Comments on: Leak me a veep

Leak me a veep

moonbird — Mon, 05 Jul 2004 23:47:56 -0800

Veepfilter: The well-kept secret about Kerry's running mate might just have broken... on an aviation message board, of all places.

By: inksyndicate

inksyndicate — Mon, 05 Jul 2004 23:56:32 -0800

Thank goodness, no nightmares tonight about waking up to find Dick Gephardt's mug on TV.

By: Kwantsar

Kwantsar — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 00:02:05 -0800

John Kerry has a 757? I thought he was a man of the people!

By: msacheson

msacheson — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 00:05:36 -0800

nice scoop, moonbird. How'd you find it?

By: inksyndicate

inksyndicate — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 00:08:43 -0800

Whaddya want, Jerry Brown? I don't remember Kerry ever claiming to be an impoverished, jet-less kind of dude.

By: wsg

wsg — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 00:22:40 -0800

That's a good ticket. We knew it had to be a southerner to counter Kerry's northerness (northernosity?). Edwards balances Kerry well. It's looking good. I don't care what plane he's in.

By: Silune

Silune — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 00:25:49 -0800

The Post says otherwise....

By: interrobang

interrobang — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 00:28:32 -0800

Gephardt is the kiss of death. If Kerry chooses him, he practically deserves to lose. Please, please let the [tabloid] be wrong.

By: wsg

wsg — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 00:33:36 -0800

Please, not Gephardt!

By: delmoi

delmoi — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 00:36:28 -0800

I really do hope it's Edwards. I mean, between the two, Jesus. Edwards is just a blindingly better choice. I was a dean backer, myself, but edwards just has so much charm. Women will fall over themselves to vote for him.

By: trharlan

trharlan — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 00:37:15 -0800

Union guy, rust belt states at stake, unsurprising. Still, I'll believe it when I see it.

By: Keyser Soze

Keyser Soze — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 00:41:57 -0800

me too.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 00:42:22 -0800

Why is Geppy even in consideration, much less in the top two? Certainly vilskank, or just about anyone else would be better then geppy. How can someone that blond be expected to be taken seriously by the electorate? (Never liked vilsack, As an Iowan, I think he's a tool. Still, I'd like ot seem him in the VP slot, simply because Iowa rocks. It's much nicer then the rest of the country. We deserve to rule over the rest of you. We have the caucuses, but that's not nearly enough. BOW DOWN TO YOUR IWOA OVERLOARDS) /very drunk

By: tonelesscereal

tonelesscereal — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 01:07:54 -0800

If nothing else we could finally get rid of Vilsack ;)

By: effugas

effugas — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 01:11:09 -0800

delmoi-- "at least drunks say funny shit."

By: 4easypayments

4easypayments — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 01:13:59 -0800

If Kerry has done any focus groups at all on this, he would would have to know that Gephardt makes people feel profoundly creeped out. Right?

By: RavinDave

RavinDave — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 01:26:35 -0800

When they "find" OBL at the end of October (I have Friday, Oct 29 15:30 hours Central in the office pool), none of this will matter.

By: Joey Michaels

Joey Michaels — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 01:55:13 -0800

Women will fall over themselves to vote for him. Yes sir, because all them women care about when they cast their vote is how good looking the VP is. ;)

By: Civil_Disobedient

Civil_Disobedient — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 02:05:23 -0800

JM - You really should see how the ladies swoon over the guy. It's almost irritating, except he has this aura of "nice" around him that's hard to resist. Honestly, the guy looks like a cookie-cutter Young Republican, with the neat side-swipe hair-do, toothy yet honest perfect-teeth smile... he looks like he hasn't missed Sunday church ever, yet he's a Dem. Kerry could do a lot worse (hell, just look at the two of them together, for comparison).

By: stavrosthewonderchicken

stavrosthewonderchicken — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 02:12:18 -0800

I really do hope this is true. Not, of course, that the Big Silly Democrats are better in any real sense than the Evil Dumb Republicans. [/self-parody]

By: lodurr

lodurr — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 03:11:54 -0800

... he has this aura of "nice" around him that's hard to resist ... Which is really ironic, considering that he's made a small personal fortune by being "not nice" -- but with a smile... If it is Edwards, I know how I'd attack: I'd pull out every lawyer joke in the book, and look for the nastiest, most resonant. Then I'd put out a set of 15x2 second donuts, with a different joke in every 15 second bit. They'd go something like this:

VO/on screen: What do you call 10,000 lawyers chained together at the bottom of the ocean? [pause] VO/on screen: A good start. on screen: John Edwards...TRIAL LAWYER VO/on screen: Vote Bush-Cheney...Take back America from the Trial Lawyers.

... Or, at least, that's what I think a Red spinmeister would think of. I don't have any qualms about revealing that because I am pretty convinced of two things:

1 - Edwards could handle it. He'd just come back with some worse lawyer jokes, then look very sincerely at some person standing close to the camera (so it's not so obvious that he's playing to the lens) and explain that, yes, sometimes trial lawyers get over-zealous. But they play an important role, and for his part...yada. 2 - At the end of the day, American's love trial lawyers. They love the big twin dreams of revenge and wealth through Justice, and the Trial Lawyer is the hero of that story.

On Prev: Then again, at the end of the day, when has the NYP ever been wrong?

By: CunningLinguist

CunningLinguist — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 03:26:18 -0800

All I can say is I have never before seen an exclusive story on the front page of any paper without a byline. Something's wrong there. Love the possibility that the news leaked from an airline hanger. Moonbird, how *did* you find that?

By: RavinDave

RavinDave — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 03:41:44 -0800

I keep having the George Bush flashbacks (the "wimp", not the "chimp") back to when he tried to fabricate a media event and create such deep public anticipation in his veep choice. He gestured with an exaggerated flurry, intoned the name: "Dan Quayle" and broke out in flop sweat at the puzzled silence of the reporters trying to assay if it was a gag or not. His hand actually hung in the air as if he was trying to grasp why there wasn't thunderous (or even polite) applause. If, in a like fashion, Kerrey chooses a knob like Gephardt after teasing the public, I will disclaim all further interest in his campaign.

By: RavinDave

RavinDave — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 04:00:54 -0800

"NY Post" (found on atrios's blog). *sob*

By: Silune

Silune — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 04:05:52 -0800

Airliners.net - PIT Spotters: John Kerry's Plane Being Re-painted Democratic Underground - VP/Seven Letters -- Hmm, who could it be? Daily Kos - Kerry campaign plane repainted with Edwards logo Either way, we'll (probably) know in a couple of hours.

By: dagny

dagny — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 04:19:12 -0800

I'm for the Bush re-election, so I hope Kerry picks Edwards. All in all though, I still can't believe how weak a candidate Kerry himself is. You have one of the most controversial presidents in a lifetime, and you come up with this useless replacement? That's one of the reasons why people care so much about his veep pick; they hope another person can add at least some interest to the ticket.

By: konolia

konolia — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 04:26:26 -0800

If he has indeed picked Gephardt, I am going to spend the day laughing. Nice deep Republican laughs.

By: adampsyche

adampsyche — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 04:40:02 -0800

All I can say is I have never before seen an exclusive story on the front page of any paper without a byline. Something's wrong there. Perhaps a byline strike?

By: davidmsc

davidmsc — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 04:40:41 -0800

MSNBC and Fox News Channel both reporting Edwards is the pick, as of ~5:30 am, Mountain Time.

By: Silune

Silune — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 04:43:07 -0800

CNN calling for Edwards as well.

By: CunningLinguist

CunningLinguist — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 04:43:44 -0800

CNN just reported it was Edwards too. NYers: buy up copies of the Post - it's an instant collector's item.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 04:44:22 -0800

It's Edwards.

By: CunningLinguist

CunningLinguist — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 04:44:42 -0800

And props to Moonbird!

By: Outlawyr

Outlawyr — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 04:49:24 -0800

NYtimes agrees, it's Edwards. Here we go!

By: Outlawyr

Outlawyr — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 04:50:49 -0800

Oh, and nice scoop, moonbird. I'm very impressed.

By: davidmsc

davidmsc — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 04:51:57 -0800

Looks like we all need to start hanging out around aviation message boards, huh...?

By: dagny

dagny — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 04:52:08 -0800

I hope this gets confirmed! Here were Kerrys five criteria according to Mary Beth Cahill:

A proven leader with sound judgment on national security, economic prosperity and social justice. (Edwards is neither a proven leader nor has experience with national security)

Committed to Kerry’s issues and vision for the country. (Didn't seem too committed during the primary.)

Capable of inspiring confidence in voters from all parts of the country and all walks of life. (Sure, everybody loves an ambulance-chasing trial lawyer!)

Compatible with Kerry “on every level.” (Lots of rumours about personality conflicts between the two)

“Ready at any moment to assume the awesome responsibility of president.” (Eh.. a one-term senator?!) I hope the pick of Edwards is true, he's going to go from "cute bombshell" to bomb very quickly.

By: davidmsc

davidmsc — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:02:37 -0800

By: dagny

dagny — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:06:30 -0800

Kerry on Edwards a short while ago: "In the Senate four years, and that is the full extent of public life - no international experience, no military experience - you can imagine what the advertising is going to be next year," Mr. Kerry said of Mr. Edwards just before the Iowa caucuses, adding: "When I came back from Vietnam in 1969, I don't know if John Edwards was out of diapers then. Well, I'm sure he was out of diapers." Is this the veep flip-flop?

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:10:50 -0800

And to tack onto dagny's points: sitting senators have very slim chances of being elected President. Voters traditionally like to elect governors. So now, having two senators on the ticket...dunno how that will play in Peoria. You know, I have this c-r-a-a-azy belief that people in Peoria are going to weigh in how Bush's economy cost them their job a bit more than how influential his opponents were in the State Legislature. But what do I know, I'm not one of the apparently 75% of people on the internet with a graduate degree in political science.

By: psmealey

psmealey — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:11:33 -0800

A veritable Dewey Defeats Truman moment for the NY Post. I love it. /ot Honestly, Kerry didn't have much of a choice, did he? Gephardt had loser written all over him since at least this past winter when he didn't even show in the Iowa caucuses and Richardson brings nothing to the ticket in terms of electoral math. I don't know who else they were considering (Wes Clark?), but Edwards seemed pretty clear-cut to me. On preview, as far as having two senators on a ticket, I think it may be different this time around. The fact that W ran as a "Washington outsider" last time around, a notion so laughable at the time it gave me apoplexy, I think that less people will care about the whole insider/outsider nonsense.

By: lodurr

lodurr — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:11:52 -0800

... can't believe how weak a candidate ... one of the most controversial presidents in a lifetime You know, most of the people I associated with back in ought-zero thought the shrub was a pretty weak candidate... we were right, of course: He did lose the election, after all... Of course, the "glad he picked Edwards" bit was a troll, and most of the folks here are enough better than me to not fall for it, but what the hell. By now (8:10am ET) it's clear that the Gephardt rumor was a plant to distract attention -- or maybe to make Edwards look that much better. The truth is, Dagny, that if you put Dick Cheney and John Edwards into a debate, you'll pretty much have to create a rule that says Edwards has to use sign language in order make it an even fight. My great hope is that the Bushites remain as clueless as they have been of late, and fire Cheney right at him. That should be fun to watch.

By: lodurr

lodurr — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:14:11 -0800

“Ready at any moment to assume the awesome responsibility of president.” (Eh.. a one-term senator?!) Eh... a one-term part-time Governor? (... and not even a successful law practice to point to!)

By: CunningLinguist

CunningLinguist — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:15:16 -0800

Kennedy was a one term senator too, no?

By: davidmsc

davidmsc — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:18:19 -0800

Heh...Cheney will devour Edwards in a debate. Edwards won't stand a chance.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:20:44 -0800

You can't use naughty words on television, david.

By: davidmsc

davidmsc — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:22:28 -0800

Touche, XQUZYPHYR. I can almost picture it: Cheney snarling like an animal, Edwards whimpering and kneeling on the stage...Cheney advances and delivers the fatal blow: "Go F**K YOURSELF!" Edwards collapses in a puddle of quivering and tears.

By: CunningLinguist

CunningLinguist — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:22:54 -0800

Post website now has the front page saying Kerry Picks Gephardt next to something saying "breaking news: Kerry picks Edwards to be running mate." Someone take a screen shot.

By: psmealey

psmealey — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:23:32 -0800

Right... a gruff, monosyllabic ideologue vs. a seasoned and eloquent litigator. No chance. Cheney's too dirty what with the energy policiy meetings (executive priviledge), duck hunting with Fat Tony scalia, deferred compensation from Halliburton... there will be no VP debate this time around unless the GOP dumps Cheney from the ticket.

By: moonbird

moonbird — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:29:57 -0800

Oh, hey guys- I found it (and forgot to attribute) on this thread at Kos.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:31:12 -0800

See, the misconception here is that everyone will "hate" Edwards because "he's a trial lawyer." I didn't study politics; I went to film school. And that's why I get it. Look at the guy. Don't you see? You "hate" lawyers when Tommy Lee Jones and the crusty old Southern man is playing them. Edwards is the good guy lawyer. He's FIGHTING the angry, nasty old man. He's Keanu, and Matthew McConnahey, and Tom Cruise! You look at and listen to Edwards and you want him to win the case, save the day, and impregnate Sanda Bullock. He can HANDLE THE TRUTH! Foreigners: yes, Americans are really this dumb. This is actually how it works. American Idol? 100 million votes. Let's see that during an actual election.

By: octobersurprise

octobersurprise — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:37:06 -0800

Cheney will devour Edwards in a debate. Not if Edwards drags him into the sunlight first.

By: moonbird

moonbird — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:37:40 -0800

By: Civil_Disobedient

Civil_Disobedient — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:38:25 -0800

Edwards won't stand a chance. Edwards worked his way from poverty to millionaire going up against some of the worst kinds of scum and winning huge damages for his clients from said scum. I think Cheney will be right up his alley. Don't let that schoolboy charm fool you. The other thing is, when Edwards speaks, he doesn't have bugs crawling out of his mouth and snakes for hair, which is an advantage over Cheney.

By: mcsweetie

mcsweetie — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:40:27 -0800

By: lodurr

lodurr — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:41:51 -0800

Misconception? Yes, I agree: But a really widely held one, I'll wager. I'd bet money (which I damn near never do) that the "trial lawyer" thing was the biggest hurdle to nominating him, inside the Kerry camp. And I'd bet even more money that the Bushites will see that as his biggest weakness. And the film analogy is dead-on. Add to that the fact that Edwards knows all this stuff -- I wouldn't be surprised if he studied the films at home! This is also why the Republican right are such certifiable morons for alienating Fred Thompson. Again: Successful trial attorney, smart, could look good or tough depending on the role, good off the cuff -- but they let him slip away, back to Hollywood...

By: stavrosthewonderchicken

stavrosthewonderchicken — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:48:34 -0800

would that impress you? Perhaps not so much impress as arouse.... [I'm bad, I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.]

By: stonerose

stonerose — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:49:03 -0800

I can almost picture it: Cheney snarling like an animal, Edwards whimpering and kneeling on the stage...Cheney advances and delivers the fatal blow: "Go F**K YOURSELF!" Edwards collapses in a puddle of quivering and tears. That's from the slash/fanfic section of the Bush-Cheney '04 website. Typical GOP/BDSM, N/C. Need a Kleenex to mop yourself up, davidmsc?

By: Beansidhe

Beansidhe — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:53:15 -0800

Graham from Florida would have been a good choice. From the little I know, he seems to have credibility, and he might have been able to deliver a key state...if you presume that the voting will be honest down here.

By: Ynoxas

Ynoxas — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 05:53:33 -0800

Heh...Cheney will devour Edwards in a debate. Edwards won't stand a chance. posted by davidmsc at 7:18 AM CST on July 6 I assume this was a joke and I just didn't catch it. Cheney speaks like a caveman. How many times has Cheney spoken publicly since 2000? 4? 5? The only problem during a VP debate would be that perhaps Edwards wouldn't be able to stop laughing.

By: Outlawyr

Outlawyr — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 06:02:00 -0800

From Dailykos, "I have to admit I didn't find this on my own. I stole it from a post over on DU" Ok, what's DU? Husker Du?

By: aladfar

aladfar — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 06:02:11 -0800

I hope the pick of Edwards is true, he's going to go from "cute bombshell" to bomb very quickly. Yep. As history has proven, this will undoubtedly be the case. No way someone like that can get elected . . . can you imagine?

By: stonerose

stonerose — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 06:11:47 -0800

Outlawyr: Democratic Underground.

By: davidmsc

davidmsc — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 06:13:40 -0800

Heh heh heh. You people think that I'm damp with perspiration over the mock scene I scripted? You should look in the mirror and see YOUR reflection when imagining the debate between Cheney and Edwards. You all seem to think that Cheney is some sort of monosyllabic, mindless, robotic creature who is incapable of articulation or presentation of facts with passion. You're very, very wrong. Cheney is arguably one of the smartest, most savvy men in political life today.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 06:20:17 -0800

Hee hee... CNN's holding up the NY Post noting "now, remember, this is the same organization that owns Fox News Channel." I love the idea that of all the news outlets in the country that would have scooped Kerry's VP pick, people would believe the "sources" at the most right-wing, muckraking tabloid in America would be the most reliable.

By: dagny

dagny — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 06:21:02 -0800

Kerry quotes on Edwards before today: Kerry Attacked Edwards’ Experience. “‘I think the American people want an experienced hand at the helm of state,’ said Kerry, who has spent 19 years in the Senate compared with Edwards’ five. ‘This is not the time for on-the-job training in the White House on national security issues.’” (Mark Z. Barabak, “Diverse States May Reshape The Democratic Race Today,” Los Angeles Times, 2/3/04) Kerry Blasted Edwards’ ‘Lack Of Military And Foreign Policy Experience.’ “Kerry took aim at Edwards’s lack of military and foreign policy experience while responding to Edwards’s comment that both candidates shared similar plans to rebuild Iraq. ‘Well, I think he would like it to be that way,’ said Kerry, a decorated veteran, ‘but I think I have 35 years of experience in international security, foreign policy, and military affairs, and I think that makes an enormous difference here. I think that the world is looking for leadership that is tested and sure.’” (Raja Mishra, “Edwards And Kerry Emphasize Contrasts,” The Boston Globe, 2/23/04) Kerry Mocked Edwards’ “Ambitious” Nature After Only One Term In Elective Office. “The veteran senator also questioned the former trial lawyer’s pursuit of the presidency after less than one term in elective office. ‘And people call me ambitious?’ a Globe reporter once overheard Kerry asking an aide.” (Glen Johnson, “Once a Rival, Edwards Staying Close to Kerry,” The Boston Globe, 6/10/04) Kerry’s Stepson Voiced Concern Over Edwards’ Foreign Policy Credentials. “Kerry is likely to name a running mate within two weeks, [Chris] Heinz said, offering no inside information. ‘I was very pro-[North Carolina Sen. John] Edwards in the spring,’ he said. ‘But now I think we may need someone with stronger credentials on foreign policy.’” (Jack Kelly, “Chris Heinz On The Stump In City For Stepdad,” Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 6/17/04)

By: The Card Cheat

The Card Cheat — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 06:24:52 -0800

Cheney is arguably one of the smartest, most savvy men in political life today. Maybe. But we're talking about how he comes across on television, david. Which, as we all know, has nothing to do with how smart you are.

By: stew560

stew560 — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 06:26:19 -0800

Regardless - It's Edwards, and I think that site has it right.

By: lodurr

lodurr — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 06:26:57 -0800

Cheney is arguably one of the smartest, most savvy men in political life today. Not a new idea, of course. The popular wisdom when he was first nominated was that he would constitute "adult supervision". My response to everyone who said that: "Are you nuts?!" I suppose if you think that a chickenhawk with a history of second-guessing experienced military commanders -- whose military acumen has since been proven disastrously lacking, since he's had a chance to actually apply it -- ... I suppose if you think those things are strong indicators of intelligence and political savvy, then hey, yeh, I'm with you. Or if by "smartest, most savvy" you mean "one of the best corrupt politicians since Teapot Dome", then yeh, great, I'm there, buddy. But, seriously, man... the sky is not the same color in Dick Cheney's world as it is in mine. You may feel free to make the obvious rejoinder at your leisure. BTW: I do hope it's dawned on you that it wasn't sweat that folks imagined you wiping off...?

By: CunningLinguist

CunningLinguist — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 06:27:47 -0800

Dagny, why not just provide the link instead of cutting and pasting?

By: CunningLinguist

CunningLinguist — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 06:28:20 -0800

Oops, you did. Sorry.

By: octobersurprise

octobersurprise — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 06:29:24 -0800

davidmsc has a point. It's getting so a public servant can't tell his opponents to fuck themselves without being regarded as some kind of morlock.

By: quonsar

quonsar — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 06:45:07 -0800

smartest, most savvy men in political life people who can't distinguish "smartest" from "slickest", "savvy" from "corrupt" and "political" from "criminal" are fucking stoopit.

By: rushmc

rushmc — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 06:49:48 -0800

Well, Kerry passes his first major public decision. I would have preferred Graham, but apparently he's been out of the running for a while. Cheney will devour Edwards in a debate. Edwards won't stand a chance. LOLOL All I can say to that is, BRING IT ON!

By: Ethereal Bligh

Ethereal Bligh — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 06:56:55 -0800

Thanks NewsFilter for the Edwards selection story. I might have missed this otherwise. For those who are apparently not paying attention: A) Cheney was thought to be smart and politically savvy...until it became apparent that his influence on this administration has been almost uniformly disastrous (both in the policy and political senses) and his polling negatives are incredibly, mind-bogglingly high; B) Richardson would have brought electoral college votes to the table—yes, New Mexico doesn't count because Kerry will already win it, but he'd pick up a bunch of Hispanic votes in some other SW states and maybe, possibly, enough to swing Florida. If Kerry hadn't been ahead as much as he has been in these places, and he's doing particularly well with Hispanics anyway, he'd have selected Richardson, assuming Richardson would have accepted. He may have refused as he is looking to 08 or 12 for Pres himself, without a doubt. Anyway, it's a moot point as Kerry was going to get most of those votes anyway. C) Edwards brings some Southern votes to the table and a bunch of charisma. It's been apparent for some time that Kerry would pick Edwards or someone not being discussed that would have been a surprise. There was little chance that he would have picked Gephardt. Thank heavens. But Kerry still would have won. Bush is doing that badly, he really is. His polling is going from awful to doomed, with no relief in sight.

By: Armitage Shanks

Armitage Shanks — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 07:12:18 -0800

You all seem to think that Cheney is some sort of monosyllabic, mindless, robotic creature who is incapable of articulation or presentation of facts with passion. That's not a fair characterization. I also think he's also incapable of articulation or presentation of facts without passion. Or on a boat. Or with a goat. Or in the rain. Or on a train.

By: adampsyche

adampsyche — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 07:21:33 -0800

Thanks NewsFilter for the Edwards selection story. Given that it was posted well ahead of the announcement, I fail to see the problem.

By: jpoulos

jpoulos — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 07:28:48 -0800

Cheney will devour Edwards in a debate. Edwards won't stand a chance. Oh. Oh dear. Someone has drunk far too much koolaid.

By: MidasMulligan

MidasMulligan — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 07:39:07 -0800

Goodness ... he picked Edwards? I hadn't realized the Kerry camp was that desperate for something resembling magnetism. Those two hate each other.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 07:40:19 -0800

Oh goody, dagny! The quote game! Here we go: "John Edwards has written movingly of people who were terribly wronged, and whom he helped seek some measure of justice with great skill, determination, and genuine compassion. He shows a perceptive appreciation in these accounts for the strength of his clients' character. And, in the loving portrait of his son, Wade, and the deeply touching account of his loss, John reveals the strength of his own character and gives the reader a look beyond a political biography into the heart of a good man." -Senator John McCain. Over to you.

By: planetkyoto

planetkyoto — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 07:54:00 -0800

Dagny, remmerber these two words?: "Voodoo economics." You're kidding yourself.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 08:06:46 -0800

yay! I'm so glad he went with Edwards--i was dreading Gephardt too. Now we're set. (and Richardson absolutely refused to be veep, EB--i think he's holding out to run himself at some point) and Midas: Reagan and daddy Bush hated each other, and supposedly JFK and LBJ too.

By: octobersurprise

octobersurprise — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 08:16:54 -0800

Those two hate each other. OMG! And they are totally wearing the same blue suits, too! Very perceptive, Midas!

By: quonsar

quonsar — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 08:22:00 -0800

everything midasmulligan touches turns to stew.

By: PrinceValium

PrinceValium — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 08:28:14 -0800

Cheney will devour Edwards in a debate. That can't be good for his heart condition.

By: matteo

matteo — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 08:33:31 -0800

Cheney will devour Edwards in a debate. bah. I doubt it, but who cares, really. those who remember Lloyd Bentsen's 1988 demolition of Dan Quayle know very well that vice-presidential debates don't usually do the winner a lot of good. LBJ governed for more than a year without a VP, anyway. unless Kerry wins and then gets killed/dies/resigns Edwards is only media fodder. I doubt normal people care about VP choices very much, unless the choice turns into an Eagleton nightmare or a Quayle joke Thanks NewsFilter for the Edwards selection story. I might have missed this otherwise *snores*

By: drezdn

drezdn — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 08:55:49 -0800

For those trotting out Kerry's anti-Edwards quotes, hey Edwards isn't running for President, he's running for Vice-President; and, except in the case of the CEO presidency, the President's qualities are what really matters. I'm really glad Kerry chose Edwards. When a blog lead me to believe Gephardt was the choice (I'm looking at you Owillis) I was dismayed, it would have been such a big strategic mistake. As proof the Edwards choice was a good one, I offer this ancedote, my mom- who voted for Bush- is glad Kerry picked Edwards and plans on voting for them.

By: trharlan

trharlan — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 09:01:26 -0800

The GOP has done its homework on Edwards.

By: jmd82

jmd82 — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 09:02:35 -0800

the President's qualities are what really matters. I agree. You don't have to like the man to understand that he can get a specific job done in the end. Realziing that over letting your differences get in the way shows a lot of character (or maybe just some persuasive advisors).

By: Eekacat

Eekacat — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 09:06:16 -0800

I always thought Bush Sr. picked Quayle as assasination protection. Even people crazy enough to kill the President aren't crazy enough to want that boob as President.

By: fold_and_mutilate

fold_and_mutilate — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 09:09:05 -0800

You all seem to think that Cheney is some sort of monosyllabic, mindless, robotic creature who is incapable of articulation or presentation of facts with passion. Now now. I'm sure if we dangled a single crisp dollar bill in front of Cheney, he'd spout-sing the greedhead equivalent of the Gettysburg address. You just have to arouse his passion, don't you know.

By: fluffycreature

fluffycreature — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 09:19:14 -0800

I am thinking the debate with Edwards and Cheney will be quite interesting. The two are quite experienced and bright, with each background have a flair for tasting blood. This could be very interesting. As far as who we want in the VP position, the Repubs should keep quiet because they have a walking defribrilation machine in the role right now; add a few scandals and I think being quiet and pushing the Bush - Kerry debates would be a better strategy. McCain continues to be a disappointment.

By: kirkaracha

kirkaracha — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 09:28:41 -0800

Kerry and Edwards are both lawyers. Bush and Cheney are both crooks. When they "find" OBL at the end of October...none of this will matter.

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." - G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

By: lodurr

lodurr — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 09:44:15 -0800

The GOP has done its homework on Edwards. Good link, TRHarlan. Yes, they have; they've produced this exhaustive document that shows that Edwards is more qualified to run for VP than GW Bush was to run for President...brilliant manouver, wot?

By: pmurray63

pmurray63 — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 09:58:03 -0800

The NY Post yanked its boo-boo from its website, but you can always count on The Smoking Gun to document stupidity.

By: rushmc

rushmc — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 10:12:05 -0800

Thanks NewsFilter for the Edwards selection story. I might have missed this otherwise. Yawn. Didn't your pony used to have multiple tricks? Oh, and I'll bet you $5 that Kerry loses (or, at least, doesn't become president). Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.

By: Ethereal Bligh

Ethereal Bligh — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 10:13:31 -0800

I'll take that bet, rush. How about $20?

By: Dreama

Dreama — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 10:15:47 -0800

This will make for an interesting summer. Lurch/Breck-Girl vs. Homespun/Scary for the leadership of the free world. I want a do-over, all-around. Anybody else for a do-over?

By: trharlan

trharlan — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 10:20:17 -0800

Well, Bligh, you can get better odds on intrade, where Dubya is an 11:9 favorite.

By: sixdifferentways

sixdifferentways — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 10:20:20 -0800

Gephardt is the kiss of death. If Kerry chooses him, he practically deserves to lose. Please, please let the [tabloid] be wrong. Please, not Gephardt! I really do hope it's Edwards. I mean, between the two, Jesus. Edwards is just a blindingly better choice. I was a dean backer, myself, but edwards just has so much charm. Women will fall over themselves to vote for him I don't really get the Edwards thing. He's good-looking and well-spoken - but seems to lack much depth and experience. As for a "Southern strategy" - does anyone really expect the Dems to win anywhere in the South? Maybe NC with Edwards on the ticket, maybe WV . . . but neither have enough electoral votes to worry about. Florida is up for grabs, but isn't really considered a "typical" Southern state - and I don't think Edwards is a big help there (Floridian Democrats tending to be minorities or Northern transplants who will vote Dem pretty much no matter what.) Don't forget - this election comes down to about 5 borderline states. It doesn't really matter who is popular nationally. Gephardt is a yawn, but he's huge with unions. The only borderline states that matter - Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, and long-shot Missouri - are all heavy union states for the Dems. (Along with Florida - but the Dems don't need Florida if they can take Ohio.)

By: Space Coyote

Space Coyote — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 10:46:45 -0800

If he has indeed picked Gephardt, I am going to spend the day laughing. Nice deep Republican laughs. I'm hearing lots of little, frightened, republican squeaks today. Hee.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 10:50:41 -0800

Us northerners like Edwards--he has that Clintonesque charm and charisma (something Kerry lacks, and certainly something Bush and Cheney lack). I just read somewhere that Kerry was the best product, and now we've gotten the best salesman (Edwards) to push that product. And Edward's wife is a sweetheart too--no Tipper there.

By: IshmaelGraves

IshmaelGraves — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:04:46 -0800

As for a "Southern strategy" - does anyone really expect the Dems to win anywhere in the South? Maybe NC with Edwards on the ticket North Carolinians despise Edwards, even the Democrats, and rightly so — his record of not showing up to vote as a Senator because he's been too busy fellating the DNC has really pissed people off.

By: oog

oog — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:07:19 -0800

North Carolinians despise Edwards No they don't. I'm a North Carolinian, and while they're quite divided over him, to say they despise him is pretty wrong. Try again.

By: dagny

dagny — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:07:28 -0800

Edwards probably won't win much for Lurch in the South; he didn't impress much in the primaries, and many dislike their senator because he's so flagrantly had higher ambitions all along rather than working for the state he was supposed to represent. Edwards is a male bimbo -- didn't Seinfeld call them "mimbos"? -- picked for his good looks. While I do admit that he sure is a cutie, that's all he is, an empty smile. Can hardly wait until the Dem convention in liberal Mass with liberals Dean, Kennedy and Gore. Ahh, what an incompetent campaign... even a kid could do better than the Dems against this administration.

By: dagny

dagny — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:09:00 -0800

How's this for a slogan: Kerry-Edwards'04: A metrosexual and a mimbo!

By: oog

oog — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:11:41 -0800

dagny, stop with the bullshit. it sounds like you're trying to convince yourself more than the rest of the thread.

By: octobersurprise

octobersurprise — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:20:15 -0800

Lurch/Breck-Girl I'm sorry. No. It's already been established that John Kerry is actually an Ent. (On preview: dagny, hon? You're trying too hard. It's all in the timing. Lighten up. Smile a little. Thx. )

By: jacobsee

jacobsee — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:30:58 -0800

my wife has gone from somewhat disinterested to "definitely voting for kerry" now that edwards has been selected for vp

By: konolia

konolia — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:33:44 -0800

No they don't. I'm a North Carolinian, and while they're quite divided over him, to say they despise him is pretty wrong. Try again. posted by oog at 2:07 PM EST on July 6 Honestly, it depends on who you ask. But it is very true that a lot of North Carolinians are really ticked off at him. On the other hand, being a Republican, him not voting doesn't upset me a bit ;-)

By: dagny

dagny — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:35:20 -0800

Sure, don't listen to me. What about Chris Heinz, less than three weeks ago: "I was very pro-[North Carolina Sen. John] Edwards in the spring," he said. "But now I think we may need someone with stronger credentials on foreign policy." At least I trust I won't hear the "chickenhawk" argument anymore on MeFi, as a result of Edwards being added to the ticket... :-D

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:35:55 -0800

What's going to feed the ugliness of this campaign season is that they're both Senators, and Senate or Congressional voting records are just too easy fodder for the Republican attack machine. Vote against a good bill because of an unacceptable rider? They nail you on the bill and call you anti-american (or whatever). Vote for a good bill despite an unacceptable rider? They nail you on the rider. Google "Wellstone" and "Seaweed". Or Max Cleland / Saxby Chambliss on just about anything,

By: Armitage Shanks

Armitage Shanks — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:36:35 -0800

didn't Seinfeld call them "mimbos"? Uhhh, no, it's "himbo". "Mim" wouldn't mean much, would it? Sheesh, what a dimbo.

By: Space Coyote

Space Coyote — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:40:40 -0800

How's this for a slogan: Kerry-Edwards'04: A metrosexual and a mimbo! posted by dagny at 3:09 PM AST on July 6 squeak squeak.

By: moonbird

moonbird — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:43:16 -0800

Um, I'm in NC, and I know people a-go-go who love Edwards, some Repubs. I think Eddie-baby could conceivably tip the state.

By: anser

anser — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:43:57 -0800

Edwards's boyishness makes Kerry look more distinguished and Presidential by comparison. His trial lawyer chops will enable him to go for the jugular in the VP debate. That will be the fun one to watch. I think he made a pretty smart pick overall. Hopefully they both hit the road and work those swing states.

By: pmurray63

pmurray63 — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:46:37 -0800

So the Bushies are smugly quoting what Kerry said about Edwards during the primaries. Do they appreciate the irony that they are now bragging about an ad with John McCain, whom they viciously smeared in South Carolina during the 200 primaries? I didn't think so.

By: scarabic

scarabic — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:49:57 -0800

"Republican" has two more letters than "Democrat," yet the abbreviation "Dem" has no obvious counterpart. May I suggest: "Rub?" as in, "the Dems are gonna beat the Rubs." Or just shitcan that and start calling them "shirts" and "skins." Which begs the real question: which one of these tickets do you want to see naked to the waist? You know you don't wanna gaze upon those pudgy Rub moobs. Cheney's left one pulsates grotesquely, I hear.

By: swell

swell — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:51:34 -0800

That GOP oppo page has some pretty good stuff on it. Edwards Has “Never Done Any Serious Farming.” Edwards Doesn’t Follow Weekly NASCAR Races, Adds He “Doesn’t Follow Anything Except Politicking.” Edwards Hasn’t Hunted Or Fished “In Years.” Edwards Has “In The Past Been A Country Music Fan.” (Tim Funk, “Q&A With John Edwards,” The Charlotte Observer, 5/26/03) Edwards Can’t Even Remember Make Or Model Of His Own Truck. We know rednecks. Rednecks are friends of ours. And you, John Edwards, are no redneck.

By: ParisParamus

ParisParamus — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 11:53:31 -0800

If Edwards is smart, he will tie most of his lawyer talents up with rope, shove them in the closet, and lock the door. For better or worse, most Americans hate attorneys.

By: Outlawyr

Outlawyr — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 12:03:28 -0800

"most Americans hate attorneys" Which poll are you citing. Oh yeah, the one that exists in your mind.

By: Armitage Shanks

Armitage Shanks — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 12:05:48 -0800

Yeah, Clinton was really unpopular.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 12:13:20 -0800

"most Americans hate attorneys" not the kind of attorney Edwards was--he helped people after they were hurt and/or killed by big corporations: Until he moved to the Senate, Edwards was a personal injury lawyer---the kind people most love to hate---and a very talented one. More than half his cases were medical malpractice suits. Many involved infants born with brain damage or other serious conditions that entail a lifetime of expensive medical care. Edwards also won cases against hospitals, cities, and corporations. ...In 1997, Edwards successfully sued a doctor for $23 million on behalf of the parents of a baby severely brain damaged by oxygen deprivation during labor. The defining case in Edwards' legal career wrapped up that same year. In 1993, a five-year-old girl named Valerie Lakey had been playing in a Wake County, N.C., wading pool when she became caught in an uncovered drain so forcefully that the suction pulled out most of her intestines. She survived but for the rest of her life will need to be hooked up to feeding tubes for 12 hours each night. Edwards filed suit on the Lakeys' behalf against Sta-Rite Industries, the Wisconsin corporation that manufactured the drain. Attorneys describe his handling of the case as a virtuoso example of a trial layer bringing a negligent corporation to heel. You could say he's a good guy (and he is, especially compared to Cheney--a visible symbol of bad corporate cronyism and behavior)

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 12:18:48 -0800

GOP warns of Kerry bounce. You know, if the Bushies managed the country or the war with 1/1000th of the commitment, attention and professionalism they give their politics, I might even vote for them. But as John DiIulio discovered, for the Mayberry Machiavellis that's not even an option.

By: lazaruslong

lazaruslong — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 12:19:26 -0800

We know rednecks. Rednecks are friends of ours. And you, John Edwards, are no redneck. posted by swell at 11:51 AM PST on July 6 *dies laughing* thank you, swell.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 12:33:47 -0800

Cheney must be relieved that they won't be debating about his energy task force. He owes Scalia another hunting trip.

By: aaronscool

aaronscool — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 12:39:50 -0800

Well judging solely on the amount of right wing vitriol being spewed here it seems like Edwards was an excellent pick. Considering that Cheney has all the presence and personality of Darth Vader I'm really not too worried about seeing him matched up with John Edwards. In more ways than one it could be a rematch of the Kennedy/Nixon debates. Sure a trial lawyer won't win any neo-con, "greed is good", "I'm for the haves and have more" types, but was that who Kerry was picking for? Anyone who saw Edwards in the primaries knows that this is a person who can connect with average working people and has a message that is surprisingly upbeat and inclusive. In Edwards Kerry has picked a nice guy that people tend to like when they see and hear him.

By: ChrisTN

ChrisTN — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 12:54:55 -0800

Or just shitcan that and start calling them "shirts" and "skins." Which begs the real question: which one of these tickets do you want to see naked to the waist? You know you don't wanna gaze upon those pudgy Rub moobs. Cheney's left one pulsates grotesquely, I hear. Jeebus, scarabic, give a guy nightmares, why don't ya.

By: scarabic

scarabic — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 13:07:52 -0800

Sorry ChrisTN! However Edwards' credentials and experience qualify him to govern, we shouldn't overlook the fact that he's now campaign-talking-head #1, and he'll likely do an amazing job of that on behalf of Kerry. He's a great speaker & charismatic as hell, qualities I'm sure his lawyerly background helped to forge. His pretty face is an asset, if only because the press will love running pictures of him. His "inexperience" can and will come across as fresh energy, the antidote to the Bush/Cheney insider stench (not to mention the stagnation of the DNC).

By: pmurray63

pmurray63 — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 13:09:33 -0800

Edwards Doesn’t Follow Weekly NASCAR Races, Adds He “Doesn’t Follow Anything Except Politicking.” Unlike that rabid NASCAR fan Dick Cheney.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 13:12:02 -0800

ah, found it: So this was the dilemma: Edwards was the best salesman, but Kerry was the best product. If you had to choose one or the other, I thought it was more important to pick the salesman, since the consequences of losing the election were far more serious than the consequences of electing the less qualified Democrat. The logic made sense, but the premise was mistaken. Democrats didn't have to choose. They could get the best product along with the best salesman, if Kerry had the wisdom to pick Edwards.--from Saletan in Slate

By: rushmc

rushmc — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 13:21:50 -0800

I'll take that bet, rush. How about $20? Geez, what do you think I am, a rich Republican? Edwards is a male bimbo -- didn't Seinfeld call them "mimbos"? -- picked for his good looks. While I do admit that he sure is a cutie, that's all he is, an empty smile. Edwards is no Quayle, sorry. lol Dreama re: "Breck-girl."

By: tetsuo

tetsuo — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 13:24:09 -0800

I'm sorry, I have to say it, Edwards reminds me of Damien Thorn.

By: tetsuo

tetsuo — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 13:27:21 -0800

Everyone keeps saying he doesn't have a chance..just like they said a few months ago, when he almost ran away with the nomination. I hope he continues to surprise his detractors.

By: moonbird

moonbird — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 13:28:47 -0800

Chimpy had 6 years in 'governing' Texas- Eddie-baby has six years in the Senate. Chimpy is somehow a 'national security' candidate. Why can't Edwards? Stoopid dichotomy and short memories I'm hearing in the media.

By: Orb

Orb — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 16:22:36 -0800

Some people might call what Bush did in Texas governing, and some of us wouldn't.

By: gluechunk

gluechunk — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 16:54:16 -0800

didn't Seinfeld call them "mimbos"? Uhhh, no, it's "himbo". "Mim" wouldn't mean much, would it? Sheesh, what a dimbo. Wrong. The Seinfeld episode The Stall has the following dialog:: Jerry: "Elaine, he's a.. he's a male bimbo, he's a mimbo" Elaine: "he's not a mimbo, he's an exciting, charismatic man. he just happened to have a perfect face" See also The Seinfeld Glossary But I guess you would agree with this page:

The word "himbo" is the result of a linguistic sex-change operation that sutured the male pronoun him onto the usually feminine insult bimbo. (Although bimbo is often dressed in a gender-neutral suit that gives it a meaning similar to bozo; i.e., a stupid or useless person.) It's a better blend than the less intelligible mimbo (male bimbo) mix that was coined in a Seinfeld episode.

By: dejah420

dejah420 — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:09:22 -0800

I can almost picture it: Cheney snarling like an animal, Edwards whimpering and kneeling on the stage...Cheney advances and delivers the fatal blow: "Go F**K YOURSELF!" Edwards collapses in a puddle of quivering and tears. I feel so *dirty* having seen that little bit of self gratification. Goodness. You know you don't wanna gaze upon those pudgy Rub moobs. Scarabic, you're not helping... ;)

By: Space Coyote

Space Coyote — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 17:42:32 -0800

CNN did a funny thing today, they listed the talking points released by the RNC for their surrogates to use to attack Edwards. Then right afterward they had Mitt Romney (republican governer of massachussets) on and asked him about Edwards. He mentioned just about all of them. In order. How do MAers feel about having a governer who doesn't seem to enjoy speaking or thinking for himself?

By: PinkStainlessTail

PinkStainlessTail — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 18:06:38 -0800

I can almost picture it: Cheney snarling like an animal... ...clutching his chest, keeling over, using his last foetid lungfull to curse the drug addict who gave him a clean bill of health...

By: amberglow

amberglow — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 18:58:50 -0800

Ok, who wants to bet Bush dumps Cheney for McCain?

By: Ethereal Bligh

Ethereal Bligh — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 19:24:12 -0800

Won't happen. Maybe if he'd announced last year sometime that he was retiring, it'd have been a splendid idea. Now, though, it would look bad. And anyway, Cheney calls the shots, not Bush. :)

By: amberglow

amberglow — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 19:31:35 -0800

I don't know...this has them scared. I'm thinking if they keep tanking in the polls, they'll have to.

By: nicwolff

nicwolff — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 19:37:57 -0800

I've been saying that same thing for a week or two, amberglow, ever since McCain started tossing Bush's salad. (I figure McCain remembered he needs the Republican Party when he woke up with Jim Jeffords' head in his bed.) So Cheney bows out, claiming health problems. Bush announces McCain, wins. McCain gets anything he wants short-term, plus a shot at the presidency in '08 and maybe '12. And, Bligh: Cheney still calls the shots.

By: bashos_frog

bashos_frog — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 19:42:29 -0800

Just an aside - is there anyone else outside the U.S. that has trouble browsing http://www.georgewbush.com? I can't get to it from any of my computers (work, home, etc.) in Japan. Conspiracy?

By: amberglow

amberglow — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 19:42:55 -0800

also, i'm thinking that Cheney's gotten all he can out of the Veep slot (Halliburton-wise), and can go right back to the company. Even if they got a second term (which Bush/Cheney won't), they wouldn't be able to get away with what they did this first term. Cheney can bow out at any time before the convention, which is shaping up to be bad for them anyway.

By: Ethereal Bligh

Ethereal Bligh — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 20:22:10 -0800

Okay, I agree that some sort of an "emergency" announcement concerning Cheney's health might be believable enough not to look like the desperate tactic that it would actually be. However, all indications are that Cheney runs this administration, it's hard to imagine him bowing out. Although, true, Powell, his nemesis, is leaving. But my intuition tells me that there's very little real political chance of this happening. I mean, I suspect that if you floated this to people who really know, they'd laugh and laugh. And, anyway, it wouldn't be enough to make the difference for Bush anyway. Not even McCain, prolly. Well, maybe. Hmm, no, I don't think it would. And although McCain may be carrying water for Bush right now, he still hates him with a passion and the things he wrote in his book were burning bridges sorts of things. No way, no way would Bush want him and McCain couldn't work with BushCo. "Not gonna happen" in the words of Bush pere. Yah, they're desperate. That's good, though, because they're very stupid and have a long history of misjudging the political effects of their decisions. They're more likely to do something really stupid that nail the coffin shut. I don't think anything will help them, certainly capturing Osama won't help enough at this point. An attack on US soil won't help, contrary to many people's assertions. It'd probably hurt, since this election will be decided by the swing voters and they'll lose even more confidence in Bush after another attack. Amber, I wouldn't worry overmuch about what the GOP is gonna do. Whatever it is, it's not going to help. It's too late to pull this one out.

By: Dreama

Dreama — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 20:25:13 -0800

lol Dreama re: "Breck-girl." Wish it were mine, but it's not.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 20:37:08 -0800

Amber, I wouldn't worry overmuch about what the GOP is gonna do. Actually, i'd rather worry about them replacing Cheney than what i'm really afraid they'll do when they get desperate.

By: marsha56

marsha56 — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:15:36 -0800

I've been doing a happy-dance all day ever since I heard the news this morning. I think most swing voters can look over the disaster this presidency has become and immediately see that Kerry is far more compentent. But Kerry just wasn't giving anybody anything to get excited over. I think Edwards will turn this right around. I agree with Amber on what a great salesman for Kerry he will be. And today for the first time, I find myself agreeing with EB's confidence and optimism. Can't wait to see the next polls!

By: rushmc

rushmc — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:25:41 -0800

Wish it were mine, but it's not. Eeewwww...you made me laugh at Rush Limbaugh (and not in the usual way)...I feel so dirty...thanks a lot!

By: rushmc

rushmc — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:26:25 -0800

I think most swing voters... All three of them?

By: marsha56

marsha56 — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:36:01 -0800

I think most swing voters... All three of them? This race has been so tight, I think it will be up to those three swing voters, Tim, Dick and Harriet to decide.

By: Ethereal Bligh

Ethereal Bligh — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 22:37:24 -0800

Actually, i'd rather worry about them replacing Cheney than what i'm really afraid they'll do when they get desperate.—Amberglow

Funny you should mention that. I scared myself and a friend a few weeks ago when I remarked that it is not entirely fantastical to wonder if the admin might try to somehow suspend the election. This should be unthinkable; but with this administration, and with their near martial-law attitude about this never-ending "war on terror", it's not. It's thinkable. This scared me and my friend because I'm very, very much not a conspiracy-theorist-leftist kind of person prone to such paranoid or near-paranoid thoughts. Michael Moore irritates me more than not, for example. But these folks are both desperate and incredibly morally self-satisfied and certain. (Not Cheney, he's just The Beast and very self-interested.) I can easily believe that some of them—including, significantly, dubya—are capable of convincing themselves that a Kerry victory would mean a loss for America in the "war on terror" and that this would be simply unacceptable. That doesn't mean it will happen, or is likely to happen. But this is the one Al Qaeda attack on US soil scenario that does really scares the hell out of me. (Concerning the election, of course. Generally, any possible attack scares me.) I can see it being used as an excuse for the above. Maybe, though, I've been touched by the paranoid flu. Probably so.

By: Dreama

Dreama — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 22:47:51 -0800

Eeewwww...you made me laugh at Rush Limbaugh <Nelson Muntz> Ha ha! </Nelson Muntz>

By: geekhorde

geekhorde — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 23:07:55 -0800

It's not going to matter at all. The Republicans are going to rig this election just like they rigged the last one. And they'll get away with it too, no matter how many black people in Florida are pissed that their right to vote was denied them. Goodbye Democracy. Hello Fascist Amerika! (I hope I'm wrong, but I'm afraid I'm right.)

By: MidasMulligan

MidasMulligan — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 23:19:16 -0800

dagny, stop with the bullshit. it sounds like you're trying to convince yourself more than the rest of the thread. Oddly ... a good number of those posting in the daily leftist MeFi threads might do well do consider this. not the kind of attorney Edwards was--he helped people after they were hurt and/or killed by big corporations Which certainly is the Trial Lawyers position (the Trial Lawyers, of course, being one of the top two or three doners to the Democratic Party in the past several elections). Of course, in the growing number of states where it is becoming nearly impossible to get an OB-GYN or pediatrician in rural counties - because malpratice insurance is now so high that doctors are simply leaving - that whole notion of "helping people fight The Man" may seem a tad questionable. But of course, the fact that for every one person that has be "hurt or killed" by big corporations there are hundreds of thousands that have been helped - and that these people are all paying more money for the products and services that benefit them so that the John Edwards' of the world can do their noble work ... probably won't get mentioned as even part of the picture.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Tue, 06 Jul 2004 23:24:32 -0800

But this is the one Al Qaeda attack on US soil scenario that does really scares the hell out of me. Or an attack from the homegrown version.

By: konolia

konolia — Wed, 07 Jul 2004 04:23:25 -0800

Dang, EB, tear off the tinfoil, willya????

By: Space Coyote

Space Coyote — Wed, 07 Jul 2004 05:28:32 -0800

MidasMulligan's right, what's a few disemboweled babies matter when there's business to be done?

By: dagny

dagny — Wed, 07 Jul 2004 06:22:41 -0800

Dick Morris says DISASTER IS LURKING: apparent positives could be overcome by big-time negatives if the trial-lawyer donations blow up in Edwards' face

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 07 Jul 2004 07:01:26 -0800

But of course, the fact that for every one person that has be "hurt or killed" by big corporations there are hundreds of thousands that have been helped - and that these people are all paying more money for the products and services that benefit them so that the John Edwards' of the world can do their noble work ... probably won't get mentioned as even part of the picture. What Space Coyote said. Why should corporations actually doing what they're supposed to--not killing or maiming people with their products--get mentioned at all? Isn't that a no-brainer? And isn't it a sin and a shame that corporations often don't bother with safety until someone actually is hurt or killed? Too bad for them if they don't like the bad publicity or that they have to pay--it still doesn't compare to the horror and pain people affected undergo. We pay extra for all the advertising and promotion that corporations (and doctors and hospitals and drug companies) do--why not pay extra for insurance and to cover their fuckups? (I won't even start on doctor and hospital fuckups)

By: lodurr

lodurr — Wed, 07 Jul 2004 07:44:53 -0800

But these folks are both desperate and incredibly morally self-satisfied and certain. (Not Cheney, he's just The Beast and very self-interested.) Be careful: this is a potentially serious misunderestimation, IMO. (You know, it's actually a pretty apt term sometimes...) You can't assume that because someone is intensely self-interested, they're not also deluded and fanatical. One of the great evolutionary advantages of modern post-calvinist protestantism is that it schools its adherents in how to live with contradiction. So Dick Cheney can both be absolutely convinced that he's acting in the morally right way, and absolutely believe that's where his motivations are, and yet the whole time be acting clearly and obviously to further his own financial interests in contradiction of is stated moral aims. This isn't a slam at Christianity, per se, BTW. It's an observation about this certain variety of master-morality American Capitalists, of which The Dick and Dubya are really excellent examples.

By: XQUZYPHYR

XQUZYPHYR — Wed, 07 Jul 2004 07:48:01 -0800

Dick Morris says Thank you, we can stop there.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 07 Jul 2004 07:53:32 -0800

I guess this kind of trial lawyer is ok for some people, huh? Chester James Doles, a former Klansman and the Georgia leader of the National Alliance, admitted Monday to illegal possession of a dozen guns. During the 1990s, Doles was sentenced to multiyear terms for battery and burglary in Maryland. Federal law forbids possession of firearms by those who have been convicted of a crime and served more than a year. Former U.S. Rep. Bob Barr, one of Doles' lawyers, said he expects Doles' sentence to be no longer than 10 years.

By: Ethereal Bligh

Ethereal Bligh — Wed, 07 Jul 2004 08:46:48 -0800

Konolia, you're right, that's pretty paranoid. It's not like me at all. I know you like these guys, but surely you can see why things like the torture memo and many other things have some of us not-paranoid types becoming more paranoid? There really is a constant subtext from this administration that in this time of national emergency, the executive branch is beyond congressional authority and judicial review (and entitled to keep anything and everything secret). Rhetoric from Bush to Ashcroft has been a steady "civil liberties and the rule of law are for peace time, not war time". And then there is this constant rhetoric that Dems are essentially unAmerican and all that. Put it all together and it seems to me that lots of people could convince themselves that a Dem victory in the election would be so disastrous for the US that suspending the election would be justified. Especially if there were another attack shortly beforehand.

By: amberglow

amberglow — Wed, 07 Jul 2004 08:51:06 -0800

EB, konolia still trusts them. Based on what, i don't know.

By: Ethereal Bligh

Ethereal Bligh — Wed, 07 Jul 2004 08:53:46 -0800

XQUZYPHYR, how about this:

from DCNights.com: DickMorris says, "Mysty Love is extremely sexy, accomodating, and quite frankly a bargain. From BDSM to attending a State dinner, she's a pro—a class act—all the way. (Huge tatas!)"

Would you read that? You have to admit, the man can speak authoritatively on many, er, "inside the beltway" topics.

By: rushmc

rushmc — Wed, 07 Jul 2004 09:16:08 -0800

EB, konolia still trusts them. Based on what, i don't know. Faith, of course!

By: George_Spiggott

George_Spiggott — Wed, 07 Jul 2004 10:12:53 -0800

And of course, thanks to Diebold we now have faith-based voting; because casting a ballot with one of those machines is technically indistiguishable from prayer.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Wed, 07 Jul 2004 11:41:37 -0800

Speaking of inexperience

By: homunculus

homunculus — Wed, 07 Jul 2004 11:45:07 -0800

"The Sept. 11 commission, which reported no evidence of collaborative links between Iraq and al Qaeda, said on Tuesday that Vice President Dick Cheney had no more information than commission investigators to support his later assertions to the contrary."