Phishing for the end

August 17, 2004 1:57 PM

"This site was created with one goal; to create the most comprehensive online archive of information and digital photos of the Coventry Vermont Phish show, August 14th and 15th 2004." Seems odd to think folks went to the trouble of dedicating an entire website to just a single concert, until you learn it was the very last one for Phish.
posted by mathowie (99 comments total)

My partner of ten years, Keith, and I first dated by going on Phish tour together in 1994. The music back then was very fresh, charging into new territory all the time, and going far beyond the usual riff-o-matic repetition of most jambands. I got to interview Trey on that tour (sorry for the self-link!) and found him extremely bright, earnest, and articulate. I could hear the band's inspiration-level slide downward after 1997 or so, and I respect them for being honest enough with themselves to put a good thing to rest when its time had passed. Though I hardly ever listen to Phish anymore, they were a brave and bold project in their time, and I wish them -- and all their fans -- well.
posted by digaman at 2:32 PM on August 17, 2004

My brother and his wife just got back from the show. In spite of the mud and traffic and waiting, they were ecstatic.

As easy as it may seem to mock either the band or the fans (as I'm sure many will below this comment), Phish were a musical force to be reckoned with. I can think of very few acts who maintained such a sense of purpose and integrity for their entire career.

Watching the IT special on PBS last night, I was blown away by Trey's skills on the guitar. His solos were transcendent.
posted by erebora at 2:44 PM on August 17, 2004

It's been more than half an hour, so I'll take the bait. (He said, seeing that no one had commented yet.)

I hadn't seen Phish live since a show on their Hampton Coliseum run in Nov. 1995, but I bought a ticket for one of the simulcasts. The video and sound quality were amazing. Just from that it was easy to forget I was sitting in a 250-seat theater staring at a screen, but then out came the glowsticks. In the theater.

There's been a lot of talk in the rec.music.phish Usenet newsgroup about the level of Trey's fucked-upedness, which is sad but probably true from what I saw and heard.

(I will beat someone to the punch by saying "Dirty hippies use drugs. Film at 11.")

I'm not sure I'm glad I went. It was a unique experience, but the band's fatigue and possibly other issues really showed. I enjoyed them more ten years ago.

Vermont newspaper the Burlington Free Press has a special section devoted to their local heroes.
posted by emelenjr at 2:46 PM on August 17, 2004

Good riddance.
posted by xmutex at 2:48 PM on August 17, 2004

xmutex, you bubble-bursting wag....
posted by dhoyt at 3:06 PM on August 17, 2004

...until you learn it was the very last one for Phish.

Thank god. Sadly, it only took a couple of ridiculous Phish fans to totally ruin the band for me. I've always been able to recognize their musciality, talent and creativity... and appreciated it most of the time. But if I have to hear one more stoner voice pipe up with something along the lines of... "Dude, let's shift gears for a sec and pop in some Nashville '92. This is from the night they opened with that amaaaaazing medley from A Picture of Nectar. I almost died that night, man. I can make you a copy if you want".

Arrrrrrrrrgh! Your "open mind" has managed to slam itself shut around one over-sized tape case full of crappy bootlegs. Yoo hoo? {snap, snap}
posted by Witty at 3:10 PM on August 17, 2004

sadly, it only took a couple of ridiculous Phish fans to totally ruin the band for me

Yeah, I have the same problem with rap, country, opera, jazz, classical, Indian music, and rock and roll.

Luckily, I have not yet met a ridiculous fan of Balinese gamelan music.
posted by digaman at 3:13 PM on August 17, 2004

My friends and I did the last mini-tour from Great Woods to Camden to Coventry, and it was a tremendous week. The Great Woods shows were musically more even, but Coventry was emotionally profound. The band did its best to demystify a lot of the music and gave old songs added meaning by revealing some of the stories behind them, or changing the lyrics for the final version. The was a lot of crying onstage and off. The band hid nothing, and this 65,000 people festival felt more intimate than anybody who wasn't there can imagine.

When we arrived, it didn't even look like we were going to make it in. We had tickets, but just when we'd gotten to the end of the miles-long traffic jam, the announcement came that due to mud, everybody who wasn't at the exit yet would have to turn around. We were shut out.

People abandoned their cars and walked, and super-friendly Vermonters drove them closer on four-wheelers and pickup trucks. We were worried about rioting, but the band decided to not turn people away (and the police didn't ticket or tow), and everybody who was willing to walk got in. We were even luckier: accidentally, we met a kind soul who knew the mother of bassist Mike Gordon and let us follow him to her hotel. Marjorie Minkin turned out to be an incredibily generous woman who invited us for breakfast, picked up another stranded girl who had been ditched by her drunken friends, and proceeded to take us all down backroads into the show. Without a fuss, she dug in her handbag for some extra laminates and got us all backstage. I camped with other band family members, enjoyed $1 micro brews and watched from an on-stage platform as Trey and Mike climbed on the rocks and played the final "Harry Hood."

There's no doubt in my mind that if Coventry was possible--if Phish was possible--anything is. Over the last decade, Phish has given me more than I can ever explain, and I have nothing but gratitude and love for them.
posted by muckster at 3:29 PM on August 17, 2004

So, assuming this phenomenon was not the music as much as something to do for this crowd, who wants to place bets on the next Phish?

I'll take String Cheese Incident maybe?
posted by Stan Chin at 3:31 PM on August 17, 2004

Sorry digaman... I meant, PHISH RULES!
posted by Witty at 3:31 PM on August 17, 2004

I don't care who's next (although I would not be upset if the Aquarium Rescue Unit got back together, with or without Col. Bruce Hampton) and I haven't really kept up with the current jam band scene to guess who could be next. Maybe it's owing to experiencing so much Phish in one sitting on Sunday, but I don't have the patience to listen to any of it anymore. I'm jammed out.
posted by emelenjr at 4:14 PM on August 17, 2004

String Cheese Incident may be the "next Phish" in the minds of some of its fans or lazy journalists, but I haven't heard one minute of their music that sounded truly original to me. Because I've written quite a bit about the Dead over the years, certain "cheeseheads" have made it their mission to make me see the light by playing tapes for me. When I say I have never really liked the band, the sequence is always the same:

Well, when did you hear them last?

A couple of years ago.

Oh, well, they've gotten SO MUCH BETTER since then!

And then the tape is played, and I listen, and I come to the same conclusion.

SCI also committed something like a musical sin in my mind -- they play a cover of Wayne Shorter's "Footprints," a sublime tune, but they take it out of its idiosyncratic time-signature and play it in straight 4/4 or whatever, which is like taking the garlic out of marinara sauce. What's left tastes like ketchup. Why bother?

And frankly, I don't think the world needs a "next Phish." It needs something terrifyingly new and beautiful, just as the Dead were terrifyingly new and beautiful when they came on the scene.

What saved Phish from seeming like a Dead-echo to me was their musical originality and total professionalism. They rehearsed like mad, and you could hear it in the music.
posted by digaman at 4:17 PM on August 17, 2004

There's no doubt in my mind that if Coventry was possible--if Phish was possible--anything is.
posted by muckster at 5:29 PM CST on August 17

muckster,
Was that a text book example of hyper-aggrandizement or what?

So, since a group of musicians managed to make a copycat band and throw a concert in the field, anything is possible? Cold fusion? World peace?


Over the last decade, Phish has given me more than I can ever explain, and I have nothing but gratitude and love for them.
posted by muckster at 5:29 PM CST on August 17

What did they give you? Some music to get stoned to? A scene to join in order to give your life meaning?

You reminded me of the guy I saw in Paris at Jim Morrison's grave who said he quit his job and sold all his belongings and now spends all day sitting at Jim Morrison's grave. According to that guy it was "because Jim was such an unparalleled poetic genius that spoke to [his] soul."


Phish was nothing special, but the pathetic attempt to make gods out of them as a justification for a bunch of wannabe-hippie druggies really tarnishes their music cred. Of course, this is all coming from someone who was a moderate fan of the Dead's music, and finds all of the wanna-be Dead bands (and the ever more revolting, wanna-be Deadheads) a pathetic attempt to capture something they missed out on.

Phish was all about a 'scene'---it was never about the music. Some people choose the Goth scene. Some choose the country. Some live da hip-hop lifestyle. And some choose to be Dead Spread Phishheads: not shower, do a lot of shrooms, and listen to bands who jam but can't write songs while claiming that the bands are the "geniuses of our time" and a major cultural revolution.

Oops, what I meant to say was:
PHISH IS TEH GREATEST MUSICIANS EVAR !!11!1!!!!!!
posted by Seth at 4:32 PM on August 17, 2004

I very much liked the idea of the site as a monument to one concert-- so that you could get multiple stories/photographs/perspectives on the event-- but a lot of the galleries contain photographs from other Phish shows, so the site isn't quite as good in execution as in intent, perhaps.

I've never knowingly heard a single note of Phish. Where should I start? Is this 'Phish' something that you need to be part of modern-day hippiedom to know about?
posted by jokeefe at 4:33 PM on August 17, 2004

I went to IT last year and had a blast and had the chance to go Coventry this year. I declined. While IT was crazy exhausting fun, I think I like smaller overnight campout concerts better; Camp Bisco two years ago was just a few thousand people on a hilltop farm in Pennsylvania grooving to the Disco Biscuits and being surprisingly well-behaved. Really nice.

So with that in mind, while my pick for "the next Phish" bigtime jamband would be the Disco Biscuits or maybe moe, I think it may be a while until a clear favorite emerges, and that's probably for the best. We need more music-for-music's-sake, not more who-are-we-gonna-jam-to-this-summer-and-will-their-tour-have-a-huge-scene-attached-to-it.
posted by Asparagirl at 4:36 PM on August 17, 2004

Over the last decade, Phish has given me more than I can ever explain, and I have nothing but gratitude and love for them.
posted by muckster at 5:29 PM CST on August 17

What did they give you? Some music to get stoned to? A scene to join in order to give your life meaning?

And what's wrong with that? I'd say that's a substantially better way to find meaning in one's life than joining in with mad nationalists, right-wing 'patriots', fundamentalists of all stripes, militarism, etc. We all need something to gather round, whether Mefi or the music we love. And you can't say that music doesn't enrich people's lives and make them happy. So what's the problem with that?

(But if Phish sounded like the Dead, then maybe I personally will pass. I never have and never will like the Grateful Dead.)
posted by jokeefe at 4:40 PM on August 17, 2004

I heart Phish. And I only caught on to them this year. Dammit.

I don't think that "jam band" really quite describes the Dead and Phish and the like. It's not so much that they jam, as it is that the live show is a different creature than their albums. 'struth that I've been to neither, live, but I've been to a couple of pop/rock concerts, and those shows were merely their albums with flashy lights and shit. As I understand it, a Dead/Phish/"jam" show is nearly completely unlike their album releases.

I also heart Grateful Dead, JJ Cale, and Modest Mouse at this time.
posted by five fresh fish at 4:40 PM on August 17, 2004

Also, what makes the jam band concerts special is the sense of community. The rock/pop bands I've attended (admittedly very few) were... anonymous. Everyone was about as polite and friendly as in, say, a movie theatre. Whereas what I see in the jam band photos is a community that's open and sharing and loving, rather more like Burning Man.

Or church, for that matter.
posted by five fresh fish at 4:43 PM on August 17, 2004

So does this mean I'm not going to get any more bogus emails from "eBay" or "CitiBank"?
I am so disappointed StanChin didn't bring this up
posted by wendell at 4:53 PM on August 17, 2004

I can understand your disdain for Phish, Seth, as it's not uncommon for Dead fans and Phish fans to disagree (I appreciated the Dead to a degree before hearing Phish for the first time. Went to see them in 1994 and was unimpressed with the sluggishness compared to the energized Phish music from the same era. But I'm glad I got to see them while Jerry was alive and before Joan fucking Osborne joined the band.) Sure, with Phish there were drugs involved and their fan base basically developed from the stoner crowd they all hung out with, but I don't see how you can deny that all four of those guys were serious musicians from the start. Maybe not the best songwriters or lyricists, but they're incredible musicians. I think, anyway.

Jokeefe, the bands may share the same kind of crowds and the tendency to frequently take their live performances in unpredictable directions, but the similarities end there. As for where to start with Phish, I'd recommend Billy Breathes as one of their most accessible albums. Hit Livephish.com or Archive.org's music library if you're adventurous.
posted by emelenjr at 4:59 PM on August 17, 2004

Seth, while it probably feels really badass and tough-minded to trash these "naive" latter-day jamband fans, you really oughta find out more about the music before doing so. Phish wasn't "copycat" anything musically -- the Dead never performed intricate through-composed suites like "You Enjoy Myself" and "Divided Sky," which formed a large part of what Phish were about. You need to do a little more homework before mounting that high horse.
posted by digaman at 4:59 PM on August 17, 2004

I second the recommendation of Billy Breathes as a doorway in, and also the amazing "Stash" or "Harry Hood" from A Live One.
posted by digaman at 5:02 PM on August 17, 2004

So with that in mind, while my pick for "the next Phish" bigtime jamband would be the Disco Biscuits or maybe moe, I think it may be a while until a clear favorite emerges, and that's probably for the best.

Widespread Panic?
posted by dr_dank at 5:04 PM on August 17, 2004

I just wish people could've picked up their trash. In the paper (Free Press) they showed a picture of the cars parked on the highway with all this trash strewn about. The least you can do for the area is pick up your trash. NE Kingdom doesn't have the money or manpower to clean up after you!

ok, off my soapbox.
posted by evening at 5:06 PM on August 17, 2004

appreciated the Dead to a degree before hearing Phish for the first time. Went to see them in 1994 and was unimpressed with the sluggishness

The Dead truly did suck after mid-1991 or so, with a couple of jams here and there that had some power. But it was pretty much over by then.
posted by digaman at 5:07 PM on August 17, 2004

As I stated before, their musicianship, and consequently, their significance is tarnished by the pathetic sychophants who want to argue that Phish is teh greatest evar or original or even just different than the rest. The reason why it is a joke is because the fans are the fan of the scene. So when these brain dead shroomed out pigpens speak as if Phish is God, then it prevents observers from objectively gauging the musical ability of the band.

The guys can play some instruments. But that is about it, which is why they are jam band. Songwriting? Phish couldn't write their way out of a nutsack (/cartman). Be instrumental. Instrumentalists can be great. But don't pretend like you can write a song when the song exists merely as a pretext for a 12 minute jam using things like vaccum cleaners and such. I think Phish catered to their stoned out fans, and, as such, were limited as musicians.

Hopefully, for the sake of the artists, the band members can leave behind that wretched scene and grow musically.
posted by Seth at 5:07 PM on August 17, 2004

People worshipped John Coltrane. There's even a church named after him in San Francisco, with icons of him as a saint with his horn breathing fire.

Another musician whose work was made utterly disposably by sycophantic fans, eh?
posted by digaman at 5:11 PM on August 17, 2004

And then there was the Beatles. They could have turned out to be such a good band until all those screaming "Beatlemaniacs" made them irrelevant.
posted by digaman at 5:13 PM on August 17, 2004

The differences between the Beatles/Coltrane and Phish is that the former actually had revolutionary talent. The latter is merely a poor copycat band who are good at playing their instruments.

If you are suggesting that the three are comparable, then that says about all we need to know about the sycophantic stoned out fans of Phish.
posted by Seth at 5:18 PM on August 17, 2004

Catch 22, digaman! Seth's sure showed you!
posted by muckster at 5:20 PM on August 17, 2004

In the spirit of this weekend, if any mefite is curious about Phish, drop me a line and I'll send you some.
posted by muckster at 5:23 PM on August 17, 2004

Seth, you're lumping all the fans of that band into one group, which is a) ignorant and b) not fair at all. I know I shouldn't feed you, but come on.

To tell you the truth, I feel pretty much the same as you do about the drugged-out tour rats, the frat boys who don't know much about the music but know they'll be able to score some pot pretty easily, and the fans who obsessively keep track of setlists and statistics for each song played and such, but that whole "scene"—primarily the vending (and other activities) going on in the parking lots, etc.—was never the thing that lured (sorry) me into liking Phish.
posted by emelenjr at 5:29 PM on August 17, 2004

Come on, guys. You're responding to Seth.

Think about that.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:43 PM on August 17, 2004

I've been to maybe five Phish shows, the last being one of those same Hampton Coliseum ones in '95 mentioned above. I got tired of Phish around that time, which seemed to be just when their fans started to get really annoying. But who gives a shit about the fans? Everyone's got stupid fans. Most fans are stupid.

Phish was a cool band. They did interesting things musically, and a lot of their stuff is still quite enjoyable to listen to. Some of it's crap, of course. But some of it always was.

They also put on a good live show. They had an excellent sense of the crowd, and could transition smoothly from raucous rock anthem to noodling jazz exploration without (generally) losing anyone.

As for the much-touted "sense of community" about their shows, I have no idea what that's even supposed to mean. I never saw anything like that. It was a bunch of kids getting stoned and listening to music. I didn't see any difference whatsoever between Phish crowds and the Lollapalooza crowds, or the crowds for just about any alt-rock band of the era. Maybe as the band got less interesting the crowds got more "community," and I missed all of those. But frankly I doubt it.

So they weren't trash, and they ain't gods. They haven't done anything worthwhile in a long time, and it's a good idea that they pack it in now while they all have some hope of going on to find new voices. They did add some enjoyment to my life, and Phish was the soundtrack to some good times. I imagine it's the same for a lot of other people. Adios Phish. Here's hoping you don't come back for a "we need money" tour in fifteen years.
posted by rusty at 6:46 PM on August 17, 2004

PhishPhilter
posted by jonmc at 6:49 PM on August 17, 2004

until you learn it was the very last one for Phish.

Hah! We've heard that before...
posted by eustacescrubb at 6:50 PM on August 17, 2004

In honor of 2nd break-up of Phish, MeFi User # 13258 will now be known as phive phresh phish.
posted by eustacescrubb at 6:52 PM on August 17, 2004

Seth:

Foam
Guyute
Reba
Divided Sky
It's Ice
Stash
The Curtain
I am Hydrogen
All Things Reconsidered
Slave to the Traffic Light
Fluffhead
Oh Kee Pa Ceremony
My Friend, My Friend
Weigh
The Man who Stepped into Yesterday

All composition, all well done, possibly some of the best composition done (outside of the jazz and classical worlds) in the late 80's / early 90's. The improvisational things were spectacular at times, boring at others, but the jams - while a fun and occasionally interesting sideshow, were never what made phish great. What made them great was the composition, and the willingness to compose outside of the 4/4 3.5 minute rock song standard format.

Take Guyute for example, go download it - try and count it. Betcha ya can't.

I'll save you the effort even - it starts in 21/8ths, drops 3/8ths after the first verse into 18/8th's back to 21/8ths to 4/4, changes keys a couple times, has a tempo shift, switches to 2/4 to 5/4 back to c to 15/8 to 12/8 to 21/8 to finish the song.

And they executed it flawlessly on stage (ok maybe not everytime, but more often than not) time after time.

Name me a band that writes and plays a wide variety of musical styles, well, with interesting tempo shifts, interesting key changes, executes on stage, and has a care-free attitude centered around having fun - and that's a band I want to go see (previously, they were called phish, we'll see if someone else with as much talent comes along. it will probably be a while.)

To get it right, they practiced and practiced. Then along came wives and children and the like and the most time consuming thing they did, practice, fell by the wayside. So they moved away from executing on the complicated compositions and to having fun improvising for a while.

Like I said, sometimes it was great, sometimes it was just plain bad, but for a few years it was a new musical direction. As a big jazz fan, and a big phish fan, I can understand a few bad improv sessions, Miles & Coltrane - they both have some real stinkers recorded, so does phish - it's ok, its part of the improv ethic. However, the jams didn't really grow - into new forms nor into new composition, they lost the time to practice, and so they hung 'em up. Wise, not wise? who can say, bands form and disapate all the time, I'm just glad that they formed, played their songs and improvs for us over the course of 21 years, left some great memories and some great music lying around for future generations to dig, ya dig?
posted by kurtosis at 6:52 PM on August 17, 2004

it starts in 21/8ths, drops 3/8ths after the first verse into 18/8th's back to 21/8ths to 4/4, changes keys a couple times, has a tempo shift, switches to 2/4 to 5/4 back to c to 15/8 to 12/8 to 21/8 to finish the song.

And that, my friends, is why many people do not prefer the musical stylings of Phish.
posted by eustacescrubb at 6:54 PM on August 17, 2004

And that, eustacescrubb, is why I went and saw them. Say what you will, but you can never accuse them of being "formulaic."
posted by kurtosis at 6:55 PM on August 17, 2004

kurtosis: I'm counting 7 for every bar all the way through that first section of Guyute before the instrumental section. 21's a multiple of 7, but I don't think you need to keep counting that long. Heh.
posted by emelenjr at 7:12 PM on August 17, 2004

it's scored as 9/8 | 12/8 alternating bars which works out slightly differently than 21/8 or 7/8 for that matter. I was lazy and wrote 21/8 for the sake of ease. The 18/8th section is actually alternating bars of 6/8 | 12/8. i didn't think anyone would actually take the time to listen and too count!
posted by kurtosis at 7:29 PM on August 17, 2004

Nice posts, kurtosis.
posted by digaman at 7:29 PM on August 17, 2004

So, assuming this phenomenon was not the music as much as something to do for this crowd, who wants to place bets on the next Phish?

King Diamond.
posted by solistrato at 7:30 PM on August 17, 2004

I don't know why I find it irritating when someone claims to sell music but is really selling a weekend lifestyle. But it's really, really irritating.

What percentage of Phish fans are Mac users compared to the general population. And what percentage of them drive Saturns?
posted by Mayor Curley at 7:39 PM on August 17, 2004

huh?
posted by muckster at 8:01 PM on August 17, 2004

[in awe of kurtosis's writing]

There seems to be a contingent of people who dislike Phish on principle, rather than the quality of their music.
posted by five fresh fish at 8:24 PM on August 17, 2004

I decided to give Phish a try back in 1994. As a Dead fan, I was starting to worry about Jerry and the future of the band. I've taken great pleasure (though I hope without bumming out non-fans) in being a dedicated follower and really knowing a group's repertoire. It felt like time to audition a new favorite. I'd heard about Phish and decided to give them a try when they came to the University of Delaware for a show that year.

I was only in my mid-30s, but I felt old in that crowd; though not unwelcome. I was suitably impressed by the band, the songs and their jamming, but they won me over with a goofed-out cover of "I wanna Be Like You-oo-oo", from the Jungle Book (a god-awful Disney flick my eldest daughter, then a toddler, was watching over and over and over again).

Ironically, I also saw the second of three shows of the Dead's run in Philly in 1994 that emelenjr mentioned. Jerry was fairly subdued and I noticed that he was using a teleprompter. He was still able to rip, though. The music occasionally rose up again for me. Still does.

Phish is worth a listen or two. Don't let the fans put you off. I enjoyed several of their shows over the years and still play the albums from time to time.

Who will be the next Phish? Let's hope there isn't just one to carry the banner. Bruce Hornsby is still going strong and let us not forget Bela Fleck and the Flecktones!
posted by mmahaffie at 8:25 PM on August 17, 2004

I'm the phurthest thing from a Phish phan (sorry), but I respect what they did musically and am somewhat envious that their audience was treated to something like the Coventry shows and subsequently the commemorative-collaborative website.

One of the coolest shows I've ever experienced was in Washington DC in 1999: Flaming Lips with Cornelius, Robyn Hitchcock, Sebadoh and IQU. If there was a website set up just for that tour, with diaries, fan photos and live footage, I would be a very very happy fan, and would likely feel something communal with all the other people lucky enough to have experienced and documented it.
posted by dhoyt at 8:25 PM on August 17, 2004

For those who don't quite get the Phish thing, here's a giant clue: 1997

I'll never quite understand why when someone syas "this music moves me" others will feel compelled to tell them "well it shouldn't". There's no accounting for taste (or social skills).
posted by Fupped Duck at 8:27 PM on August 17, 2004

Bruce Hornsby is still going strong

*is horrified*
posted by dhoyt at 8:27 PM on August 17, 2004

*is cringing listening to Hornsby's latest album*
But yeah, Bruce still touring a lot and he has a similarly dedicated (Deadicated?) following. Probably owing to his stint as the band's keyboardist for a while after Brent Mydland died.

kurtosis, I take my hat off to you. I don't have the patience to figure out all the time signature changes.

Cheers, mmahaffie. Not only did we both see the Dead at the Spectrum that year, but we were at the same Phish show in Delaware. Heh. I was in college in Maryland at the time, so Newark and Philly were close.
posted by emelenjr at 8:56 PM on August 17, 2004

ah, phish. No other band I've seen could match their ability to get into a groove, and bring the whole room along. I haven't seen them in many years, but the things I learned from them about collective feedback, vibe, and the musical journey are still useful to me today as a dj.
posted by jeffj at 8:59 PM on August 17, 2004

Cheers back atcha emelenjr. That Phish show had horrible sound, but I had a great time. I also remember seeing the UD security folks set up a little "time out" section below the stands I was sitting in; a place to bring kids whose noodle dancing was a bit too al dente. As a new parent at the time, I was struck by how similar the approach was to dealing with a toddler.

I neglected to mention that the Philly Dead show was my lovely wife's first and only Dead show. She wanted to go to one show to see just what the fuss (my fuss) was all about. One was enough for her, though.....
posted by mmahaffie at 9:04 PM on August 17, 2004

I guess over the years I went to about 20-30 Phish shows, I volunteered at a booth for some of them so I don't have stubs for all of them.

Were they the best thing evar, no. Were they crap, no. Some like it, some don't. You can say that about any music. I don't like country & western, that doesn't make it bad, just not to my taste.

What someone is doing when they say "your favorite band sucks" is putting their own issues out for all to see. This says more about them for needing to try to invalidate what others like than it does about any merit or lack thereof of the band in question.

That being said, I have had some great experiences at Phish concerts. Sometimes my experience of the music took me places, sometimes the music was just a backdrop for that time of my life. Sometimes, if i was lucky, everything just was. In any event now that the Phish thing is over, its passing marks the end of that chapter of my life. More than the breakup itself being an impact, it is the reminder of the transience of all things, and how time slips by when we aren't looking.

I wanted to go to coventry, but Logistics and too much good sense prevented me. I am sure that I will wonder for a long time what might have transpired had I gone. My common sense can be my undoing at times. So, my last concert was 4th row, Mikes side 6/26/04 at Alpine Valley*. Not a bad way to end what was for me an 8 year ride. Thank you, and Goodnight.

*I lucked into those tickets on the ticketmaster site after the concert sold out. The engine in my car blew up on the way there, but since I had taken a wrong turn my friends dad happened by, towed my car to their auto shop, and dropped me off at the front gates. Missed some of the first set, but the whole journey had a surreal deterministic quality to it I will not soon forget.
posted by jester69 at 9:42 PM on August 17, 2004

Wow... I had no idea they were hanging it up. I've been a fan for about ten years, and I admire Phish above all for their ability to play together and stay together. Their musical ability and tight relationship have combined to bring so much good energy into my life and many others around me... Even the friends I know who turn up their noses at the "dirty hippie" stuff have generally had to confess some respect for their musical talents, and in this regard I think they've won the status of a true American original for all time. The song "David Bowie" is like the gold stake that broke the ground on the edifice of my personal musical canon.

Thanks for posting this, Matt.

Seth - please skate on into my labyrinth. that's it...
posted by scarabic at 9:48 PM on August 17, 2004

I have friends who hate Phish, and all they stand for, and I have friends who love Phish and all they stand for. However, these friends are friends with each other indeed.

It's because although aggressively arguing over matters of taste is needlessly divisive and negative, earnest discussion over matters of taste gives us insight into our own emotional wiring. Sure, I find Phish corny, but... why?

I think the reason is that Phish tried to expand the minds of the masses. The problem is, the masses don't want to expand their minds at all, they only want to return to the womb. They want to degenerate into homogenous blobs of feel-good energy. So, that's what Phish ended up providing them. The band members are still awesome musicians and brilliant improvisers, but they write their songs as nursery rhymes for tripsters. Cathartic, exuberant nursery rhymes, but nursery rhymes nonetheless.

There are those Phish fans who recognize this in full. They don't identify with the womb-seekers, but rather identify with the spirit of Phish, which is getting people excited about something and making them happy. To them, I say rock on. However, I simply can't allow myself to resonate with that, so I have to sit out. However, the day may come when we have a band as popular as Phish that musically exploits the negative and positive sides of life equally. When that day comes, I'll be there.
posted by Laugh_track at 12:00 AM on August 18, 2004

I think the reason is that Phish tried to expand the minds of the masses. The problem is, the masses don't want to expand their minds at all

I think this attitude is pretty much why people hate Phish and their ilk.

Reminds me of the sort of attitude people have when they "find God".
posted by fullerine at 12:53 AM on August 18, 2004

Anything positive or affirming = lullabies for escapists?

You know, I listen to plenty of dark, soul-searching, politically-important music, and I love it all, but there is actually more to life than activism and drama. One of Phish's long, rambly songs (I forget the name) winds an ecstatic instrumental path toward the ending lyric: "You can feel good." It's a pathetically obvious point, and yet one we so often forget as we grind toward our goals.

If you choose, you can construe "you can feel good" as a prompt to take drugs and escape all responsibility, run away from life's difficulties and pain. Or you can take it as a gentle reminder that joy is part of your potential as well, and try to remember to own something positive each day as well as something responsible, important, and dignified. There's absolutely nothing retarded about remembering to feel good now and then, which is exactly what Phish usually reminds me to do.

I'm pretty confused by your comment, actually, Laugh track. Are they trying to expand people's minds? Or are they trying to lull them back to sleep? You seem to be contradicting yourself. Did they set out to expand minds but give up along the way and start churning out the crowd-pleasing mellow-grooves they perceived people wanted? I think you don't know much about the band if any of those is your summary of their career.

Reminds me of the sort of attitude people have when they "find God".

When you say it, that sounds like a bad thing ;)
posted by scarabic at 2:03 AM on August 18, 2004

This all reminds me of the arguments about The Polyphonic Spree, pro and con. The Spree are fairly goofy, but they are who they are and they provide something relatively unique. Love it... hate it... move on.
posted by mmahaffie at 3:52 AM on August 18, 2004

FWIW, I don't hate Phish - the jokes are just too easy to come up with.
posted by eustacescrubb at 5:49 AM on August 18, 2004

Just to re-clarrify: I was not trying to say that Phish is objectively crap. I was not trying to say that someone can't like their music. Of course, I recognize that music tastes are merely a matter of subjective taste, and do not think tastes are worth arguing over.

But that acknowledgement doesn't prevent the observation that Phish was not new, unique or timeless. My argument wasn't centered on the fact that Phish has fans. Rather, the confounding issue is the deification of the band by people who suggest that Phish is somehow revolutionary or life-altering. Phish was a band of very good instrumentalists who were sucked into a 'scene.' Their music was constrained by the demands of the scene who just wanted the right groove music so they could rain dance around and try to have a claim to their 'Woodstock' with drugs, camping and 'free love, man.' Liking their music is understandable---acting as if they are the alpha and omega is repugnant.

So, since I respect the musical ability of its members, I think this break-up is something that is good for the band members. Maybe they can ditch those fans, escape the scene, and let their music grow and evolve.


I think this attitude is pretty much why people hate Phish and their ilk.
Reminds me of the sort of attitude people have when they "find God".
posted by fullerine at 2:53 AM CST on August 18

Fullerine nails it. It is a bit ironic that the people I know that are Phish idolators are also the most vehemently atheistic people I know. They will curse those who choose to believe in religion, but then will act as if "Trey's jam in the cover of ___ was soul-altering if only people were open to it." It's all too farcical.
posted by Seth at 6:00 AM on August 18, 2004

I never understood the 'hey they're great musicians' argument for liking a band. I'm sure they are, but so are Ronnie James Dio and Celine Dion. Let's get fans of all three bands in one room and they can have a tag-team grudge match to decide the greatest musician in the world.

Whatever. I'm glad Phish brought joy to so many hippies. It gave them somewhere to go that was away from me. Give me songs with a begriming and an end and a point anyday.
posted by lumpenprole at 6:25 AM on August 18, 2004

Oops, I let the spell check change a misspelled 'begining' to 'begriming'. KInd of works anyway.

P.S. I don't like Dio or Celine Dion nor do I endorse the wrestling of their fans.
posted by lumpenprole at 6:27 AM on August 18, 2004

Ronnie James Dio and Céline Dion don't play (aren't known for playing, anyway) instruments, though. Those two singers need bands to back them up. But I was piled upon the last time I tried that argument.
posted by emelenjr at 7:06 AM on August 18, 2004

the reason is that Phish tried to expand the minds of the masses. The problem is, the masses don't want to expand their minds at all, they only want to return to the womb. They want to degenerate into homogenous blobs of feel-good energy. So, that's what Phish ended up providing them.

A nice seamless-sounding bit of reasoning. But it's not quite true.

Phish became one of the top-grossing bands in America, but they never stopped taking their improvisations into some very dark, dissonant, and challenging places. I'm told that the jams at Coventry were supremely dark. Where did Phish "end up," if not Coventry? It's not like they played a bunch of saccharine shows in their middle years and then returned to form.

Their music was always a mixture of light and dark, and much of their "feel-good" energy came specifically from Trey's fascination with ecstatic improvisations evolving out of dissonance. There was always a "price" to be paid in the music before you got to ride the wave. This is precisely what set Phish apart from the legions of bliss-ninny jam bands -- and precisely what they shared with the Dead, by the way.

Phish and the Dead were the two most popular jam bands of all time, and both of their bodies of work were distinguished by more darkness than you'd expect in this genre. Granted, there were many, many, many fans of both bands who didn't "get" the darkness, didn't like it, would have preferred to bob their heads in psychedelic lala-land (but then again, them damn psychedelics, so popular with the fans of both bands, have a way of spiriting you down to Hades in between the intervals in Heaven or on Earth. Hm.) But the overall titanic commercial success of both of these bands suggests that there is a hunger for challenging, darkly shaded music, even in the place you'd least expect it: among the masses of feel-good hippies.

Future Phish/Dead wannabes should keep that in mind. The lack of instructive darkness is why most jambands are interchangeable and disposable, in my opinion.
posted by digaman at 7:47 AM on August 18, 2004

Well said, digaman. This is a conversation I've had with my wife for years--she can't bear to listen to most Phish precisely because they get too dark, dissonant, or just plain rowdy (see Piper, Carini, Frankenstein, or any other song they decide to take down that road.) My argument is that you have to earn the pretty parts, that the noise can provide catharsis, but she'd rather have all candy. The Dead, by the way, are much easier to handle for her. Phish can get wicked evil, and they've scared the hell out me many times. Generally, this will just make the return to harmony and song that much sweeter, but this doesn't always happen: at Camden, they let "Scents & Subtle Sounds" (the last great Phish song) descent into dissonant mothership-has-landed loops and simply walked off stage one by one. Phish was gone, but the music was still hanging there, unresolved....
posted by muckster at 8:29 AM on August 18, 2004

I think people really do the term "practice" a disservice by using is so carelessly with Phish. As some have mentioned, one of the reasons Phish was so much better than [your band] was because they practiced like mad. But it's the way that they practiced that was just as important as the amount:

[Trey]: "It is ironic. The main exercise that starts the whole thing off is an exercise that's go a weird name; it's called an 'Including Your Own Hey.' There are four of us standing in a circle in the practice room, and I start a simple, repetitive, three-note phrase. Then, the other three guys come in to complement that phrase till you have a bed of sound. I've often thought that the closest thing I've heard to it is sort of a King Sunny Ade kind of thing, where each person is playing a small part to make a greater whole. As soon as I hear that the other three people have come and and joined me, and have settled onto something that's good, I say 'Hey.' At the same time the other three people are doing the same thing. They're listening to hear when all the other people have joined and made a bed of sound and settled. They also say 'Hey.' Theoretically, it would be at the same time, 'cause we're all hearing the same thing, right? As soon as everyone says, 'Hey,' the person to my right changes his phrase, and then the other three people have to adjust their (musical) statement to fit the other person's, so there's a second bed of sound, at which point you say, 'Hey,' again. This goes around in a circle and the music continues to change.

"What this exercise does is, you have to be listening actively to three different things at the same time, which is a very hard thing to do; it's not the way people listen usually. It gets rid of your ego in that you're training yourself to listen to the other three people all the time, and if you do this for hours and hours, what happens is that if you get up onstage and you find yourself kind of just rocking out aimlessly, your mind is continually telling you 'What's Page doing? What are the drums doing?' That was the base exercise, and we expanded on it over the years. First, we expanded by doing that same exercise, but limiting ourselves to one aspect of music. So we would do it purely on tempo, for instance, so that each person in the circle has a turn controlling the tempo, either rushing it or dragging it. That got us over the fear of our improvisations onstage -- we opened up a new kind of freedom. "
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 8:30 AM on August 18, 2004

I actually agree with a lot of Seth's points, but Phish's fan contingent isn't anywhere near being my main reason for disliking the band. I just didn't care for the music, even though I gave them a fair shot. I even went to a concert where they covered a Stones song off Exile and a Velvet Underground song (both of which couldn't be more up my musical taste alley), and the thing I found myself most impressed with was the light show. I don't really care about whether a band is able to incorporate 12 different silly time signatures into their music, and I don't think doing so necessarily makes you more original or creative. I mean, who really thinks Dave Brubeck (with Take 5 and some others) is the greatest jazzman ever? It just seems incredibly masturbatory to me. I don't mean to knock on anyone's tastes, but that's how their stuff affects me. Oddly enough, however, I can be completely entranced by a 10-minute feedback solo. Go figure.
posted by LionIndex at 9:20 AM on August 18, 2004

Much more simply put:
complexity != quality
posted by LionIndex at 9:24 AM on August 18, 2004

>>the Dead never performed intricate through-composed suites like "You Enjoy Myself" and "Divided Sky," which formed a large part of what Phish were about

you're kidding, right? Listen to Terrapin Station or Help on the Way->Slipknot!
posted by birdsong at 10:30 AM on August 18, 2004

at Camden, they let "Scents & Subtle Sounds" (the last great Phish song) descent into dissonant mothership-has-landed loops and simply walked off stage one by one. Phish was gone, but the music was still hanging there, unresolved....

Okay, now you're making them sound like Radiohead.

Between the 'dissonance' comments and the satirical thing Seth wrote about vacuum cleaners, my interest is piqued. Looking forward to hearing the CDs, muckster. And thanks.
posted by jokeefe at 10:36 AM on August 18, 2004

No, I'm not kidding, but yes, "Terrapin" and "Help on the Way > Slipknot!" are the exceptions. Good catch.

Still, the entire "Terrapin" suite was almost never played live -- in fact, was the whole thing ever played live while Garcia was around? I can recall a couple of "Terrapin Flyers" showing up in DeadBase, but as far as I can remember, the Dead stuck to playing only the first couple of sections, and then launched into free playing from there. With the exception of the first section, "Lady With a Fan," the "Terrapin" suite was more or less a studio phenomenon, while Phish played "You Enjoy Myself" and "Divided Sky" -- as well as other composition-heavy numbers like "Reba" -- almost every night.
posted by digaman at 10:41 AM on August 18, 2004

Phish and the Dead were the two most popular jam bands of all time, and both of their bodies of work were distinguished by more darkness than you'd expect in this genre.

That's absolutely true, but I feel this darkness is discernible only when you limit your scope to the jam band genre, which is "bliss-ninny" to begin with. I won't argue that Phish has done wonders within this realm, but I maintain they were still held back by their fanbase. I also believe that's a major factor into why they broke up.

I often sit around with my Phish loving friends and listen to them rave about how (for example) Tweezer is an exceptionally dark song. Speaking as a fan of the Blood Brothers and Venetian Snares, this sounds like complete wank to me. But, they of course spoke from within the context of Phish's larger body of work, an area about which they have much greater knowledge than myself.
posted by Laugh_track at 10:44 AM on August 18, 2004

Okay, now you're making them sound like Radiohead.

As indeed they could be on certain nights.

I saw Radiohead at Madison Square Garden twice last year, the first night being one of the best ten concerts I've ever seen in my life, out of hundreds. And they ended each night with apocalyptic "loop" jams that reminded me very much of what Phish was doing in the mid-to-late '90s.
posted by digaman at 10:45 AM on August 18, 2004

I feel this darkness is discernible only when you limit your scope to the jam band genre

Not so for the Dead, but I'll let someone else speak about Phish.

The Dead got into gnarly, feedback-ridden, thundering, downright ugly hearts-of-darkness that you'd be hard-pressed to beat in any genre.

I co-produced a box set for the Dead called "So Many Roads (1965-1995)," and one of the tracks I chose to include was a version of "Playing in the Band" from Laguna Seca '88 that is absolutely terrifying -- it sounds like the stage is burning down and the instruments are exploding. It stands up to dissonant hair-curling music in any genre, and was included on the set specifically to bum the bliss-ninnies out and demonstrate that truly exploratory, honest music also has to include a tour of Hell.
posted by digaman at 10:58 AM on August 18, 2004

And they ended each night with apocalyptic "loop" jams that reminded me very much of what Phish was doing in the mid-to-late '90s

Yep-- they closed pretty much every show on the 2003/2004 tour with Everything in its Right Place, which expanded into those long devolving loops and vocal effects which just hung over the stage after the band had left, one by one.
posted by jokeefe at 11:08 AM on August 18, 2004

>>>was the whole thing ever played live while Garcia was around?

I don't think it was.

>>>The Dead got into gnarly, feedback-ridden, thundering, downright ugly hearts-of-darkness

I remember when they first started playing 'Victim or the Crime' and people were cringing at the horrible feedback and general cheesy Bobness of it all. It did end up growing on lots of heads - myself not included.

By the way Digaman - thanks for all your great writing over the years which has been much appreciated by heads - myself included. :)
posted by birdsong at 11:12 AM on August 18, 2004

Indeed. And it was magnificent.

By the way, my nomination for "the next Phish" is... Radiohead! Part of what frustrates me about American audiences is how sectarian and fragmented they are, how cliquish. If you like Radiohead, you simply don't like Phish, even if you've never heard them. If you like jambands, bands like Radiohead seem like "total poseurs" or something.

Well, fuck that. When I was in Amsterdam in the early '90s, I met a wonderful Dutch guy who told me his two favorite bands were the Dead and the Cure. Can you imagine an American kid saying such a thing?

I thought Radiohead live was a lot closer to the kind of music I loved the Dead for -- the ecstasy, the apocalypse, the devouring darkness, the hard-earned redemption -- than a gazillion stringy-cheese bands.
posted by digaman at 11:17 AM on August 18, 2004

Heh, what an embarrassing juxtaposition of posts there -- I meant that the "devolving" loops were magnificent.

Thanks so much, John!

And I fell in love with "Victim" one night at Cal Expo when the whole scene seemed pretty dark to me, and the happy boppy numbahs just didn't seem in touch with the energy in the crowd. "Victim" acted like an exorcism, and it was uphill from there.
posted by digaman at 11:20 AM on August 18, 2004

70,000 barefoot chlidren outside, dancing on my lawn. (15 MB QT)
There's a clip from someone's video footage of the concert (not the official simulcast footage). I found the link in rec.music.phish, so I'm pretty certain the person who shot the video and posted it to the newsgroup wouldn't mind spreading it around. Anyway, a taste of Coventry (second song of the second set on the final day) and a taste of Phish for the uninitiated.
posted by emelenjr at 11:57 AM on August 18, 2004

Yep-- they closed pretty much every show on the 2003/2004 tour with Everything in its Right Place, which expanded into those long devolving loops and vocal effects which just hung over the stage after the band had left, one by one.

Not to derail the thread or anything, but I caught them on that tour and Radiohead was indeed the shit many times over. Their songs just sound so much more complete live... they infuse a very exuberant energy into all their songs in performance, even the moody ones, somehow.
posted by Laugh_track at 11:59 AM on August 18, 2004

...I caught them on that tour and Radiohead was indeed the shit many times over. Their songs just sound so much more complete live...

Yup. Sounds like something a Deadhead (say ... me ... just to name one) would say, doesn't it? I think Laugh_track makes a good point here. Bands that sound better live are always worth our time; that spark of creativity shines through so well when the live performance is a real live performance and not just a recreation of the record.

The Dead (then and now), Phish, any of dozens of folkies and smaller bands, Radiohead? (I guess I'd better do some exploring), and yes, though some may cringe, Bruce Hornsby.

The list could go on, thankfully....
posted by mmahaffie at 1:20 PM on August 18, 2004

Funny, I actually started getting interested in Radiohead around the same time I got "out" of the Phish scene. I spent four years having no idea about OK Computer save for Karma Police, then listened to the album straight-through on a long trip with a friend.

I think I had him play the album four or five times in a row on repeat.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 1:44 PM on August 18, 2004

I've been thinking about what kurtosis said, and although I very much like all the complex composed parts of Phish's songs, I find the open sections much more interesting. On some nights the composed parts of Reba, Hood, Slave, or Bowie might be spot-on or botched, but it's the jam I really listen for. I used to wait for the moment when the beast would get out of control, when nobody was in charge anymore--that, to me, was what it was all about.

Consequently, some of my favorite pieces of Phish music are the entirely free-form sets, like the ambient set from Lemonwheel and last year's Control Tower Jam, which was probably the greatest spectacle I've ever witnessed. (You can see parts of it in the PBS special, which is an excellent way to get into Phish--much deeper, smarter, and focussed on the music than "Bittersweet Motel.")

As for bands to watch out for, I'd like to include the terrific Sound Tribe Sector 9, Garaj Mahal, the Benevento/Russo Duo (which recently played an amazing, entirely improvised show with Mike Gordon and Michael Kang), and of course the Dead, Ratdog, and PLQ. (Re: Radiohead, I've enjoyed some of their recent albums and have heard enough good things now to see a show when I get a chance.)

I'd also like to join John in expressing my gratitude to digaman. I distinctly remember your piece in--what was it? A Relix special issue?--after Jerry's death helping me a good deal. Thank you.
posted by muckster at 2:45 PM on August 18, 2004

Thanks, muckster. It was actually a Dupree's Diamond News special issue, and that piece, "The Only Song of God," has since been anthologized in a book edited by David Dodd called The Grateful Dead Reader. Synchronistically enough, I stumbled on that essay again for the first time in years just last night, and realized that I never got around to putting it on the Web. If you know any really hip, stylish Deadhead Web designers (i.e., no dancing bears, "tie-dyed" borders, or fractal swirling nauseana) who might be interested in helping me do that, please let me know [smile].

some of my favorite pieces of Phish music are the entirely free-form sets, like the ambient set from Lemonwheel and last year's Control Tower Jam

Yeah. For all my blabbing in this thread about Phish's composition, I'm totally there with you on that. It was hearing the freeform jam in "Reba" at Spreckles Theater on 12/8/94 that made me realize how serious Phish were, despite, or complementary to, their goofy lyrics. And Phish's goofy lyrics became a lot easier to appreciate after meeting their lyricist, Tom Marshall, who is a brilliant, witty, hilarious, sweet computer programmer in his day-job life, or was the last time I spoke to him.
posted by digaman at 3:22 PM on August 18, 2004

Phish's fan contingent isn't anywhere near being my main reason for disliking the band. I just didn't care for the music, even though I gave them a fair shot.

Fair enough.

Seth just seems to be denigrating the band based on their fans, the silliest of the bunch, too. That kind of reasoning can be applied to anything. Star Wars is shit because some serious losers are like wayyy into it. Beethoven sucks because silly goth kids think he's sooo divine. Stephen Hawking is a loser because wacky new-agers like to quote him.

Sthupid.
posted by scarabic at 4:04 PM on August 18, 2004

It's amazing how uncommon it is for people to dissociate their personal feelings from the question of musical quality. Hell, it takes most people years to be able to come around and admit, for example, that there might be something good to bluegrass music or speed metal, but they happen to not like it - instead of saying "it sucks".

Phish's style of performance is very hard to do, and they did it very well indeed. Anyone who can't see that has been fortunate never to hear a BAD jam band, I think.
posted by crunchburger at 5:04 PM on August 18, 2004

Actually, scarabic, if you read my comments, I don't denigrate the band. I said they were very good musicians more than once. I also said that I think they will be better now because they can free themselves of the demands of their fans and the scene.

I stand by my comments that the band was not original, revolutionary, or impressive songwriters. But they are indeed good instrumentalists and composers of music.

So you are incorrect to say that I am "denigrating the band based on their fans"... I am denigrating most of their fans because of their fans behavior. I am denigrating their fans because of their preposterous hyper-aggrandizement of the band. Hearing them talk about the band, one would think that they are Gods among men who play their golden instruments to free your soul. When in reality, they are just good musicians who play music for a bunch of high people who only want to hear grooves to rain dance to, not kill their buzz, and permit them to be a part of a Woodstock-wannabe scene.

But as I said more than once now, I do not think Phish is without value; they are good musicians who will get better when they get rid of their fans.
posted by Seth at 5:05 PM on August 18, 2004

I don't have any illusions about winning you over, Seth, so I'll just put this as a statement and save myself a lot of typing: the fans were part of Phish. Without us, Trey would still be composing by himself in a hut in Vermont, like he was twenty years ago. The difference between then and what happened in the same spot last weekend were the 70,000 people who walked for miles to hear Phish play. The simple reason their studio albums were never as good as the live concerts? We weren't there--to listen, cheer, twirl, do our rain dance, whatever. No doubt you'll call "hyper-aggrendizement" again, but I know that I was a part of Phish, and seeing them never failed to lift my spirits. That doesn't make them Golden Gods by any stretch of the imagination, but it does mean that music--good music, any music--can nourish your soul.

And if Phish didn't do that for you, better run out and find somebody who can.
posted by muckster at 8:41 PM on August 18, 2004

Or run out and make fun of the passed out wookies, what do I care.
posted by muckster at 9:02 PM on August 18, 2004

Would be rather pointless to have a band if one doesn't have fans to go along with it. Gotta have someone listen to the music, otherwise it's just a practice session.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:27 PM on August 18, 2004

Painting all Phish fans with the same brush is, just, ya know, a not very high-rez picture of the world. The Phish fans in this thread seem to be quite articulate, and no one's calling them "Gods." So it must be some other Phish fans who are all idiots. Wherever they are.
posted by digaman at 10:38 PM on August 18, 2004

I thought Radiohead live was a lot closer to the kind of music I loved the Dead for -- the ecstasy, the apocalypse, the devouring darkness, the hard-earned redemption -- than a gazillion stringy-cheese bands.

Ecstacy, apocalypse, devouring darkness, hard earned redemption-- yes a thousand times over. I'd go on about how RH live is something utterly different from what you might hear on the albums in terms of sheer sonic dynamics, and how there's that shared emotion near to rapture at a concert, but I have a feeling I'd be preaching to the choir: Phish, Dead or RH, most people still posting here seem to have a pretty fine understanding of why you'd fly a thousand miles to attend one concert. And never regret a second of the travel time or the money spent, but feel it a privilege to have been there.
posted by jokeefe at 12:15 AM on August 19, 2004

Oh, and muckster-- if you like, I'll send you a copy of Earl's Court #2 from November 27 last year. 'Tis mindblowing. :) [/geek]
posted by jokeefe at 12:35 AM on August 19, 2004

Could you toss that onto a torrent, jo?
posted by five fresh fish at 6:54 PM on August 19, 2004

Heh, talking of over-hyped bands, it's only appropriate that Radiohead were introduced into the discussion. We have no jam band scene in Australia (AFAIK) so I have no comments on that, but it does look like a fun scene... kinda like raves for rockers maybe?
posted by Onanist at 9:45 PM on August 19, 2004

Could you toss that onto a torrent, jo?
posted by five fresh fish at 6:54 PM PST on August 19

Fraid not, fish-- I haven't ventured into the world of bittorent in the past because it wasn't worth it to try and install all the software bits and pieces to try and get it to work with OS 9.1, and now that I've got a nice G3 iBook I don't have time for the next few months-- but send me an email with your address and I'll burn a copy for you.

Actually, on second thought, you could check out the Radiohub for live shows-- not sure how Matt feels about linking to download sites, so just google 'Radiohub' and it'll come right up. But I'm happy to burn a copy for you if you prefer.
posted by jokeefe at 9:56 PM on August 19, 2004

Will do.

If you've got Sun Java, you can snag Azureus and get a great torrent client.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:39 PM on August 19, 2004