Columbus swift boat vet angry about letter
September 1, 2004 9:04 AM   Subscribe

Columbus swift boat vet angry about letter Swift boat veteran Bob Anderson of Columbus is ticked. It bothers him that Sen. John Kerry's swift boat history has become such a political hot potato. But he's even more irritated that his name was included - without his permission - on a letter used to discredit Kerry. "I'm pretty nonpolitical," the 56-year-old Anderson said Tuesday. So, when he found out last week that his name was one of about 300 signed on a letter questioning Kerry's service, he was "flabbergasted."
posted by Postroad (78 comments total)

 
I knew they were liars! I just KNEW it.

Thanks Postroad, for gifting me the chance to vote for Kerry with dignity.
posted by dand at 9:15 AM on September 1, 2004


Area man angry about seeing yet another swift boat post on the blue... News at 11.

Seriously, the more that progressives talk about it the more it stays in the news.

At this point no one who votes for Bush will ever think of Kerry as anything other than a pinko commie who wiped his ass with the medals he should have never earned and then threw them at the dying babies he lit on fire on the Capital steps.

Bush is their savior, nothing that anyone says will sway them.

Can't we get an AYBABTU or something?
posted by togdon at 9:17 AM on September 1, 2004


So hang on... you're telling me that the swift boat thing wasn't true?

Why didn't we hear of this sooner!?
posted by reklaw at 9:19 AM on September 1, 2004


I was thinking there could be a dozen Bob Andersons who served in Vietnam, but... Bob Wedge too? Hmmm.

"Don't believe everything you read. All it tells me is there is some politics going on there."

Indeed.
posted by weston at 9:30 AM on September 1, 2004


Enough with the Swift Boats already • Enough with the Swift Boats already • Enough with the Swift Boats already • Enough with the Swift Boats already • Enough with the Swift Boats already • Enough with the Swift Boats already • Enough with the Swift Boats already • Enough with the Swift Boats already • Enough with the Swift Boats already • Enough with the Swift Boats already • Enough with the Swift Boats already • Enough with the Swift Boats already • Enough with the Swift Boats already
posted by dhoyt at 9:41 AM on September 1, 2004


All I know is, I keep hearing about this "swift boat" thing, and where there's smoke there's fire, and if there was no truth to it, why would I keep hearing about it, and besides, the fact that Kerry is even involved with something that may or may not be true just proves that he is a flip-flopper like the Bush people say, and I don't even like the sound of the words "flip-flopper," and I keep hearing that too, and it has something to do with Kerry, and the whole thing just seems very unpleasant and confusing, so rather than change horses in midstream, because after all we're in a war, I think, and just yesterday the President -- who is by the way more handsome and trustworthy-looking than that Kerry, who has a horse face, the face of a flip-flopper -- said that we could win this terrible terror war, and besides, with all those Democrats having their convention in the streets of New York by burning flags and taking off their clothes, it's just rude, why can't they have a real convention like the Bush people instead of all this yelling and burning, if they want to yell and burn they should go to Iran, or Iraq, wherever it is, and with all those Heinz ketchup billions you'd think they could afford a real podium like the Republicans, those flip-floppers are out of touch, they don't share my values, they're way out of the mainstream, and besides that thing that Kerry did at Chappaquiddick years ago to that poor girl was just awful, throwing her off the Tallahatchee Bridge and all.
posted by digaman at 9:46 AM on September 1, 2004


Mr. T ate my Swift Vets.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 9:47 AM on September 1, 2004


I can't believe people are criticizing this post. If you're sick of it - don't read it - how hard is that? You can see above that it made a difference to one member - what are your problems? Why not make yourselves useful and find some cool flash games to link to or something?
posted by xammerboy at 9:49 AM on September 1, 2004


aren't swift boats the the most important issue? (not to defame Postroad)
posted by fletcher at 9:49 AM on September 1, 2004


Digaman is the man.

Tallahatchee Bridge. Nice.
posted by grabbingsand at 10:05 AM on September 1, 2004


You can see above that it made a difference to one member - what are your problems?

I haven't fully woken up, and my sarcasm detector may be off. You're joking, right?
posted by Krrrlson at 10:05 AM on September 1, 2004


I was gonna like bash this thread but then I read digaman's post and it validated the whole thing, so..
posted by xmutex at 10:08 AM on September 1, 2004


Can we call them Swift Boat Liars for Bush yet?
posted by nofundy at 10:09 AM on September 1, 2004


Sure. We've been calling you Meta Filter Liars for Kerry for months.
posted by David Dark at 10:37 AM on September 1, 2004


Who's "we," paleface?
posted by chicobangs at 10:38 AM on September 1, 2004


Nicely done, digaman.


Can we call them Swift Boat Liars for Bush yet?

Aw, d00d, are you kidding, we totally can! I'm gonna start RIGHT NOW!!!
posted by dhoyt at 10:41 AM on September 1, 2004


So, David Dark, how do you respond to what appears to be a fact that at least two of the people who the SBVFT claims as supporters and witnesses never signed the letter and apparently disagree with its premise?

At least us MeFi Liars do, in fact, represent ourselves when we speak. The SBVFT can't say the same thing now.

And the rest of you -- seriously, this is big. It should be bigger. Yeah, there's a bunch of Bush supporters who will never be swayed, but there are people in the middle who can -- obviously, if you've watched the polls over the last 2-3 months.
posted by namespan at 10:46 AM on September 1, 2004


Sure. We've been calling you Meta Filter Liars for Kerry for months.

Don't get hung up on it. Cut your losses and move on to the next smear.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 10:47 AM on September 1, 2004


Denial ain't just a river in Egypt: it's also a lifestyle for Republicans like David Dark.
posted by five fresh fish at 10:52 AM on September 1, 2004


nicely done, digaman. :-)

it'd be cool if the people who are bush supporters and are complaining about swift boat vet stuff on mefi are also complaining about swift boat vet stuff to the bush campaign.

a wolf gets the feeling this is not happening, sadly enough.
posted by lord_wolf at 10:54 AM on September 1, 2004


At this point, shouldn't it be considered prosecutable slander?
posted by destro at 10:59 AM on September 1, 2004


There's no such thing as truth in political advertising.
posted by acridrabbit at 11:03 AM on September 1, 2004


Man, lookit all the shitting on the thread in this one. So many people who care so much about Metafilter. Yep.

Righties were gloating how "this issue came up because Kerry highlighted his military record." Well, this is all coming up because Bush is refusing to condemn the attacks from his proxied smear army.

With the exception of a simple same-name error, which is hard to believe with multiple instances, I don't understand how, even without condemning the Swift Boat Liars in general, Bush couldn't condemn something as horrible as fabricating testimony of a military veteran.

But, who knows. I mean, The Speaker of the House is allowed to sponteneously accuse George Soros of being a drug lord without getting his ass run out of town on a rail. I'm going to be telling my grandkids about this election- the time when morality completely left the political process. I'm not really sure what other legacy Bush plans to leave this country.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 11:06 AM on September 1, 2004


Not just lies, but DAMNED lies.
posted by rushmc at 11:10 AM on September 1, 2004


The swift boat thing is like a medieval trial by fire, or dunking for Kerry. If he survives, he was meant to be president. If he does not, he was not meant to be president. Right now, it is killing him. This indicates that the fates do not like John Kerry. He is unlucky. There is a black cloud over his head like Joe Btsflk. He is out of harmony with the universe, and no amount of good intentions, pandering, advertising money and celebrity endorsements can overcome this. I would suggest you vote for Ralph Nader. The fates actually do like him. His work has saved tens of thousands of lives. He does not have Kerry's conscience problems. He's still here. He resists your hatred, and is going to decide this election. Join him, and get in on the universal vibe.
posted by Faze at 11:15 AM on September 1, 2004


Yeah, there's a bunch of Bush supporters who will never be swayed, but there are people in the middle who can

I hope you're not referring to Metafilter given that this website has nothing to do with swaying voters. Do you really think postroad posted this to "convert" David Dark, ParisParamus, et al?

it'd be cool if the people who are bush supporters amd are complaining about swift boat vet stuff on mefi are also complaining about swift boat vet stuff to the bush campaign.

It seems some are simply complaining because this dead-horse topic has been posted a million times, not because we don't think the Swift Boat guys are dishonest. There's a difference. Virtually everyone here knows they're dishonest. But then, we knew that yesterday. And the day before. So what's the point?

Man, lookit all the shitting on the thread in this one. So many people who care so much about Metafilter.

We shit because we care ;)
posted by dhoyt at 11:15 AM on September 1, 2004


I like that one.

MetaFilter: We shit because we care.
posted by Foosnark at 11:20 AM on September 1, 2004


Googlewise, the swift boat story has roughlyten times the play that "Bush ducking his draft-dodging service" does. YGMV.
posted by petebest at 11:34 AM on September 1, 2004


As was said previously, Kerry has dropped the ball.
Bush's ratings have gone up, people find Bush 'more trustworty' and Kerry's have dropped. Rove did a good job.
And in another month, Big Bin Laden will be pulled out of a hole.

We are all doomed.
posted by Espoo2 at 11:34 AM on September 1, 2004


"So what's the point?"

the point is that if they're so put out by seeing the thing being discussed here, rather than complain and moan here to the Rabid America Hating Left, as they view us, why don't they go straight to the source and get their boy to put the kibosh on this crap?

no matter how loudly we of the Rabid America-Hating Left complain about it and expose it here on mefi and elsewhere, it's not going to make a difference. especially since some polls suggest it may be hurting kerry.

but if people on the Guided by a Moral Compass Right, as they see themselves, see it for a web of lies and slander and then complain about it to the people who claim to represent them and who claim to have restored honor and dignity to the whitehouse and america, then maybe, just maybe, something decisive and resolute will be done about it by the bush administration.

and, as a cascading consequence, those of us on the Rabid America-Hating Left won't feel compelled to bring it up on big blue.

(for those of you who aren't bush supporters but are sick of the swift boat crap on mefi...uhhh. hmm. all a poor wolf can think of to say is "i'm sorry"....)
posted by lord_wolf at 11:35 AM on September 1, 2004


Duuuude, Seth is gonna be soooo pissed.
posted by terrapin at 11:38 AM on September 1, 2004


why don't they go straight to the source and get their boy to put the kibosh on this crap?

From what I understand, Bush has said in no uncertain terms he wants the kibosh put on ALL the 527 crap, offering neither his specific support or condemnation to any of them.

But then, we already knew this....
posted by dhoyt at 11:47 AM on September 1, 2004


Babies and bathwater, dhoyt. What that translates to is that lies are okay, it's free speech he doesn't like. I don't see any constitutional way to silence the 527s, nor would I support it if there were. What I would like to see is political libel made legally actionable. In other words, it's not a crime to speak except when what comes out are lies.
posted by George_Spiggott at 11:51 AM on September 1, 2004


Googlewise, the swift boat story has roughly ten times the play that "Bush ducking his draft-dodging service" does.

Until a Sunday soon, that is....

A bit more on Ben Barnes, the guy from Texas who got President Bush into the Guard way-back-when...

But apparently those threats haven't done the trick because he has already taped a lengthy interview slated to appear in the not-too-distant future on a major national news show in which he'll describe the strings he pulled to keep Bush out of Vietnam and apparently more.

posted by y2karl at 11:54 AM on September 1, 2004


Deserters for the Truth
posted by ZippityBuddha at 12:01 PM on September 1, 2004


How much blood can soak the walls before November?
posted by solistrato at 12:02 PM on September 1, 2004


Swift Boat Liars turning into Fast Boat hypocrites? How the whores sell themselves!
These guys are falling faster rain in a July thunderstorm!

A teaser:

Four days ago, retired naval Rear Adm. William L. Schachte Jr. seconded accusations made by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth seeking to discredit Democratic presidential nominee John F. Kerry's record in Vietnam. But since then, Democrats have discovered that Schachte is also a long-standing supporter of President Bush and a lobbyist whose client FastShip Inc. recently won a $40 million grant from the federal government.
posted by nofundy at 12:27 PM on September 1, 2004


Like many of you who commented I too tired of the Swift boat thing till I read that their lying book is a best seller at Amazon and that Bush numbers had gone up because of this lying about Kerry. For those who want another peek at Bush and his heroic service, try this! http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=365&row=0
posted by Postroad at 12:27 PM on September 1, 2004


y2karl,
The problem is, Bush supporters don't care about the National Guard Service. Somewhat undecided voters, like myself, don't care about the National Guard Service. So what if Bush didn't show up? He was a drunk, a wastrel, and irresponsible young coo-coo head at the time. He was trying to get out of doing something disagreeable. It's pretty clear cut. But the Swift Boat thing -- welll -- that's serious it's like... it's like... it's like digaman said in his brilliant ramble ending at the Talahatchee Bridge. It's confusing and kind of reinforces a lot of vague prejudices I had already. It's too hard to think about. I'll vote for Bush.
posted by Faze at 12:32 PM on September 1, 2004


Your mindlessness is made up.
posted by y2karl at 12:37 PM on September 1, 2004


chicobangs is a racist? Who knew.

So, David Dark, how do you respond to what appears to be a fact that at least two of the people who the SBVFT claims as supporters and witnesses never signed the letter and apparently disagree with its premise?

Assuming it even turns out to be true, I'd simply correct the mistake by taking the two names off. The letter will still have two hundred and ninety-eight signatures, which I don't see as any less effective than a letter with three hundred signatures.
posted by David Dark at 12:46 PM on September 1, 2004


In general we need to disabuse ourselves of the notion that reality and truth have any bearing on politics. Its like the golden rule, "he who has the gold rules." In this case it is "he who has the media rules." Doesn't matter a whit what either candidate has or has not done, what they say or do not say, it matters how the media frames and spins it.

With how much play the SBVFT story gets, and how little scrutiny Bush's own wartime records recieve, I think we can deduce fairly accurately which way the media swings in this country.
posted by jester69 at 12:54 PM on September 1, 2004


I guess it means that 298 Bush supporting Vietnam veterans, most of whom had no contact with Kerry during the war, signed a letter saying they don't like him. Righty-o then.
posted by gwint at 12:54 PM on September 1, 2004


acrid: good link. everybody should read that

also, even if they are falsifying just 2 names out of 300, it still shows the lack of credibility these people have. It may not be slander but it sure sounds like forgery.
posted by destro at 1:01 PM on September 1, 2004


It's a pity, a real friggin' shame, that US politics have come down to this. Digaman hit it right on the head, which is something that probably has my sixth grade civics class teacher from 1967 - an Eisenhower Republican to the bone - turning cartwheels in her grave.

This convention is a spectacular show of crass bad faith. Purple Heart Band-Aid? The Bush twins party-girl gurgling away about how hard it is to be Republican at Yale? A bunch of millionaire geriatrics in funny hats honking and booing the director of a documentary film? A voting machine that has a chip built in to cheat on the count? It's all a bit overwhelming, which is exactly how commissar Rove and his army of Evil Orcs ( "I smell manflesh!") planned it

But it ain't what ya call a democracy. No it just ain't. And I'm not the only US citizen that took a class in Civics in the 6th grade...
posted by zaelic at 1:01 PM on September 1, 2004


Assuming it even turns out to be true, I'd simply correct the mistake by taking the two names off. The letter will still have two hundred and ninety-eight signatures, which I don't see as any less effective than a letter with three hundred signatures.

So... nothing bothers you about the underlying process used to gain "signatures" for this letter, once you've discovered two of them aren't valid. And, in fact, these peopel were contacted, said they didn't want to be involved, and then added?

Might be due to incompetence, might be due to malice. But if you're the kind of person who decides Kerry's testimony about exactly when he was in Cambodia reveals a disturbing lack of integrity, and the kind of person who isn't bothered by the misappropriation of these vets signatures, then you'd be great for a cherry-picking job as a Bush intel appointee.
posted by namespan at 1:10 PM on September 1, 2004


Actually, David, I have enough native blood in me that I get to tell that joke (Lone Ranger fan? No? Here all week, tip yr waitress, try the veal), but admittedly there was no way for you to know that.

Hey y2karl, what are the odds they'd air that interview this weekend? Or is that too partisan-looking timing-wise?

And I refuse to believe that people would actively seek to remain ignorant of the lies they're being told. Which makes me a pollyanna, not a racist.
posted by chicobangs at 1:15 PM on September 1, 2004


OK, let's just for a moment take the ridiculous SBV assertions as truth.

How does that in any way make someone who was given preferential treatment to avoid service (and slacked off even that measly commitment) more heroic than someone who actually went to Vietnam? What the hell is going on in America?

I am simply amazed at the apparent stupidity of a large percentage of the US voting population, simply astounded at the inability of the Democratic Party to counter these attacks, and simply impressed with the ability of the Republicans to take their candidate's weakest point versus their opponent and turn it into a strength. All credit to the Reps, they're running a brilliant (if completely unethical and unfathomable) campaign.
posted by GhostintheMachine at 1:18 PM on September 1, 2004


Assuming it even turns out to be true, I'd simply correct the mistake by taking the two names off. The letter will still have two hundred and ninety-eight signatures, which I don't see as any less effective than a letter with three hundred signatures.

"Despite the fact that Officer Dark shot twenty-seven people during the course of averting the robbery, we feel that we can simply remove the bullets from the girl scouts and the elderly couple- we still see the process of shooting the actual criminal to have been effective."
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 1:23 PM on September 1, 2004


I don't know about the rest of the Google links, but if you misspell "veterens", #2 is very interesting.
Link Whore is my Middle Name.
posted by wendell at 1:26 PM on September 1, 2004


zaelic: "And I'm not the only US citizen that took a class in Civics in the 6th grade..."

That's true, most of us did take that class. Clearly, however, very few of us paid any attention to it.

And thus the aggressive bastard monkeys take control of our lives. Much of MeFi is polluted by the screams and howls of their tribe, in case you hadn't noticed the rising tenor of triumph in their jabbering.
posted by zoogleplex at 1:29 PM on September 1, 2004


Actually, chicobangs, I also have enough native blood in me to make your joke awkwardly inappropriate, but admittedly there was no way for you to know that, either. Cheers.

XQUZYPHYR, I look forward to the time when you'll begin to make sense again, likely sometime following a generous cooling-off-period after Kerry loses the election. Until then, feel free to make as many inane remarks as your little heart desires.
posted by David Dark at 1:29 PM on September 1, 2004


Isn't the direct implication of the FPP that fraud has been committed by this so-called veterans' group? And who commissioned that fraud?

The more I find out about this election the more it looks like 1972 all over again.
posted by clevershark at 1:32 PM on September 1, 2004


Come on David, you must have noticed namespan's question when you picked XQUZYPHYR's comment as the only one to respond to.
So... nothing bothers you about the underlying process used to gain "signatures" for this letter, once you've discovered two of them aren't valid. And, in fact, these peopel were contacted, said they didn't want to be involved, and then added?
I mean, you must have some creative way to rationalize this.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 1:36 PM on September 1, 2004


"also, even if they are falsifying just 2 names out of 300, it still shows the lack of credibility these people have. It may not be slander but it sure sounds like forgery."

Where is all this outrage when people on the left masturbate themselves about F911 and Michael Moore? I mean, if Bush had faked a headline like Moore did they would be besides themselves with anguish... but Mikey gets a free ride.

Sort of makes the "zero tolerance for lying" stance hard to take seriously.

At this point the campaing comes down to "Is Bush more dangerous because he is effective than Kerry is because he is probably spineless and inept?"

It's a toss up.
posted by soulhuntre at 1:50 PM on September 1, 2004


Zoogleplex: I have noticed. I think it's time now for my little drinkie...
posted by zaelic at 1:51 PM on September 1, 2004


"Is Bush more dangerous because he is effective than Kerry is because he is probably spineless and inept?"

No, Bush is more dangerous because he is inept and deluded.
posted by clevershark at 1:51 PM on September 1, 2004


David, it's a very skilled practice to feign superiorty while ducking a question by pretending to be stupid. My congrats.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 2:11 PM on September 1, 2004


Where is all this outrage when people on the left masturbate themselves about F911 and Michael Moore? I mean, if Bush had faked a headline like Moore did they would be besides themselves with anguish... but Mikey gets a free ride.

I can't speak for all the Unified Monolithic Left or anything, but to my mind the big difference is that Michael Moore is an independent documentary filmmaker, whereas Bush is the President of the United States. I'd also expect the American people to hold Bush to a higher ethical standard than, say, Jerry Bruckheimer. They don't, as it turns out, but in theory the deceits of the elected leader of a democratic nation's government are more newsworthy than those of a private citizen who makes polemical non-fiction films.
posted by gompa at 2:12 PM on September 1, 2004


I mean, if Bush had faked a headline like Moore did they would be besides themselves with anguish... but Mikey gets a free ride.

I suspect most people aren't even aware of it. I wasn't. But you're right, it's a stupid, disingenuous thing to do which detracted from the point he was trying to make.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 2:17 PM on September 1, 2004


Yeah, the zero tolerance for lies is not gonna be taken seriously by either side, but you gotta have some scale here.

Moore possibly enlarged the headline. A bit sleazy no doubt, but I don't think anything is misrepresented.

These guys are forging people's signatures after they asked not to be included. Something that is out and out false.
posted by destro at 2:23 PM on September 1, 2004


Also, for what it's worth, I don't see Michael Moore getting a free ride about anything. The only power he has comes from people making him out into some kind of demon, over and over again.
posted by chicobangs at 2:31 PM on September 1, 2004


Moore possibly enlarged the headline. A bit sleazy no doubt, but I don't think anything is misrepresented.

It wasn't the headline of an article, it was a letter to the editor. I think soulhuntre's point is valid, whether or not it stoops to the level of the Swift Boat smear campaign.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 2:44 PM on September 1, 2004


Faze, either this is performance art or you are the biggest idiot on the Internet.

David Dark, do you really think it's okay to forge testimonials? Do you not see the incredible hypocrisy in forging testimonials that cast doubt on someone else's integrity?

I actually think that this stuff is the best ammunition Kerry has. The American populace doesn't like to look like they've been lied to (most of us don't mind being lied to, as long as we don't get busted and look like an idiot).
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:28 PM on September 1, 2004


Armitage, most newspapers run headlines over each "letter to the editor". Writing the heds for the edlets is one of the worst jobs in copyediting, because so many of the edlets are idiotic. My brother and I joke that you could just set "I hate your stupid newspaper" in type and use it for almost every letter.
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:30 PM on September 1, 2004


Excuse me, but did any of you happen to notice that Bush said we'd win the war on terror(ism), and then said that the war on terror(ism) was unwinnable, and less than 2 days later, recanted cliaming that we can be victorious yet again? His head's spinnin' faster than that kid in the Exorcist, and its more frightening to boot. And you're all steaming about a bunch of guys whipped into a froth by a hired Nixon goon (alright in Arnie's book, I guess), and worse, inadequately compare them to a showman profiteer, in a thread about the President possibly having commited a military crime he got a free ride for some 30 years ago?

Hello!!!! Priorities? Anybody? Bin Laden? Economy? More people impoverished? Exports sucking campared to every President for the last 40 years save Reagan? The World thinks us arrogant suckers? Our military and military contractors are raping children? The President's daughters can't string 12 words together without offending or confusing everybody? We're making deals with Uzbekistan, who's leader likes tea made from the boiled bodies of dissidents? Our most favored trading partner is prepping to economically and industrially crush our lives out? Jobs are flowing overseas, making a greater sucking sound than way-too-costly energy flowing to California while impoverishing the rest of the West? American schoolkids doing with 9.4 billion less than promised while Bush's (apparently) druged-out wacky eyed wife whimpers "No Child Left Behind"? Roe vs Wade being sacrificed by moderate Conservatives, because they're too fucking chickenshit to say anything against about the religious freaks that dictate US policy to the President?

And people pine away in their tragic love affair, waiting desperately for a truth that Nixon helped bury many years ago, the truth that says a noble man will speak the truth, equating nobility and American political principles. We don't have nobles, people. We have those who try and speak the truth, and those who don a mantle of truth only to get elected. We have those who do, and those who talk a good do (while cowering behind the pet goat). Priorities, indeed.
posted by Wulfgar! at 3:44 PM on September 1, 2004


Okay, I've found the flaw with tabbed browsing. This thread and the one up above by XQUZYPHER just kind of became one giant mess of 30 year old gangrene, signifying very little, but having a great deal to do with how the "enlightened" American public will choose their next Preznit.

Weird.
posted by Wulfgar! at 3:55 PM on September 1, 2004


I think soulhuntre's point is valid, whether or not it stoops to the level of the Swift Boat smear campaign.

My point exactly. Yes, it's sleazy to change the font size on the headline, and it takes away some of the impact to know that it was a headline for a letter to the editor, but the essence of what he was saying is still true - that there were articles in newspapers across the country stating that Gore won the election after the recount.

Compare this with falsifying signatures and all of the other out-and-out lies these Swift boat guys have put across. Their accusations have been disputed by their own actions and by others who were there to the point at which everybody can recognize the degree of dishonesty these guys are working with.

It would be nice to have a campaign about actual issues, but since that's not gonna happen, at least we can try to be a bit more accurate with the personal attacks.
posted by destro at 4:08 PM on September 1, 2004


I refuse to believe that people would actively seek to remain ignorant of the lies they're being told.

Chico, my friend, just flip on C-SPAN anytime through oh, tomorrow at 11pm.

Or go down to 33rd and 8th.
posted by Vidiot at 4:54 PM on September 1, 2004


did any of you happen to notice that Bush said we'd win the war on terror(ism), and then said that the war on terror(ism) was unwinnable, and less than 2 days later, recanted cliaming that we can be victorious yet again?

That's not flip-flopping, because it's not Kerry doing it. So goes Republican logic in 2004.
posted by clevershark at 5:00 PM on September 1, 2004


Hmmm...according to the great sage Mr. William Joel, the president may, in fact be A WOMAN!

She can kill with a smile, she can wound with her eyes,
She can ruin your faith with her casual lies,
And she only reveals what she wants you to see.
She hides like a child but she's always a woman to me.
She can lead you to love, she can take you or leave you,
She can ask for the truth but she'll never believe you,
And she'll take what you give her as long as it's free,
Yeah she steals like a thief but she's always a woman to me.
Oh, she takes care of herself, she can wait if she wants,
She's ahead of her time.
Oh, and she never gives out and she never gives in,
She just changes her mind.

And she'll promise you more than the garden of Eden
then she'll carelessly cut you and laugh while you're bleeding,
But she brings out the best and the worst you can be.
Blame it all on yourself cause she's always a woman to me.
Oh, she takes care of herself, she can wait if she wants,
She's ahead of her time.
Oh, and she never gives out and she never gives in,
She just changes her mind.
She is frequently kind and she's suddenly cruel,
She can do as she pleases, she's nobody's fool,
But she can't be convicted, she's earned her degree,
And the most she will do is throw shadows at you
But she's always a woman to me.

posted by ColdChef at 5:44 PM on September 1, 2004


The American election would be an amusing spectacle, were it not so horrific.

I assure all you US Americans that the entire world is astounded that your election apparently hinges entirely on trivial bullshit dating back thirty years, rather than the outcomes of the past four years of administration.

A process that should be more akin to 60 Minutes is instead closer to Jerry Springer on a bad day.

Nothing about serious issues like soaring economic problems or insane incarceration rates or giving children and the poor the shaft... no, it's all about "I’m Lovin’ My Cousin!" and "Hellraisin’ Hillbillies!" and stupid shit that MAKES NO FUCKING DIFFERENCE.

You MetaFilter US Americans may be different than the general population, I dunno, but from outside, it looks like a goddamn farce.

Feel free to spread the message: the rest of the world things you're all a bunch of dumb Jerry Springer hicks.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:31 PM on September 1, 2004


Bush's 2004 victory is brought to you by America's corporate media and Diebold electronic voting machines: When you absolute, positively have to steal an election in order to put a liar back into office.

American media is so powerful and so obviously republican that Kerry will never be given the chance to get off the back foot over baseless alegations and discuss the real issues he's been trying to discuss since day one (such as the economy and jobs). When day after day popular media repeats already discredited lies, what can you do? It's like Bush has an infinite public relations budget.

Even so, he's afraid that the majority of Americans might realise that they have the power depose him, so his good friends at Diebold have build an election fraud mode right into the voting equipment.
posted by krisjohn at 6:32 PM on September 1, 2004


Hey y2karl, what are the odds they'd air that interview this weekend?

Well, according to Salon, in George W. Bush's missing year, it will be on next Wednesday:

Allison's account corroborates a Washington Post investigation in February that found no credible witnesses to the service in the Alabama National Guard that Bush maintains he performed, despite a lack of documentary evidence. Asked if she'd ever seen Bush in a uniform, Allison said: "Good lord, no. I had no idea that the National Guard was involved in his life in any way." Allison also confirmed previously published accounts that Bush often showed up in the Blount campaign offices around noon, boasting about how much alcohol he had consumed the night before...

While Kerry earned a Silver Star and a Bronze Star after saving a crewmate's life under fire on the Mekong River in Vietnam, by contrast, the Georgie that Allison knew was a young man whose parents did not allow him to live with the consequences of his own mistakes. His powerful father -- whom the son seemed to both idolize and resent -- was a lifeline for Bush out of predicaments. After Bush graduated from Yale in 1968, his slot in the Texas Air National Guard allowed him to avoid active duty service in Vietnam. The former speaker of the Texas state House, Democrat Ben Barnes, now admits he pulled strings to get Bush his coveted guard slot, and says he's "ashamed" of the deed. "60 Minutes" will air an interview with Barnes next Wednesday, but George H.W. Bush denounced Barnes' claims in an interview aired on CBS. "They keep saying that and it's a lie, a total lie. Nobody's come up with any evidence, and yet it's repeated all the time," the former president said, in what could just as well describe the playbook for the Swift Boat Veterans ads.

Yet, after receiving unusual permission to transfer to the Alabama Guard from Texas, Bush has produced no evidence he showed up for service for anything other than a dental exam. Later, Bush would trade on his father's connections to enter the oil business, and when his ventures failed, trade on more connections to find investors to bail him out. Linda Allison's story fills in the details about a missing chapter in the story of how George Bush Sr.'s friends helped his wastrel son...

posted by y2karl at 8:08 PM on September 1, 2004


[enlarging the headlin] is a stupid, disingenuous thing to do

Dunno if it was intentional or not, but somebody owes Armitage Shanks a shiny new quarter.
posted by soyjoy at 8:13 PM on September 1, 2004


um, and I owe everybody an "e."
posted by soyjoy at 8:14 PM on September 1, 2004


Oh, whatever. In this case, the word fits. It doesn't make the whole film invalid, it just gives his opponents a valid criticism with no obvious gain on his part for doing it.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 8:23 PM on September 1, 2004


Don't listen to the Filter, or the facts. Listen to the words.
posted by homunculus at 11:07 PM on September 1, 2004


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