Crazy Dune Ramblings
June 28, 2004 10:23 PM Subscribe
While others are busy writing fan fiction about Dune, it’s nice to see that someone has discovered the TRUTH.
I must not laugh. Laughter is the mindkiller. Laughter is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my laughter. I will permit it to pass over and through me. And when it is gone I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the laughter has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
posted by eddydamascene at 10:34 PM on June 28, 2004
posted by eddydamascene at 10:34 PM on June 28, 2004
I will laugh at my laughter.
When you reach the end, you are ready to begin...
posted by andreaazure at 10:35 PM on June 28, 2004
When you reach the end, you are ready to begin...
posted by andreaazure at 10:35 PM on June 28, 2004
Paul, whilst being tested, says, "I must overcome my fear" just like YODA tells Luke he must do, in 'Starwars'
oh well, that seals it. this guy is dead-on!
posted by bob sarabia at 10:44 PM on June 28, 2004
oh well, that seals it. this guy is dead-on!
posted by bob sarabia at 10:44 PM on June 28, 2004
Okay colour me bravely stupid for this, But wasn't dune really a retelling of "Laurence of Arabia'?
posted by Elim at 10:45 PM on June 28, 2004
posted by Elim at 10:45 PM on June 28, 2004
wasn't dune really a retelling of "Laurence of Arabia'
Um... possibly, although I can't speak to the dates they were written/published, and I highly doubt that LofA was the first "going native" story ever. It's a strong archetype, and one I like a lot. But I'm not sure Lawrence was the first (even if he was a historical figure).
As one of my school teachers used to say: that would be a good subject for you to write a paper on.
( aka: I don't know :D )
posted by scarabic at 12:10 AM on June 29, 2004
Um... possibly, although I can't speak to the dates they were written/published, and I highly doubt that LofA was the first "going native" story ever. It's a strong archetype, and one I like a lot. But I'm not sure Lawrence was the first (even if he was a historical figure).
As one of my school teachers used to say: that would be a good subject for you to write a paper on.
( aka: I don't know :D )
posted by scarabic at 12:10 AM on June 29, 2004
From the same site: Star Wars - Fact NOT Fiction
No comment necessary.
posted by Down10 at 12:32 AM on June 29, 2004
No comment necessary.
posted by Down10 at 12:32 AM on June 29, 2004
Ugh, that Brian Herbert interview reminded me how fantastically horrible the Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson Dune books are. They are among the worst novels I've read.
Such a disappointment.
posted by funkbrain at 1:01 AM on June 29, 2004
Such a disappointment.
posted by funkbrain at 1:01 AM on June 29, 2004
The basic plot of the film is straight out of the pages containing the Prophecies, in the Bible Old Testament Book of the Prophet Isaiah; and also those from the New Testament Books of John and Revelation/Apocalypse Prophecies...
Ah, Revelation: is there any crazy belief it can't be used to support?
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 3:43 AM on June 29, 2004
Ah, Revelation: is there any crazy belief it can't be used to support?
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 3:43 AM on June 29, 2004
With all those bold tags it must be true!
posted by robocop is bleeding at 4:49 AM on June 29, 2004
posted by robocop is bleeding at 4:49 AM on June 29, 2004
H.M. GOVERNMENT +HEALTH WARNING+ Breaking The 12 (10+2) COMMANDments SERIOUSLY damages YOUR health
posted by swordfishtrombones at 5:58 AM on June 29, 2004
posted by swordfishtrombones at 5:58 AM on June 29, 2004
duhh... Is it news that Star Wars might have borrowed from earlier sources? Is it news that your basic desert scenario is going to have lots in common with your next basic desert scenario? As for the rest, eddydamascene I'm with you all the way. You too PST.
posted by dharmamaya at 6:06 AM on June 29, 2004
posted by dharmamaya at 6:06 AM on June 29, 2004
Ugh, that Brian Herbert interview reminded me how fantastically horrible the Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson Dune books are. They are among the worst novels I've read.
Oh, hell - everything after Dune itself is crap, IMHO. All of the great ideas and the interesting characters are in the first book, the other books just drive back and forth over those ideas and characters until they're utterly lifeless and barely recognizable. That the novels by the son are even worse is hardly surprising...
posted by JollyWanker at 8:32 AM on June 29, 2004
Oh, hell - everything after Dune itself is crap, IMHO. All of the great ideas and the interesting characters are in the first book, the other books just drive back and forth over those ideas and characters until they're utterly lifeless and barely recognizable. That the novels by the son are even worse is hardly surprising...
posted by JollyWanker at 8:32 AM on June 29, 2004
Fear is the mind-killer, it is the little-death that leads to total obliteration.
I thought orgasm was the "little death"....or is that sneezing? Either way, they both feel good...
posted by dejah420 at 8:59 AM on June 29, 2004
I thought orgasm was the "little death"....or is that sneezing? Either way, they both feel good...
posted by dejah420 at 8:59 AM on June 29, 2004
funkbrain, I'm totally with you. My younger brother gave me the three "House..." prequels for xmas last year. I just threw them in the trash this past weekend (cleaning house, discarding old stuff) because I couldn't bear to donate them... because I was afraid other people might read them. That would be very bad.
JW, I don't totally agree about the rest of the Frank Herbert books... at least the guy had an entertaining, multilayered, LITERATE literary style and there was depth and breadth to the stories and characters. I liked Chapterhouse a lot.
These BH/KA books read like 6th-grader fanfics. And not good ones either. I've never read any of Kevin Anderson's other stuff, is it any good? I fear to now...
Where's Alan Dean Foster when you need him? :D
posted by zoogleplex at 10:06 AM on June 29, 2004
JW, I don't totally agree about the rest of the Frank Herbert books... at least the guy had an entertaining, multilayered, LITERATE literary style and there was depth and breadth to the stories and characters. I liked Chapterhouse a lot.
These BH/KA books read like 6th-grader fanfics. And not good ones either. I've never read any of Kevin Anderson's other stuff, is it any good? I fear to now...
Where's Alan Dean Foster when you need him? :D
posted by zoogleplex at 10:06 AM on June 29, 2004
Star Wars was openly based on the archetypal journey described in Joseph Campbell's "Hero With A Thousand Faces." Dune, like Star Wars, is a sort of science-fiction myth reworking of mythical scenarios as old as the hills: a young man robbed of his noble heritage who is also the key to the salvation of a land that was once a great place but has since fallen to evil rule. Dune's use of Christian, Jewish, and other mythologies is pretty overt. It's not like Herbert based his stories on the new testament so much as he based them on the same ancient archetypal themes that the new testament, like many other religious stories, make use of. I don't think he ever made any effort to hide this...in fact, it's been years since I read the books, but it seems to me that there were even passages in which the characters came close to overtly discussing the fact that this was going on.
So, yes, there is a connection, and no, announcing it is not profound or even very interesting. You can probably uncover more from interviews with Herbert than you can from that website.
posted by bingo at 10:14 AM on June 29, 2004
So, yes, there is a connection, and no, announcing it is not profound or even very interesting. You can probably uncover more from interviews with Herbert than you can from that website.
posted by bingo at 10:14 AM on June 29, 2004
they read like 6th grader material because that is what they are -- Kevin Anderson is pretty much the definition of "crap artist" -- anyone who would write a book with "Young Jedi" in the title deserves harsh and swift retribution
I dunno about the comment about the later Dune books being crapola though -- God Emperor was great, although it read more like a philosophical tract than anything
I think I read Herbert mainly for the chapter introduction quotes though. Great examples of his wisdom can be found at Cave of Birds
perfect example for our times:
"When the means of great violence are widespread, nothing is more dangerous to the powerful than that they create outrage and injustice, for outrage and injustice will certainly ignite retaliation in kind."
posted by badzen at 10:36 AM on June 29, 2004
I dunno about the comment about the later Dune books being crapola though -- God Emperor was great, although it read more like a philosophical tract than anything
I think I read Herbert mainly for the chapter introduction quotes though. Great examples of his wisdom can be found at Cave of Birds
perfect example for our times:
"When the means of great violence are widespread, nothing is more dangerous to the powerful than that they create outrage and injustice, for outrage and injustice will certainly ignite retaliation in kind."
posted by badzen at 10:36 AM on June 29, 2004
I agree with badzen on God Emperor: some great ideas in that book. I would also agree with JollyWanker, however, that none of the sequels come close to touching the original. Dune is the rare science fiction novel that manages to transcend its genre.
posted by mr_roboto at 2:57 PM on June 29, 2004
posted by mr_roboto at 2:57 PM on June 29, 2004
I profoundly disagree.
I think the whole point of the Dune series isn't even realized until you get to Chapterhouse.
If you just read Dune, you're missing the whole point. The story is great, epic, but Herbert was actually saying something. Something really important, I think. Messiahs always fail us. If you stop at Dune you miss the point. Paul failed. He couldn't stop the Jihad that swirled around him. He was too weak to take the Golden Path, basically dooming his son Leto to take it for him. It's all very tragic, really.
Granted, it took him 6 books to fully say what he was trying to say. But that doesn't negate the value of his message.
posted by geekhorde at 8:09 PM on June 29, 2004
I think the whole point of the Dune series isn't even realized until you get to Chapterhouse.
If you just read Dune, you're missing the whole point. The story is great, epic, but Herbert was actually saying something. Something really important, I think. Messiahs always fail us. If you stop at Dune you miss the point. Paul failed. He couldn't stop the Jihad that swirled around him. He was too weak to take the Golden Path, basically dooming his son Leto to take it for him. It's all very tragic, really.
Granted, it took him 6 books to fully say what he was trying to say. But that doesn't negate the value of his message.
posted by geekhorde at 8:09 PM on June 29, 2004
Basically, Dune itself was a trick. Herbert lured his audience in with this wonderful epic about a hero that anyone would fall in love with.
And then he destroyed him. To make a point about heroes and their fallibility.
posted by geekhorde at 8:11 PM on June 29, 2004
And then he destroyed him. To make a point about heroes and their fallibility.
posted by geekhorde at 8:11 PM on June 29, 2004
Good call geekhorde. Couldn't have said it better.
All heroes need to die, whether gloriously or in some disgrace. It's what real heroes do. Cf. Elric. Also Bearclaw. :)
posted by zoogleplex at 9:58 AM on June 30, 2004
All heroes need to die, whether gloriously or in some disgrace. It's what real heroes do. Cf. Elric. Also Bearclaw. :)
posted by zoogleplex at 9:58 AM on June 30, 2004
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