Creed has died, Creed is risen

June 6, 2004 10:51 AM

Let's have a moment of silence to remember Creed, the widely reviled band whose attorney once offered this inspired defense to a fan lawsuit: "You can't bring a lawsuit against a band for sucking."
posted by rcade (142 comments total)

I actually enjoyed a few Creed songs.

Oh, wait this is MeFi, where dumping on something is bad except when the majority of MeFites have decided it's not cool enough for them.
posted by jonmc at 10:58 AM on June 6, 2004

Of all the people in the world to make that statement about any band, Jon, you're the blackest pot of all ;)
posted by The God Complex at 11:05 AM on June 6, 2004

Yeah! that metafilter sucks! let's go kick their asses!
posted by rks404 at 11:06 AM on June 6, 2004

Exactly my point, TGC, I've said "Techno/Morrissey/The Cure sucks" and I've gotten reamed for it. But I predict a "Creed sucks" pile-on here in a matter of minutes.

Different how, except for the fact that it's a majority opinion around here?
posted by jonmc at 11:08 AM on June 6, 2004

your favorite band sucks too.

Here's a question: which would be worse, the success of bands like Creed, or more pitchforkmedia?
posted by namespan at 11:09 AM on June 6, 2004

I would say a). Pitchfork isn't that bad (is it?)
posted by Quartermass at 11:11 AM on June 6, 2004

speaking as someone who was totally insulated from hype, opinion, industry flak, teenaged derision and indie smug superiority, someone who regularly cringed in pain whenever his born-again brother fawningly recommended them, someone who was given an unlabelled CD in a stack of unlabelled CD's and who grew to greatly LIKE the music on it MONTHS before finding out who had created it, you are all full of shit. it's only rock and roll, and i like it.

[sticks out tongue]
posted by quonsar at 11:12 AM on June 6, 2004

Well, for me it's different in the sense that I draw a distinct line between bands that I dislike and bands that I dislike that are souless corporate creations that exist simply because a certain vocal style became the sound-du-jour for a period of time. Creed was a Pearl Jam cover band who made it big on "the new sound" and made some truly awful music. This enough may not be enough for me to slam them, but if you ever listen to the arrogant tripe that came out of that band it's hard to have any sympathy for them.

It's the same feelings I have towards Nickelback. As a Canadian, I heard a lot of their early stuff. While I didn't like it very much, and it had many of the same boring qualities that the new stuff does, it at least wasn't dumbed down to the same effect. He said as much in interiews (that "Silver Side Up," their breakout album in the states, was simpler so that more people could "understand" it, as if the early stuff was a model of intellectual intrigue).

I do understand where you're coming from, however, as in most cases I tend to lean towards "not my style" and leave it at that, perhaps debating my points if I feel the need but never just saying something sucks out of hand. However, when a band is little more than a corporate money-making tool (and a boring one at that), I don't have nearly the trouble dismissing it (see: boy bands).
posted by The God Complex at 11:13 AM on June 6, 2004

I'd say more pitchfork media is worse. The bad indie bands actually suffer from the delusion that they're somehow iconoclastic while shamelessly aping "indie" fads.

Creed were mediocre at best, but they managed to write a couple good songs and Stapp could actually carry a tune. If you want a nu-metal whipping boy, Limp Bizkit fits the bill better. At least Creed didn't try to rap. But Creed were a)Christian-associated and b) metal, two things that are unpopular here.
posted by jonmc at 11:16 AM on June 6, 2004

speaking as someone who was totally insulated from hype, opinion, industry flak, teenaged derision and indie smug superiority, someone who regularly cringed in pain whenever his born-again brother fawningly recommended them, someone who was given an unlabelled CD in a stack of unlabelled CD's and who grew to greatly LIKE the music on it MONTHS before finding out who had created it, you are all full of shit. it's only rock and roll, and i like it.

Or maybe you have no taste in music ;) There were literally at least a dozen bands that all sounded the same, to the point where I genuinely couldn't recognize which band was which when they came on the radio. Originality has a role to play in music, especially when it comes to "cashing in" on a sound.
posted by The God Complex at 11:16 AM on June 6, 2004

Nowhere, except maybe on an order form from Columbia House where you pick your favorite "style" of music, is Creed considered "Metal".
posted by stifford at 11:19 AM on June 6, 2004

Creed weren't metal. They were soft rock that you'd hear on your mother's radio station, especially if you look at the last two cds. He carried a tune because his band was produced like every other pop act on the radio.

Your blatant disregard for indie music while you rail against people who don't like "Creed" is interesting. At least a lot of indie music has some feeling behind, isn't simply about money, and consists of people who have something to say (you know, something other than boring drivel about standing six feet form the edge of a cliff or how their life is about to change).
posted by The God Complex at 11:19 AM on June 6, 2004

It didn't take metafilter for me to notice creed sounds much like any other radio band. Oh boy do I hate emo music too. Straight punk for me, please. (Boy I hope nobody sees my music collection then ill be fucked. Depeche mode? Check. A single blues traveller song? Check. Ever Led Zeppelin album? fucking check.)
posted by Keyser Soze at 11:21 AM on June 6, 2004

as if the early stuff was a model of intellectual intrigue

It's a riff-rock band. If you want "intellectual intrigue" look elsewhere. The only thing I as a fan am concerned with is what's in the grooves.

Another reason that most so-called "music geeks" (and I'm a card carrying one) feel the need to loudly proclaim their hatred for Creed is that generally they don't like admitting to liking uncool (read "critic/hipster disapproved") groups.
posted by jonmc at 11:23 AM on June 6, 2004

If I wanted something with metal sensibilities, I'd listen to The Deftones (which I do). They're a 1000 times cooler than Creed, especially for reasonably mainstream band. "White Pony" is a wicked album.

As for Pitchfork Media, I agree to an extent. They review a lot of cool music, and sometimes they're on the mark, but as a culture I don't really like the indie music scene (just a lot of the music). I do, however, stand by their review of Modest Mouse's The Moon and Antarctica as one of the greatest cd's of the late 90's and early 00's.
posted by The God Complex at 11:23 AM on June 6, 2004

I don't know what you're all so excited about… CREED's parasitic roots run so deeply in the Clear Channel-esq mega-radio conglomerates that they're going to be on the air for years to come...

The only way for CREED to have a happy ending is for Scott Stapp to be brought up on child molestation charges. That'll get’em off the air...
posted by wfrgms at 11:23 AM on June 6, 2004

see? this week hasn't been a total loss.
posted by mcsweetie at 11:25 AM on June 6, 2004

I wonder what would happen if Stapp and Nickleback ever collaborated? Creed Kruger anyone?
posted by phyrewerx at 11:26 AM on June 6, 2004

If I wanted something with metal sensibilities, I'd listen to The Deftones (which I do).

The Deftones? If I had to pick the best group out of that pack, I'd probably say it was Godsmack. Like I said, I'm not president of the Creed fan club or anything, but you could do a lot worse.
posted by jonmc at 11:28 AM on June 6, 2004

Deftones isn't in that pack. That was my whole point. Deftones are actually metal in that they don't sound like something my mother would listen to on the radio.
posted by The God Complex at 11:30 AM on June 6, 2004

Creed Fragrances is also liquidating! Oh yeah and Nashville Pussy rules.
posted by oh posey at 11:31 AM on June 6, 2004

creed was a bunch of boners for a bunch of boners. nuff said.
posted by Hackworth at 11:32 AM on June 6, 2004

I cannot wait for the day Modest Mouse breaks up. I'll post a thread like this and see what the reaction is.
posted by jonmc at 11:33 AM on June 6, 2004

Another reason that most so-called "music geeks" (and I'm a card carrying one) feel the need to loudly proclaim their hatred for Creed is that generally they don't like admitting to liking uncool (read "critic/hipster disapproved") groups.

The problem with this theory is that you don't leave any room for the possibility that Creed was actually bad.

As someone who liked Creed, at least as far as not turning the radio when they were on, I've never understood how they topped so many worst-band-ever lists. Was it all because of Scott Stapp's hilarious rock god pretension?
posted by rcade at 11:34 AM on June 6, 2004

There were literally at least a dozen bands that all sounded the same,

and i had heard not a note from any of them.

to the point where I genuinely couldn't recognize which band was which when they came on the radio.

sounds like me, when it comes to my dad's Big Band fetishism.
posted by quonsar at 11:34 AM on June 6, 2004

Anyone want to wager on whether the new everyone-but-Stapp band will be any good?
posted by rcade at 11:35 AM on June 6, 2004

isn't simply about money,

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!

show me an indie band, and i'll show you an unsigned corporate boom box waiting to happen.
posted by quonsar at 11:38 AM on June 6, 2004

I have never been cool, but I do love music. Creed was not awful in an out-of-tune, inability-to-produce-music sense. I disliked them because of their mediocrity. Nothing clever in the lyrics, nothing clever in the music, and I often couldn't tell one song from another. As a contrasting example, I personally hate System of A Down, but I can at least credit them with doing something interesting. Creed was just a waste of time and airwaves.
posted by synapse at 11:43 AM on June 6, 2004

The problem with this theory is that you don't leave any room for the possibility that Creed was actually bad.

There's no accounting for taste. I can understand people not liking anything. I am puzzled by the sheer level of venom, when there are certainly far worse artists out there.

As for the pitchfork bands, sure, Creed's basically "big and dumb" rock, but I'll take big and dumb over "petentious and snotty" any day.
posted by jonmc at 11:44 AM on June 6, 2004

quonsar nails it. The point, I mean.

I cannot wait for the day Modest Mouse breaks up. I'll post a thread like this and see what the reaction is.

Heh. I don't think you'll have to wait for them to break up to see that pile on. See Liz Phair.

Indie cred can't be extended to someone who's hit MTV without causing richter-scale ambivalence in those whose social stock in trade is esoteric appeal.
posted by weston at 11:44 AM on June 6, 2004

There's a funny bit on the new David Cross cd, where he talks about meeting Scott Strapp at the taping for Celebrity Poker (after bashing on Creed repeatedly over the years).
posted by stifford at 11:47 AM on June 6, 2004

Hell, I've never had either mainstream or indie cred. Both scenes are photo negatives of eachother, with all cliquishness, one-upmanship and cooler-than-thou posturing. The only difference is that the mainstream crowd dosen't pretend not to be that way.
posted by jonmc at 11:48 AM on June 6, 2004

Hell, I've never had either mainstream or indie cred.

If we all got together and unanimously agreed that you are the "coolest" because you like all the "uncool" music, would you stop pointing it out in every single music thread.
posted by milovoo at 11:50 AM on June 6, 2004

God, jonmc, what a persecution complex you have.
posted by interrobang at 11:52 AM on June 6, 2004

whoa there. let's hold off on the blowhard britney and beyonce hate, mr man-of-the-people.
posted by Marquis at 11:54 AM on June 6, 2004

I've never heard creed but I though this, from the last link in the FPP, was hilarious:

Stapp said that what fans mistook for him passing out onstage during the song "Who's Got My Back" was actually a piece of rock and roll theater in which he lay down to make a point. "It was a symbolic, personal gesture," Stapp said. "I had some things going on in my life. I kind of felt alone. And it was a symbol that I didn't think anybody had my back at the time. Some people get it. Some people don't."

jonmc I cannot wait for the day Modest Mouse breaks up. I'll post a thread like this and see what the reaction is.

I'm a huge MM fan. However, I wish they'd break up. I wish they did so prior to their recent release, which is truly uninspired. (Or course, it will end up being their best selling album.)

I actually LIKE when great bands break up. For instance, I was delighted when The Pixies broke up even though they were one of my favorite bands. They clearly didn't like what they were doing anymore, so why bother continuing?

Plus, many great artists come from the ashes of their former bands.

I can't believe their are people who don't wish the Stones, Aerosmith, and countless other bands would split up. Please, do us all a favor. Do it for the fans.
posted by dobbs at 11:55 AM on June 6, 2004

Creed's first CD had a few good songs for those long drives down the highway, but My Own Prison and One were overplayed to the point that I can no longer stand them. I still like the song Torn quite a bit.

Everything that came after the first CD was either worse or simply didn't sound different enough from what I had already heard to catch my attention.

Now if you want to listen to metal, go find yourself some Queensryche and some Judas Priest.
posted by bargle at 11:55 AM on June 6, 2004

The people who have heard a Creed song or two but aren't interested I can understand. Fans who just like the music I can understand, but not necessarily relate to. Fans who like the music and get into the whole persona? I'm probably guilty of doing the same for a handful of bands.

But, people who know all about the persona but actively dislike the music? Why do you even know anything? I guess some people are around Creed fans and get it shoved in their faces... but still...
posted by mikeh at 11:56 AM on June 6, 2004

I'll take that bet, rcade. I read between the lines of everyone's statements that even the band didn't like their own music anymore. A miracle may be too much to ask for, but maybe something a bit more palatable isn't out of the question.

And can I just say to all the people in this thread who are self-flagellating because they anticipate being slammed for their opinions, that they might want to wait until the knives actually come out before they claim prejudice and abuse at the hands of us teeming sheeplike hipsterfuckers.

(Jon, to be clear, it's not just you I'm talking about. But your first post (and many subsequent posts, already!) in this thread are less about the band themselves than how everyone is obviously going to pile on the Creed-hatred, and by your definition, pile on you along with them. As a friend and a neighbor, I'm asking you to cut the defensiveness.)

And for what it's worth, I actually like Matchbox 20 & Britney rather more than I do Modest Mouse.
posted by chicobangs at 11:56 AM on June 6, 2004

milovoo, I could honestly give a rat's ass what anyone thinks of my taste in music. Cool is for teenagers, OK?

God, jonmc, what a persecution complex you have.

I wonder where it could come from?
posted by jonmc at 11:57 AM on June 6, 2004

I really should type faster.
posted by chicobangs at 11:58 AM on June 6, 2004

"coolest" because you like all the "uncool" music, would you stop pointing it out in every single music thread.

I think he should stop doing it when every single metafilter music thread stops being about how "cool" we are because we know the "cool" music is "uncool".

Cool?
posted by namespan at 11:58 AM on June 6, 2004

Well, they had a good run, anyway.
I resented them because my band was a tax write-off for their label.

My band had an awful relationship with the label which ended up putting out Creed's records. The Company even went so far as to recall all our albums from retail stores, then destroy the entire stock, without allowing us to buy them (we were still playing out, and could have used some to sell on the road). They even charged us for the privilege. (we lost them $250,000, according to their VERY creative bookkeeping, and continue to lose them money every quarter, somehow.)

The funny thing was, leaving the label, I told the owner and lawyer that they'd never find what they were looking for (a band that would play out 40 weeks a year, allow the label to pay their living expenses in recompensation only (you pay out-of-pocket, they'd pay you back sometime), would take orders and suggestions more willingly (they signed us to fill in a 'punk' slot in their lineup, and by the gods we gave them punk attitude back).

Anyway, within a couple of months, the label has changed its name because their reputation was so tarnished, they literally were a laughing stock in the community. Two months later, Creed was everywhere.

Proved me wrong, anyway.
posted by Busithoth at 11:58 AM on June 6, 2004

I could honestly give a rat's ass what anyone thinks of my taste in music.

OK, so why do we get to hear about it so much? Do you not agree that you bring it up a lot, even in very distantly related topics?
posted by milovoo at 12:00 PM on June 6, 2004

I wish some of you dudes wouldn't take your anger over creed breaking up out on us.
posted by mcsweetie at 12:01 PM on June 6, 2004

I'm a huge MM fan. However, I wish they'd break up. I wish they did so prior to their recent release, which is truly uninspired.

Wow. I didn't even have to type 5...4...3...2...
posted by weston at 12:02 PM on June 6, 2004

OK, so why do we get to hear about it so much? Do you not agree that you bring it up a lot, even in very distantly related topics?

How, exactly, would this thread not qualify as a strongly related topic?
posted by namespan at 12:04 PM on June 6, 2004

Hey, Ambulance LTD is really good.
posted by xmutex at 12:05 PM on June 6, 2004

I actually LIKE when great bands break up.

I've been waiting for Creed to breakup for years now...I always thought Tremonti was pretty good but never liked what Stapp brought to the group. I'm very interested to see what this Alter Bridge stuff sounds like.
posted by slhack3r at 12:05 PM on June 6, 2004

than how everyone is obviously going to pile on the Creed-hatred, and by your definition, pile on you along with them. As a friend and a neighbor, I'm asking you to cut the defensiveness

Fair enough, but we've had Creed bashes before and the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. And I don't like having group whipping boys, it's too much like a lynch mob for my taste.
posted by jonmc at 12:07 PM on June 6, 2004

Then don't play, jon.

Aaaaaaaand...
here's another question, to gauge our actual tastes in here and to deflect the hate back outward where it belongs:

With Creed and Phish both recently defuncted, who do you think is the worst big-ticket act out there? I'm just curious as to who really sucks.

The wretched Bizkit is still on the table, as are Slipknot, Evanescence and Hoobastank.
posted by chicobangs at 12:09 PM on June 6, 2004

You gotta be kidding, jonmc. You launched such a quick pre-emptive strike on self-important Creed-hating snobs that I looked over my shoulder to see if you were there.

In this thread and many others, I've never seen anyone embrace the low interests of the common man so tightly. You're suffocating him, dude.
posted by rcade at 12:09 PM on June 6, 2004

man, I do hate that Hoobastank song. ;)
posted by stifford at 12:14 PM on June 6, 2004

Did you get mugged by a group of indie kids or something? It's becoming a psychosis. Let it go already.
posted by milovoo at 12:15 PM on June 6, 2004

Dude, creed is not the lcd. They may not be the sweet, sweet 3159/117 of indie dreams, but they're no way there the 1/2 of Britney, Beyonce, etc. At worst, they're a 27/9.
posted by namespan at 12:19 PM on June 6, 2004

In this thread and many others, I've never seen anyone embrace the low interests of the common man so tightly. You're suffocating him, dude.

Eh.

The bands I slagged off above are just as popular as Creed. Embracing "low interests" has nothing to do with it. I just like the guitar riffs. And like I said, rcade, every other thread on Creed has been a bash fest, I figured somebody might as well jump up and take the bullet. :)

Did you get mugged by a group of indie kids or something? It's becoming a psychosis. Let it go already.

No. I've known some indie people (although they'd never called themselves that) who were great people, and I've hung out on music scenes plenty in my time. But it's hard not to get sick of people rolling their eyes at the LP you buy, or hear dumbass "mullethead" jokes when you mention that you like Skynyrd of Zeppelin. I mean when I was around "indie" meant "independent" as in, decide for yourself not this rigid set of trends.
posted by jonmc at 12:21 PM on June 6, 2004

I personally hate Creed for one reason: whenever I hear them on the Radio, I go into spasms and have a desire to rip my ears off.


Busithoth - what's the name of your band?
posted by Stynxno at 12:27 PM on June 6, 2004

But it's hard not to get sick of people rolling their eyes at the LP you buy,

I get it, but why revenge yourself on us? You end up doing the exact same thing to indie rock fans, "cool" kids and hipsters. Someone must stop this brinkmanship before it turns to bloodshed. Consider letting a critique that offends you slide every now and then, and perhaps after some years of healing, no one will taunt your zeppelin any more.
posted by milovoo at 12:32 PM on June 6, 2004

namespan, you geek. Heh.

So the Stappless Creed Mach II will go on, but what about the Great Rock And Roll Singer Scott Stapp(tm)? What's next for him? Vegas? Branson? Grad School? Opening a hardware store in his hometown? Perhaps a sitcom pilot on the WB with, oh, Kellie Martin and whassername, Dakota Fanning's little sister?

Incubus? Good Charlotte? Powerman fucking 5000, fergodsake?
posted by chicobangs at 12:33 PM on June 6, 2004

Stynxno – The Marshes

Grass Records was the label's old name.
Wind-Up Entertainment is the new.
posted by Busithoth at 12:38 PM on June 6, 2004

I had a mad crush on Kellie Martin, when she was on that missionary out west show.

Maybe I should call up the local station and dedicate "Higher" to her.
posted by jonmc at 12:39 PM on June 6, 2004

But it's hard not to get sick of people rolling their eyes at the LP you buy ...

You're in your 30s, jonmc. Speaking as another member of the same generation (you know, the last group of people who know what an "LP" is) -- it's officially time to stop caring what anyone else thinks about your personal interests. Cancel the subscription to Rolling Stone and promise you will never use the phrases "sell out" or "keepin' it real" again.

You are rapidly approaching the day when you will be old enough to wear black socks with shorts, pull them up to your knees, and stand in your front lawn yelling at anyone driving through your neighborhood at speeds faster than 5 miles per hour.

You can like what you want. Let the record store clerks of the world scoff -- they scoff when old people like us buy hip music too.
posted by rcade at 12:44 PM on June 6, 2004

but what about the Great Rock And Roll Singer Scott Stapp, what's next for him?

In 10 years he will follow the path of Vince Neil, get an extreme makeover, and reunite with his former bandmates for a reunion tour.

Oh yeah by the way...The Hunns rule.
posted by oh posey at 12:46 PM on June 6, 2004

OK, wanna watch Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman with me for a while and have some melba toast?
posted by jonmc at 12:46 PM on June 6, 2004

Not if you're gonna complain about being made fun of for watching it.
posted by interrobang at 12:49 PM on June 6, 2004

I'm a huge MM fan. However, I wish they'd break up. I wish they did so prior to their recent release, which is truly uninspired.

Which is where the whole "Your favorite band sucks" thing comes from. Just stop listening. Do you enjoy music or do you enjoy "enjoying" the obscure? The new Modest Mouse album isn't their best, but it's a great disc. "Uninspired" is a wonderful adjective because it's just like saying "it's not good" except it sounds like you're holding back some huge insight rather than expressing an opinion. Sorry you don't enjoy it. But that's no reason to hope they break up. Yes it sucks when good bands become popular (Nissan Quest commercials, bandwagon jumpers, etc.), but no band owes it to you to stay obscure because you dropped a few bucks on their releases.

jonmc, there are better bands to hate on (if one finds that time well spent) than Modest Mouse. I know they've become MetaFilter's band du [year], but that's no reason to pick on Isaac, et al. Given what I know of your tastes, you might like This is a Long Drive . . . and The Lonesome Crowded West.
posted by yerfatma at 12:51 PM on June 6, 2004

I can't say I've ever listened, honestly, but when people get riled up about Creed, they seem to be complaining more about their ubiquity than anything else. There's nothing apocalyptic about some average-to-okay rock'n'roll. But I don't understand why one band, largely indistinguishable from a zillion other average rock bands, should get so much play, and so many honors. Clearly, they're a marketing phenomenon, not a musical one.
posted by scarabic at 12:52 PM on June 6, 2004

Not if you're gonna complain about being made fun of for watching it.

No, I'm retiring from music threads. I also don't have any melba toast. I do have some frosted animal crackers with a picture of Spiderman on the bag if you'd like. And the Gilmore Girls is on. Sooky's such a hottie.
posted by jonmc at 12:54 PM on June 6, 2004

Well, I have melba toast, on top of my refrigerator. You don't have to be old to like the stuff.
posted by interrobang at 12:56 PM on June 6, 2004

I just like the guitar riffs.

*sidles over, throws an arm around jonmc's shoulder*

yeah. that's my secret criteria too. i really don't care if it sucks overall.

*wanders off humming ernie isley's fills from "who's that lady"*
posted by quonsar at 12:58 PM on June 6, 2004

I read somewhere that the Olsen Twins list Modest Mouse as their favorite band.

That might mean something. I don't know.
posted by chicobangs at 1:05 PM on June 6, 2004

*doing my best wendell impression*

MeFites are advised to please avoid piling onto the subject or the messenger!!!
posted by skallas at 1:07 PM on June 6, 2004

scarabic: Clearly, they're a marketing phenomenon, not a musical one.

Well put. My disdain for commercial music, FM radio, etc is not some form of elitism that keeps me happy, its the fucking lack of any diversity. Top40/Clearchannel/MTV gives you a handful of bands a year and expects you to see their every grunt as a musical triumph of the will, or some such.

The indie/unsigned scene is ALL variety, all the time. I'm constatly exporing and finding new acts; some crappy, some mindblowing. This is just a classic top-down versus bottom-up approach to culture. Commercial radio and its stars are just so much the product of top-down philosophy that no one is even bothered at the prospect of producers putting together bands for market niches.

The ubiqiuity of it all just drives me crazy. I don't know how people listen to the same two dozen songs in rotation on the radio. Well I can, actually. If I was under-21 and stuck in some suburb, the only exposure to culture I would get would be from big commercial outlets and I would believe that Creed is significant in a way, when they're really more a product of successful marketers and a lack of competition.

Its nice to see stuff like streaming radio, P2P, and webboards expose people to something other than what the radio has to offer. Its a shame that others see me as "elitist" or whatever label should be attached to someone who has a strong interest in something and thinks that shoddy commercialization of that thing is helping ruin it.

Creed isn't really doing anything wrong, but they are part of a very flawed system which inflates their worth. On an even playing field they would be playing open mic night for quarter beers.

What ever happened to our American free market philosophy? Its become rhetoric to protect monopolies if you ask me.
posted by skallas at 1:20 PM on June 6, 2004

Creed sucked. I know this because I listened to them and thought, "These guys suck."

My system of critiquing music seems to be a little simpler than jonmc's.
posted by eyeballkid at 1:32 PM on June 6, 2004

I've never understood how they topped so many worst-band-ever lists. Was it all because of Scott Stapp's hilarious rock god pretension?

Pretty much, yeah. Just sorta want to punch him in the nose EVERY SINGLE MINUTE.

Also, I used to be really into Mariah Carey back in the day.
posted by cortex at 1:33 PM on June 6, 2004

No, I'm retiring from music threads.

Thank goodness, though I'll believe it when I see it.

The "anti-cool, I'm just a common man down with the people" schtick is frankly as annoying as the post-modern, elitist, cynicism-riddled hipster one. Even more so at times, as the former often veers into self-righteousness, where the latter is at least dimly aware it's a vacuous, thinly-veneered excuse for a philosophy.

And Creed sucked dung out of a monkey's ass.
posted by jalexei at 1:35 PM on June 6, 2004

Busithoth -- The Marshes that did the split 7" with Travis Cut on Speedowax?

Ditto to what Eyeballkid said.
posted by xpermanentx at 1:37 PM on June 6, 2004

What media were "indie" people listening to such that they were bombarded by Creed and got sick of it? I don't get it. I can honestly say I have no idea what Creed sounds like, and I listen to the radio and buy new music all the time. With so many different ways to hear music these days, how is it that people are forced to listen to music they hate? And if you don't have to listen to it, why get worked up over other people listening to it by choice?
posted by Voivod at 1:37 PM on June 6, 2004

Which is where the whole "Your favorite band sucks" thing comes from. Just stop listening.

Well, now that I have your permission, I guess I will!

Do you enjoy music or do you enjoy "enjoying" the obscure?

I enjoy good music, I don't care how obscure it is. Further, I really wouldn't know how obscure it is as I'm not in the loop. As I said, I've never heard Creed, for example, and didn't diss their music. I merely thought that quote rather funny. If Modest Mouse is getting radio play, all the power to them.

The new Modest Mouse album isn't their best, but it's a great disc.

Guess what? I'm the arbiter of taste around my house. You can be the arbiter of taste around yours. We can disagree on things. The world (and the band) will continue on.

"Uninspired" is a wonderful adjective because it's just like saying "it's not good" except it sounds like you're holding back some huge insight rather than expressing an opinion.

No, my opinion is that it's unispired. The lyrics are Brock-light, the drummer's a joke compared to Green, the album is mostly pretty flat, and it doens't make me want to sing, dance, fuck, or tell anyone about it. In short, uninspired.

Sorry you don't enjoy it. But that's no reason to hope they break up.

I was merely commenting on the fact that all MM fans aren't going to cry in jonmc's forthcoming "Modest Mouse calls it quits" thread. I, for one, would look forward to what Brock does next as what he's doing now bores me. (Still wondering if Green's gonna do anything else.)

Yes it sucks when good bands become popular

Um, no it doesn't. I spend a great deal of time promoting the bands I like (mix discs, mp3 giveaways, dragging people to concerts, bringing them up in conversation, linking from mefi, building them web sites, whater I can). I wish good artists all the success in the world. My tastes don't depend inversely on popularity, regardless of what you think.

Your assumption (and it's a common one) that everyone who likes indie music only likes it because it's obscure is inaccurate. I like Modest Mouse's first few albums because they do make me want to sing, dance, fuck, and tell everyone about them. I've done all of the above to all of their previous records and will keep doing it in the future. Just try and stop me! :)

but no band owes it to you to stay obscure because you dropped a few bucks on their releases.

Yeah, whatever. Keep hanging with the cool kids at assumptions junction.
posted by dobbs at 1:44 PM on June 6, 2004

As for the pitchfork bands, sure, Creed's basically "big and dumb" rock, but I'll take big and dumb over "petentious and snotty" any day.

You're confusing the pitchfork reviews with the bands themselves. I don't think they even bother to review bands like Creed... Although right now there is a review of the latest Pink Floyd release on their frontpage. They gave it a 9/10... Pitchfork's greatest flaw isn't their snottiness- I don't really see that attidtude much over there- it's that they continually write album reviews that read more like creative writing exercises in free association... Pitchfork reviews pretty much suck. The bands they write about often don't...
posted by crank at 1:45 PM on June 6, 2004

Is everyone more touchy this week, or is it just you me?
posted by chicobangs at 1:53 PM on June 6, 2004

Can some explain the point of Incubus to me?
posted by feelinglistless at 1:56 PM on June 6, 2004

I do have some frosted animal crackers with a picture of Spiderman on the bag if you'd like.

holy crap! pass them around!

i like ebk's system. i think i'll borrow it.
posted by Stynxno at 1:58 PM on June 6, 2004

Can some explain the point of Incubus to me?

The guy sings songs with his shirt off!
posted by interrobang at 1:59 PM on June 6, 2004

Thank goodness, though I'll believe it when I see it.

Yeah, I love you, too, sweetheart.

The "anti-cool, I'm just a common man down with the people" schtick is frankly as annoying as the post-modern, elitist, cynicism-riddled hipster one. Even more so at times, as the former often veers into self-righteousness, where the latter is at least dimly aware it's a vacuous, thinly-veneered excuse for a philosophy.

I don't claim it as a philosophy, at least when it comes to music. I like what I like, but tell me there isn't a lot of condescension and posturing in the music scene today. Pointing that out dosen't make me self-righteous.


The indie/unsigned scene is ALL variety, all the time

In theory. But, I turn on college radio or listen to new releases we get at work and I hear band after band with the same listless rhythms, drony guitars, mumbled/twee vocals and bored sounding musicianship. Sorry, but that's just not my bag. But if you say that, people assume you're either a dumb suburban fratboy or some dupe of commercialism. That's irritating and off-putting.


I'll still find music to listen to, but it's almost never new. I'll dig up some band I haven't heard from some earlier musical movement.
posted by jonmc at 2:11 PM on June 6, 2004

That was a short retirement.
posted by interrobang at 2:14 PM on June 6, 2004

See, music is just one more thing to argue about. It's like arguing about sports teams or cars. The argument isn't that important, but allows everyone to get a little steamed, give a little rant and walk away whistling to shitty melody line of their choice. My musical taste is so obscure (in a bad way) that I don't even really have the ability to argue rock and roll anymore. I've honestly never heard (but I have heard of) bands such as Creed.
posted by elwoodwiles at 2:24 PM on June 6, 2004

Hrm, I am out of touch. I can't seem to link them to any particular song. Must be a factor of not having a working car radio for most of the last 5 years.
posted by KirkJobSluder at 2:26 PM on June 6, 2004

hey, interrobang, jalexei's little snark amounted to "I don't like what you say so thank god you won't talk anymore." Must be that independent thinking I keep hearing about.
posted by jonmc at 2:27 PM on June 6, 2004

Jalexi's comment was more like: "your tired pretend-apathy schtick is getting boring, jonmc, so if you're going to stop stumbling into threads and claiming not to care more than anyone else, good."
posted by interrobang at 2:30 PM on June 6, 2004

now, you're not making sense, interrobang, at least not in the context of this thread. And nobody's answered my initial question. Probably cause I'm right.
posted by jonmc at 2:34 PM on June 6, 2004

Pretentious or not, the one great rule of the MeFi Swap -- No Creed ever -- still stands.

That is all.
posted by Dreama at 2:37 PM on June 6, 2004

Yeah. About that question jonmc. It doesn't seem to refer to anything.
posted by eyeballkid at 2:37 PM on June 6, 2004

I've said that Morrissey sucks, and The Cure suck and that techno suck in numerous threads here and been called out for it because I was "shitting on threads." Fair enough.

But a third Creed sucks thread is fun for the whole family. How does that make sense. The only reason I can see is that the majority of the community likes the aforementioned groups and hates Creed. People are entitled to like whatever but isn't it a double standard to say "say one thing sucks, bad" "say something else sucks, good." ?
posted by jonmc at 2:42 PM on June 6, 2004

MetaFilter: jonmc likes better music than you (and the best of the web, if there's still room)
posted by milovoo at 2:44 PM on June 6, 2004

milovoo, it's mor like the other way around. Don't dare deviate from the herd opinion or you'll get gang-tackled.

But you know what, it's not elitism that gets me angry in threads like this. It's the smug, self-satsfied attitude. If I can make someone uncomfortable, I'm gonna do it. Deal.
posted by jonmc at 2:47 PM on June 6, 2004

metafilter doesn't do music very well
posted by mr.marx at 2:49 PM on June 6, 2004

Don't dare deviate from the herd opinion or you'll get gang-tackled.

I listened to Radiohead, and have deduced that they suck too. I've been piled up on for that one, but I really don't give a shit. For a guy into doing his own thing, you really have some thin skin. Gang-tackled? Dude, you're forgetting the cardinal rule.
posted by eyeballkid at 2:55 PM on June 6, 2004

xpermanentx – That is the one.

We liked Europe more than US for playing out.
posted by Busithoth at 2:55 PM on June 6, 2004

Metafilter, like most other discussion forums, can do music just fine if you just filter out the one or two users so vain they think the conversation is about THEM.
posted by Voivod at 3:00 PM on June 6, 2004

If I can make someone uncomfortable, I'm gonna do it. Deal.

Seriously, you sound like a petulant child saying stuff like that. Have some respect for your fellow posters. The fact that you listen to common older music that we've all heard a million times in commercials and on the radio is not all that impressive. The fact that you make it a mission, and get in our face with it to tell us how pretentious, elitist and herd-minded we are, doesn't really sell the point either. I listen to random crap too, so what?
posted by milovoo at 3:01 PM on June 6, 2004

which would be worse, the success of bands like Creed, or more pitchforkmedia?

More pitchforkmedia. I wrote them off wholesale when I saw more than a few articles writing off John Mayer, Toad the Wet Sprocket, and other artists really worthy of respect whether you like them or not --- and not only that, the write-off was so off the cuff, as if it wasn't even worth considering doing actual criticism, and it should be understood that that stuff was just dopey popish tripe (and here, let me tell you what you really should be listening to).

And the worst part about it is that though the sneering criteria seems to be that these bands aren't innovative enough for them, I've yet to see most of the questers for the musically unique refer to (much less write a review of), say, Eric Whitacre or Steve Reich or George Crumb. Or sometimes they sneer at insincerity -- but how familiar are they with the ultra-sincere, raw, down in the dirt roots based music, or talk about some of the artists it inspires (Iris Dement? Greg Brown? Dar Williams?)

And in addition to displaying little interest in music they should at least be curious about if they're sincere about their criteria of creativity and sincerity, it's also worth considering that bands they sneer at actually display both. Take Toad the Wet Sprocket -- Fear was a great pop-rock album, with some bouncy stuff that I could understand people who don't like radio-friendly stuff not caring for much, but there's stuff like Butterflies on it. Nothing new in itself for veteran listeners of progressive rock... except, wait a minute, this was progressive rock merged almost perfectly with a more listenable, shorter, less indulgent common song form. You can dislike it, but to say there's nothing good or interesting going on in that song is to say that you're either not listening or are totally blind to the aesthetics involved there.

And that's the bottom line: Pitchfork comes off as not only having aesthetic blind spots, but often as actively embracing them, even wanting to dictate them as arbiters of aesthetic superiority. It's not so much that the bands they recommend suck -- many of their recommendations are good ones. Their criticisms, though, really suck badly, because they're rarely able to demonstrate that they even understand the criteria that the music they dislike should be judged by.
posted by weston at 3:02 PM on June 6, 2004

but tell me there isn't a lot of condescension and posturing in the music scene today.

Well there certainly is a lot of posturing. Check out this link to the new band formed by ex-Creed members that rcade provided. Look at that pic, especially the guy in to foreground trying to look tough. It's just awful and cliched. They might as well have taken a promo shot of them standing on railroad tracks, maybe wearing leather vests with no shirts on underneath.
posted by crank at 3:03 PM on June 6, 2004

The fact that you listen to common older music that we've all heard a million times in commercials and on the radio is not all that impressive

You write a sentence like that, and then claim not to be elitist.

*pinches milovoo's cheek*

very cute.
posted by jonmc at 3:03 PM on June 6, 2004

It's just awful and cliched

as opposed to yet another batch of guys with scruffy hair and thick glasses (or god help us, trucker hats) trying to look deep?
posted by jonmc at 3:06 PM on June 6, 2004

jonmc likes better music than you

I think jonmc's original point wasn't so much that as:

(1) that there's a big difference between saying "BandX sucks" and "I really don't like BandX."
(2) there's a difference between not liking BandX and hanging them on the front page to use as a freakin' Pinata.
posted by weston at 3:07 PM on June 6, 2004

as opposed to yet another batch of guys with scruffy hair and thick glasses (or god help us, trucker hats) trying to look deep?

God, jonmc, don't you get it? You are the elitist in this thread. Do you hate scientists and intellectuals and academics, too?
posted by interrobang at 3:09 PM on June 6, 2004

jonmc: i like you man, but I think you've really made some false assumptions here. No one in this thread is bashing Creed to showcase their indie cred or music elitism--they're simply pointing out the brain-dead-obvious fact that Creed's music was utter utter shit. It makes me no "cooler" for typing that any more than if I pointed out that water is wet or that the sun will rise in the east tommorrow.
posted by dhoyt at 3:10 PM on June 6, 2004

In theory. But, I turn on college radio or listen to new releases we get at work and I hear band after band with the same listless rhythms, drony guitars, mumbled/twee vocals and bored sounding musicianship. Sorry, but that's just not my bag. But if you say that, people assume you're either a dumb suburban fratboy or some dupe of commercialism. That's irritating and off-putting.

ok, I'll bite

the only thing that's irritating is that you blame some ghost "hipster" crowd for the fact that you're gotten too old/lazy/whatever to have a genuine interest in new music. if everything you find are "bored sounding musicianship", then you're not looking very hard, period.

what's off-putting is you labeling anyone who craves newer music than lynyrd skynyrd as "cool" or "hipster" or "elitist" or whatever. as someone with a real life long interest in finding new musical kicks I'm downright offended. if I don't like old riff rock I just listen to music to be cool? right.

and frankly, the fact that you repeatedly use the cure as an example of the hipster's music of choice shows how off you clock is. it ain't the 80's no more.
posted by mr.marx at 3:14 PM on June 6, 2004

^and what he said.
posted by dhoyt at 3:16 PM on June 6, 2004

No, my point was more or less what weston said.


what's off-putting is you labeling anyone who craves newer music than lynyrd skynyrd as "cool" or "hipster" or "elitist" or whatever. as someone with a real life long interest in finding new musical kicks I'm downright offended. if everything you find are "bored sounding musicianship", then you're not looking very hard, period.

My record collection fills a room of my apartment. I had to buy a new hard drive to make room for my mp3's. I'm looking as hard as anyone. I work in the music industry tracking new product. I see as much new stuff as anyone, but that's beside the point of why I'm angry in this thread.

You are the elitist in this thread. Do you hate scientists and intellectuals and academics, too?

No, I said that to say "Is one set of cliches innately inferior to an other set of cliches?"

This is at least the third thread that amounted to "Don't Creed suck?"

Say that about any other band or any other anything and it'd be considered polluting the front page. Am I wrong?

If all we're saying is Gee, dosen't this band suck, that's productive and intersting how? What's the actual point?
posted by jonmc at 3:20 PM on June 6, 2004

"There's only two kinds of music in the world. Music you like, and music you don't." --Lemmy, Motorhead.

Creed's just a band, a broken-up band I might add, fuckin' let it go people. Somewhere out there you will find someone who will levy the exact same complaints you've lodged against Creed, only against your band.

Music is about opinion and taste. Regardless of what you may think, yours is neither better or more informed than anyone else's. Stop spending so much time worrying about what other people like -- and existence of bands you don't like -- and worry about finding things you enjoy. The fact that you think (band) sucks has no impact on anything, anywhere, except this thread.

Now, back to the new Cannibal Corpse album....
posted by Dark Messiah at 3:29 PM on June 6, 2004

Guess what? I'm the arbiter of taste around my house. You can be the arbiter of taste around yours.

dobbs, in your rush to defend your silly "opinions," you've completely missed my point: what I'm suggesting is that I should be the arbiter of cool at the dobbs' household. Before, or inside a five minute window after, sampling any media, you call my voicemail or hit the automated email account with the item in question in the subject line (leave the body empty or the script gets messed up) and you'll have your shiny new opinion. Respond to any questions about tv by saying you don't own one (this keeps our costs low and margins high).

See me in the next political thread and we can talk about an expansion pack. And how to turn in your neighbors to the authorities.
posted by yerfatma at 3:29 PM on June 6, 2004

Jonmc, precious man-flower: the "I'm cooler than you because you are trying to be cool by listening to 'that' music, wheras I have the courage to like the music you distain as 'uncool'" thing is overplayed, like much of the music on commerical rock stations. Some of it's great - if only they'd quit shoving the same 5 fucking songs up my ass. There's alot of bands out there that get a bad rap simply because commerical radio refuses to even play other material from their albums, never mind the hordes of great bands that would be huge if only they got the opportunity to be heard outside of college radio.

I like Creed songs to a certain extent, but I can't stand Scott Stapp's posturing, bringing Jeebus to the common man crap. It's annoying.

As for "Cool" vs "Uncool" music, recognizing a great pop song for what it is, minus concern for your hipster reputation just one of those things that develops over time. I'm not ashamed to say it: "Hey Ya", "Rock Your Body", and "Beautiful" are great fucking songs. Thin Lizzy's "Whiskey in the Jar" and "Jail Break" are two of the best rock songs ever recorded. So is "Follow the Day" by The Polyphonic Spree, "Anodyne" by Uncle Tupelo, or Calexico's cover of "Corona". I could go on for days. However, I don't count myself as somehow enlightened and culturally superior for thinking so. It's just my fucking opinion.

But if my opinion counts for anything to anyone, I highly recommend Holly Golightly or The Thrills
posted by echolalia67 at 3:59 PM on June 6, 2004

The fact that you listen to common older music that we've all heard a million times in commercials and on the radio is not all that impressive

You write a sentence like that, and then claim not to be elitist.

It's not an insult or a criticism. There are a lot of overexposed bands that you describe as being the best thing since sliced bread. I simply don't care that much about supertramp or journey or some of the other bands that you think are the lost masters. If I was dismissing them out of hand and had never heard them, then perhaps you would have a point, but I am familiar with the artist that you have described and to me they are just popular radio fodder which I have thoroughly listened to and don't care about. If you dig them, good for you, but I don't think that makes preemptive shitting on threads necessary.

People here have hugely diverse tastes in music and art and culture, why do you have to claim the hive-mind, gang-pile, group-think issue is to blame for things you personally don't care for, or for the fact that people don't agree with your views?
posted by milovoo at 4:03 PM on June 6, 2004

Jonmc, precious man-flower: the "I'm cooler than you because you are trying to be cool by listening to 'that' music, wheras I have the courage to like the music you distain as 'uncool'" thing is overplayed, like much of the music on commerical rock stations.

That, honestly, is not what I'm trying to say here, or why I got so angry. Despite my affection for butt-rock, like you I listen to all kinds of stuff. I just thought the thread was somewhat gratuitous because all the other threads realting to Creed were ugly predictable pile-ons. Then my statements were misinterpreted and it turned into the same tired debate, which (mea culpa) I did not have to allow myself to indulge in. But I do still believe taht an entire thread devoted to how a band sucks especially since we've said it before is not such a great idea.


People here have hugely diverse tastes in music and art and culture, why do you have to claim the hive-mind, gang-pile, group-think issue is to blame for things you personally don't care for, or for the fact that people don't agree with your views?

Just cause it seems like it's always the same stuff that gets knocked down. You say I've pushed the anti-indie thing too far and that it's a cliche. Guilty as charged. But the converse is true as well.
posted by jonmc at 4:10 PM on June 6, 2004

The Garfield movie comes out on Friday.
posted by yerfatma at 4:24 PM on June 6, 2004

Well, as The Stapp himself once said, everyone:

"Thanks for the words."

["Yeah, well..."]
on preview: /me points, winks, and smiles at stifford

posted by britain at 4:35 PM on June 6, 2004

hey, interrobang, jalexei's little snark amounted to "I don't like what you say so thank god you won't talk anymore." Must be that independent thinking I keep hearing about.

Hey - you're the one who claimed you were retiring...

But seriously - I snarked with affection (I'd like to think if we'd ever met it'd be like Terry Bradshaw and Burt Reynolds in that stuntman movie: cold beers after the initial fisticuffs). I just think think anti-elitism is another form of elitism - and that we're all elitist in our way.

I just love music, "cool"or not (the first concert I ever saw was Rush, fer goodness sakes). I've just never understood (as someone as into music as you are) your extreme contempt for "college" rock. There's plenty more than trucker hats and droning guitars, but even if there wasn't - isn't copping an attitude and finding your tribe a rock and roll attitude after all?
posted by jalexei at 5:02 PM on June 6, 2004

There's plenty more than trucker hats and droning guitars,

That's just it, there used to be, but I'm seeing it less. And I always kinda felt some contept for my stuff coming from some in that quarter. That's all it is.
posted by jonmc at 5:14 PM on June 6, 2004

Topic...

topic...


oh right. There it is.

I've been imagining "ReCreed, featuring Sammy Hagar!" all afternoon while walking around outside doing errands. (Outside! It was wonderful here in NYC. Cool, sunny, beautiful spring day. Glad I caught some of it. That's a hint.)

The thought of the old Creed doing There's Only One Way To Rock kept me giggling like, well, like an Incubus fan at the laundry for hours.
posted by chicobangs at 5:43 PM on June 6, 2004

But I do still believe taht an entire thread devoted to how a band sucks especially since we've said it before is not such a great idea.

I like Creed -- any band whose guitarist uses his money to decorate his home with original Advanced Dungeons & Dragons cover art are my kind of gauche rock gods.

Mark Tremonti reminds me of Dirk Diggler bragging to his friends about his "imported Italian nylon" shoes in Boogie Nights. The guy's so incredibly normal that his fans save quotes like this: "I don't like jello. But I do love pudding!"

The reason I posted this thread was because MetaFilter's hatred of the band is part of our lore -- so many things tear us apart, but Creed unites us, crossing political and cultural lines.

The band drives people into a frenzy, and by people I mean you. Twenty-six posts and counting!
posted by rcade at 5:53 PM on June 6, 2004

With so many different ways to hear music these days, how is it that people are forced to listen to music they hate?

Because they sometimes spend time in the company of others with different music-listening habits?
posted by cortex at 5:55 PM on June 6, 2004

The band drives people into a frenzy, and by people I mean you. Twenty-six posts and counting!

/hands rcade a stick, points to nearest anthole
posted by namespan at 6:51 PM on June 6, 2004

DEATH TO FALSE METAL!!!
Oh look, a music thread that's more about jonmc, than music.
posted by inpHilltr8r at 7:03 PM on June 6, 2004

rcade: The reason I posted this thread was because MetaFilter's hatred of the band is part of our lore -- so many things tear us apart, but Creed unites us, crossing political and cultural lines.

That, and the ironic "*love the singer, hate the song" cognitive dissonance that comes up everytime that Britney Spears does something to get in the news.

I'm in agreement with johnmc's position here. (Even though his taste in music sucks**, but of course, in keeping with the spirit of this thread, everybody's taste in music sucks, mine just sucks less than yours sucks.) I fail to see much of a point in all of these ritualistic group liturgies of how bad a band is. It's rather like the old-style church meetings where you can get up and testify as long as what you say uses a unique turn of phrase and agrees with everyone else.

(* "love" here in the pathetic, hopless, voyeristic sense of the word.)

(** "suck" here meaning "suck eggs." I don't want to be accused of insulting something by saying that it gives good oral sex after all.)
posted by KirkJobSluder at 7:36 PM on June 6, 2004

Back on topic:

Creed sucks.
posted by solistrato at 7:50 PM on June 6, 2004

haha.

music with guitars.

why do they still bother? after black sabbath's "vol. 4," the whole thing was over.
posted by dvdgee at 7:56 PM on June 6, 2004

yerfatma, I read that quote and I couldn't stop laughing. Seriously. If I could give you a flower, I would.
posted by Stynxno at 8:07 PM on June 6, 2004

Wow, we suck the joy out of everything here! I can't decide who's being elitist or not in this thread. I just think everybody here is old.
posted by furiousthought at 8:08 PM on June 6, 2004

Wow, we suck the joy out of everything here!

Well, the joy of the band's demise is something. It's always awesome when the entire band re-forms without the singer.

Ahem, I mean vocalist.

I'm a little surprised that this post is closing in on Reagan's obit post. That says something about elliciting a reaction from people, anyway.

The Garfield movie comes out on Friday.posted by yerfatma

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted by Busithoth at 8:37 PM on June 6, 2004

I just want to add a little length to this already far too long thread. (how many words does creed deserve??)

yeah, they kinda suck. What made them BLOW was the lead singer and his 'im secretly jesus' complex.

i wonder about the correlation to Dday and reagn kicking the bucket though......
posted by Tryptophan-5ht at 9:24 PM on June 6, 2004

Britney Spears' songs are the main, and in the end only, thing I love about her.

And as a singer, I too have had a band break up and reform without me. (Shut up.) So ultimately I sympathize with Mr. Stapp, and while I know he's not really Jesus (because, y'know, I know who is, wink wink), I wish nothing but the best for him.

("The best," of course, meaning any scenario that means I never have to hear him sing again as long as I live.)
posted by chicobangs at 10:49 PM on June 6, 2004

Only one Nickelback comment in this and the other thread. I'm impressed. There horribleness is either not widely known or my opinion (entirely subjective of course) is not widely shared. Now what was that rumour about the remaining Creed members teaming up with Malkmus?
posted by juiceCake at 11:04 PM on June 6, 2004

Metafilter: Wow, we suck the joy out of everything here!
posted by allaboutgeorge at 11:25 PM on June 6, 2004

Modest Mouse... band with the "Float On" song, right? I need to give them a try. I've been taking antibiotics and they totally fuck me up, so I have been up off and on late at night watching eMpTyV and VH-1 and I like that song pretty well. Watched a bunch of videos the last few nights, all was new to me but there were only two songs that I thought were worth a second listen. One I don't remember much about, some weird video with old boxers fighting and crap. And that Float On video with the sheep.
posted by bargle at 11:28 PM on June 6, 2004

"There's only two kinds of music in the world. Music you like, and music you don't." --Lemmy, Motorhead.

The thread should have ended when Lemmy was quoted, I reckon.

Also, because I've lost track, and I lame or cool that I'm not sure if I've ever heard a Creed song? Or am I automatically one or the other for asking that question? (Or asking the question about asking the question? (or...(or...)))
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:32 AM on June 7, 2004

If you have to ask if you're lame or cool, then you're lame. Cool people just know.
posted by Jart at 6:17 AM on June 7, 2004

For the first time ever, I'm skipping to the end from the beginning of the comments to refute a point without reading the intervening posts:

johnmc: "But Creed were a)Christian-associated and b) metal, two things that are unpopular here."

Creed is not metal! Creed can barely even be called false metal, that's how very, very far from metal they are.

Hail and Kill!
posted by jennyb at 6:31 AM on June 7, 2004

they're simply pointing out the brain-dead-obvious fact that Creed's music was utter utter shit.

that's as intelligent as me pointing out that your girlfriend, car and home are all utter utter shit.
posted by quonsar at 7:49 AM on June 7, 2004

Maybe she just didn't dig your pickup line, Q. Happens to the best of us.

And as far as the car & the house are concerned, well, not all of us bring the bling to your mighty degree, brother. Pleased to meet you, O man of wealth and taste.
posted by chicobangs at 8:15 AM on June 7, 2004

Busithoth--wow, Grass Records seems to have screwed things up in a pretty major way with their pre-Creed bands. Here's a similar story from the Wrens' website (a really good band I discovered via Pitchfork, by the way):

Halfway into first tour supporting Secaucus, the wrens are told that if they do not sign their ‘big buck record contract’ all promotion for Secaucus will be stopped. The wrens, frowning on strong-arm tactics, do not re-sign and as promised, all promotion (including support for a pending tour of Europe with Brainiac) is pulled. The head of the record company, infuriated, commences layoffs of involved record company personnel and vows that “the next band to walk through that door will be made famous - at any cost”. The next band through the door is Creed. Grass Records becomes Wind Up Records. Creed becomes famous at any cost.

posted by hal incandenza at 10:19 AM on June 7, 2004