Comments on: Inside America's secret Afghan gulag

Inside America's secret Afghan gulag

Pretty_Generic — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 03:31:01 -0800

Bumper-size Guardian investigation into routine abuse of US prisoners in Afghanistan.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 05:08:59 -0800

maybe all this torture and abuse is some weird psychological plan trying to tell people not to mess with us? (nothing would surprise me anymore coming from the feverish--and tortured--brains of this administration)

By: acrobat

acrobat — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 06:50:26 -0800

I don't think there is any plan. It's ignorance, and probably frustration. Interrogation is usually reserved for people that you know they know. This is not the case in Afganistan or in Iraq. And the administration wants results, at any cost. And the top brass think "I'll be damned if I am going to risk promotion for some innocent asses". So you end up saying "ok, round up some (hundreds, thousands) people, squeeze them and they're gonna give something. They're all guilty for not standing still to get screwed anyway". And that's when all the nasty elements in the military have a field day. And that's how you become hated, and when you realise you've failed it's already too late. And their blood will be upon you and upon your children. Yep. Nasty bit of business.

By: Steve_at_Linnwood

Steve_at_Linnwood — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:17:57 -0800

I wonder where the bumper-size Guardian investigation into routine torture/mutilation/murder of citizens in Saddam's prisons in Iraq is...

By: signal

signal — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:18:37 -0800

Torture is a form of terrorism, IMO, in that it uses fear as a means to a political end. Its arbitrariness is a central part of its strategy, not knowing who will be the next victim makes everybody equally scared. And it's not "weird", it's common practice by oppressive regimes the world over. The idea that systematic torture is just something misguided grunts come up with rather than a deliberate policy is naive, at best.

By: thatwhichfalls

thatwhichfalls — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:25:47 -0800

"I wonder where the bumper-size Guardian investigation into routine torture/mutilation/murder of citizens in Saddam's prisons in Iraq is..." - Steve_at_Linnwood Roughly once a week through most of the eigthties and nineties Steve. Of course those reports don't count because Saddam was a good back guy then ...

By: thatwhichfalls

thatwhichfalls — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:27:20 -0800

"good back guy then" = "good guy back then"

By: Steve_at_Linnwood

Steve_at_Linnwood — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:33:54 -0800

You mean, back in the nineties, when the Guardian thought there was a Saddam link to Bin Laden?

By: thatwhichfalls

thatwhichfalls — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:39:06 -0800

"Saddam Hussein's regime has opened talks with Osama bin Laden, bringing closer the threat of a terrorist attack using chemical, biological or nuclear weapons, according to US intelligence sources and Iraqi opposition officials." I know, poor deluded Guardian, to trust those unscrupulous US intelligence sources and Iraqi opposition officials (whose names might begin with a "Ch" sound perhaps?). Just as well we know better than to trust such tainted sources eh?

By: Armitage Shanks

Armitage Shanks — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:39:11 -0800

I wonder where the bumper-size Guardian investigation into routine torture/mutilation/murder of citizens in Saddam's prisons in Iraq is... I wonder why Steve doesn't want to be any better than Saddam.

By: signal

signal — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:59:09 -0800

I get the feeling that Steve's point is that if he could choose, he'd rather be tortured by Americans than Iraqis. At least their dogs have had all their shots, right?

By: fold_and_mutilate

fold_and_mutilate — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:53:38 -0800

Cool. Saddam. Abu Ghraib. "Strip Them And Use The Dogs" Rumsfeld, and "Laws Against Torture Don't Apply If We Decide They Don't" "Bush. The ethically-challenged right wing's cognitive dissonance is a stark wonder to behold.

By: davehat

davehat — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 11:59:34 -0800

How many Americans read the Guardian before 1999? I'm guessing not many, apart from those who subscribed to the Guardian Weekly or those who lived in the UK.

By: ed

ed — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 13:52:49 -0800

Woof woof.

By: riviera

riviera — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:14:26 -0800

I do love the foetid smell of moral equivalency in the morning. Especially when mixed with the state reek of ignorance.

By: mosch

mosch — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:22:22 -0800

Saddam Hussein's regime has opened talks with Osama bin Laden, bringing closer the threat of a terrorist attack using chemical, biological or nuclear weapons, according to US intelligence sources and Iraqi opposition officials.

So the Guardian isn't worth trusting, because they reported what US intelligence officials told them? Is that the point that Steve is trying to make? I don't get it.

By: chaz

chaz — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 14:27:11 -0800

Not to join the pile-on, but I also hate this moral equivacy bullshit. Some poor guy's head is cut off in Iraq, and people say yeah well what about America? Then America tortures, rapes, and kills a bunch of prisoners, and people are all like "well what about Saddam". It's so lame.

By: emf

emf — Wed, 23 Jun 2004 22:56:56 -0800

A US soldier has told of being bashed by fellow guards while posing as a prisoner at Guantanamo Bay. (scroll down)

By: Goofyy

Goofyy — Thu, 24 Jun 2004 06:00:24 -0800

emf: What are you trying to link? I see nothing relating to what you wrote.

By: emf

emf — Thu, 24 Jun 2004 21:32:00 -0800

Sorry, it worked when I posted it. Wayback doesn't help, either. It wasn't just text - there was video of said US soldier on the TV news. Strange.

By: emf

emf — Thu, 24 Jun 2004 22:19:52 -0800

From here. US SECRET MEMOS DETAIL TORTURE METHODS The White House has released more than a dozen formerly secret memos to show that limits were set on the treatment of detainees at Guantanamo Bay. But one American soldier, formerly based at Guantanamo Bay, has told how he was bashed by fellow guards while posing as a prisoner. Specialist Sean Baker says he was asked to pose as an uncooperative detainee. Dressed in an orange jumpsuit, he lay immobile under a bed. The military police then sent to retrieve him mistook him for a real inmate. Specialist Baker says they bashed and choked him. SPECIALIST SEAN BAKER, 438TH MILITARY POLICE UNIT: The individual that was behind me slammed my head against the steel floor a few times, several times, and split my head over the top of my right eye. The beating stopped when Sean Baker was able to alert his attackers to his real identity. Medical records show he suffered a traumatic brain injury and ongoing seizures. A criminal investigation is under way. SPECIALIST SEAN BAKER: I'm going to say it, they used excessive force on me. I don't know if they had ever done that before, but I just know what I think and it was excessive. Specialist Baker's account contradicts memos released today by the White House.