Falwell to give opening prayer at GOP convention.

July 30, 2004 8:16 AM

Falwell to give opening prayer at the Republican convention.Exactly who is out of the mainstream here?
posted by skallas (73 comments total)

It is a scientific fact that when needing to use the restroom, a male is called upon to engage in the unpleasant undertaking of extruding a poopy in only 1 out of every 3 visits

Unpleasant? This guy needs more quality time with his toilet.
posted by vbfg at 8:24 AM on July 30, 2004

Doh, quoting the wrong section. Words of wisdom indeed but on a different topic. ;)
posted by vbfg at 8:25 AM on July 30, 2004

Let's just hope he says something stupid and hateful, so that any remaining fence-sitters are completely alienated.
posted by jonmc at 8:27 AM on July 30, 2004

jonmc, that's not going to happen. After '92 with Buchanan declaring the "culture war" to be on the GOP learned its lesson. All their prime-time speakers will be their rare moderates.

Where the fuck is the outcry over this:

"God continues to lift the curtain and allow the enemies of America to give us probably what we deserve."

I mean, the right has been trying to pin that sentiment on the left for so long, but its their boy who actually said it.

Then again I lack faith. Specifically faith in the corporate media to take the right to task.
posted by skallas at 8:31 AM on July 30, 2004

I guess Rev Moon was busy.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 8:32 AM on July 30, 2004

jonmc, that's not going to happen. After '92 with Buchanan declaring the "culture war" to be on the GOP learned its lesson. All their prime-time speakers will be their rare moderates.

No harm in hoping. The fact that they picked him to show up gives me hope that they got careless.

Where the fuck is the outcry over this:...

Well, just a theory, but outside of the Evangelical Right, which is loud but still a distinct small minority of Americans, Fallwell is simply considered a religious nut, and people more or less ignore him. Which is good on one level (it means that most people don't agree with him) and bad on another (it let's him get away with shit).
posted by jonmc at 8:40 AM on July 30, 2004

Where the fuck is the outcry over this

Fucking hallelujah to that, skallas.
Of course, take away their Home Depot or their Outback steakhouse off their federally funded highway and the moral majority will squak like a bunch of pissed off overfed geese.
posted by Peter H at 8:41 AM on July 30, 2004

what are you guys talking about? jerry falwell is a fine america. for me to poop on.
posted by mcsweetie at 8:43 AM on July 30, 2004

It amazes me that Falwell can make contradictory statements like:

I had a student ask me, "Could the savior you believe in save Osama bin Laden?" Of course, we know the blood of Jesus Christ can save him, and then he must be executed.

without his head exploding.
posted by shagoth at 8:46 AM on July 30, 2004

mcsweetie, watch your mouth!
as we all know talk like that will get you thrown out of here
posted by Peter H at 8:47 AM on July 30, 2004

I personally think the whole convention thing is ridiculous. I could stand MAYBE, MAYBE 10 minutes of the Democratic convention before I was forced to stab myself in the eye.

I got one eye left, how long do you think the Republicans will take to get it?
posted by Addiction at 8:49 AM on July 30, 2004

I would say if you have one nervous eye on the LEFT and are blind on the RIGHT you are perfect for the GOP, Addiction.
posted by Peter H at 8:54 AM on July 30, 2004

Addiction: I say thirty seconds, give or take, before you're forced to shoot yourself. Forget the eye-stabbing.
posted by aramaic at 8:55 AM on July 30, 2004

Exactly who is out of the mainstream here?

Yeah ... 'cause of course Al Sharpton (who didn't just give an opening prayer, but was awarded a significant speaking spot) is so mainstream America.

Both sides have their religious loonies. And both sides put them on stage to appeal to the appropriate constituencies. Oddly, there seemed to be no one here examining Sharpton's "contradictions" in depth (and he is equally, if not more psychotic than Falwell), nor asking where the outcry was.

I would say if you have one nervous eye on the LEFT and are blind on the RIGHT you are perfect for the GOP, Addiction.

And vice versa - which is much more common on this board.
posted by MidasMulligan at 9:11 AM on July 30, 2004

More Fallwell gems:

"Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions"

"The ACLU is to Christians what the American Nazi party is to Jews"

"AIDS is not just God's punishment for homosexuals; it is God's punishment for the society that tolerates homosexuals"

"Billy Graham is the chief servant of Satan in America"

Okay, maybe that last one...

Anyway, who the hell would invite Fallwell to give opening remarks, closing remarks, prayer breakfast duties, emcee duties, DJ duties or any other kind of public-appearance role without expecting it to blow up in their face? That Fallwell is a radical is fairly old news, even to Republicans.
posted by dhoyt at 9:12 AM on July 30, 2004

Hm. Who knew he was gay?


posted by Peter H at 9:18 AM on July 30, 2004

christ midas, can't you just admit this is just a fuck up waiting to happen and move on. Sharpton manages to represent a significant portion of the population - even if he is an opportunistic ass-hat.

on preview: peter, you just made me spray coffee onto my keyboard, thanks
posted by jmgorman at 9:19 AM on July 30, 2004

Oh please Midas, if Sharpton had said any of those statements about terrorists and the US deserving the attacks its gotten the media would have crucified him. Not to mention the guy ran for president and is a good speaker thus giving him a slot at the convention is hardly comparable to Falwell's position as fundie nutjob with his completely out of the mainstream comments. The same mainstream you and your GOP buddies accuse the dems of being out of.
posted by skallas at 9:20 AM on July 30, 2004

I have to agree that Sharpton is a buffoon of the first order, but his public appearances and speeches are not nearly as cringe-worthy as they once were. Fallwell's seem to be moreso by the day, esp since Sept 11th.
posted by dhoyt at 9:23 AM on July 30, 2004

Sharpton manages to represent a significant portion of the population - even if he is an opportunistic ass-hat.

Replace 'Sharpton' with 'Falwell' in that sentence and it is still a true statement.
posted by msacheson at 9:28 AM on July 30, 2004

Anyway, who the hell would invite Fallwell to give opening remarks, closing remarks, prayer breakfast duties, emcee duties, DJ duties or any other kind of public-appearance role without expecting it to blow up in their face?

I don't know, dhoyt, I heard Falwell packs a motherfucking dance floor
posted by Peter H at 9:31 AM on July 30, 2004

Damnit for past and active tense grammar.
I meant to say I hear instead of I heard - which is to say I continue to hear that Falwell packs a motherfucking dance floor.
posted by Peter H at 9:36 AM on July 30, 2004

Oddly, there seemed to be no one here examining Sharpton's "contradictions" in depth

midas, if it's any comfort, #mefites can attest to my foaming at the mouth and ranting maniacally during the length and breadth of the sharpton speech.
WHAT.
THE.
FUCK.
DNC?
posted by quonsar at 9:36 AM on July 30, 2004

Midas, you're right in one respect - Falwell's inclusion is a move designed to mollify the base - though he doesn't get a prime-time spot because the GOP is more frightened that he will frighten your "normal" Americans than the Democrats were worried that Sharpton would be seen to define them; both parties have their loonies - but in the GOP, the loonies wield far more clout.
posted by kgasmart at 9:47 AM on July 30, 2004

Oh great, Sharpton vs. Falwell, this is gonna degenerate into.

"My sleazy asshat is better than your sleazy asshat!"
posted by jonmc at 9:47 AM on July 30, 2004

People keep saying that there is no difference between the parties. Falwell proves that there is.
posted by nyxxxx at 9:49 AM on July 30, 2004

I attest!
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 1:04 PM on July 30, 2004

"My sleazy asshat is better than your sleazy asshat!"

these things are most entertaining when allowed to develop naturally, jonmc. stop trying to rush it!
posted by quonsar at 1:08 PM on July 30, 2004

So the defense of Falwell is that he speaks to some core constituency. Which means that the republicans are actively seeking the 'god hates fags' vote, all you need to know about that soon-to-be obsolete party right there.
posted by Space Coyote at 1:11 PM on July 30, 2004

There's not really much defense to giving either Fallwell or Sharpton a spotlight at the convention. Both men are opportunistic, cynical, conniving, hate-mongering demagogic media-whores.

The only difference as I see it is this: there's a contingent (a minority, but a significant one) in the GOP who are down with Fallwell's program, whereas Sharpton was brought in as a cynical sop to the black vote (a mistaken one, IMHO, since he's far from universally embraced and his reputation esp. on the East Coast is so awful and fraught with memeories of deliberate racial polarization) and because he would have raised a stink if he wasn't invited to speak. And with a race this tight, we Dems can't afford a stink even a manufactured one.
posted by jonmc at 1:28 PM on July 30, 2004

hmmm... let's hear it from Bill Moyers:

"I also appreciate Jim because he knows there are different kinds of Baptists in America. Not everyone knows this, and it can be confusing when a young reporter, learning you are a Baptist, asks: “Oh, like Jerry Falwell?” I reminded her that there are more than two dozen varieties of Baptist in this country. Pat Robertson is a Baptist. So is Bill Clinton. Al Gore is a Baptist. So is Trent Lott. Jesse Jackson is a Baptist. So is Jesse Helms. Richard Gephardt is a Baptist. So is Newt Gingrich. Small wonder Baptists have been compared to jalapeno peppers: one or two makes for a tasty dish, but a whole bunch of them together in one place brings tears to your eyes."

_________

'cause of course Al Sharpton (who didn't just give an opening prayer, but was awarded a significant speaking spot) is so mainstream America

heh. why doesn't he just stick to mopping the floors, emptying the wastebaskets, stuff like that, I wonder... how dare he "be awarded a significant speaking spot".

I can only refer to the priceless RudePundit:

Over on MSNBC, Chris Matthews, who always looks as if he's just been fucked in the ass and has to take a giant dump, interrupted Sharpton's speech (not even carried by Fox, of course, but carried in full on CNN) to puncture everyone's balloon by saying that Sharpton "began" his career on "a lie," before bringing up the ever-lingering Tawana Brawely debacle: "You have to remember that this man basically began his career, as charming as he is, on a lie. He said that a young woman in New York had been raped and beat up by police. It turns out there was no truth to that story." Then he got Howard Fineman and Doris Kearns Goodwin to get all white and upper middle class on Sharpton. Said Goodwin, "In fact, the yelling in the rally right now is like chalk on a board, a blackboard. It's grating." Aaah, so sweet when the patricians speak. Earlier, it was almost as fun when the only speakers they could think to compare Sharpton to were Jesse Jackson and Barack Obama.
Now, do you think when George Bush speaks, Matthews has ever said, "You have to remember that this man began his career, as charming as he is, on business failures. He's had to get bailed out of every business venture he's ever stuck his fingers into"?
posted by matteo at 1:38 PM on July 30, 2004

There is this difference between Shapton and Falwell: Falwell has remained what he always was and what he will continue to be. Sharpton has evolved over the years and from being a rather sillly guy (Tanwana Brawley) he is now a soldier in the Democratic army--his speech gave the essential suuport which the Dems have given the black in this country over recent years, and his appealing to blacks was to have them support what he felt was a ticket and party that would be both good for blacks and for non-blacks. He is, by many pros, a funny and gifted speaker...Falwell is a reminder, always, of the Bush placing religion (foisting) upon America; Sharpton, a reverend, puts his emphasis upon that which is needed by all peoples: eduation, jobs, medical help etc...ask not what god can do for god.
posted by Postroad at 1:42 PM on July 30, 2004

The other thing, of course, is that Sharpton is a really good speaker. I mean, I disagree with the man on almost every issue I'm aware he has a position on, but he throws out some really good lines in his speeches. Falwell's just a hack preacher.
posted by Pseudoephedrine at 1:44 PM on July 30, 2004

Both men are opportunistic, cynical, conniving, hate-mongering demagogic media-whores.

as opposed to your run-of-the-mill politicians right? who are famously non-opportunistic, non-cynical, kind, loving, brave modest people
;)

why single out poor Al? he's a hustler, of course. just like Bush, Kerry, etc, etc. only he didn't have the good fortune to have a nice comfy start in a good family with connections, with powerful friends and expensive college education. Sharpton's brand of hustlerdom is, simply, less polite and clean. it's more bare-knuckled, louder.

Midas, I'll bet you a hundred Monopoly dollars that, had Sharpton been born in a rich & powerful & connected man's house like W did, he wouldn't have been so unpalatable to you. he would have been a Wall Street Hustler in a good suit and expensive cigar, with a more acceptable (to you) haircut, more presentable manners. same man, better clothes, no need to act so loud.
I'm sure you have enough experience of dealing with well-dressed, soft-spoken bandits to get my point
posted by matteo at 1:51 PM on July 30, 2004

heh. why doesn't he just stick to mopping the floors, emptying the wastebaskets, stuff like that, I wonder... how dare he "be awarded a significant speaking spot".

Cynical strawman, matteo.

It is possible to disapprove of a particular black leader without being racist, you know.


as opposed to your run-of-the-mill politicians right? who are famously non-opportunistic, non-cynical, kind, loving, brave modest people

Whom I've never shied away from criticizing. I, however, see no reason to praise Sharpton with a faint damn. I don't like him, I've said the reasons why. No different than anyother politician.
posted by jonmc at 1:56 PM on July 30, 2004

matteo, for the second time today I wish you had a blog, and I mean that in the best sense, not the GYOBFW sense. I'd read it; and I don't read many.
posted by George_Spiggott at 2:11 PM on July 30, 2004

A somewhat stupid move.

Yet to think, I don't like this anymore than you; the only difference is that I see the Dems as pandering just as much as the Republicans--but without a serious approach to National Defense.
posted by ParisParamus at 2:14 PM on July 30, 2004

If Falwell has a match on the left-end of things then its more with a nut of his calibre like LaRouche than Sharpton. We know Sharpton is a hustler, but Falwell is sincere in his hate the same way LaRouche is sincere in his conspiracy theories. And like Matteo said, if Sharpton had been born a patrician his style would be seen as "hands on," "straight-talk," etc and probably a luminary in the GOP.

Again, we're straying from the important issues here:

Why is this fucker getting a free pass on saying Americans deserve to be killed by terrorists?

Why are the democrats criticized as being "out of the mainstream" when characters like Falwell are invited to open up ceremonies?
posted by skallas at 2:31 PM on July 30, 2004

Bah! Everyone knows LaRouche's Children of Satan II: The Beastmen is a modern day political classic - a true manifesto for our times!

And yeah, Falwell is a king asshole.
posted by Pseudoephedrine at 2:36 PM on July 30, 2004

Didn't you hear that Kerry said, "God bless america," and something else where he invoked God at the DNC. WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE OVER THAT?!?!?!?
posted by jmd82 at 2:46 PM on July 30, 2004

I think the main difference is that Falwell isn't even a politician. He's an evangelist. Opening up with a prayer. There is something very disturbing about how much this administration embraces religion. It brings a kind of occult feel to the whole thing. And the millions of hypnotized followers who don't question repeated known truths (like business relationships with terrorists, that this administration profits directly from Iraq, that lies are told almost now in a redundant loop) baffle me. That they don't question any of this really does make you consider that they are hypnotized. Can someone here on this board who is planning on voting for Bush please tell me why you are, despite years of repeated (and repeated and REPEATED) facts about business relationships with terrorists and other bullshit, can you please tell me why you are voting for him? I'm just at a point where I have to think you're all under a spell and Fox news is your hypnotist.
posted by Peter H at 2:47 PM on July 30, 2004

There's not really much defense to giving either Fallwell or Sharpton a spotlight at the convention.

Except that one of them ran for president and managed to earn 27 delegate votes during the primaries before the convention (more than Kucinich, Gephardt, Lieberman and Braun combined) ... and one of them just likes to control politicians from the sidelines (or from the pulpit rather).
posted by Orb at 3:10 PM on July 30, 2004

jmd82: Didn't you hear that Kerry said, "God bless america," and something else where he invoked God at the DNC. WHERE'S THE OUTRAGE OVER THAT?!?!?!?

Guess you weren't really listening:

"And let me say it plainly: in that cause, and in this campaign, we welcome people of faith. America is not us and them. I think of what Ron Reagan said of his father a few weeks ago, and I want to say this to you tonight: I don't wear my own faith on my sleeve. But faith has given me values and hope to live by, from Vietnam to this day, from Sunday to Sunday. I don't want to claim that God is on our side. As Abraham Lincoln told us, I want to pray humbly that we are on God's side. And whatever our faith, one belief should bind us all: The measure of our character is our willingness to give of ourselves for others and for our country."
posted by SteveInMaine at 3:58 PM on July 30, 2004

Aw come on. Could Falwell ever get on this show? Except as a recurring spoof I mean.
posted by Cedric at 4:00 PM on July 30, 2004

Peter, i think they don't want to have to think about any of those things, or about much at all...they're content with whatever bs is fed them (i think as a whole we're brought up to be that way--consumers, but not necessarily educated ones)
posted by amberglow at 4:38 PM on July 30, 2004

i thought Sharpton's speech was pretty good ... mostly empty rhetoric, but ain't they all? and he mentioned God less than Edwards, Kerry, or Obama.

can quonsar or MM explain more about his "contradictions?"

SteveInMaine, that was actually my favorite part of Kerry's speech. what he's basically saying is that God is an imaginary construct that we use to guide our human-created moral system. in other words, God doesn't matter, but go ahead and feel free to believe in whatever the hell you want to believe in.

The measure of our character is our willingness to give of ourselves for others and for our country

it was the exact opposite of his "don't play politics with the Constitution" remark, which was weak-ass shit. in that case, he needed to be direct, e.g. "gays and lesbians will always be protected in the Kerry administration, etc. etc."

but saying that believing in God is worthless without pissing off 90% of America? pure genius. he might get my vote after all.
posted by mrgrimm at 4:57 PM on July 30, 2004

Given the variety of faiths in America, why would a Christian (or even a monotheistic) prayer be recited as part of a public political process?

Hell, if the Repubs offered a prayer to Beelzebub and sacrificed the virgin Coulter under black light, everyone I know would switch affiliations.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 4:57 PM on July 30, 2004

by the way, Sharpton's speech - especially the part that he freestyled, was pretty damn good.
posted by tsarfan at 5:09 PM on July 30, 2004

Hell, if the Repubs offered a prayer to Beelzebub and sacrificed the virgin Coulter under black light, everyone I know would switch affiliations.

Not I, said the fly (they'd have to grow hearts and souls for me to even consider switching)
posted by amberglow at 5:12 PM on July 30, 2004

Hey, don't knock a good old fasihoned public sacrifice of the coulter (virgin or no, i know which way I'd lay my bet)
posted by Space Coyote at 5:32 PM on July 30, 2004

Some non-believers hail Ron Reagan Jr.'s speech at the Democratic convention as a political milestone for secularists.
posted by homunculus at 6:13 PM on July 30, 2004

Both sides have their religious loonies. And both sides put them on stage to appeal to the appropriate constituencies.

The appalling thing about this country is that such appearances don't offend more than they appeal to.
posted by rushmc at 6:59 PM on July 30, 2004

that occurred to me too, about ron reagan - he contrasted science with what seemed like a euphemistic way of saying religion at some point, saying we have to move forward with science, not get tied back to the past by its opposite.

and I really liked the lincoln quote in kerry's speech.
posted by mdn at 7:12 PM on July 30, 2004

I remember in 2000 that a tiny bit of light about Dubya was that he was supposedly gay-friendly. He had close aides and advisors who were openly gay, etc. And for a conservative Republican, he seemed to get a lot of gay support.
What a difference 4 years makes! Completely destroy the black vote, the hispanic vote (outside Florida), the science vote, AND the gay vote? It's as if they are trying to self-destruct. If you remember, he didn't exactly win in a landslide four years ago.
posted by sixdifferentways at 7:14 PM on July 30, 2004

I remember in 2000 that a tiny bit of light about Dubya was that he was supposedly gay-friendly.

I remember that, too, though I remember thinking that the Log-cabin Republicans were sugar coating Bush with their own syrup of wishful thinking. Bush may not be homophobic at all. He may just be willing to sell gay people out.

Bush reminds me of my Uncle Rocky. My father always held out hope that his red-neck racist brother-in-law wasn't all bad. One day my drunken uncle confessed to my dad that he knew black people were as good as white people-- he just didn't want his grand-children to be mopping floors. That was the moment my dad decided he hated his brother-in-law.

Bush is a lot like my uncle-- he might not be all bad, but he's perfectly willing stoop as low as he has to make sure the playing-field always favors his half-witted myrmidons and feebleminded children.
posted by gesamtkunstwerk at 7:45 PM on July 30, 2004

Perhaps it should be mentioned that Sharpton ran as a Democratic candidate for the highest office in the land and -- as a matter of unity and inclusivity -- deserved to speak, just like Kucinich and Carol Moseley-Braun deserved to speak?

Frankly, it's great that he spoke, and I think his message will be a positive one to his constituency. It's the difference between inclusivity and exclusivity.

Ironically, by highlighting the rare centrists in the party -- none of whom are members of the Bush administration -- the Republicans are embracing exclusivity. They don't want to publically embrace the racists, religious zealots, and corporate shills who support them... that's what closed-door meetings and late-night phone calls are for, after all.

But this post isn't about Sharpton. This post is about Falwell and the appropriateness of allowing someone to speak on behalf of the Republicans who thought that America deserved 9/11.

All I can say is that I personally don't think Americans didn't deserve 9/11 -- at least for the reasons Falwell stated -- and that certainly those who lost family and loved ones on 9/11 didn't deserve their loss. I don't know if there is a God, but if he exists, I think it's safe to say that he hasn't turned his back on them.

For what he has said, Falwell is clearly the wrong person to open up a major party convention anywhere, much less in NYC. For such an unamerican display of callousness in the face of a monumental tragedy, the families of the victims of 9/11 should ride him out of their town, tarred and feathered.

Just for once, I would like to see a president ask his humble local pastor from his hometown to precide over such ceremonies. Have them sworn in by the same person who married them, or who baptized their children. All prayers said and all oaths given would have a far deeper significance as a result.
posted by insomnia_lj at 8:10 PM on July 30, 2004

his humble local pastor from his hometown...

They usually don't have those (altho Clinton did). Would Bush's be from Yale? Not quite the image they try to present of him.
posted by amberglow at 8:22 PM on July 30, 2004

I can't wait for the part of the prayer where he blames 9/11 on gays and feminists.
posted by clevershark at 9:03 PM on July 30, 2004

SteveInMaine: Guess you weren't really listening
No, I actually did watch the DNC. I honestly don't rememeber what night it was, but I clearly recall him having God bless America at the end of the speech. I could care less if politcians do as such, but hypocracy is rampid on both sides of the spectrum.
posted by jmd82 at 9:18 PM on July 30, 2004

QUICK, switch to a mock naval battle before it is to late.
what are theeyyyyyy THiNKING. huh. can someone open the hood on that lantern for me here. JIMMINY CRICKET this is not funny.

Frankly, it's great that he spoke, and I think his message will be a positive one to his constituency. It's the difference between inclusivity and exclusivity.

WHAT WERE THEY THINKING. i mean that hair belonged on Buick and that rhetoric, like home-spun soapbox jumpin jesus hour with reverand Al and the decons three.
posted by clavdivs at 9:42 PM on July 30, 2004

If you can catch a repeat of Thursday's The Daily Show (just watched it on TiVo since it crossed over with Kerry's speech last night), Stewart skewers Matthews & Co. over the Sharpton criticism. It's pretty hilarious.
posted by sixdifferentways at 10:02 PM on July 30, 2004

No, I actually did watch the DNC. I honestly don't rememeber what night it was, but I clearly recall him having God bless America at the end of the speech. I could care less if politcians do as such, but hypocracy is rampid on both sides of the spectrum.

I think some of the speakers did indeed end with a "God Bless America", but c'mon - is anyone really going to argue that is the equivalent of having Jerry Falwell open your convention and thus is hypocritical? It's like saying a slingshot and an atom bomb are the same thing, since they're both "weapons."

_{actually I don't think there is any restriction on religion at the conventions per se, since they are run by private organisations and are not part of the government . . . the question is more what type of message do they want to send}
posted by sixdifferentways at 10:08 PM on July 30, 2004

I see the Dems as pandering just as much as the Republicans--but without a serious approach to National Defense.

Number of coutries that pose no threat to us attacked: 2
Net effect on domestic security: Rapid plunge

Smell the safety, PP. No, wait, pull my finger first.
posted by squirrel at 7:56 AM on July 31, 2004

SteveInMaine: Guess you weren't really listening
No, I actually did watch the DNC. I honestly don't rememeber what night it was, but I clearly recall him having God bless America at the end of the speech. I could care less if politcians do as such, but hypocracy is rampid on both sides of the spectrum.

Yes, everyone mentions god - but the dems never mentioned Jesus specifically, never claimed that they were following god's path or anything like that - the lincoln quote there is basically saying, no one knows for sure what god wants - all we can do is do our best. And there was another quote about how dems wouldn't use faith as a wedge to divide us, which I thought was also a good stab at the prez & his faith based policies. And Ron Reagan set up a choice between science and unfounded belief and chose science, and kerry made a point of choosing science in the stem cell debate, so it seems to me that there is a difference between the parties on this issue. Just because they say "god bless the united states" at the end doesn't equate them with the fundies.
posted by mdn at 8:40 AM on July 31, 2004

I've also heard them say "Bless You" when people sneeze! Those bastards!
posted by skallas at 9:03 AM on July 31, 2004

I wrote this - as a part of another of my signature godawfully long comments - for the "Global Warmingh/UK Bird declines" thread but noticed it kind of fit nicely here as well.

It's about the rejection - by many American religious fundamentalists - of any sort of science which contradicts their religious tenets.

I suggest that they should really take it all of the way and dispense with technological civilization altogether - they could don furs, hunt with spears, and live as Christian tribalistic hunter-gatherers....on big ranches or preserves. Maybe Disney could run some of them and charge admission, so that all of the industrial age humans could gawk at them - the new Noble Savages - from a respectable distance through telescopes or by binoculars from the back of Land Rovers bouncing across the plains :

"Ideological or Religious Luddism, it could be called - and the nations of the world could set aside areas for these hardy and committed folk who would - in exchange for their renunciation of their televisions, cars, computers, microwave ovens and every object, artifact and tidbit - except, perhaps for their dental fillings and replacement body parts such as synthetic knees - which could not be produced by stone age technology - would be allowed to don furs and return to the simple, healthy, holistic, nasty, brutish, short, and bracing life of hunter-gatherer, as the new Noble Savages.

I think they could, also, be allowed a small quantity of Bibles and religious tracts"
posted by troutfishing at 9:18 AM on July 31, 2004

has anyone actually got confirmation of this? I tried googling all over, and can't find a thing, beyond satire. I did learn he's now a pundit/columnist for Newsmax (which is fitting).
posted by amberglow at 10:28 AM on July 31, 2004

I guess Rev Moon was busy.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 8:32 AM PST on July 30

As the official self appointed orator against fundamentalists here in our MeFi community, I would like to take this opportunity to award PST "best post" of the thread.

Jerry Falwell can go Cheney himself until his nose bleeds. And that goes to all his rePublican buddies in a double dose.
posted by nofundy at 2:58 PM on July 31, 2004

has anyone actually got confirmation of this? I tried googling all over, and can't find a thing, beyond satire.

oop, good point - the source says "my friend mel" told me that jerry told his congregation... but when you look around at the news on the convention, it's all about how they're "hiding" their real conservatives and playing to the center by putting giuliani, ahnold, mccain, etc on prime time... the only line-up that seems to be online is obviously a joke, but maybe mel didn't read past the second line...
posted by mdn at 6:36 PM on July 31, 2004

actually, a really nice lurker sent me an email asking about it : >

(that lineup is hysterical--and creepily real)
posted by amberglow at 6:38 PM on July 31, 2004

God wars
posted by homunculus at 8:19 PM on August 1, 2004

Oddly, there seemed to be no one here examining Sharpton's "contradictions" in depth

If it's a problem for you, MM, why don't YOU do it?

troutfishing: one of my favorite things was reading in my hometown newspaper a few years ago the letters from the public regarding what they thought about cloning and such, and the vast majority of opinion was of the "if God wanted us to clone he would have given us the power to" variety. Well, he DID! I mean, as much as he gave us cars and air conditioning and the transistor and every other use of technology we have today... it's almost like people believe that if something came into this world after they were born it's automatically evil.

homunculus: Great article-- I read it late last night. Would fit well in the Pope thread.
posted by nath at 2:56 PM on August 2, 2004

Update

Apparently the The Dr/Rev will not be in any spotlights.
posted by jaronson at 6:16 PM on August 25, 2004