comic books the new novel?
July 12, 2004 8:29 AM Subscribe
Are comic bookser...I mean Graphic Novels the new novel?
I'm not afraid to put my TPB copies of The Sandman out on my bookshelf, if that's what you mean.
posted by WolfDaddy at 8:32 AM on July 12, 2004
posted by WolfDaddy at 8:32 AM on July 12, 2004
Well considering the financial slump the comic industry has going through for the past 5 years then no.
posted by PenDevil at 8:36 AM on July 12, 2004
posted by PenDevil at 8:36 AM on July 12, 2004
Are Bazooka Joe wrappers the new Classics Illustrated?
posted by Smart Dalek at 8:44 AM on July 12, 2004
posted by Smart Dalek at 8:44 AM on July 12, 2004
also, comics cost way to much damn money. $3 for 5 minutes of entertainment? yeah right.
posted by delmoi at 8:50 AM on July 12, 2004
posted by delmoi at 8:50 AM on July 12, 2004
So, tell me, did anyone who has commented read the article? We're talking “Graphic Novels”, they're longer. Think Maus, think Batman: The Dark Night Returns.
posted by Grod at 8:54 AM on July 12, 2004
posted by Grod at 8:54 AM on July 12, 2004
It's a pretty good article, but how in the world can someone write that many words on the history of the form without mentioning Will Eisner?
posted by tdismukes at 9:03 AM on July 12, 2004
posted by tdismukes at 9:03 AM on July 12, 2004
because the article's focus is on currently active creators?
I know Eisner's alive and kicking, but of the folks the article highlights, Spiegleman's the least currently-active, and he's actually been working. It's only the fabulous diversity of American media outlets that prevented our seeing his recent stuff until Eggers and Ware sampled it for us recently.
I actually wanted to hear more about Pekar - but then, I have a selfish reason for that, which must remain discreetly held.
posted by mwhybark at 9:12 AM on July 12, 2004
I know Eisner's alive and kicking, but of the folks the article highlights, Spiegleman's the least currently-active, and he's actually been working. It's only the fabulous diversity of American media outlets that prevented our seeing his recent stuff until Eggers and Ware sampled it for us recently.
I actually wanted to hear more about Pekar - but then, I have a selfish reason for that, which must remain discreetly held.
posted by mwhybark at 9:12 AM on July 12, 2004
The thing is Grod, that graphic novels still cost exponentially more money than regularl novels. I've made several efforts to get better aquainted with the medium but I couldn't afford popping out $50 CND for a new novel every week it was costing me, despite my love for the art. Maybe it's just where I'm shopping?
posted by Evstar at 9:17 AM on July 12, 2004
posted by Evstar at 9:17 AM on July 12, 2004
The besetting sin of "graphic novel" comics is padding. That is, when the artist does panel after panel after panel that is nearly identical. Sometimes it is done to support a dialogue, in which case it is simply a bad directorial choice. Sometimes it is supposed to give incredible significance to some small variation between panels. Sometimes is a deliberate pacing device. In all cases, it more or less fails. Robert Crumb used to do this repeated-panels-with-small-variations bit to great effect, but then Crumb did everything to great effect.
posted by Faze at 9:17 AM on July 12, 2004
posted by Faze at 9:17 AM on July 12, 2004
I'd consider having enjoyed "The Watchmen" to be about as valid a measure of being well-read as, say: Jane Austen, Patrick O'Brien, or the Red/Green/Blue Mars trilogy.
Less so than Gravity's Rainbow or Ulysses, more so than Tom Clancy, Candace Bushnell, or J.D. Salinger.
In other words, novels run a wide range of cultural acceptance and creative worth, along many many axes. So I find the question ill-posed.
posted by freebird at 9:48 AM on July 12, 2004
Less so than Gravity's Rainbow or Ulysses, more so than Tom Clancy, Candace Bushnell, or J.D. Salinger.
In other words, novels run a wide range of cultural acceptance and creative worth, along many many axes. So I find the question ill-posed.
posted by freebird at 9:48 AM on July 12, 2004
Nothing's the new anything, but there is some great work being done in comics. The new issue of McSweeney's, mentioned in the article, is edited by Chris Ware and presents a handsome overview. Ware's Jimmy Corrigan is absolutely brilliant, gorgeous, and surprisingly moving--a must-read if you're at all interested in the form, as is all of Clowes' work. I've also enjoyed Alan Moore's Promethea lately, a more traditionally superhero-influenced book that turns into a very trippy lesson in mysticism and is about to reach its conclusion. There's a lot of great stuff out there to be explored--but is anybody still truly dismissing comic books altogether? I thought that fight was won when Spiegelman won his Pulitzer.
posted by muckster at 9:57 AM on July 12, 2004
posted by muckster at 9:57 AM on July 12, 2004
Actually, the article SHOULD have mentioned Eisner because it incorrectly attributed the term "sequential art" to Scott McLoud [sic]. That's the problem with these articles, they all come from someone well-versed in mainstream literature who discovers something like Maus and suddenly thinks he's qualified to write on the subject.
posted by dagnyscott at 10:05 AM on July 12, 2004
posted by dagnyscott at 10:05 AM on July 12, 2004
The thing is Grod, that graphic novels still cost exponentially more money than regularl novels. I've made several efforts to get better aquainted with the medium but I couldn't afford popping out $50 CND for a new novel every week it was costing me, despite my love for the art. Maybe it's just where I'm shopping?
Do what I do (granted, one of my jobs is at a book store). Order the ones you want to read, then read them. If you like them, buy them and read them again, if you don't, leave them on the shelf.
The cost may come down on some mainstream books now that B&N has started reprinting graphic novels at discounted rates (only Marvel so far).
posted by drezdn at 10:08 AM on July 12, 2004
Do what I do (granted, one of my jobs is at a book store). Order the ones you want to read, then read them. If you like them, buy them and read them again, if you don't, leave them on the shelf.
The cost may come down on some mainstream books now that B&N has started reprinting graphic novels at discounted rates (only Marvel so far).
posted by drezdn at 10:08 AM on July 12, 2004
The thing is Grod, that graphic novels still cost exponentially more money than regularl novels. I've made several efforts to get better aquainted with the medium but I couldn't afford popping out $50 CND for a new novel every week it was costing me, despite my love for the art. Maybe it's just where I'm shopping?
Do what I do, go to a library.
posted by biffa at 10:17 AM on July 12, 2004
Do what I do, go to a library.
posted by biffa at 10:17 AM on July 12, 2004
Well, one major thing that Graphic Novels have made me do is completely lose interest in comic books. Not that I was ever hugely into them, but I actively go out of my way now not to even peruse them until they're bound up nicely in a single collection for me to read in a single sitting.
If comic books are chapters, I want complete books.
posted by effugas at 11:01 AM on July 12, 2004
If comic books are chapters, I want complete books.
posted by effugas at 11:01 AM on July 12, 2004
No. Pictures and words communicate differently. Novels have more words.
posted by dame at 12:27 PM on July 12, 2004
posted by dame at 12:27 PM on July 12, 2004
Blatant self-link:
I recently did acomic graphic novel...
(my first... be gentle with me...)
posted by jpburns at 12:31 PM on July 12, 2004
I recently did a
(my first... be gentle with me...)
posted by jpburns at 12:31 PM on July 12, 2004
The only thing that bothers me about this is the snobbery of some of the new graphic novel readers - those who can't come to terms with the fact that they are reading comics, and feel the need to elevate them to some higher level of importance. As though comics and graphic novels are in no way related.
I worked at a bookstore for 5 years and was one day chewed out by a snooty customer because we had shelved Maus in the comics section (the comics section was divided into two sections - humour/sunday funnies and graphic novels). This customer stated that Maus was literature and had no business being in the comics section.
I've been a comic reader my entire life. I agree that Maus is a great and a very important book (well, 2 books), but I can't divorce it from being a comic. As a shopper, I look for my comics/graphic novels in the comics section. That's where they should be. This woman, however, did not want to have to be forced to shop out of the comic section and asked that in future we shelve Maus in history.
I just bring this up because she wasn't the only person. There seems to be a new breed of graphic novel readers who would not be caught dead reading a comic.
posted by fizz-ed at 1:30 PM on July 12, 2004
I worked at a bookstore for 5 years and was one day chewed out by a snooty customer because we had shelved Maus in the comics section (the comics section was divided into two sections - humour/sunday funnies and graphic novels). This customer stated that Maus was literature and had no business being in the comics section.
I've been a comic reader my entire life. I agree that Maus is a great and a very important book (well, 2 books), but I can't divorce it from being a comic. As a shopper, I look for my comics/graphic novels in the comics section. That's where they should be. This woman, however, did not want to have to be forced to shop out of the comic section and asked that in future we shelve Maus in history.
I just bring this up because she wasn't the only person. There seems to be a new breed of graphic novel readers who would not be caught dead reading a comic.
posted by fizz-ed at 1:30 PM on July 12, 2004
There seems to be a new breed of graphic novel readers who would not be caught dead reading a comic.
My guess is that those people will give up on graphic novels once the attention is off them.
posted by drezdn at 2:29 PM on July 12, 2004
My guess is that those people will give up on graphic novels once the attention is off them.
posted by drezdn at 2:29 PM on July 12, 2004
I just finished a book on the Voltaire of comic books, Jack Kirby.
posted by jpburns at 4:46 PM on July 12, 2004
posted by jpburns at 4:46 PM on July 12, 2004
Not that everyone who bothered to read this thread didn't know about it already, but Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics talks about this with a great deal of erudition (and in comic-book form, too).
posted by bingo at 5:07 PM on July 12, 2004
posted by bingo at 5:07 PM on July 12, 2004
jpburns, I like. Question, did you do that on the computer (wacom + photoshop or painter or something?) or draw and scan?
posted by Grod at 6:30 PM on July 12, 2004
posted by Grod at 6:30 PM on July 12, 2004
Anyone who's in to graphic novels/independent comics/alternative forms of media should check out the ganzfeld. I own all of the volumes so far, and can't wait for the next. The publishers, PictureBox, Inc. are responsible for the new Wilco book and cover art on the new album, A Ghost Is Born.
posted by OntologicalPuppy at 11:35 PM on July 12, 2004
posted by OntologicalPuppy at 11:35 PM on July 12, 2004
Question, did you do that on the computer (wacom + photoshop or painter or something? ) or draw and scan?
Both. I drew it in pencil, then scanned it, adjusted it, and colored it in the computer. The original was laid out as a traditional comic book, and was later cut apart to make the web version.
Another short work I did is here.
posted by jpburns at 4:15 AM on July 13, 2004
Both. I drew it in pencil, then scanned it, adjusted it, and colored it in the computer. The original was laid out as a traditional comic book, and was later cut apart to make the web version.
Another short work I did is here.
posted by jpburns at 4:15 AM on July 13, 2004
fizz-ed:
I don't have personal experience with the attitude you mention, but your conception of it is quite widespread in the comics community. Peter Bagge went on about it at annoyed, amusing length when I interviewed him in December.
I too note effugas's reluctance to pick up the 'pamphlets,' as they are known.
posted by mwhybark at 3:33 PM on July 14, 2004
I don't have personal experience with the attitude you mention, but your conception of it is quite widespread in the comics community. Peter Bagge went on about it at annoyed, amusing length when I interviewed him in December.
I too note effugas's reluctance to pick up the 'pamphlets,' as they are known.
posted by mwhybark at 3:33 PM on July 14, 2004
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posted by inksyndicate at 8:31 AM on July 12, 2004