Police confuse Canadians with Batman.

August 21, 2004 2:47 PM

Organized crime growing in Canada, police chiefs ask for public to help Police chiefs in Canada seem to confuse Canadians with Batman. Who do we take on first? The Hell's Angels, the Mafia, or the Asian gangs. So many gangs, so few Batgadgets.
posted by Coop (20 comments total)

"Holy mentholated smokes, eh! It's the Illegal Cigarette Peddler!"

"You might as well give yourself up quietly, Peddler...Your nefarious network of nicotine is finally nicked, eh!"

"Ah-ha-ha-ha! COUGH-COUGH! That's where you're wrong, eh- COUGH! For you see, you've clumsily stumbled into my COUGH-COUGH-COUGH-COUGH! Oh, damn- COUGH-COUGH! I've gotta sit down a sec, eh- COUGH-COUGH-COUGH! Go get- COUGH-COUGH! COUGH-COUGH!"

"Here, boss, I've got a light-"

"COUGH-COUGH! No, my loyal henchmen- COUGH! Just get them, eh!"
posted by Smart Dalek at 3:08 PM on August 21, 2004

are you kidding...? where i live i'm surrounded by mafia. for god's sake my next door neighbor is a mafia princess and the main reason why we've decided to move. so, uhh, NO. the last thing i'm gonna do is start finking on my dangerous neighbors.
posted by t r a c y at 3:37 PM on August 21, 2004

What gave 'em away, Tracy, the bumper sticker reading "My child is an honours student at the Al Dente family crime syndicate"?
posted by arto at 4:08 PM on August 21, 2004

Yeah, maybe they should call New Jersey and ask the average citizens there how they participate in fighting organized crime. The residents of Newark, Kearny, Nutley, Bloomfield, Paterson, Prospect Park, and many other Essex/Union/Hudson/Bergen County towns will laugh in their faces.

I'm sure that like Americans, Canadians pay part of their taxes in the hopes that the cops will deal with these problems... because that's their job. That's what the tax money is for.

Are the Mounties no longer considered "badass?" As I recall, you don't mess with the Mounties, period.
posted by zoogleplex at 4:13 PM on August 21, 2004

In fairness to the cops, who hasn't confsued Canadians with Batman? I mean, it's a very easy mistake to make.
posted by Zonker at 4:14 PM on August 21, 2004

(er, "confused". Like me.)
posted by Zonker at 4:24 PM on August 21, 2004

What gave 'em away, Tracy, the bumper sticker reading "My child is an honours student at the Al Dente family crime syndicate"?

har har. they're a long time area family, quite (in)famous and not exactly concerned with blending in. everyone's used to seeing them on the nightly news, now i'm getting used to seeing them in the lobby.
posted by t r a c y at 4:45 PM on August 21, 2004

A simple solution: a licensed "concealed carry" law.

Canada is just too large to be adequately policed by a paid police force. The alternative is using the public in a limited, and non-vigilante manner to help.

A well-trained, and I mean well-trained, licensed concealed holder is an instant policeman. First of all, just their existence is a strong deterrent to both violent and property crime; second, being armed, they are on scene and *able* to stop crime in progress; third, their arms are not casually displayed, being concealed, so do not provoke situations that can be resolved non-violently; fourth, they are generally disinterested in misdemenor crimes, those that do not involve violence or serious theft or destruction, so they do not annoy others without strong cause.

Concealed carry people also tend to be reactive, unlike police, who are supposed to be proactive. Policemen are constantly thinking about drawing their weapon, whereas a licensed concealed carry person generally will not pull their weapon until they absolutely have to.

In my area, where concealed carry is legal, the #1 license holders are women menaced by ex-boyfriends and husbands--strongly reducing violence against them that the police are almost powerless to stop. The very few shootings occurred in defense against armed robbery in progress, often with an exchange in gunfire. However, and most importantly, a large number of crimes have been stopped by concealed carry holders menacing criminals to stop, then either run away or be detained for the police.

In several years now, no concealed carry licensee has been arrested for involvement in any crime involving their weapon.
posted by kablam at 4:53 PM on August 21, 2004

kablam:

That dosn't make any sense. What are you suggesting? That when an average canuck sees a back-ally tax-free cigarette deal go down they should just shoot everybody?

concealed Carry laws might be great against abusive ex's, but shooting a mobster will probably make your problems a lot worse then they previously were.

Besides:

International organized crime groups have established huge networks across Canada to traffic drugs, import sex slaves, export stolen luxury vehicles and commit identity theft.

How is an armed citizen supposed to stop that?
posted by delmoi at 5:06 PM on August 21, 2004

delmoi: guns fix all problems. Maybe if everyone in the world had a gun, it'd be safe to walk on the street at night.
posted by bob sarabia at 5:15 PM on August 21, 2004

Considering all the idiot laws that cause regular normally law-abiding citizens to feel perfectly fine breaking the law in Canada, it's no wonder at all that the mob is winning.

- Bootlegging cigarettes up due to new taxes? CHECK.
- Bootlegging booze up due to the same? CHECK.
- Sales of drugs up due to slow as molasses legalization? Sure, CHECK.
- Underground market in pirate US television up? BIG HUGE FULL MONTY CHECK.
- Sales of illicit weapons up due to bills like bill C-68? CHECK.
- Illegal underground hangouts where people can smoke and drink indoors after 2 am up? CHECK.

I'm sure there's probably a martket in bootleg gasoline too, but that's something I haven't personally haven't been proffered.
posted by shepd at 5:29 PM on August 21, 2004

Yes, more guns. Lord knows they've done wonders for US crime rates. Quote your stats however you like, we have less people getting shot up here and I'm happy about that.

The Mounties don't deal with policing the big cities, which is where a lot of the problems lie. The problem here, as with most problems, is lack of resources. I don't know where our tax money has been going, but it hasn't been to help the police fight organised crime. You know, I'm not really sure if I want to know where our tax money is going. The few times I do find out, it just makes me angry.

Good job on bringing satellite and pirate tv into the debate again, shepd. You're nothing if not consistent. ;)
posted by Salmonberry at 5:42 PM on August 21, 2004

guns! Guns! GUNS! GuNs gUnS guNS!

Because, you know, we Canadians envy American gun culture. Oooh, yeah.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:00 PM on August 21, 2004

Co-opt and legalize their revenue streams, namely gambling, most illegal drugs (keep the highly addictive ones for the truly reckless), prostitution, etc and there will be less organizard crime. The problem sure as hell isn't a lack of guns, its a lack of perspective when it comes to human nature and putting legal controls on social actions which should be legal.

I mean, I'm going to get shot by some blow-hard because the government has decided that pot is bad for me and a dealer has moved into the neighborhood bringing in his violent crime buddies, thus putting me at risk? Just sell the shit and watch the market get rid of the dealers.

Its scary that the first reaction on this board is "get em guns" without even considering why organized crime exists. Yes, there will always be violent crime, hard drugs, and victimization, but legalizing what makes organized crime profitable is a sure way to decrease crime (and victimization/oppresion) and enhance civil liberties.

Most organized crime is just a black market business. Turn that market "white" and its over. No need to lock up 10+ percent of the population and have neighbors shoot each other in fear.

Maybe I'm crazy and the solution truly is more paranoid armed citizens and more non-violent drug offenders in prison like here in the US.

I'm not even going to go into the massive hypocrisy of how religious establishments are allowed to perform gambling under the protections of non-profit status while they preach and support laws against it for the private sector.
posted by skallas at 9:29 PM on August 21, 2004

Most organized crime is just a black market business. Turn that market "white" and its over.

Well, in theory that's good, but I don't know if that completely holds water. It's not like the people involved in large scale drug dealing, gambling, pimping etc. would become solid citizens if only the products were made legal. It's not like after prohibition was repealed, the mob went into the distillery business. They merely moved on to the next profitable racket. Hell even with legal gambling available, illegal gambling still flourishes.

Also, it's not neccessarily the things being sold themselves that are the problem (although drugs, gambling etc can certanly do damage to individuals, families, and communities and I by no means want to minimize that) but the business practices surrounding them, like murdering your competition, brutalizing clients etc.

Plus, there's other businesses that organized crime is involved in, like loansharking, extortion, murder for hire, labor racketeering, hijacking and fencing which have been as profitable (and more violent) than the dope, gambling and hookers trade, which for obvious reasons cannot be decriminalized.

Plus if these things are legalized, they're going to have to be highly regulated and criminal syndicates will be happy to work outside those regulations if there's a demand.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm in favor of legalizing these things, too, but I don't see it as a panacea.
posted by jonmc at 8:24 AM on August 22, 2004

It's surely not a panacea, but it's a big, big step in the right direction.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:59 AM on August 22, 2004

I have to say the google text ads on this page are classic.
posted by delmoi at 12:10 PM on August 22, 2004

My sympathies are with the cigarette smugglers. I want cheaper smokes goddamnit.

And funnily enough, Canada's cigarette smuggling Indians _did_ gentrify. That's how gangs took it over - the Indians in Quebec made so much money back in the early nineties that they bought their own production equipment and went into the budget cigarette business, leaving the Hell's Angels to take over.
posted by Pseudoephedrine at 2:32 PM on August 22, 2004

and in the streets of montreal yesterday we had a sickeningly ignorant display of admiration for a finally dead mafioso. unbelievable.

I have to say the google text ads on this page are classic.

i wish i could see them, but there's none on this page or any other; i don't see the text ads lately...
posted by t r a c y at 5:08 PM on August 22, 2004

In several years now, no concealed carry licensee has been arrested for involvement in any crime involving their weapon.

Hey, that's true where I live as well.
posted by biffa at 5:19 PM on August 22, 2004