want a return to the 1963 flag, but the WaPo article says otherwise.

By: Vidiot

Vidiot — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:29:51 -0800

Historical Flags of Iraq.

By: skallas

skallas — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:33:02 -0800

Three flags, elections, and a military pull-out anyone?

By: mathowie

mathowie — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:48:40 -0800

It looks like half Turkey and half Sweden to me.

By: PrinceValium

PrinceValium — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:51:55 -0800

Grade the flags.

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 22:55:22 -0800

Why don't we just give them a big white flag with a blood-red W in the middle of it and be done with it? Mission Accomplished!

By: malphigian

malphigian — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:23:50 -0800

The site PrinceValium linked to makes the interesting observation that the old iraqi flag is exactly the same as the Syrian flag, with 1 extra star. That's a decent reasion to drop it.

By: Feisty

Feisty — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:53:33 -0800

Yes, but why is it all wrinkly? Somebody just arrive on their Vespa with it clutched in their hands? Cunning indeed.

By: Witty

Witty — Mon, 26 Apr 2004 23:55:19 -0800

Chryst... some of you people are just relentless. Is it AT ALL possible for you to stay focused on the topic at hand without slipping in your constant rhetorical sarcastic political bullshit jabs and quips in every goddamn thread? It's fucking tiresome.

By: skallas

skallas — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:14:04 -0800

Witty: It's fucking tiresome. So is your complaining.

By: fatbobsmith

fatbobsmith — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:50:52 -0800

Metafilter: constant rhetorical sarcastic political bullshit jabs and quips That sums this site up surprisingly well...

By: ed\26h

ed\26h — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:56:18 -0800

Yeah Witty... Since your pointing out of fallacies is just as boring as those fallacies themselves, you shouldn't do it. Apparently.

By: Postroad

Postroad — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:45:02 -0800

If I were Right of Center, I would say: take what we give you...besides, you ought to have some red,white,blue to symbolize our new occupation and bases there. If I were Left of Center: we will have a national rferendum and you can decide for yourself...submit designs for voting. No more than 20 thousand entries will be voted upon.

By: johnnyboy

johnnyboy — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 03:51:07 -0800

A jay-z points out there are ninety nine problems in iraq, but a flag ain't one.

By: GhostintheMachine

GhostintheMachine — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:22:36 -0800

OK, the Tigris/Euphrates thing I can go with, and the crescent in some form is fine. The rest must go. The Kurds? In such a divided nation, is it a good idea to emphasize just one ethnicity? Wasn't that part of the reason they got rid of Saddam? And the colour choice... where's the green or red? Is there a flag from a (basically) Moslem country without green or red? Too busy, too silly, too clipart, too much misdirected meaning.

By: infowar

infowar — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:24:15 -0800

Personally I think they should use the designer of the Hong Kong SAR. Talk about branding.

By: ed\26h

ed\26h — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:44:19 -0800

Postroad: So what you're saying is: People who are right of centre are fascist, while people who are left of centre are democratic.

By: Civil_Disobedient

Civil_Disobedient — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 05:52:40 -0800

Why does the yellow represent the Kurds? And why can't they choose their own flag? "No, I tried it before and it didn't work! I had four guys fighting to be Mr. Black"

By: carter

carter — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 06:13:10 -0800

looks like some guy with a Macintosh spent about 30 minutes working this up tee hee. Thanks for the links, Vidiot; plus I learned a new word today!

By: zsazsa

zsazsa — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 06:34:58 -0800

Skallas: Call me crazy but what's really wrong with the old flag? This page linked to from Back to Iraq explains it well: In 1963 Syria and Iraq switched to 3 stars to represent pan-Arab (Ba'athist) solidarity (and Iraq alone has that flag today). (emphasis mine) I'm guessing they want to purge Iraq of all Ba'athist symbols, and the three stars on the old flag are quite prominent.

By: soyjoy

soyjoy — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:28:37 -0800

Fascinating to learn about Iraq's previous flags, thanks, Vidiot. What's the rationale, other than trying to make it look like Israel's, and/or trying to achieve another massive P.R. debacle, for completely overhauling the colors for the first time?

By: Vidiot

Vidiot — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:39:00 -0800

As some people have surmised, perhaps the reason the ~~CPA~~ IGC made it look completely different is so they can easily identify Iraqis hostile to the occupation. Waving the new flag? You're a "good" Iraqi. Waving the old flag or a variant thereof? You're evidently one of the insurgents.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 07:40:52 -0800

That's a decent reasion to drop it. For the Iraqis to drop it, sure, if they want to. Where do we get off designing their flag for them? We're just giving them another reason to resent us, and it's not like they don't have plenty already. (Hint for the perspective-impaired: imagine a foreign power coming in, taking over Washington, and changing the American flag.) And by "we," I mean "the gang of unelected thugs and criminals currently running the US."

By: GhostintheMachine

GhostintheMachine — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 08:16:02 -0800

imagine a foreign power coming in, taking over Washington, and changing the American flag. Don't tease! Actually, the US flag really could use a good overhaul. I love the comments in PrinceValium's linked page. Hey, if one star is good...

By: scarabic

scarabic — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:31:16 -0800

is it a good idea to emphasize just one ethnicity? Aren't the Kurds in so much danger of being marginalized, numerically, and culturally, that this is hardly a concern?

By: clavdivs

clavdivs — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 09:51:20 -0800

well, it will give the Iraqis something to work on. It is just a flag right? What is important is the meaning behind it. Who designed it? did the U.S. design it? or did the council. and what about the kurds representation? does this say more about our arrogance or the councils stance on the kurds?

By: GhostintheMachine

GhostintheMachine — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:45:08 -0800

I'm not sure what you mean, scarabic. Are you suggesting that since the Kurds will likely have so little say in the future of Iraq that any preferential treatment they receive (like flag acknowledgement) amounts to tokenism only? But if that's the case, why bother at all? I mean, what if they changed the American flag so that one of the stars was red, to represent Rhode Island? Would that still be "hardly a concern"? Or is there some other meaning I'm missing?

By: Down10

Down10 — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 11:32:05 -0800

I love flag design, and I too am disappointed by Iraq's flag design. The best flags our there tend to look symmetrical, balanced by shapes or colors. The Iraq flag is too bottom heavy, and that faint blue cresent looks dreary and desolate. ...That must be what life is like in Iraq. The U.S. flag has gotten pretty ugly, too. A much better version of the U.S. flag is actually the state flag of Texas, of all places. It carries all the symbols and colors of our national flag, but simplifies them enough to make them a bit less tacky. You'll never get Texas to give up their flag, though.

By: dejah420

dejah420 — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:33:22 -0800

This flag design really is gawd-awful. I don't really see a similarity to Israel's flag, outside of the blue...but it's certainly not in the panarabic colors either. The old flag was fine, let the Iraqis choose to change their flag by public referendum if desired.

By: clavdivs

clavdivs — Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:53:37 -0800

opps, kurds represented. still... ah screw it BAD IDEA COUNCIL.

By: moonbiter

moonbiter — Sat, 01 May 2004 21:03:13 -0800