Oh, and don't pack your camera.

May 7, 2004 10:35 AM

You too can apply to become a private interrogater in Baghdad! [Via Randi Rhodes on Air America]

Assists the interrogation support program team lead to increase the effectiveness of dealing with Detainees, Persons of Interest, and Prisoners of War (POWs) that are in the custody of US/Coalition Forces...
posted by moonbird (44 comments total)

Sorry, that's interrogatOR.
posted by moonbird at 10:37 AM on May 7, 2004

Sounds like the hessians. Despicable.

And the reason the Brits lost.
posted by dfowler at 11:07 AM on May 7, 2004

Sally Struthers where are you when we need you.

'Accounting, improvised torture devices, gun repair, maiming without leaving visible scars, TV/VCR repair, psychological effectiveness of 80s hair bands, private investigator, or get your high school diploma...")
posted by m@ at 11:11 AM on May 7, 2004

Wait if your incompetent doing the task at hand, can you successfully hire a replacement?
posted by thomcatspike at 11:13 AM on May 7, 2004

I do hope our friend PeePee applies.

Word is that Likudniks are especially keen on and adept at torture techniques.
posted by nofundy at 11:38 AM on May 7, 2004

What are the hours?
posted by jonmc at 11:50 AM on May 7, 2004

What are the hours?

Lot of sleepless nights, but you do get Ramadan off
posted by ElvisJesus at 12:10 PM on May 7, 2004

How about the Dental Plan?
posted by jonmc at 12:12 PM on May 7, 2004

speaking of Air America:

Air America Radio Chairman Resigns

By SETH SUTEL, AP Business Writer

NEW YORK - The chairman and vice chairman of Air America Radio have resigned, dealing the latest setback to the fledgling liberal radio network headlined by comedian and author Al Franken.

The departures of Evan Cohen and his investment partner Rex Sorensen came just one week after the company said that co-founder Mark Walsh had stepped down as CEO to take a smaller role at the company. Last week the company also said it had forced out David Logan as head of programming.

Cohen declined to discuss the reasons for his departure Friday but confirmed that he was stepping down both as chairman and as a member of the company's board. News of the departures, which occurred Thursday, was first reported in the Chicago Tribune.

Cohen also said Sorensen was leaving the company's board. He declined to say what he and Sorensen planned to do with their stakes in the venture. Jon Sinton, president of the company, did not immediately return calls seeking comment.

The continued management turmoil marked the latest growing pains for Air America Radio, which launched on March 31 with a slate of left-leaning political satire and current affairs commentary.

Just two weeks after the network went on the air, a dispute with a business partner led to the network's signal being pulled from stations in Chicago and Los Angeles. The signal was later restored in Chicago, but the company said it was looking for a new business partner there.

In addition to Franken's show, which is dubbed "The O'Franken Factor" in a jab at Fox News host Bill O'Reilly, the network also carries shows hosted by Janeane Garofalo (news), Florida radio personality Randi Rhodes and Lizz Winstead, a co-creator of "The Daily Show."

posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 12:12 PM on May 7, 2004

Abuse was thought out, experts say

"Graphic images depicting abuse and humiliation of Iraqi captives at the hands of American forces will likely focus attention on the role of psychologists advising the military on interrogation techniques, experts following the controversy said. While aimed at breaking the prisoners, the techniques developed by the psychologists are designed to skirt the Geneva Conventions and U.N. prohibitions of torture, they said."
posted by homunculus at 12:32 PM on May 7, 2004

Nice title, moonbird.
posted by homunculus at 12:33 PM on May 7, 2004

steve ?!, sure hope your comment was placed in the wrong thread.
posted by thomcatspike at 12:36 PM on May 7, 2004

It's kind of interesting and all - but how is this relevant to the link?
posted by rks404 at 12:43 PM on May 7, 2004

How about the Dental Plan?

You get to keep all the teeth you find.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 1:06 PM on May 7, 2004

It's kind of interesting and all - but how is this relevant to the link?

in steve's world, it simply proves beyond a doubt that

a) liberal broadcasting is fiscally unfeasable and not sustainable.

b) that liberal CEO's are dumbasses or something.

c) that Janeane Garofalo is a network-wrecking commie slut.
posted by quonsar at 1:09 PM on May 7, 2004

thomcatspike, no he's just engaged in a friendly little temper tantrum of thread derailing.
posted by substrate at 1:12 PM on May 7, 2004

c) that Janeane Garofalo is a network-wrecking commie slut.

Really? Can I have her number? Commie sluts are the best kind, they share amongst all the workers equally.
posted by jonmc at 1:37 PM on May 7, 2004

Heh, wonder if they will have to change that line "Under minimal supervision".
posted by Manjusri at 2:18 PM on May 7, 2004

So the war-monger's comment on the torture of Iraqis is that a liberal radio network is out of business?

Go the fuck back on hiatus, you asshole.
posted by goethean at 2:34 PM on May 7, 2004

Does it come with on-the-job training? Do I have to provide my own implements of torture? If so, can I claim a tax credit on depreciation on those? What about medical and dental benefits?

So many questions left unanswered.
posted by clevershark at 3:08 PM on May 7, 2004

Go the fuck back on hiatus, you asshole.

Let's hear it for tolerance and open discussion. Way to go, goethean.
posted by jonmc at 3:55 PM on May 7, 2004

Steve @ has officially jumped the shark.
posted by Space Coyote at 4:46 PM on May 7, 2004

It's so confusing these days. With all the yellow ribbons and bumper stickers demanding we "Support the Troops", does that include supporting the Brave Troops torturing Iraqis in our name, or just the Brave Troops occupying the helpless, sovereign country we invaded?

"There are other photos -- many other photos -- that depict incidents of physical violence towards prisoners, acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman," Rumsfeld told the Senate Armed Services Committee. "And I am advised there also are videos of these actions."

You can't tell the "evildoers" without a program, eh Rummy?

It's kind of interesting and all - but how is this relevant to the link?

Steve@Linnwood is contributing to the thread by attacking the source of the news that doesn't fit his worldview, instead of coming up with an argument or comment on the news itself. That's called intellectual honesty. Hadn't you heard of it? You'll see a lot of that kind of open and honest discussion from a certain segment here on MetaFilter....and in America.

Let's hear it for tolerance and open discussion.

Yeah, let's hear it, jonmc. Let's hear how Air America's chairman resigning is pertinent to Our Brave U.S. Army Troops bravely hauling helpless humans around on leashes. Attacking the source of an idea instead of the idea itself is part of every open discussion - hadn't you heard? Surprising and strange you'd condemn goethean for doing the same thing DrudgeReport@Linnwood did.

I think we were discussing intellectual honesty, were we not?

Having said that, goethean, we can do without the name-calling, just as we can do without the stupidity of attacking Air America for the latest disaster from Q-U-A-G-M-I-R-E Central Command.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 4:48 PM on May 7, 2004

Having said that, goethean, we can do without the name-calling, just as we can do without the stupidity of attacking Air America for the latest disaster from Q-U-A-G-M-I-R-E Central Command.

Why don't you read some history books before you start to call this a quagmire. The war is going cosiderably well overall and civilian casualties are quite minimal. We are on our way to achieving the objective. To call this a quagmire is downright stupid.

Also, why do you capitalize brave troops in your posts? Are you being sarcastic? Are you mocking them?
posted by WLW at 5:12 PM on May 7, 2004

Yeah, let's hear it, jonmc.

Well, foldy, it's one thing to attack steve's ideas, another to tell him to leave the conversation entirely, and personally attack him, which is what I was objecting to.
posted by jonmc at 5:25 PM on May 7, 2004

Acheiving the objective? So those WMDs are right around the corner, are they?

Right?
posted by Space Coyote at 5:30 PM on May 7, 2004

Or to put it another way, steve may be full of shit here, but last time I checked he has a right to be.
posted by jonmc at 5:31 PM on May 7, 2004

Acheiving the objective? So those WMDs are right around the corner, are they?

Right?

No, the objective was to neutralize Saddam.

The work in progress is to rebuild Iraq now
posted by WLW at 5:33 PM on May 7, 2004

So those WMDs are right around the corner

Besides Metafilter, name an international intelligence agency that didn't think he had them? Name one?
posted by WLW at 5:37 PM on May 7, 2004

No, the objective was to neutralize Saddam.
The objective was always to neutralize Saddam.

We are on our way to achieving the objective.
War is Peace.

proof that: Ignorance Is Strength.
posted by bashos_frog at 5:40 PM on May 7, 2004

Besides Metafilter, name an international intelligence agency that didn't think he had them? Name one?

Not remotely the point. But thanks for playing. On the other hand, chemical weapons have a very definite shelf life, so once the weapons that Rumsfeld sold to Saddam to use on the Iranians and Kurds wore out, then he would have had to have gotten more. The lame attempts the White House made to show that he was trying to get more, knowingly lying about Niger and 'yellowcake', just prove how disingenuous they were being from the beginning.

But I commend the sheer strength of your convictions, despite overwhelming evidence, WLW.
posted by Space Coyote at 5:51 PM on May 7, 2004

We are on our way to achieving the objective.

I was rereading Michael Herr's Dispatches this morning on the subway. Herr was writing about Vietnam but a lot of the knowledge in that book is still important today.

Two passages seem especially relevant:

Not that you didn't hear some overripe bullshit about it: Hearts & Minds, Peoples Of The Republic, tumbling dominoes, Maintaining the equilibrium of the Dingdong by containing the ever encroaching Doodah; you could also hear the other, some young soldier speaking in all bloody innocence saying "All that's just a load, man. We're here to kill gooks. Period"

and

The Irregulars either got out or became regular in a hurry. By 1967,a ll you saw was the impaired spook reflex, prim adventurers living too long on the bloodless fringes of the action, heartbroken and memory-ruptured, working alone together toward a classified universe. They seemed like the saddest casualties of the sixties, all the promise of good service on the New Frontier either gone or surviving like the vaguest salvages of a dream, still in love with their dead leader, blown away in his prime and theirs.
posted by jonmc at 5:54 PM on May 7, 2004

But I commend the sheer strength of your convictions, despite overwhelming evidence, WLW.


Thank you, your convictions seem equally strong and your argument is strawman at best. Read some history, kid
posted by WLW at 5:58 PM on May 7, 2004

Besides Metafilter, name an international intelligence agency that didn't think he had them? Name one?

I very much suspect that most of those agencies were working largely off of (flawed) shared American data. Most western agencies do quite a bit of intel sharing, and, unlike the US, I doubt countries like Germany or Italy really had a large independent intelligence operation in Iraq. I seem to remember reading an article in Ha'aretz, where even the Mossad was described as devoting significantly less effort to Iraq (apparently relying on American info) than to, say, Syria or Iran.
posted by kickingtheground at 6:14 PM on May 7, 2004

Thank you, your convictions seem equally strong and your argument is strawman at best. Read some history, kid

Losing an argument to someone you believe is a 'kid' ust makes you look dumber.
posted by Space Coyote at 7:53 PM on May 7, 2004

I very much suspect that most of those agencies were working largely off of (flawed) shared American data.

Yes, and ensuring that Ahmed Chalabi continues to be a very rich man, even as he now sneaks off to be bestest friends with the Iranians, who, as everyone knows, actually do have a nuclear programme.

The work in progress is to rebuild Iraq now

Hearts and minds, one torture at a time.
posted by riviera at 9:04 PM on May 7, 2004

Rumsfeld did not describe the photos, but U.S. military officials told NBC News that the unreleased images showed U.S. soldiers severely beating an Iraqi prisoner nearly to death, having sex with a female Iraqi female prisoner and “acting inappropriately with a dead body.” The officials said there was also a videotape, apparently shot by U.S. personnel, showing Iraqi guards raping young boys.
posted by y2karl at 9:33 PM on May 7, 2004

You know, I think the troops that perpetrated these acts should apologise to their fellows over in Iraq. They let those who are trying to do a good job down. Badly. So badly that a number more of them are going to die as a direct result of their stupidity and lack of regard for human decency.

Looking at the add, it's interesting to see the requirements - Top Secret clearance, Bachelors degree etc. It reminds me of the fact that these troops said what they did was to "soften" the prisoners up for the higher level interregators.. Hmm..

I'm giving it a week tops before the rest of the photos come out..
posted by Mossy at 6:17 AM on May 8, 2004

US powerless to halt Iraq net images

In his testimony to congressional committees, Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld indicated that the flood of pictures was now beyond the US authorities' control.

"There are a lot more photographs and videos that exist," he said. "If these are released to the public, obviously it is going to make matters worse... I looked at them last night and they are hard to believe."

Mr Rumsfeld was indignant at the publication of such images: "We're functioning with peacetime constraints, with legal requirements, in a wartime situation in the Information Age, where people are running around with digital cameras and taking these unbelievable photographs and then passing them off, against the law, to the media, to our surprise."

However, he admitted that he had not realised the seriousness of the allegations until the pictures were leaked to the media...

"Certainly one of the issues that might be looked into is the use of digital cameras and whether or not any policy might be desirable," says US Central Command's Lt Cdr Balice.

"But if there's some kind of thought that we might introduce a policy because we fear that wrongdoing might be exposed, then that is incorrect. In any case, the photographing of detainees is prohibited.".

Ultimately, then, the only way that the coalition can prevent the spread of images depicting the abuse of Iraqi prisoners is to prevent the abuse itself.

Have to agree with Kevin Drum here in reference to the discussion of Brooks and Shields on the Newshour with Jim Leher last night:

The most remarkable part of Brooks' performance, though, was his insistence that this was all the work of a few rogue privates and corporals — or maybe just a bit higher. But that's it. Nothing systemic.

Shields swatted this delusion away with the contempt it deserved, noting that the stuff we saw in the pictures was obviously carefully designed to inflict the greatest possible humiliation on the prisoners. It wasn't the kind of thing a bunch of noncoms dreamed up on their own, it was part of a carefully designed effort to soften up the prisoners and get information from them. The plan was put together by Army officers and intelligence officials and was pretty clearly encouraged and condoned by their superiors.

How high does it go? And how explicit was the policy? I don't know, but based on what we've seen so far I'd guess (a) pretty high and (b) pretty explicit. The only question is whether the investigation itself will go that high, or content itself with a few low ranking scapegoats.
posted by y2karl at 6:57 AM on May 8, 2004

Example: Our Brave U.S. Army Troops bravely hauling helpless humans around on leashes.

Reaction: Also, why do you capitalize brave troops in your posts? Are you being sarcastic? Are you mocking them?

One could easily assume, upon reading the whole sentence, that the Brave Troops being mocked were those hauling around humans on leashes and not easily assume all American servicemen were complicit in the former's leading helpless humans around on leashes, even if the former were quite likely following orders and established policy.

Daniel Schorr on Weekend Edition this morning made the observation that in the first Gulf War, the photos were of Iraqi soldiers lining up to surrender to the first Allied troops they met and how unlikely it would be to see any such scenes again after the pictures from Abu Ghraib came out.
posted by y2karl at 7:20 AM on May 8, 2004

One would have thought the concept of irony was still being taught in school. No accounting for such vagaries....

~chuckle~
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 10:38 AM on May 8, 2004

~chuckle~

You amuse yourself quit a bit, dont you?
posted by WLW at 5:22 PM on May 8, 2004

Abu Ghraib: Bigger than a Mere Scandal

None of this happened in a vacuum. Secretary of Defense Donald H. Rumsfeld visited Abu Ghraib and met Karpinski in a highly-publicized event. There is a clear chain of command linking the lowest-ranking MPs to Lt. Gen. Sanchez and his subordinate generals. CENTCOM commanders in the fall of 2003 were anxious to roll up the former regime leaders still on the lam, including Saddam Hussein, and clearly pressed interrogation experts such as Maj. Gen. Geoffrey D. Miller to incorporate stronger techniques to get Iraqi detainees to talk.

A number of officers and senior enlisted men from the 800th MP Brigade have already been relieved of command and received letters of reprimand. Investigators are still looking into the activities of the 205th MI Brigade. Accountability will not stop there, nor should it. There should be courts-martial.

This appalling incident does more than undercut the progress of our mission in Iraq. For years, people familiar with the U.S. military have decried the gap between actual capabilities and the unceasing mission overstretch battering a force slashed by 40 percent after the end of the Cold War. For years, compliant military commanders have covered up the worsening situation with adjectives and adverbs.

What Tagabu’s report shows us in unrelenting candor is that the critics were right: the U.S. military is in danger of coming apart at the seams. A scandal such as Abu Ghraib is merely how it plays out.

Iraq’s Nightmare Scenario

A careful reader of the limited news coming out of Iraq will discover the U.S. military situation is perilous and a few more bad moves could send the U.S. Army and Marines retreating back to Kuwait in the same manner they fled southward 54 years ago in Korea. That was when a million Chinese foot soldiers suddenly appeared and attacked as overextended U.S. forces approached the Chinese border. American firepower, airpower, and technology was unable to compensate for the confusion and lack of supplies for American ground troops.

The main problem in Iraq today is the massive logistics effort required to sustain U.S. forces at over a hundred dispersed camps. Over 95 percent of supplies arrive by ship, and the closest major seaport is in Kuwait. This means everything must be hauled hundreds of miles over war torn roads among hostile natives. This is far more difficult than Vietnam, which had a long coastline where supplies could be dropped off.

American forces in Iraq cannot be defeated in standard military engagements. However, insurgents know the weak spot: the long main supply routes. If camps run short of ammo and spare parts, they must retreat toward Kuwait and hope that the Army’s cash-strapped logistics bureaucracy can meet the surging demand to save them from catastrophe.

The Army must take five steps to prevent an embarrassing retreat:

* Secure the main supply routes and establish emergency supply caches inside Iraq;

* Develop plans to quickly abandon vulnerable camps in a crisis;

* Avoid alienating the Arab world with offensive operations until the first two steps are accomplished;

* Stop calling Iraqi insurgents thugs, terrorists, and criminals. That encourages poor treatment of all Iraqis by American soldiers and makes negotiations to end violence impossible;

* Americans must not destroy Iraqi cities in order to save them, lest they find themselves overrun by irate Muslim [insurgents].
posted by y2karl at 5:38 PM on May 8, 2004

Md. reservist alerted officers to alleged abuses by his unit

Taguba's report mentions Darby twice - once in a list of witnesses and again with two other soldiers "we observed and believe should be favorably noted."

Darby, the report states, "discovered evidence of abuse and turned it over to military law enforcement." The other soldiers mentioned are a dog handler who refused to participate in improper interrogations and a military policeman who stopped an instance of abuse and reported it up the chain of command.

A few good men.
posted by y2karl at 6:03 PM on May 8, 2004