The Jesus Landing Pad

May 18, 2004 2:18 PM

The Jesus Landing Pad "It was an e-mail we weren't meant to see. Not for our eyes were the notes that showed White House staffers taking two-hour meetings with Christian fundamentalists..."
posted by Postroad (69 comments total)

The e-mailed meeting summary reveals NSC Near East and North African Affairs director Elliott Abrams sitting down with the Apostolic Congress and massaging their theological concerns. Claiming to be "the Christian Voice in the Nation's Capital," the members vociferously oppose the idea of a Palestinian state. They fear an Israeli withdrawal from Gaza might enable just that, and they object on the grounds that all of Old Testament Israel belongs to the Jews. Until Israel is intact and David's temple rebuilt, they believe, Christ won't come back to earth.

I'd mutter, "oh, sweet Jesus" while rolling my eyes heavenward, but I guess that's exactly their point.
posted by scody at 2:24 PM on May 18, 2004

In an interview with the Voice, Upton denied having written the document, though it was sent out from an e-mail account of one of his staffers and bears the organization's seal, which is nearly identical to the Great Seal of the United States. So has an e-mail been identified as fact?
posted by thomcatspike at 2:24 PM on May 18, 2004

The amount of mysticism in the administration goes a long way towards explaining their many failures when dealing with real-world issues.
posted by clevershark at 2:30 PM on May 18, 2004

David's temple rebuilt, they believe, Christ won't come back to earth.
This wording made me laugh as a Christian. Awww...the story lines you could generate from this alone, No God you're not welcome, no one rebuilt David's temple; tomorrow you say, naw, we're too busy.
posted by thomcatspike at 2:30 PM on May 18, 2004

DeLay Links U.S. War, Mideast Conflict
posted by homunculus at 2:33 PM on May 18, 2004

Until Israel is intact and David's temple rebuilt, they believe, Christ won't come back to earth..

That seems to me an easy way to avert Armageddon. Why are these people so keen to see Jesus come back?
posted by kindall at 2:40 PM on May 18, 2004

Why are these people so keen to see Jesus come back?

Because they will go to heaven/return with Jesus, and all the nasty sinners/homos/nasty-people-du-jour will go to the fiery depths of hell. All in one fell swope too - kind of like a bonus; all of your enimies are dead and you get to party.

I just don't get it. It is one end of Christianity that I just cannot comprehend.
posted by plemeljr at 2:43 PM on May 18, 2004

this is awesome.
posted by Peter H at 2:44 PM on May 18, 2004

Why are these people so keen to see Jesus come back?
1) It validates their beliefs.
2) They finally win.
3) It's a pretty heady feeling to walk around knowing what's going to happen.
4) Jesus will love only them and not anyone else when He Returns.
posted by stevis at 2:48 PM on May 18, 2004

This is terrifying, utterly terrifying. The US is ruled by a leader who apparently believes God has chosen him to lead the world into the Apocalypse. See also this.
posted by lupus_yonderboy at 2:56 PM on May 18, 2004

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee-ikes.

But I'm not surprised. Crazy people is crazy people, we just have to stop giving them the keys. And the guns. Kind of a no-brainer, that...
posted by zoogleplex at 2:58 PM on May 18, 2004

I call rights to use "The Jesus Landing Pad" as my new band name!

Anyhow, I wonder if relationships like this are more cynical than they appear. Bush, for all his talking about Jesus, may just be using Christianity to create a power base that is large enough to deliver votes, but delusional enough to be manipulated to his own ends. He throws bones their way to keep them on board, but it's harder to believe that Bush is thinking about The Rapture®™ when he grafts his Mideast policies. Bush isn't thinking about the bible, he's thinking about money/power and how he can use the bible and its followers to achieve his ends.
posted by elwoodwiles at 3:02 PM on May 18, 2004

This is insane and - what's more :

The Divine Progillary of Floobles has expressed his will to me, and also through his holy scripture which I alone possess, that the Earth will soon be destroyed by fire, flood, and hailstones the size of tapirs unless the US invades Paraguay NOW and builds there a sacred temple made from platinum, horsehair, and compressed Tofu.

Get the White House on the line, quick!
posted by troutfishing at 3:02 PM on May 18, 2004

Why are these people so keen to see Jesus come back?

Hey, if you were driving around with one of these bumper stickers, you'd feel pretty silly if he didn't come back.

posted by adamrice at 3:07 PM on May 18, 2004

Oh, and their logo is way too similar to the Great Seal of the USA.
posted by adamrice at 3:12 PM on May 18, 2004

Here's someone else who boasts about briefing State Department officials, and says he's the Messiah.
posted by inksyndicate at 3:14 PM on May 18, 2004

Time to reread a classic.
posted by alms at 3:17 PM on May 18, 2004

Did anyone else notice their web poll:

What do you think of our new Web site?
• I love it
• Nice change
• It's ok
• I need to get used to it

There is no option not to like it, only various forms of appreciation, or the option for you to change your opinion. Actually, a lot like the current administration.
posted by milovoo at 3:22 PM on May 18, 2004

You just need to used to it, milovoo. Heh.

(I was just going to mention the poll, but you beat me to it.)
posted by emelenjr at 3:28 PM on May 18, 2004

The Divine Progillary of Floobles has expressed his will to me, and also through his holy scripture which I alone possess, that the Earth will soon be destroyed by fire, flood, and hailstones the size of tapirs unless the US invades Paraguay NOW and builds there a sacred temple made from platinum, horsehair, and compressed Tofu.

so, you are one of those Compressionist heretics, eh? it's enough to make the Baby Flooble cry.
posted by quonsar at 3:37 PM on May 18, 2004

"Jesus will love only them and not anyone else when He Returns."

yes. and of course, it was recently in the news that certain Jewish groups are beginning to feel uncomfy because of the fundy Christians' embrace of all things Israel -- they must have figured out that fundamentalist Chrstians simply think that Jews won't be saved. hence they're -- ahem -- fundamentally expendible, in the long run. for fundys, the Jews are nothing more than temporary guardians of the Holy Land. after all, they didn't recognize George W Bush's favorite philosopher as their personal savior. and didn't they keep screaming "stauroson, stauroson"?
just ask Mel Gibson.

but the scariest thought is this: I also humbly remind you that the biblical Babylon (where the AntiChrist troops will regroup for the final assauilt) is in...

...Iraq.

scary huh?

______

"the story lines you could generate from this alone, No God you're not welcome, no one rebuilt David's temple"

that made me laugh out loud, too, thomcatspike, even as a non-practising, lapsed Catholic -- I think that, simply, for nonfundy Christians the "Armageddon" narrative fundys are so in love with, is simply too... zany.
posted by matteo at 3:40 PM on May 18, 2004

Hey, if you were driving around with one of these bumper stickers, you'd feel pretty silly if he didn't come back.

I know it's supposed to be whimsical, but that bumper sticker pisses me off whenever I see it. It's just great that these assholes are willing to advertise the fact that they believe (it's a heartfelt belief, right?) that their vehicles could be transformed into uncontrolled murderous juggernauts at any arbitrary moment, and they just don't give a fuck. In fact, they think it's kind of funny. That says a lot about what kind of people they really are, I think.

I sometimes feel like Max von Sydow's character in Hannah and Her Sisters. "If Jesus came back and saw what's going on in His name, He'd never stop throwing up."
posted by mr_roboto at 3:50 PM on May 18, 2004

Okay so now we know that the seperation of Church and state is utter bunkum. Is the war in Iraq going to be declared a holy war? Again? (warning Ann Coulter alert, keep your puke bucket handy).

The sad thing is that they seem more pissed that the email was leaked, not that they were caught with their robes pulled up in flagrante, as it were.
posted by fenriq at 4:10 PM on May 18, 2004

Hey poor, you don't have to be poor any more! Jesus is here!
posted by xmutex at 4:13 PM on May 18, 2004

Bumper stickers are, apparently, for pussies...

posted by i_cola at 4:15 PM on May 18, 2004

i-cola's picture; no "self" and worse, "country", never read "USA" in the Bible. Hope this truck never goes to Rome.
posted by thomcatspike at 4:22 PM on May 18, 2004

Mr Roboto--

In that case, perhaps you'd prefer this image:



(and may I parenthetically point out that Cafe Press goes to extraordinary lengths to discourage you from directly linking to their images)
posted by adamrice at 4:23 PM on May 18, 2004

When you're wondering how much all of this affects Bush's policies, keep in mind that he talks the talk but he doesn't walk the walk. He doesn't go to church and he couldn't discuss Bible passages to save his life. Magic 8 Ball says: it's all a show.
posted by TungstenChef at 4:24 PM on May 18, 2004

In fact, they think it's kind of funny.

I was going to get one for irony (not being religious and all), but then I realized I would just end up pissing off people like myself.
posted by drezdn at 4:26 PM on May 18, 2004

Adamrice: Oh, and their logo is way too similar to the Great Seal of the USA.

Actually, it does not resemble the Great Seal as much as it resembles the Presidential Seal. Please note the difference in the constellation above the head of the eagle (present on the Great Seal, not so on the Presidential Seal or the seal of this organization), the position of "E Pluribus Unum," and the "peacock effect" and ring of stars, again only on the Presidential seal and the seal of the organization. Which may not be a big deal on the surface, except for the fact that it is quite illegal.

The Presidential Seal is owned by the White House, while the Great Seal is "owned" by the people. This is why in political memorabilia stores (a business I used to work in), most of the t-shirts, mugs, buttons, whatever have the Great Seal on them, even if they say something like "White House Golf Team" or something like that. The Presidential Seal can ONLY be used by the White House, with items affixed the Seal appearing on it going for a lot more money in the memorabila game. These items are almost always Presidential gifts (cufflinks, polo shirts, boxes of M&Ms), unless they were bought in the White House or something. Either way, this organization cannot use this logo. I don't believe they could even be given permission to use it, and obviously, there's no satire going on.

I know we could have gotten into deep, deep shit for using images that could be misconstrued as the POTUS seal, so I am 99 percent sure they are breaking the law on this one (not sure if their little Name ring protects them or not). I will be probably calling the Treasury department on it.

Using the Great Seal on a logo is one thing, using the Presidential Seal is something completely different.
posted by tittergrrl at 4:40 PM on May 18, 2004

I wonder if "In case of ragnarok ..." might be a good alternative.
posted by milovoo at 4:41 PM on May 18, 2004

anyway, re Christians and Armageddon, there's one good thing to be said in favor of the "Waiting For Armageddon" crowd: at least they're hardly alone in their apocalyptic sentiments. many New Testament scholars (especially those interested in researching the historical Jesus) think that Jesus himself was an apocalyptic prophet (see for example the marked differences in apocalyptic content between older source material -- for example Mark -- and later material -- John).
it may very well be said that if the historical Jesus came back today I don't know about the vomiting (sorry mr Von Sydow) but He certainly would be really surprised by things hunderds of millions of Christians consider dogma -- for example the Nicene Creed.
on the other hand, since He was talking all the time about the Son Of Man coming on a cloud to judge the world, He probably would appreciate the fundy emphasis on the Apocalypse (whether or not He'd appreciate their social policies, I'd leave to the reader's imagination. but that's entirely another topic)

anyway Christian theology is indeed all about eschatology, ie "the last things". it depends on what kind of Christian are you whether your emphasis on that issue is ethical or apocalyptical, so to speak

I_cola,
unsurprisingly NewsWatch Magazine is an evangelical publication

tittergrrl,
I totally agree. lawyer types here on MeFi: is it legal to steal the Seal of the Presidency for a private association's logo? or could a, say, secular association, sue them and ask them to change their logo and leave the Presidency alone?
posted by matteo at 4:42 PM on May 18, 2004

FYI, I just called the Secret Service about it, but the people responsible for that division weren't in. Gonna try to remember to call tomorrow during business hours.
posted by tittergrrl at 4:48 PM on May 18, 2004

anyway Christian theology is indeed all about eschatology, ie "the last things". it depends on what kind of Christian are you whether your emphasis on that issue is ethical or apocalyptical, so to speak

It should be noted, however, that the vast majority of thinking in the history of Christian theology (i.e. Catholic theological thinking) has focused on "ethical" eschatology: the fate of the individual soul. Though there is certainly a tradition of Catholic apocalyptical theology, it's not anywhere near as prominent for Catholic thinkers as it is for those from modern American evangelical sects.
posted by mr_roboto at 4:53 PM on May 18, 2004

he's just following in the footsteps of the great Republican hero Ronald Reagan, nothing new...
posted by badstone at 5:04 PM on May 18, 2004

Israel's Gaza mission kills 20
posted by homunculus at 5:05 PM on May 18, 2004

PS - just to throw another log on the fire. According to Dubya, everyone in the US is white:

There's a lot of people in the world who don't believe that people whose skin color may not be the same as ours can be free and self-govern. I reject that. I reject that strongly. I believe that people who practice the Muslim faith can self-govern. I believe that people whose skins aren't necessarily -- are a different color than white can self-govern.
posted by badstone at 5:07 PM on May 18, 2004

Thing is, Jesus apparently had long hair, a beard, wore a robe, owned little or nothing and talked mainly about caring for the poor and giving away all you have.

If Jesus were to return looking and acting as he did and preaching the message that he did, not only would most of the soi-disant Christians I've met in my life fail entirely to recognize him, they'd probably loathe him with every fibre of their being.
posted by George_Spiggott at 5:09 PM on May 18, 2004

Those "racism" jabs that Bush has been using to impugn opponents of the Iraq adventure are particularly ham-fisted and transparent. Cheney should really fire the responsible speech writer.
posted by mr_roboto at 5:11 PM on May 18, 2004

*makes mental note not to displease tittrgrrl, if at all possible*

mr_roboto, agreed: but you can't ignore that as soon as Jesus appears in the oldest gospel, it takes less than 15t verses and He's already "saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent, and believe the good news".
you don't need to be a Savonarola fan to see that, even if Catholic thinking has a glorious and varied intellectual history these last two millenia (after all it took more than 300 years after Jesus death to figure out what Christianity actually was, no small feat), you can't deny that the fate of the individual soul is all about Salvation -- a Salvation to achieve waiting for the moment when o huiòs tou anthropou finally arrives, after all.
but yes, one does not want to get too Pelagian, really
;)
posted by matteo at 5:15 PM on May 18, 2004

I hate to echo what's been said a billion times already, but this is yet another thing from this administration that scares the living crap out of me.
posted by teferi at 5:28 PM on May 18, 2004

Jesus apparently had long hair

maybe, but it's more likely He didn't.
a Jewish "tekton" in Palestine would have probably worn not very long hair

and you know what, he probably wasn't even a carpenter in the traditional sense (like, He probably didn't build any tables or chairs, sorry mr Gibson). as a "tekton" He could have been a stonecutter, a mason, even a lower-level laborer. maybe he simply built fences.

but nonetheless He certainly cast fire upon the world, didn't He

_________________

Those "racism" jabs that Bush has been using to impugn opponents of the Iraq adventure are particularly ham-fisted and transparent.

ah, back to Earth.
racism is nothing, Karen Hughes said that if you're pro-choice you're a terrorist.
that's how badass these people are.


BLITZER: There is a clear difference when it comes to abortion rights between the president and his Democratic challenger, John Kerry. In your opinion, Karen, how big of an issue will this abortion rights issue be in this campaign?
HUGHES: Well, Wolf, it's always an issue. And I frankly think it's changing somewhat. I think after September 11th the American people are valuing life more and realizing that we need policies to value the dignity and worth of every life. . . And I think those are the kind of policies that the American people can support, particularly at a time when we're facing an enemy, and really the fundamental difference between us and the terror network we fight is that we value every life.



posted by matteo at 5:29 PM on May 18, 2004

tomcatspike: IIRC it was heading east along I-40 ;-)

tittergrrl: I had a feeling it might be...
posted by i_cola at 5:31 PM on May 18, 2004

Section 713. Use of likenesses of the great seal of the United States, the seals of the President and Vice President, the seal of the United States Senate, the seal of the United States House of Representatives, and the seal of the United States Congress

(a) Whoever knowingly displays any printed or other likeness of the great seal of the United States, or of the seals of the President or the Vice President of the United States, or the seal of the United States Senate, or the seal of the United States House of Representatives, or the seal of the United States Congress, or any facsimile thereof, in, or in connection with, any advertisement, poster, circular, book, pamphlet, or other publication, public meeting, play, motion picture, telecast, or other production, or on any building, monument, or stationery, for the purpose of conveying, or in a manner reasonably calculated to convey, a false impression of sponsorship or approval by the Government of the United States or by any department, agency, or instrumentality thereof, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both.

from a nasty whitehouse.org letter.
posted by milovoo at 5:37 PM on May 18, 2004

If that's Jesus, matteo, then Jesus sold me a souvlaki this afternoon in Astoria Park.
posted by jonmc at 5:41 PM on May 18, 2004

jon:

"No Coke, Pepsi!"
posted by matteo at 5:47 PM on May 18, 2004

Jesus apparently had long hair, a beard, wore a robe, owned little or nothing and talked mainly about caring for the poor and giving away all you have.

That's why more people follow Supply Side Jesus.
posted by homunculus at 5:49 PM on May 18, 2004

"No fries, chips."

I don't remember who it was, but somebody once said that nothing in politics happens by accident. Somebody, somewhere, means it to happen. Either somebody in the White House is finally embarrassed by Bush, or some very resourceful mole found that e-mail and leaked it.

However it happened, I'm glad it did. People have their limits. (or at least I have the somewhat naive faith that they do) Bush's approval rating is sinking by the day and this'll make it sink even further. The wacky-ward Christians are a loud but relatively small group. As a t-shirt I once saw said, the Moral Majority is neither. The worm be turnin'.
posted by jonmc at 5:56 PM on May 18, 2004

Jon: That's interesting. We always went by the rule that the Great Seal was ok.

Either way, maybe I'm being a busybody, but it kind of pissed me off. I mean, besides, we want to protect copyrights, right?
posted by tittergrrl at 6:00 PM on May 18, 2004

a funny thing in badstone's link: as soon as Bush makes that clumsy remark about non-whites being able to govern themselves, the Canadian Prime Minister responds:

I've got to say, though, I really do like sharing a press conference with you. You answer those questions perfectly.

WTF?
posted by mrgrimm at 6:20 PM on May 18, 2004

...This is why in political memorabilia stores (a business I used to work in)...

posted by tittergrrl at 4:40 PM PST on May 18

political memorablilia stores? What the heck are political memorablia stores? do tell...
posted by Miles Long at 6:56 PM on May 18, 2004

Miles: We sold campaign buttons (both current and historical, going back to the 1800s), bumper stickers (not so far back ;) ), t-shirts, books, presidential items (cuff links and the sort), videos, etc. Lots of really cool historical items like signed documents, autographed pictures, lots of original Kennedy PT-109 items, signs, etc. If it had to do with politics, chances are we had it.

We also manufactured materials for current campaigns, and we were one of the official dealers for Clinton's second inaugural, so we sold weird stuff like humidors. Or at least, we tried. I don't think a single humidor sold, for good reason.

This is the company. They used to have a lot of stores in the area but now I believe they are just down to one, and their online prescence.
posted by tittergrrl at 7:56 PM on May 18, 2004

Damn you Apostolic Congress for not revealing yourselves before I signed up! Jesuslandingpad--that would be a truly rapturous mefi-moniker.

Nice hiding your light under a bushel. What next, are you going to rebuild the temple of David and cheap out on the neon so God doesn't notice?
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 8:01 PM on May 18, 2004

Jebuz. Freaking. Christ. Onna. Stick. This is just the spooky icing on the WTF cake that is this administration.
posted by dejah420 at 8:04 PM on May 18, 2004

Somebody once said that nothing in politics happens by accident.

It was Franklin Delano Roosevelt. Who was in a position to know.
posted by SPrintF at 8:17 PM on May 18, 2004

I'm cracking up over here, on two levels - fear and laughter.
posted by fillsthepews at 8:58 PM on May 18, 2004

I wish I could get on the "make fun of fundies" train, but I can't. How come it's always some other religion that's totally nutty? The world I live in is a world in which the vast majority of people believe things that the vast majority thinks is irrational. It's like 20% of Americans thinking they're in the top 1% earners. The numbers don't add up.

From my point of view, if one accepts that supernatural stuff happens according to some arbitrary metaphysical schema, then one thing is about as believable as another, roughly speaking. What's so crazy about taking "Revelations" literally?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:09 PM on May 18, 2004

Ethereal Bligh - nothing at all, although I kinda like science. Thus:

The Divine Progillary of Floobles has expressed his will to me, and also through his Holy Scripture which I alone possess, that in order for the prophecies to be realized, Americans must mix their race with that of the noble Tapir - both in the manner decribed by the Maya to the Catholic priests hundreds of years ago and also in the new fashion - through the intermixing of genetic material so as to produce that new race which will inherit the Earth after the coming cataclysms.

I have written to the White House requesting an audience, so that I may instruct the President in what will be necessary.
posted by troutfishing at 9:48 PM on May 18, 2004

Actually, EB, the do-it-yourself Deity shows that some metaphysical beliefs are more irrational, less coherent, than others. I'd roughly index that to believability--eg, if you believe that God is all-merciful and that God will smite all disbelievers, your faith is less rational and (to my mind) less believable than one that holds one of those two positions but not both.
posted by adamrice at 10:01 PM on May 18, 2004

Good point.

My belief system, for one, is utterly consistent. To save themselves from impending doom, humans must mate with Tapirs.
posted by troutfishing at 10:11 PM on May 18, 2004

humans must mate with Tapirs.

then your presence is urgently requested here
posted by matteo at 10:20 PM on May 18, 2004

I like this description of the ideology:

Their [the Apostolic Congress'] reasoning is not so much theological as magical. By bringing about these things [i.e. creating a Greater Israel], they hope to make Jesus come back. This is sorcery, not eschatology.

I've mentioned this before, but this so-called-theology precisely parallels the plot of many an episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Zealous fanatics loyal to some secretive prophecy try to bring about the signs that will summon their master and bring about the apocalypse and the death of nearly everyone on earth. (Buffy and the gang, contra the Apostolic Congress, regard this as a Bad Thing that should be stopped.)

posted by moonbiter at 10:50 PM on May 18, 2004

Ethereal Bligh - have you read Revelations? It's a rather mystifying and impossible book to "take literally" - yes, it's plainly said that jesus is coming back and that's just about all that's said plainly.

I think the real reason people believe in the end times is that it absolves them of responsibility for trying to fix the world they're living in.
posted by pyramid termite at 10:58 PM on May 18, 2004

Favorite bumper sticker: "In case of Rapture...can I have your car?"
posted by kayjay at 8:16 AM on May 19, 2004

Jesus built my hotrod.
posted by bargle at 9:01 AM on May 19, 2004

Man, this doctrine is so, so, SO far out of whack...
posted by oissubke at 9:09 AM on May 19, 2004

pyramid termite, you've nailed the psychological phenomenon precisely. And it's bad enough that this can result in a passive, fatalistic approach to life...

... but when people get proactive about making the End of the World happen, it's time to put them in the nice comfy padded room with that nice coat that keeps them from using their arms.
posted by zoogleplex at 9:56 AM on May 19, 2004

if one accepts that supernatural stuff happens according to some arbitrary metaphysical schema, then one thing is about as believable as another, roughly speaking

In such a case, it would be preposterous to believe in anything, because one would have acknowledged one's belief to be randomly chosen and "random belief" is an oxymoron.
posted by rushmc at 11:41 AM on May 19, 2004

So tittergrrl, did you call?
posted by milovoo at 5:03 PM on May 19, 2004