Oh, You Mean Those Records

July 23, 2004 4:18 PM

Oh, You Mean Those Records The Pentagon released "newly discovered payroll records from President Bush's 1972 service in the Alabama National Guard." The earlier statement that the records were inadvertently destroyed was an "inadvertent oversight." [Previously discussed here and here.]
posted by kirkaracha (39 comments total)

Maybe this is why the resurrected records were released after 5:00 p.m. EST on a Friday:

Like records released earlier by the White House, the newly released computerized payroll records show no indication Bush drilled with the Alabama unit during July, August and September of 1972. Pay records covering all of 1972, released previously, also indicated no guard service for Bush during those three months.

Meanwhile, Kerry can't make up his mind whether he threw medals or ribbons! He's a flip-flopper!
posted by kirkaracha at 4:19 PM on July 23, 2004

metafilter : where merely being informed of horseshit and atrocities makes it easy enough to fall asleep each night
posted by Satapher at 4:27 PM on July 23, 2004

tee hee.
posted by The God Complex at 4:29 PM on July 23, 2004

Oh, this is just too grand.

"Inadvertant oversight," indeed.

I know that American MeFI users are aware that their administration has made the USA the laughingstock of the world. But does your "average joe" American have any idea of just how ridiculous it all looks?
posted by five fresh fish at 4:41 PM on July 23, 2004

I'm not sure the average joe American much cares.
posted by bz at 4:54 PM on July 23, 2004

Hey everyone, look over there in San Diego harbor there's a shiny new aircraft carrier named the Ronald Reagan.
posted by liam at 4:57 PM on July 23, 2004

So we need a third newsfilter post to show that the last two newsfilter posts of last week were, in fact, incorrect hand-wringing over nothing. Guess it won't stop the natural drive of the tinfoil hat brigade to suggest that everyone is in a conspiracy, but at least we got this oh-so-important three part newsfilter story fleshed out.

Can we get another update later when some other inconsequential detail comes up?
posted by Seth at 5:04 PM on July 23, 2004

Well, I for one certainly do believe this. Yes sirree bob. I'm behind ya 100% there Mr. President.....

Well, maybe not...
posted by damnitkage at 5:11 PM on July 23, 2004

Seth, it's NewsFilter and I was counting the minutes till it showed up; but, man, your veneer of non-partisanship is peeling. To me, this looks like pretty big news, not an inconsequential detail.

Doesn't mean it belongs here, though.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:18 PM on July 23, 2004

EB, not sure how my "veneer" is peeling by calling this inconsequential. This was a non-story to begin with. If we want to win this election, we need something more than this worthless story about Bush *maybe* missing a month or two 30 years ago. That is a non-story and won't draw any votes. All the hand-wringing over it is petty and ridiculous.

The real news is that next week, my party will presenting its Platform. Contained within will be some really serious issues, both domestically and internationally. Such things make good discussion and are important. This sort of crap is a disgrace. The constant conspiracy mongering over non-sense is barely even newsfilter. Its more like could-be-newsfilter.

As such, it is worthless and doesn't belong here. By engaging in such conspiracy mongering, we end up looking no better than Freepers.
posted by Seth at 5:25 PM on July 23, 2004

Seth, if I tell you to shut the fuck up and fuck the fuck off, will you drag me to MeTa?
posted by mr.marx at 5:59 PM on July 23, 2004

Seth is right. This is non-news about an inconsequential non-event. Politics is supposed to about policies, no?
posted by cbrody at 6:19 PM on July 23, 2004

+be
posted by cbrody at 6:19 PM on July 23, 2004

Seth, fuck off.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:44 PM on July 23, 2004

What the-- I thought we all agreed to substitute that phrase with "bucket of cocks."
posted by DaShiv at 7:34 PM on July 23, 2004

Isn't there a penalty for desertion? I mean, for normal people?
posted by rushmc at 7:35 PM on July 23, 2004

Seth, bucket of cocks.


I really don't think that works, DaShiv.
posted by five fresh fish at 7:50 PM on July 23, 2004

I know that American MeFI users are aware that their administration has made the USA the laughingstock of the world. But does your "average joe" American have any idea of just how ridiculous it all looks?

So are "American MeFI users" above or below average?
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 8:11 PM on July 23, 2004

Politics is supposed to about policies, no?

Politics is also about trustworthiness and competence. Anything that will wake a lethargic public to the fact that our chief administrator lacks those two qualities is absolutely significant. I, and I'm not alone, have seen way too many idiots promoted above their skills because they talk a good game (flash a pretty policy). If nothing else, this issue proves that Bush can't walk the walk to back the talk.

And Seth, your little crusade is really stinking the place up ... far worse than this post did. Quit telling me what I should find significant or not. Since you haven't seemed to notice, your arrogance masquerading as gallantry is really pissing people off. The "we" you claim to belong to don't need a crusader ... "we" for the most part don't like crusaders. So, please, shut the fuck up and fuck the fuck off.
posted by Wulfgar! at 8:20 PM on July 23, 2004

"tinfoil hat brigade"

Where is this tinfoil hat brigade, and how do I sign up?

Look, here's the reason that this is not a 'nonevent' or a 'nonstory.' If the man deserted, and then got away with it because of his daddy's political connections, then that says volumes about A) himself as a man and his lack of either convictions or values for doing it in the first place and for not owning up to it in the second place, and B) about the type of corrupt and dishonest people that the man surrounds himself with.

This is important. And for you, or anyone, to say that this is 'newsfilter' or 'inconsequential' only demonstrates either your willful ignorance or blatant stupidity.

I'm also bored to fucking tears by people taking potshots at 'conspiracy theories.' Look, corrupt people in power want to stay in power, and will screw over anyone or tell any lies to ensure this. Open your eyes. And making fun of or ridiculing 'conspiracy theories' only ensures that conspiracies will succeed.

If this 'newsfilter' discussion offends thee so, then get the fuck out of the thread. I'm assuming no one is making you read this. Or comment on it.

So, in review, this piece of 'newsfilter' demonstrates that Bush is a valueless weasel, and that Bush's cronies and partisans will go to any lengths to protect his power and image. It also demonstrates that many clueless people will continue to completely disregard these obvious conclusions.
posted by geekhorde at 10:06 PM on July 23, 2004

Where is this tinfoil hat brigade, and how do I sign up?

Allegations that I failed to fully discharge my service in the Tinfoil Hat Brigade are entirely without merit. Unfortunately the relevant records have been misplaced, the Brigade not being much for red tape.
posted by IshmaelGraves at 10:38 PM on July 23, 2004

I'm not sure the average joe American much cares.

Study: Majority Of Americans Out Of Touch With Mainstream

According to a study published by the Popular Culture Research Group Monday, the majority of American citizens are out of touch with mainstream American society.

"We're not sure, at this point, whether this is a new trend or a continuation of an old trend," PCRG consultant Paul Van Lamm said. "All we know right now is that 70 to 85 percent of Americans are unfamiliar with, unaware of, or just plain don't care about what the American people are watching on television, seeing at the movie theater, listening to on their radios, wearing, rooting for, falling in love with all over again, or downloading."

According to Van Lamm, 71 percent of U.S. citizens polled had no interest in NASCAR racing, America's fastest-growing sport. Van Lamm added that 69 percent of poll respondents said they did not have a single Hispanic friend, in spite of the fact that Hispanics are the nation's fastest-growing minority group. Additionally, the majority of poll respondents did not see the final episode of Friends, television's most-watched sitcom.

"It's disturbing," Van Lamm said. "I'm uncomfortable with the number of U.S. citizens who have no interest in what interests the greater part of their fellow citizens."
posted by y2karl at 10:53 PM on July 23, 2004

"We've found the 30-year-old records! now handle them carefully, the ink's still wet on those."

Let's face it, conspiracy or no, this is just the sort of thing that makes people roll their eyes whenever they see the Pentagon's PR guy on the evening news. It's either bullshit or Keystoke Kops-style bungling. Neither of the choices is terribly attractive.
posted by clevershark at 11:12 PM on July 23, 2004

So this tinfoil hat ... it vibrates?
posted by geekhorde at 11:35 PM on July 23, 2004

Isn't there a penalty for desertion? I mean, for normal people?

Yup. And there's no statute of limitations either. Just ask this guy.
posted by Cyrano at 12:22 AM on July 24, 2004

Ask this guy, too.
posted by wsg at 12:34 AM on July 24, 2004

Fookinn' 'ell Seth, are you still stealing air from the rest of the planet's residents?

Seth & EB to complete my perfect In Camera threesome...
posted by i_cola at 2:17 AM on July 24, 2004

This is a nonstory. However, Clinton's blowjob was the greatest story ever told. Understood? Desertion non story, blowjob, blockbuster story. Got it.


Seth, bucket of cocks (nah, doesn't work, just go fuck off, Seth)
posted by sic at 5:44 AM on July 24, 2004

Steve@, the American Mefiers that agree with me are "above" and those that disagree with me are "below". This is of course variable according to the topic.

Duh.
posted by sic at 5:46 AM on July 24, 2004

I don't care if it is a great story or not. The Clinton years proved that if you throw enough mud at the wall, some of it will stick. Personally, I'm just about ready to give GWB a blowjob myself, if it would guarantee his impeachment (and conviction).
posted by bashos_frog at 6:50 AM on July 24, 2004

The Clinton years proved that if you throw enough mud at the wall, some of it will stick.

And yet, isn't it amazing how much slipperier Bush is than "Slick Willie?"
posted by rushmc at 8:08 AM on July 24, 2004

S@L: The "average" American is not a MeFi member. There are less than 18k registered users, not all of whom are American, and around 300M Americans.

"Better" or "worse" doesn't enter into the picture, Steve, although I will go out on a limb and postulate that MeFi Americans tend to be better-informed than average Americans.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:34 AM on July 24, 2004

to answer the question posed above, the penalty of deserting during a time of war:

Maximum punishment.

(1) Completed or attempted desertion with intent to avoid hazardous duty or to shirk important service. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 5 years.

(2) Other cases of completed or attempted desertion.

(a) Terminated by apprehension. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 3 years.
(b) Terminated otherwise. Dishonorable discharge, forfeiture of all pay and allowances, and confinement for 2 years.

(3) In time of war. Death or such other punishment as a court-martial may direct.

the death penalty would be an ironic penalty for a guy who executed 135 inmates while he was gov.
posted by tsarfan at 12:17 PM on July 24, 2004

some stuff on recent desertions (since 9/11 and more broadly, since '97)

and more on Bush not getting paychecks for 8 months of his "service to our country"
posted by amberglow at 12:35 PM on July 24, 2004

You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist or a Bush-Hater or anything else to think it's interesting if not odd that records which were "lost" for many years suddenly turned out to have been "inadvertently destroyed" and subsequently "found."

Remember, folks, the same Pentagon that lost, destroyed, and found these records is responsible for nuclear weapons.
posted by ilsa at 2:28 PM on July 24, 2004

If the Republicans are going to attack Kerry's youthful "indescretions" than Bush's are fair game too. Also, Bush is running on a platform of partriotism where he calls everyone who is not a Republican a patriot. Whether or not this guy ever spent ANY time doing his limited duty during the war is important.

Also, it really gets me that people had to ruin this post by arguing about whether or not it should be talked about here. That's what MetaTalk is for. Thanks.
posted by xammerboy at 5:00 PM on July 24, 2004

get this: on the order which SUPPOSEDLY gives Bush an "honorable discharge", the following words appear...

"DD FORM 258AF will be furnished"

And I just found this in the Code of Federal regulations, 32 CFR 887.7 [PDF]

(d) If (obsolete form) DD Form 258AF, Undesirable Discharge Certificate, has been issued,
posted by amberglow at 1:13 PM on July 25, 2004

Exciting news, amberglow, but then it goes on to identify a form 256AF which is an honourable discharge, and which would make sense in the context of the surrounding text.
posted by five fresh fish at 2:49 PM on July 25, 2004

Fuck off Seth (oh, I had to do that, don't you see?)
posted by acrobat at 6:47 AM on July 27, 2004