Comments on: Moral Clarity

Moral Clarity

nofundy — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 06:50:45 -0800

The Moral Values Party With thousands of Republicans set to invade the city this summer, high-priced escorts and strippers are preparing for one grand old party. Agencies are flying in extra call girls from around the globe to meet the expected demand during the Aug. 30-Sept. 2 gathering at Madison Square Garden. "We have girls from London, Seattle, California, all coming in for that week," said a madam at a Manhattan escort service. "It's the week everyone wants to work." "It's going to be big," agreed one operator at a midtown escort service.

Now that's what I call moral clarity!!

By: the fire you left me

the fire you left me — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 06:52:28 -0800

"It's going to be big," agreed one operator at a midtown escort service. Possibly not in every case.

By: muckster

muckster — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:00:06 -0800

I suppose hypocrisy is always worth pointing out, but this isn't what we should be focussing our attention on.

By: jonson

jonson — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:01:21 -0800

I don't get it... nofundy, are you in some way biased against the Republican party or something?

By: jonmc

jonmc — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:06:55 -0800

With thousands of Republicans set to invade the city this summer, high-priced escorts and strippers are preparing for one grand old party. Well, at least they're supporting small business.

By: dash_slot-

dash_slot- — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:11:40 -0800

jonson: I think it's more likely that, like me, he is biased against the Hypocrisy Party. - legalise prostitution now!

By: CRS

CRS — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:15:55 -0800

Yeah, hate the Hypocrisy Party! Ummm. . . is there one that doesn't fit that description? And I second dash_slot's recommendation to legalize prostitution. Not that I'd benefit, since my wife would kill me if I so much as looked twice at a hooker.

By: caddis

caddis — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:16:17 -0800

Think Jimmy Swaggert in a New Orleans hotel room. . . .

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:19:09 -0800

It's the same principle that's having pro-choice and/or moderate Repubs in the most visible speaking slots--Arnold, Rudy, Pataki, Laura, even Bloomberg, etc--instead of the real leaders of the party--DeLay, Lott, Frist, Hastert, Cheney.

By: Mitheral

Mitheral — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:19:40 -0800

I don't see the big deal. A lot of people who aren't actaully in the Republican party are going to be there because of the convention. Reporters, bus boys, bus drivers, television crews, pilots, etc. Plus not everyone who is republican is a fundy.

By: soyjoy

soyjoy — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:21:39 -0800

"It's going to be big" While this could be the punchline to many jokes related to this (rather old) story, I like to think that it's what nofundy said when asked to describe how much front-page space his FPP was going to take up.

By: chicobangs

chicobangs — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:23:40 -0800

I'd rather not think about Jimmy Swaggart, or any other Republican or televangelist, regardless of their alleged gender, doing anything in a New Orleans hotel room with a hooker, thanks. Even playing Go Fish. With all their clothes on. Ew. You know, of course hookers are going to be popular with the Republicans. Talk about the free-market paradigm in action. Trickle-down economics in its purest fuckin' form, baby. Fuck 'em, all of 'em, and I mean that in the best possible New York way. Fuck 'em and pay 'em. They got children not being left behind that are, well, being left behind. Hope these hookers get more business than they can handle. And may someone get videotaped doing something against their public moral stance. (Someone keep an eye on Rob Lowe.)

By: loquax

loquax — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:24:16 -0800

Such a cheap and simple-minded swipe. Why is this news, or of metafilter calibre? A NY Daily link and a zinger? Thanks nofundy. Coming up next, some Democrats cheat on their taxes and beat their kids!

By: dhoyt

dhoyt — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:25:48 -0800

Whoa, there's a Hypocrisy Party?? d00d, up until now I just assumed politicians of all political parties were hypocritical. I must be living in a dream world! Thanks for the insights on this issue, Metafilter. This post makes us all look like geniuses. LOLOLOL1111

By: jonmc

jonmc — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:29:12 -0800

Whoa, there's a Hypocrisy Party?? Yes, Tonight at 7. Bring dip.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:35:11 -0800

Whoa, there's a Hypocrisy Party?? "I'm making my own party! With blackjack! And hookers! In fact, forget the blackjack!"

By: dash_slot-

dash_slot- — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:35:48 -0800

dhoyt - i don't disagree with you. I haven't singled out a particular party for the soubriquet of Hypocrisy Party. They're all hypocrites if they expound and legislate on subjects or 'issues' which infringe liberty, but then act as if those laws don't apply to them. Well, you can either change the laws or behaviour. Which is most consistent with personal liberty, in your view?

By: nofundy

nofundy — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:36:07 -0800

I like to think that it's what nofundy said when asked to describe how much front-page space his FPP was going to take up. Good one! :-) Legalize prostitution now!! A lot of people who aren't actaully in the Republican party are going to be there because of the convention. Reporters, bus boys, bus drivers, television crews, pilots, etc. Yeah, that's the ticket! Busboys paying $1,000 for an hour of sex. That works! Uh huh. All "christian" fundamentalists ought to know this truth about their "leadership." Don't you agree? An informed voter is accepted as vital to a healthy democracy.

By: chicobangs

chicobangs — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:44:15 -0800

[pic caption:] Dancers like this one expect to be very busy during the GOP's convention. How "like this one" are the busy dancers going to be? Her posture is terrible. Perhaps she has no moral backbone. Is that what they mean? (I won't even go into the fact that strippers and hookers are not the same group. But the Daily News never was terribly clear on that distinction.)

By: mischief

mischief — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:50:05 -0800

That's like the week when the Baptist Convention is in Atlanta. Fulton and Dekalb counties sell more stripping licenses in the month leading up to it than any other month of the year. ... and don't even TRY to get an appointment at an oriental spa!

By: dhoyt

dhoyt — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:50:06 -0800

Though I realize this equation may not be sufficiently simplistic or cartoonish enough for your tastes, nofundy, here it is: All Republicans ? "Christian fundamentalists" I always thought the Bush crowd had a monopoly on dopey "with-us-or-against-us" worldviews, but you certainly give them a run for their money every time you post.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:50:38 -0800

oops, forgot Ralph Reed above--now this is moral clarity, no? When Ralph Reed was the boyish director of the Christian Coalition, he made opposition to gambling a major plank in his "family values" agenda, calling gambling "a cancer on the American body politic" that was "stealing food from the mouths of children." But now, a broad federal investigation into lobbying abuses connected to gambling on Indian reservations has unearthed evidence that Reed has been surreptitiously working for an Indian tribe with a large casino it sought to protect--and that Reed was paid with funds laundered through two firms to try to keep his lucrative involvement secret... Reed is in charge of Bush's 2004 election campaign in the Southeast, including Florida. In 2000, he was paid almost $3.7 million for helping Bush.

By: lodurr

lodurr — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:52:41 -0800

It's long been regarded as a truism among sex workers that conservatives are kinkier than liberals. There's probably a Foucault connection in there somewhere, but I don't feel like working for it this morning...

By: Space Coyote

Space Coyote — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:57:05 -0800

All Republicans ? "Christian fundamentalists" OK, even assuming that the Christian fundies are completely excluded from the potential customers of these strippers and hookers (Hah), what would they think of the moral fibre of their chosen political party?

By: shoepal

shoepal — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:57:11 -0800

It's a trap!

By: hama7

hama7 — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:58:56 -0800

The perversions of Michel Foucault - Roger Kimball

By: jonmc

jonmc — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 07:59:03 -0800

It's long been regarded as a truism among sex workers that conservatives are kinkier than liberals. What about libertarians? I'd ask about communists and Green Party people, but I think we all realize that they have no sex at all.

By: PenDevil

PenDevil — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:02:51 -0800

Well the Republican's aint alone here, plenty goes on at the DNC as well : For hookers, convention's time to lay low from the Boston Herald (06/20/2004).

By: chicobangs

chicobangs — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:03:52 -0800

Oh, jon. Greens have awesome sex. (You didn't know? I thought you were invited to that swingin' party down the line.) They just don't pay for it. And they certainly don't make these sweeping pronouncements about how morally this or that it is, so it doesn't make the front page like when righties get caught getting their freak on. (Not paying for sex sometimes makes it better. Not always, but sometimes.)

By: mikeh

mikeh — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:04:43 -0800

Only for the good of the party, comrade jonmc.

By: jonmc

jonmc — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:05:09 -0800

Greens have awesome sex. Giving off spores like mold or splitting in half like an amoeba dosen't count, chico.

By: lodurr

lodurr — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:09:40 -0800

What about libertarians? Well, I did use lower-case letters for a reason... But if you mean "L"ibertarians, I think they could safely be grouped with the commies and the greens. Of course, I'm not saying that these folks don't have sex, or even that they don't use hookers or watch strippers. I'm just saying that I'm told they're not (usually) nearly as kinky about it. Of course, every now and then, you *do* get a Rob Lowe Dem, who prefers to play "casting couch" with two underage girls in a hotel room... BTW, hama7, a snarky anti-hagiography on Foucault wasn't really the connection I was looking for. I was thinking more along the lines of the idea that hyper-sexualization is a byproduct of strict morality.... quite happy to have someone who knows more about Foucault expand and correct...

By: Happydaz

Happydaz — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:10:21 -0800

Thanks shoepal, but could you give some warning when a link's going to have sound? I mean, I love Ackbar, but my office doesn't :-(. These call girls may be good for our nation. After all, I remain convinced we'd have far fewer problems if Cheney just got laid more regularly.

By: sic

sic — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:13:45 -0800

Sorry this is a pretty lame FPP, provoking even lamer responses, such as, "d00d, LOLOLOL1111". Man, isn't this hacker speak or text messaging "joke" deader than Reagan already? At least soyjoy's response was clever.

By: lodurr

lodurr — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:14:04 -0800

...if Cheney just got laid more regularly. Dude, do you think his heart could take it? Oh, wait, I get it...

By: chicobangs

chicobangs — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:17:22 -0800

Giving off spores like mold or splitting in half like an amoeba dosen't count, chico. Sounds like someone has more experience with the green sex than they're letting on...

By: matteo

matteo — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:18:57 -0800

if buying women's bodies like they're ground meat doesn't get your rocks off, then you hate America

By: 2sheets

2sheets — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:20:17 -0800

I'd like to point out that this is the first convention since the proliferation of the camera phone. New Yorkers, you know what to do.

By: Space Coyote

Space Coyote — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:22:06 -0800

Green party sex is egalitarian, Republican sex needs the power element of hiring a hooker. They just wouldn't enjoy doing it with each other as much.

By: HTuttle

HTuttle — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:22:41 -0800

And every Democrat is a commie dictator! Makes as much sense as your bigoted tripe rantings, but then this is MetaLefty.

By: dhoyt

dhoyt — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:29:10 -0800

what would they think of the moral fibre of their chosen political party? If you're asking me to get inside the mind of a Christian fundamentalist you are seriously barking up the wrong tree ;) I can only imagine they look the other way when certain indiscretions take place, just as Kennedy's & Clinton's (two devoutly religious men) associates did.

By: rough ashlar

rough ashlar — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:41:04 -0800

"L"ibertarians, I think they could safely be grouped with the commies and the greens. Yes, they are EVIL as they what to see the government size shrink. Unlike the Republicans.

By: quonsar

quonsar — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:46:12 -0800

hey, taking dictation from the Lord, playing a major role in the apocolypse, staying the course, these things are all hard work and righteous men are entitled to thier recreations. render unto the pimpdaddy that which is his due!

By: thomcatspike

thomcatspike — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:50:28 -0800

- legalise prostitution now! Just go on a date with Dallas chic.

By: dhoyt

dhoyt — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:52:38 -0800

Man, isn't this hacker speak or text messaging "joke" deader than Reagan already? I suppose that joke's got a few grey hairs, but the hackneyed "If ______, then you must hate America" zinger is sure looking tired, too.

By: octobersurprise

octobersurprise — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 08:59:54 -0800

The perversions of Michel Foucault - Roger Kimball Call me when someone finds that Paris Hilton/Hilton Kramer video. That's what I really want to see.

By: chicobangs

chicobangs — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:05:35 -0800

Hold on. Paris Hilton and Kramer? Whoa.

By: soyjoy

soyjoy — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:16:45 -0800

*does stumbling doubletake at the thought*

By: pardonyou?

pardonyou? — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:17:46 -0800

There will be over 2,500 delegates at the convention. What's the tipping point for a charge of hypocricy against an entire political party? One delegate? 100? 1,000? Do you know how many are expected to patronize an escort? Do you know how many additional escorts are being brought in? And the delegates are only a small fraction of the convention influx -- the convention is expected to bring over 50,000 people to New York, including 15,000 members of the media. Do you know how much the expected increase in prostitution will be attributable to the GOP "leadership," and how much to people who are there for some other reason? My point is that hypocricy is generally a solo sport, played by people on all sides. If a fundamental, moralizing Republican patronizes a prostitute, he's a hypocrite. That doesn't make the Republican party "The Hypocricy Party." For every one hypocrite you find, I'm fairly confident there will be 10 delegates with a stick up their ass who retreat to their hotel rooms to read the Gideon Bible every night, and would be horrified, just horrified! by the actions of their colleague. (Oh, and legalize prostitution now! Well, not necessarily now, I mean, I'm sure I can wait a reasonable time. Let's say ... in the next six months? Is that do-able? OK, it's settled, then: Legalize prostitution in the next six months!)

By: darukaru

darukaru — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:35:43 -0800

It's funny how sex lives only matter when it's the people you don't like, innit? More fucking for everyone, I say.

By: LairBob

LairBob — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:39:10 -0800

Just for the record, Foucault had a lot more to say than the distracting hoo-hah of "sexuality and power" that now serves as a smokescreen around his more legitimate thought. Many more objective students of philosophy feel that he kind of disappeared through the looking-glass toward the end of his career, as he became more and more obsessed with making what are really some pretty obvious, naive points. (Which folks like de Sade had already made much earlier.) It's just too bad, because it makes it so much easier for people like that Kimball guy to just get distracted by the silly stuff, and make absolutely no mention of how he did have an important impact. To me--and many other people--Foucault's real contribution to modern thought was his early analysis of the "discourse"--the politics behind who gets to actually write the historical record of a time. His earlier academic period focused on what he called an "archeology of knowledge", where he used documents that weren't part of the "official" historical narrative, like tax rolls, personal letters and other items to show that in almost all historical periods, there is an important debate around core issues that eventually gets hidden by the winning side. We all know it's a cliche that "history gets written by the winners", but a lot of historical study until recently just kind of accepted that, and portrayed history as much more continuous, unified set of ideas than it really was. Foucault did a lot of concrete, document-based work to show exactly how that process took place, and exposed a lot of the vital, and interesting historical detail that had been lost to "History". He was a big part in the establishment of our modern, more complete approach to history. Maybe the best example of that approach isn't even his own writing, but in the work of someone like Elaine Pagels (especially in her books like The Gnostic Gospels. She shows how the early Christian church was much more fragmented and divided than it's now depicted as being, and uses a close reading of original documents like the Nag Hammadi scrolls to explore that diversity, and how it was intentionally erased from the "official" record of the early church. (It's also visible in a very distilled form right now, in the struggle now over Fahrenheit 9/11, and whether the film can be advertised over TV, etc.) It's in driving that perspective, and in hammering home to the larger academic community how much they were actually missing, that Foucault made a real, and enduring, contribution. The rest of the stuff is a legitimate criticism of him as a person, but it doesn't take away from the effect he did have.

By: LairBob

LairBob — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:42:21 -0800

(Again, not saying Foucault invented that approach--just that he was a big part of driving it home, and making it an essential part of modern historical analysis.)

By: clevershark

clevershark — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:48:43 -0800

It's nice to see that someone in New York will want the Republicans to come. New Yorkers sure as hell don't.

By: Postroad

Postroad — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 09:59:05 -0800

This is why I plan to vote Democrat: they got no balls

By: nofundy

nofundy — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:11:54 -0800

It's funny how sex lives only matter when it's the people you don't like, innit? More f*cking for everyone, I say. posted by darukaru at 9:35 AM PST on June 30 Especially Dick Cheney. Go f*ck yourself Dick!! someone in New York will want the Republicans to come. Isnt' that what a prostitute gets paid for? So s/he should want the customer to ... What a fun thread!

By: geekyguy

geekyguy — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 10:37:00 -0800

MetaFilter: The Hypocrisy Party!

By: trondant

trondant — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 12:54:39 -0800

These Republicans are treating objects like women!

By: soulhuntre

soulhuntre — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 13:57:36 -0800

"It's nice to see that someone in New York will want the Republicans to come. New Yorkers sure as hell don't." It might be a shock to some, especially on the left, but "New Yorkers" actually have differing opinions from each other. I know, it sort of rocks the whole "us vs. the evil greedy capitalists" thing but it's true anyway. Oh, while we are at it... not all Republicans would be hypocritical to use a prostitute. hell, most of the Republicans I know aren't even religeously motivated in their political stance. I say have at it boys - and if the use of prostitutes DOES drive some of the religeous wingnuts out of the GOP thats all the better.

By: Space Coyote

Space Coyote — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 14:00:57 -0800

It might be a shock to some, especially on the left, but "New Yorkers" actually have differing opinions from each other. I know, it sort of rocks the whole "us vs. the evil greedy capitalists" thing but it's true anyway. Yankees fans give the Bronx cheer to Cheney..

By: jonmc

jonmc — Wed, 30 Jun 2004 16:53:40 -0800

Yankees fans give the Bronx cheer to Cheney Those are Yankee fans Space Coyote, we're talking about the non-mentally-imapired here.

By: Space Coyote

Space Coyote — Thu, 01 Jul 2004 00:06:59 -0800

I think a good uniting gesture would be for Cheney to appear at Fenway and get booed there too. Then Sox fans and Yankees fans will realize they're not so different after all.

By: lodurr

lodurr — Thu, 01 Jul 2004 02:16:13 -0800

Yeh, but then the universe might implode, wot?

By: soyjoy

soyjoy — Thu, 01 Jul 2004 06:55:39 -0800

What a fun thread! Yeah, if you like it so much you should probably thank the person who posted... waitaminit...!

By: psmealey

psmealey — Thu, 01 Jul 2004 07:52:51 -0800

We have girls from London, Seattle, California... Is Seattle particularly well-known for its escorts and strippers? Damn, I must've missed out on that in the 7 years I spent out there!

By: matteo

matteo — Thu, 01 Jul 2004 10:39:52 -0800

but the hackneyed "If ______, then you must hate America" zinger is sure looking tired, too. I suggest you alert the RNC, then. it's all they talk about, incessantly